Is ARMA 2 better than OFP?

[whisper 0]

Well, I just tested, in A2, they go on, but they use cover to do so. They don't continue like there was no threat. I guess that's just different way of handling the situation (and smtg you can surely modify with allowFleeing) between the 2 games, 1 aborting order, the other not... not a big issue

[Second 0]

Well, I just tested, in A2, they go on, but they use cover to do so. They don't continue like there was no threat. I guess that's just different way of handling the situation (and smtg you can surely modify with allowFleeing) between the 2 games, 1 aborting order, the other not... not a big issue

Is running at tank (without AT-weapons) not a big issue?

Quite simply in OFP we had nice and simple AI-behavior where it halted when it faced something which was hostile. When that threat was gone (either got killed or simply moved away) they started to move again.

In ArmA we don't have such behavior by default.

Another thing is pathfinding and trying to evade known threats. Does anyone know how to dig such behavior from ArmA AI and was there such in OFP and how it could be enabled? Yeah i bet no-one knows... Probably wasn't even aware of such behavior.

[whisper 0]

They don't run at tank. They go around it from hide point to hide point.

When the BMP opened up on them, they did evade away (*gasp*) again using cover (like never used in OFP)

Mind you, it doesn't work perfectly, they miss a cover, or don't take elevation into account, but they are not brainless as you want to depict them

OTOH they have a group behavior of mutual cover and move that OFP never had.

OFP and ArmA had easy to beat AI, they were answering to a threat by sending units one by one. Easy kills

just FYI, you're not the only one having knowledge of AI basics

Edited November 6, 2009 by whisper

[froggyluv 2130]

I think whats going on here is were witnessing the evolution of the original AI with vast improvements in most areas, glitches in others.

OFP worked well for it's time and in a game with simplified environments so that the AI had very basic objectives, and followed them with robotic like fidelity and moved like a flock O' birds.

Arma1 attempted more but didn't have the technology behind it so it came across as very disjointed, the AI didn't really seem to be plugged in to the same universe and suffered severe ADD.

Arma2 tightend up many of the problems of Arma with the new Micro-Ai, which greatly enhanced the effectiveness of AI who could now navigate exactly where it needed to be -the problem seems to be it is now processing so much data that it sometimes seems confused as to what takes priority.

[Lord Willy 10]

Opf 2 is very unrealistic the game play sucks the weapons sucks the ai is the worst i have ever seen , the missions sucks cause there cant be more that 60 sodliers in the same missions, the multiplayer is really disgusting , the Campaign is very very short the only thing good that is better of arma II is th graphic for the rest ARMA II is the real Successor of Operation Flashpoint 1

[celery 8]

No Dragon Rising discussion in this thread please.

[Heatseeker 0]

The infantry animations were more fluid compared to ArmA2.

Are you kidding? The animations were retarded, ever seen someone sprint with a weapon facing forward? Walking was like the character model was about to colapse, no leaning, no roll, unable to reload on the go, if you walked with the sights up your head would jump all over the place.. if you selected a rocket launcher you had to move like a crippled man, it was horrible.

Find another excuse.. A2 wins.

[whisper 0]

Well, I find ArmA2 animation transitions really clumsy and they do not feel natural at all. You're more fighting against them than actually controlling your character

[Zipper5 74]

The animations themselves in OFP are not better than ArmA II's. However, the system is. The system makes them much more responsive and fluid in OFP. OFP was therefore much more suitable for smaller PvP modes like TDM and DM. It's not impossible to play them in ArmA II, of course, it was just significantly better playing them in OFP.

[Second 0]

They don't run at tank. They go around it from hide point to hide point.

When the BMP opened up on them, they did evade away (*gasp*) again using cover (like never used in OFP)

Umm sorry can't produce the results with demo... USMC squad (minus AT-guys) is happily moving towards it's waypoint behind hill. Forest on both sides, so there should be alternative approaches. (*gasp*) Me The evil BMP comes charging across hill towards them and halt on top of hill. What do they do??? Well they keep on coming straight towards me. Only thing they do differently is to start move in bounds.

I shoot one of them. At somewhere 200 meters distance. Still nothing.

I'm trying to see anykind evasive behavior... They are 40 meters away from still coming straight towards me.

This scenarion in OFP, with engage at will, they would halt and seek nearest hiding places (AI leader even could move his squad to covering spot in longer distance if close terrain was too open. Like from open to forest) and will not budge as long as they are aware of BMP. Yes i've waited several times 30 minutes or so for them to come at me, while they have decided to lurk in bushes in less than 100 meters away. Many times i've just though that all of them were dead while in reality they were just laying low with only few casualties suffered. I stand up and they shoot me. Some thrilling moments. True, not interesting scenarios for casual gamer.

On evasive behavior when they are aware of hostile before starting to move to next waypoint (meaning that they have to finish they current waypoint first). They fixed in from ArmA back to what it was like in OFP, automatic-like. That is good thing.

About engage: Yeah AI sends his men now to their death in pairs. :D

I'm not saying brainless (yes i like to dramatice it, i'm quilty). They have good things, like some sort MOUT behaviour and better use of cover (lean etc). True could be better as AI always could be.

But yet i'm astonished that this pretty ground breaking AI behavior from OFP is ignored. Ability to keep a$$ down and tightly behind cover. To me discovering that was ground breaker. AI wasn't just headless chicken running around and asking to be shot. I actually could make it opponent which total destruction wasn't simple and/or fast process: useful for probing, harrashment, firesupport, decoy operations, scouting, "i'm too young to die"-attitude of troops. True most gamers probably don't give a flying f*ck about such feature.

Edited November 6, 2009 by Second

[.kju 3240]

OFP easily beats a2 in gameplay.

* Character control

* Sound system

* Cursor and aiming system

* Chopper FM

* Infantry weapon aim

* Micro terrain

* No HDR issues

* Way less LOD issues

* Shadows at distance

* In comparison better graphics on distance vs close (distance details are way more

important while close visuals are only eye candy)

* Very functional, decent looking and non FPS killer vegetation

And several more.

At the same time a2 has some improvements, yet these do not outweight the

missing/broken features by far:

* clutter working for close distance combat

* lean/roll

* JIP

* More objects

* More detailed objects (in terms of usability)

Well maybe some day by mistake the series will improve again in all these areas.

[celery 8]

OFP easily beats a2 in gameplay.

* Cursor and aiming system

How exactly is this better in OFP? When I play OFP all I get is grid-like mouse movement that makes aiming very hard for all the wrong reasons.

[bonko the sane 2]

I cant compare, as my OFP experience was by far the best gaming i've ever had, be it the game, the community and the mods. In Arma2 i simply dont have the lifestyle to start to enjoy the game (ive become a boring old suited fart with a family to support) I really like the little i messed about in the editor. And good work on the JIP, thats the stuff we used to dream about in OFP.

For me those were different times, im not expecting a similar experience....nor do i want it, i mean, playing a CTI for 32 hours in a row is just insane, but fun nonetheless :pet11:

[whisper 0]

OFP easily beats a2 in gameplay.

* Character control

* Sound system

* Cursor and aiming system

* Chopper FM

* Infantry weapon aim

* Micro terrain

* No HDR issues

* Way less LOD issues

* Shadows at distance

* In comparison better graphics on distance vs close (distance details are way more

important while close visuals are only eye candy)

* Very functional, decent looking and non FPS killer vegetation

And several more.

At the same time a2 has some improvements, yet these do not outweight the

missing/broken features by far:

* clutter working for close distance combat

* lean/roll

* JIP

* More objects

* More detailed objects (in terms of usability)

Well maybe some day by mistake the series will improve again in all these areas.

Character control, no doubt about that. OFP hands down

sound system... well... WGL began to reveal the limits, if I remember well

cursor and aiming system : see Celery's comment. The Grid was awefull at times. I don't know which one I prefer now that A2 has customization for this

chopper FM : you're joking, right? gliding UFO, with autopilot-alt permanently engaged, and ultra easy FM. That was OFP. Nothing resembling the real thing. At least today, choppers have some weight

infantry weapon aim ??? need explanations :)

Micro terrain. Nice and never user because of FPS impact

no HDR issues. Very true. Imho one of the biggest bad decision by BI to have put HDR as the core of their engine

way less LOD issues. Talk for yourself ;) I've LOD-switching trees since the beginning. Don't ask me why. Especially visible on WGL :(

shadows at distance. Needs clarification

graphics : I quite like the close details, but seeing the performance issue, yes, we really could go without them

vegetation : true in CWC. No more in Res. Resistance was known for me because of its "killer bushes" and "killer trees" (typical : the forest NW of Nogova)

What else did ArmA bring that everyone always forget? better recoil (vertical only, back to zero recoils were a joke). Penetration, ricochet. More player per servers. Higher unit count (we lost some of it in A2 compared to A2 btw), see "Battlefields" recommendations at the time. Reload on the move. Way more powerfull scripting engine, you gotta admit that (teamswitch, movable gui, fsm, you name it)

[andersson 285]

I think most of kju's list is what I like better in arma2. I love the character control in arma2. I think the heli FM is much improveed and so on.

[Heatseeker 0]

OFP easily beats a2 in gameplay.

* Character control

* Sound system

* Cursor and aiming system

* Chopper FM

* Infantry weapon aim

* Micro terrain

* No HDR issues

* Way less LOD issues

* Shadows at distance

* In comparison better graphics on distance vs close (distance details are way more

important while close visuals are only eye candy)

* Very functional, decent looking and non FPS killer vegetation

And several more.

Well maybe some day by mistake the series will improve again in all these areas.

Thats not wright at all...

*Character control, better in A2 imo.

*Sound system.. better in A2 imo, no comparison.

*Chopper flight model, perhaps more challenging in A2 but less arcadey.

*Infantry weapon aim, dont like 3D sights?

*Micro terrain, better in OFP but heavy on performance so everyone ran low or normal anyway..

*No HDR issues.. but no HDR at all.

*Way less lod issues, true but with the increase of polycount, detail + scene complexity LODS are needed.

*Shadows at a distance, true but ugly shadows that didnt cast over objects and still had a higher fps hit.

*Better vegetation performance but animated trees affected by rotorwash and weather are damn nice.

And you lot are disregarding the massive technical improvements of the new engine.. ground texture layers, much larger worlds, several airport runways, data streaming..

There is so much better that i cant even remember all of it.. i already posted a big list back there.

JIP and SQF + a whole lot of powerfull new commands.

Better netcode + VON.

Lakes, destructible forests.

Better a.i.

A whole bunch of toys (weapons, units, vehicles, etc).

Russians that speak.. russian.

Proper colision detection.

Improved damage system (no more cardboard).

New vehicle classes (wheeled APC's, ATGM mounted car class, VTOL aircraft) + multiple turrets.

Animals..

Improved graphics.

Improved sound engine.

3D ironsights!

Improved inventory interface (compass, map, watch, etc are now objects).

Ability to SWIM!

Move over obstacles.

Ricochets, material penetration, bullet deflection and proper tracers!

Better control settings/keybinding.

OFP is obsolete. If you honestly think its better... play it, i know i cant :D .

[nkenny 1051]

I’m too young to die!

Second touches on another important point. Operation Flashpoints AI might be severely underrated. Not because it was so amazingly brainy, but because it delivered an experience. I’m okay with Operation Flashpoint not having an effective way of organizing fire teams, or perhaps less than brilliant MOUT tactics. Why?

Because the setting of Operation Flashpoints implies a 1980s conscript force that are more interested in going home and listening to the Clash than they are fighting a war! They aren’t the modern day professionals we know from today’s Iraq and Afghanistan.

Arma2 does not give us the tools to really conduct modern combat. Which therefore breaks immersion.

Gamedesign

Operation Flashpoint did not only offer a better planned campaign, operation flashpoint seemed a genuinely better designed GAME.

Kju really says it all and also happens to be one of the most knowledgeable developers to boot.

-k

[Barely-injured 0]

I like the third option "I haven't played both of them" ...aka... " what the hell are you doing here ? " .

I know some can say it is people who got arma 1 only but for some reason I find that hard to believe... I would like to hear from those (currently) 7 people. :D

[Scrub 0]

Character movement: I couldn't sidestep in OFP with irons up. Sights jerked all over the place, and of course there was no lean - approaching most corners was synonymous to suicide. A2 +1

Helo FM: What Whisper said (gliding, auto altitude UFO). A2 requires practice just to not die, and some actual skill to land in hot zones and rooftops.

The rest is what Heatseeker said above ;)

[celery 8]

and of course there was no lean - approaching most corners was synonymous to suicide.

Right rule, man. Right rule.

[arthur666 10]

Haven't played both, but really don't have much interest in OFP: DR because I'm just not tired of Arma2 yet. Definitely as hooked on it as I was the original OFP. And if OA ends up as good as OFP:Resistance was in it's day, I'm really not gonna need another game for a long time.

But hey, maybe OFP: DR could act as a gateway drug to get people hooked on Arma.

Edited November 7, 2009 by arthur666
stupid smileys :+D= :D

[Drew 10]

I was going through a box of my old stuff the other day and I found my "OFP game of the year edition" box. :D I do miss OFP's campaigns, I cant wait for Cold War Rearmed.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Well, i find this discussion "OFP against ArmA2" pointless, and the poll doesn't even include the obvious choice "i like them both". I do like them both, still playing both of them a lot, enjoying them for different reasons.

OFP is still enjoyable to play and moreover easy to mod for those who don't care about very fancy graphics and highly detailed models. Imagination rules OFP modding.

[andersson 285]

Haven't played both, but really don't have much interest in OFP: DR because I'm just not tired of Arma2 yet. Definitely as hooked on it as I was the original OFP. And if OA ends up as good as OFP:Resistance was in it's day, I'm really not gonna need another game for a long time.

But hey, maybe OFP: DR could act as a gateway drug to get people hooked on Arma.

OFP: DR is not part of this comparison. OFP is OFP, not OFP: DR..

[Gryphonheart 10]

The only thing why to like ArmA2 are some user-made islands, however, campaign, storyline and everything else was much better in OFP and Resistance. I even didn't finished ArmA2 campaign as the last mission was completely boring and I couldn't understand why I cannot capture any strongpoints.. Now I'm happy with playing FM10, but later, I would like to return to OFP:R. Too sad I don't have all those addons I used to have on it few years ago..