Is ARMA 2 better than OFP?

[NoRailgunner 0]

Isnt Arma2 a further development of OFP?

Are all Arma2 improvements and bugfixes done eg. is Arma2 now final like OFP 1.96?

Can you really compare the demo of Arma2 with a full release of OFP?

Comparing both games should be imho only done with "vanilla" + final releases otherwise you can get a wrong impression or simply compare apples with oranges. ;)

Some people like apples, some oranges, some like none of these and some like both...should we discuss it?

[AndresCL 10]

ArmA 2.

And to those saying that OFP with WGL its better... well its hard to compare a game with a total conversion mod v/s a not moded one.

In that case it would have to be OFP w/ WGL vs ArmA 2 with ACE2

[Second 0]

ArmA 2.

And to those saying that OFP with WGL its better... well its hard to compare a game with a total conversion mod v/s a not moded one.

In that case it would have to be OFP w/ WGL vs ArmA 2 with ACE2

This logic is bit screwed in sense that i could bring ArmA4 on ring and tell how it wipes a floor with everything everyone knows this far... Atleast when ACE is introduced for it.

Yeah now we just need to wait for x-xx amount of years. [i'm staring at my watch and waiting]

[lwlooz 0]

Arma2 has the better technology (HDR may be badly implemented , but in theory its a step forward)

OFP has the better gameplay , game-design and better addons/mods

OFP is also still a lot more fun.

And while I am at it. ACE != WGL . I will repeat, ACE is not WGL , it never was, nor will it ever be.

A better comparison would be FFUR-SLX or something along those lines.

In my opinion it is highly unlikely someone produces something as well done as OFP with WGL,FDF,Sebnam,VTE,Operation Frenchpoint,BAS,CoC and all the many other good things again.

So we should be glad we had that great game and continue to play its ever so technological advanced sequels , albeit they lack the creativity,ingenuity,gamedesign and great community OFP had.

[celery 8]

Can you really compare the demo of Arma2 with a full release of OFP?

Comparing both games should be imho only done with "vanilla" + final releases otherwise you can get a wrong impression or simply compare apples with oranges. ;)

If anything can be compared, it's OFP and Arma 2 regardless of version. They're not apples and oranges, they're oranges and oranges.

[Zipper5 74]

And while I am at it. ACE != WGL . I will repeat, ACE is not WGL , it never was, nor will it ever be..

Uh, it is. Just not by name. It's by the same dev team, more or less. And serves the same purpose.

[whisper 0]

What is that strange better "gameplay" that OFP seemingly had over A1/A2? oO Do you people mean by that... animations? (because, yes, that's pretty much the only thing OFP had better than A2)

In my opinion it is highly unlikely someone produces something as well done as OFP with WGL,FDF,Sebnam,VTE,Operation Frenchpoint,BAS,CoC and all the many other good things again.

Having been part of OFrP OFP team, let me tell you this : with reaction like yours, YES, it's unlikely. But not because the products by current modders will be worst. Instead, because YOU wait tons more of a A2 mod release than what you got from OFP mod release.

From what information I got, FAFw will release a Leclerc tank that will blow out what we did in our time. But there will still be people that will lecture that "OFP was better".

The "it's new" effect of OFP is imho responsible for 90% of the fond memory we have for the game. It was so new in so many areas that it's just impossible to release sequels that bring so much new things, and players were awaiting to get blown away in the same proportion. Newsflash : we played OFP for years, the "it's new" effect is gone long ago.

Result was disgruntled players blowing issues out of proportion and disregarding advances because they were not big enough to them (or more exactly, they didn't fit 100% their own vision of what OFP sequel should have been, knowing that every single one of us had his own vision completely different, if not incompatible, with other's point of view. That's the bane BI has to put up with for years now, a community that angrily reclaim feature X and its exact opposite at the same time)

After this new shiny things have disappeared, what was OFP to me?

Testing awesome new mod. But never going further with them, just testing

Waiting for hours in lobby that the game start, and praying to not crash or get a net cut.

Waiting a bit more that these 3 guys left in the CTI game started 6 hours ago have the sympathy to bloody finish their game

Alt-F4

That's it, that was my experience of OFP in the later days of playing it. Definitely NOT fun. Because the new things weren't new anymore.

Imho : OFP had animations and AI over ArmA1. ArmA2 fixed AI (mostly for infantry)

ArmA simply made disapear all the annoyances (like I said, JiP, but also script limitations, realism oddities like recoils, etc...) that made the OFP experience un-fun to me once the discovery factor had worn out.

I will not compare with mods, that's... pretty useless. That's comparing users of OFP and users of ArmA2, and blaming BI for that...wtf?

Edited November 5, 2009 by whisper

[Alex72 1]

ARMA2 is da best i da whole wide world.

[dwringer 45]

I would have to say that the improvements to infantry AI, scripting innovations like all the new modules and functions we get, and the new briefing system that all come with ArmA 2 put that game squarely in first place (for me, by a fair margin). I never used any mods with OFP, but let's face it, modding possibilities in ArmA 2 vastly surpass those of OFP, whether or not they are fully realized yet. ArmA 1 is a different matter; it felt very "forced" by the devs IMO, and rather unfinished (certainly unpolished even after myriad mods and patches). ArmA 2 has a lot of polish compared to that, and frankly OFP was a bit crude itself.

A lot of apprehension I had about ArmA and ArmA 2 at first definitely came from poor system performance. Automatic weapons, when a system is bogged down, simply feel clunky, broken, and unreliable. Firing rates are quite variable from what I've seen (even though I am sure this would take on a deeper significance in multiplayer; I only play with the editor, SP). Drop your monitor resolution way down, or get a new video card, and make sure your processor is keeping up with everything, and the game instantly feels a LOT more "fun", "immersive", "polished", etc. It's amazing how those extra frames per second increase the realism factor.

[froggyluv 2136]

What is that strange better "gameplay" that OFP seemingly had over A1/A2? oO Do you people mean by that... animations? (because, yes, that's pretty much the only thing OFP had better than A2)

The "it's new" effect of OFP is imho responsible for 90% of the fond memory we have for the game. It was so new in so many areas that it's just impossible to release sequels that bring so much new things, and players were awaiting to get blown away in the same proportion. Newsflash : we played OFP for years, the "it's new" effect is gone long ago.

Result was disgruntled players blowing issues out of proportion and disregarding advances because they were not big enough to them (or more exactly, they didn't fit 100% their own vision of what OFP sequel should have been, knowing that every single one of us had his own vision completely different, if not incompatible, with other's point of view. That's the bane BI has to put up with for years now, a community that angrily reclaim feature X and its exact opposite at the same time)

...wtf?

Godamned read my mind.

Yeah, OFP was the sh*t in it's headay. Before I knew about forums, I thought I was the only guy in the world totally loving that game. It was the culmination of everything I had always wanted (minus cqb) as a lifelong gamer (late 1970's) and I loved it so much i didn't care what other people were playing.

That said, trying to say that the infantry AI was better in OFP than Arma2 is quasi-delusional. Someone please show me infantry using proper cover in OFP as compared to Arma2 and I'll name my new dog after you. They simply didn't -they may have moved near cover, but never directly behind it. And don't even get me started on the pathfinding -"Can't get there" was a fricken mantra back then. Pathfinding in Arma1 was even worse, as Saharni had a lot of yards/clutter and I nearly suffered multiple strokes due to the infuriating task of keeping my squad together in an urban environment. Arma2, squad stays remarkably cohesive even when I'm dodging in and out of the most cluttered neighborhoods, all the while using bounding overwatch and peeking corners.

Its night and day for me.

[GoOB 0]

ARMA 2 is my clear preference - Though still it is clear to me that the concept of ARMA 2 and indeed, ARMA 2 as a game hasn't developed as much as one would have hoped for. Still, it is a stellar game, brought to us by one of the most, if not the most dedicated team of developers out there.

[Bulldogs 10]

Personally I find Arma 2 a lot better than Flashpoint, but I was more excited playing Flashpoint, mainly because at the time it was something new and amazing.

[nkenny 1057]

I find Operation Flashpoint to be a better designed game albeit not necessarily a better game experience. Arma2 is however what we've got.

Arma2 offers many tremendous improvements compared to Operation Flashpoint... but JIP, blended animations, and really pretty lighting... are all sort of underwhelming. Other games has managed to do this since BEFORE operation flashpoint.

However sneaking in at the edges are cool stuff like 10km view distance. A plethora of military vehicles, for better or worse micro-ai, and much much more. My only regret is that the faults in USER INTERFACE are never improved upon. THAT’S the direction I want to see BIS go.

- k (.02 cents)

[Hitman 10]

Why? :confused:

My screen would explode if I'd start OFP because 8962345678234 frame rate! Pew pew.

Nah, it's just too outdated for me. But I do agree with your points on ArmA2's vehicle control.

-Character handling, shooting that sort of thing.

-MP had some feeling. We were OFP-brothers, man. OFP-brothers.

That pretty much sums it up.

The "it's new" effect of OFP is imho responsible for 90% of the fond memory we have for the game.

I dunno. I did get the "wow this is new" feeling in OFP but that's wasn't the thing for me. For me it was the PVP world of OFP. I never did care about how realistic the AI is in any game, I never play against AI.

Leagues like TCZ, CZL, ECL, TNT were da shite. I could go on and on. :)

[myshaak 0]

My screen would explode if I'd start OFP because 8962345678234 frame rate! Pew pew.

...

I don't know what your PC specs are, but if I max my OFP settings (with a few visual addons like DXDLL and hi-res island textures) I'll get a nice slideshow.. pretty much what I'd get if I would have maxed out ArmA2 ;)

[Hitman 10]

I don't know what your PC specs are, but if I max my OFP settings (with a few visual addons like DXDLL and hi-res island textures) I'll get a nice slideshow.. pretty much what I'd get if I would have maxed out ArmA2 ;)

Really? I'm running a pretty high end computer but that just got me intrested. Gotta give it a go once I get home.

[andersson 285]

I find Operation Flashpoint to be a better designed game albeit not necessarily a better game experience. Arma2 is however what we've got.

Arma2 offers many tremendous improvements compared to Operation Flashpoint... but JIP, blended animations, and really pretty lighting... are all sort of underwhelming. Other games has managed to do this since BEFORE operation flashpoint.

However sneaking in at the edges are cool stuff like 10km view distance. A plethora of military vehicles, for better or worse micro-ai, and much much more. My only regret is that the faults in USER INTERFACE are never improved upon. THAT’S the direction I want to see BIS go.

- k (.02 cents)

Soo.. Because arma2 is like OFP but not better enough, OFP is still best? Strange logic, or do I miss something?

[Alex72 1]

^^ That is what i hear a lot. I dont understand it either. I can agree that when we get older nostalgica can fool us to think something was better thanks to... Well we know why. But i cant understand the "i love that game and now there is a newer one wich is the SAME and BETTER, but i dont like it as much". I mean the newer one should appeal TONS to someone that liked the previous one when the newer is better and in the same style.

"or do i miss something?" <- exactlly.

[hoot 0]

OFP is no way better than Arma2 for me, neither technically-wise nor when it comes to scale. What most people seem to misinterprete is their feelings that they've had back in 2001.

When OFP hit the shelves, we were all stunned by the freedom it has given, the re-playability and all that terrifc stuff that holds us bound to this very community. We have not seen this in a game before, or just in shallow submittals like the Delta Force series for example. So, we sat there continuous swearing about the little glitches but with a lasting Woooooow on our lips. It is like running up a hill. To reach OFP we needed to climb on top of it that hill, a hill of adrenaline and a heck of testosterone.

Then we stayed there for a long time and were glancing down to all the other games that are and were just some kind of corridors with just a little of the features that OFP was or is offering.

We waited and waited and then came ArmA - 'nuff said. We all expected something similar, another hill to climb but we were given just an OFP1.5. Fine for most of us, since ArmA still beats the shit out of most of those competitive games mechanics-wise.

After ArmA, BIS promised us Game2 and we finally got it with Arma2. I don't know if it is really what BIS wished to be Game2 but however, a lot of folks do like it, including myself. But again, the feeling of 2001 is still missing. It is not because I am not frightened in serious situations anymore, or that I'm missing the adrenaline. It is not because of the visual presentation that is not ugly enough for a BIS title, it is because of the freedom. Yes, simple as this. BIS have again opened their sandbox a little more to us with enhancing features or introducing new features to their sandbox VR3. We again expected something like going from zero to one hundred percent like with OFP - a steep slope. But it is like that the sons (modders / mappers / scripters) emancipate themselves from their dads (BIS). BIS has given enough stuff to let the community do a lot of things that would probably ruin any other big-ass company.

I guess the whole thing is about that people want to have back that stunning feeling that they had in 2001 when we were given something entirely new.

To make those people say, yes it's better than OFP for sure, would need BIS to build a game with what you can go on a Star Trek or what turns your PC into a 65-metric-tons-Leopard-steelbeast-transformer.

It's like saying the oldies from the 60's were the best music ever made, but this was also stated for classic music of the 18th century or some kind of movie scores. It's like Ennio Morricone (from his early works) vs Hans Zimmer.

OFP had it's time, but now Arma2 is the 'solid copy'...same same, but different.

Edited November 6, 2009 by Hoot

[Heatseeker 0]

How are the OFP animations better? :confused: They suck compared to A2..

Why A2?

JIP and SQF + a whole lot of powerfull new commands.

Better netcode + VON.

Lakes, destructible forests.

Better a.i.

A whole bunch of toys (weapons, units, vehicles, etc).

Russians that speak.. russian.

Proper colision detection.

Improved damage system (no more cardboard).

New vehicle classes (wheeled APC's, ATGM mounted car class, VTOL aircraft) + multiple turrets.

Animals..

Improved graphics.

Improved sound engine.

3D ironsights!

Improved inventory interface (compass, map, watch, etc are now objects).

Ability to SWIM!

Move over obstacles.

Ricochets, material penetration, bullet deflection and proper tracers!

Better control settings/keybinding.

Just from the top of my head lots of improvements, some are huge and some are small details. I think some of you havent played both games in a while..

Flashpoint was a great game and it still is but compared to A2.. its obsolete, i do miss the tank interiors though..

[Hitman 10]

How are the OFP animations better? :confused: They suck compared to A2..

The infantry animations were more fluid compared to ArmA2, hence the PVP scene which we had.

All in all, you can't really say which one was better. It depends of what your looking for in the game. Some like to play SP all the time against AI, some like coop run&gun style. Some like coop realistic and some like fast paced PVP.

This leads to the everlasting argument of what the games were meant for. We've been there done that so let's not get into that stupid argument again.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Games are meant to be sold & played. ;)

If you arent able to play the game like you want - change the game or your own gaming attitude if you play this game.

OFP is still present but the big times are long gone. Keep your memories and move to new challenges.

[Second 0]

That said, trying to say that the infantry AI was better in OFP than Arma2 is quasi-delusional. Someone please show me infantry using proper cover in OFP as compared to Arma2 and I'll name my new dog after you. They simply didn't -they may have moved near cover, but never directly behind it.

The name is Second. I suggest you do a test. Can't post photos here directly form my harddrive and people wouldn't believe it even then. So try it.

Put squad in edit and also hostile tank. Take away their AT-guy so that it won't open up against tank and you can watch how they perform. Put them in some bushy terrain or forest for optimal performace. Original maps are best because they were designed for the system and also for AI, but resistance is okay even when it's bushes aren't so AI compatible anymore. In fact with original bushes they move inside that bush.

Now give that squad waypoint so that they see that tank at some point of time they are traveling there. Now you can do two things:

1. Give than hold fire engage at will.

2. Give them open fire engage at will and give to someone in squad line like this

{_X disableai "target"} foreach units this

Watch events unfold.

As a hint: They halt dead on, AI leader gives order take cover (you can get it by pressing 0-7) and AI tries to seek best cover in local terrain. Not super fast or 100% reliable but for game that old pretty good. And they will remain there.

Now go to superior ArmA2 and try that. Yeah really try that. :D

As a hint: They don't do a f*ck. Just keep on going. Idiots. Back in ArmA AI leader did give hide order, but overrided it with move order under same moment. Probably .FSM related issue.

Dear dog. Such a name.

LOL funniest or saddest thing is that i genuinely do think that i'm one of those few who knew this. :D

[froggyluv 2136]

@Second - I no longer own OFP so I cannot test what you are proposing but I've played enough OFP in my life to remember that yes -they did try to achieve some sort of concealment like hiding in a bush (hardly cover) or were masked by the Mars-like terrain of the micro-terrain which was introduced after the last patch. I doubt the AI actually understood the micro-terrain, there was just so much of it that there was a good chance some would end up in an -Out of Line of Sight position.

The first thing I did when I bought Arma2 was put myself as a Tank and rush a town filled with enemy squad. I was impressed that when I entered the village, the squad dispersed and had all taken positions behind actual solid-cover *not bushes*. In both games, Ai could go wonky in that AI would leave a safe position mindlessly and put themselves in direct LOS, but thats AI.

Lets face it, the AI in OFP was far easier to defeat. Killing a small town Rambo-style was not much of a feat as they were far more predictable and lacked the micro-ai, that lets it better navigate it's surroundings.

I've now played enough Arma2 to say that the current AI behaves much more like a human oppenent than OFP did. That is, moving directly behind solid structures when under fire, and leaning out, exposing far less of itself than OFP AI ever dreamed of. Considering how much more intricate and immersive the environments now are (minus your belove MT), that is quite an achievement at least to some.

When you get the capability to record videos, please post one showing off your point so I can save my dog further grief :D

Edit- Another thing I am impressed by Arma2's AI is their ability to hunt you down when atop a structure. While I was making/testing my Mucks revenge mission, I laid my player character on the top floor (3rd or 4th) of the Factory/Parking Garge like strucute so that I could watch the battle below for playtesting balance issues. Almost 90% of the time, a spetznatz guy would naviagate his way up to my floor, and shoot me from the stairwell doorway. That sort of thing never happened in OFP nor Arma1 without an Ai mod -you could sit in the top of houses without fear for an eternity...

Edited November 6, 2009 by froggyluv

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

As a hint: They halt dead on, AI leader gives order take cover (you can get it by pressing 0-7) and AI tries to seek best cover in local terrain. Not super fast or 100% reliable but for game that old pretty good. And they will remain there.

Now go to superior ArmA2 and try that. Yeah really try that. :D

As a hint: They don't do a f*ck. Just keep on going. Idiots. Back in ArmA AI leader did give hide order, but overrided it with move order under same moment. Probably .FSM related issue.

Yeah, this is a known bug I reported about your #2 guy going off hold fire by himself, and it's being worked on. In the latest beta build, I haven't experienced it. They all do what they are told unless coming under fire and actually spotted.