civillian children

[killakaze 10]

i was just playing modern warfare 2 :) its really good. There is a scene where you act as a terrorist going through an airport slaughtering hundreds if not more. before the game started their was a warning this game has some bad violence or something do you want to cut some missions out i said no and i said dont ask me again to the second question.

[Herbal Influence 10]

Modern Warfare 2 has been censored for distribution in Germany because of the killings of civilians.

Source (in German only):

http://www.callofduty.de/inhalt/modern-warfare-2-deutsche-version-doch-zensiert

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Modern_Warfare_2

Edited November 11, 2009 by Herbal Influence

[Herbal Influence 10]

And my personal view is that the German government acted correctly doing that.

I personally wouldn't even have fun online with cogamers who have fun or entertainment with shooting peoples/kids/women "in the face".

All school massacre boyz did do a lot of combat videogames.

And I know - myself being an example - that you don't exactly run into the next school doing that if you do a lot of combat videogames.

I am still at my desk. :eek:

(And I know about those papers that prove that First Person Shooters don't make people brutal - but I think it depends on the content.)

So, there is only a few who change videogames into reality.

Many can deal with "cocaine" or/and carrying a gun, some can not.

A few but the damage is a few lifes taken.

And one lifes taken is one too much.

Therefore my personal opinion is to rigidly restrict perversity in videogames and books and movies.

And to allow sexscenses instead.

People sexually restricted and rigid tend to perverse brutality - only my personal thesis.

Edited November 11, 2009 by Herbal Influence

[Archamedes 10]

come on people lets not get silly and cause this topic to get out of control that it gets locked. This is a very good debate

[icewindo 29]

come on people lets not get silly and cause this topic to get out of control that it gets locked. This is a very good debate

Yep. Just don't feed the trolls (Killakaze &friends).

[eble 3]

I wouldn't want to see children in the game.

As mentioned before, the first moment a child addon would be released a youtube vid showing all manner sickness would be posted and we would have the wrath of the worlds media descend on Arma2.

It's attention this game doesn't need.

[killakaze 10]

lol @ Dmarkwick that was your feeble minded outlet obviously

---------- Post added at 02:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:38 PM ----------

you guys must be children or small minded ladymen as far as im concerned.

[W0lle 1052]

Alright then, since certain people can't stop the flaming and bashing I guess it's best we call this discussion done. One page full of flaming, bashing and insulting is enough.

Alright, all pointless spam, bashing and insulting has been removed. Now we continue strictly on-topic. There will be no more spamming, flaming, bashing or insulting (and posts with just a picture or smiley are considered spam as well).

Edited November 13, 2009 by W0lle

[Archamedes 10]

Thanks Wolle Im glad you reopened this again. I think as time goes on people start to get desensertized to gaming violence, for example I just saw the new COD Modern warfare 2 airport mission http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa5d3UhTmAg It's extremely controversial and infinity ward knew that there would be a media outcry about it but they didn't care, they knew that good press/bad press was going to sell bigtime and it did. Guess what the game was still released and even though the graphic level in question is all over youtube Nobody is kicking up a fuss about it. The media are trying to stir things as usual but people are buying and playing the game regardless. I can only assume that if this level was made before 2001 it would be blamed indefinatly for 9/11 simply because it would have been an easy target to pick on. However because controversy, terrorism and all the nasty stuff is all around us all the time, everyone gets used to it.

Edited November 14, 2009 by Archamedes

[Angle 10]

Adult midgets anyone?

[andersson 285]

Thanks Wolle Im glad you reopened this again. I think as time goes on people start to get desensertized to gaming violence, for example I just saw the new COD Modern warfare 2 airport mission http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa5d3UhTmAg It's extremely controversial and infinity ward knew that there would be a media outcry about it but they didn't care, they knew that good press/bad press was going to sell bigtime and it did. Guess what the game was still released and even though the graphic level in question is all over youtube Nobody is kicking up a fuss about it. The media are trying to stir things as usual but people are buying and playing the game regardless. I can only assume that if this level was made before 2001 it would be blamed indefinatly for 9/11 simply because it would have been an easy target to pick on. However because controversy, terrorism and all the nasty stuff is all around us all the time, everyone gets used to it.

And that discussion is about content that is officially in the game. If an addon is made its usercontent, not official BIS content.

[Wire 0]

I would like to throw in my opinion;

Understandably, the inclusion of civilian children will stir contraversy, and definately, some may say that the images of kids strewn bloody all over a village will do abit to damage someones psychque. However, simply because u spawn a child on the map, does not always mean u will kill or mane or brutalise them. So much so that simply spawning women or animals in the game doesnt contribute to slaughtering them when the mission starts as well. People spawn them to add extra emmersion to the game, and provide a more realistic atmosphere for the game.

In many right minded individuals, going around hunting kids in the map isnt on their agenda at all. with spawning children on the map, maybe it might do well to both add emersion, aswell as morally prohibit the reckless bombardment of a village for example, or add a more degreeing tactic to taking into account public opinion and awareness when carrying out an operation, which lets face it, is very real in the world today.

Ontop of that, one must not forget that having an addon like children in the game doesnt mean people MUST download it and PLAY with them. If u do not wish to play them in the game, simply dont include them. But others that wish to spawn a village of civilians, and animals, and old ladies, and younger (deemed 'Hooker' sometimes) women will benefit the chance to include children to the list too.

Just becoz u can download and play with children in the game, doesnt necessarily mean there will be slaughtering of kids by the thousands, or wrongful and disgusting uses of them in game.

It is up to the player to make that decision, as well as deciding how they include their animals and civilians and other atmospheric emersion addons too.

p.s. Im not too sure, but i heard Cod4 2 has the option of not playing that airport map. Again, its up to the player to decide. Just coz u can, DOESNT mean u will.

[eble 3]

I would like to throw in my opinion;

Understandably, the inclusion of civilian children will stir contraversy, and definately, some may say that the images of kids strewn bloody all over a village will do abit to damage someones psychque. However, simply because u spawn a child on the map, does not always mean u will kill or mane or brutalise them. So much so that simply spawning women or animals in the game doesnt contribute to slaughtering them when the mission starts as well. People spawn them to add extra emmersion to the game, and provide a more realistic atmosphere for the game.

In many right minded individuals, going around hunting kids in the map isnt on their agenda at all. with spawning children on the map, maybe it might do well to both add emersion, aswell as morally prohibit the reckless bombardment of a village for example, or add a more degreeing tactic to taking into account public opinion and awareness when carrying out an operation, which lets face it, is very real in the world today.

Ontop of that, one must not forget that having an addon like children in the game doesnt mean people MUST download it and PLAY with them. If u do not wish to play them in the game, simply dont include them. But others that wish to spawn a village of civilians, and animals, and old ladies, and younger (deemed 'Hooker' sometimes) women will benefit the chance to include children to the list too.

Just becoz u can download and play with children in the game, doesnt necessarily mean there will be slaughtering of kids by the thousands, or wrongful and disgusting uses of them in game.

It is up to the player to make that decision, as well as deciding how they include their animals and civilians and other atmospheric emersion addons too.

p.s. Im not too sure, but i heard Cod4 2 has the option of not playing that airport map. Again, its up to the player to decide. Just coz u can, DOESNT mean u will.

mate your correct, but as with anything, it would only take one person to download the addon and make a 'lolz youtube vid' and just watch what would happen.

I wouldn't be all surprised if the German Government used that as the finally excuse to ban FPS altogether, and once one country has done it in the EU others could.

When arma2 first came out, people made vids of the 'hookers' performing oral sex and being shot so they could look up the skirts? weird what people get off one but it would happen with this addon as well.

[Archamedes 10]

in that case ban all computer games, they are violent, warp peoples minds and turn them into sadistic monsters. Be good law abiding citzens that pay taxes and do as they are told, watch tv and read books that are acceptible by the government. You know films like rambo 4, saw, hostel and books like Africans child soldiers & raped in bosnia.

[[aps]gnat 28]

@Archamedes

See .... now you're just grand-standing with the good old "and where will it end!" and "why would they stop there" chant & scare tactics.

Used by all who don't like a little change ....

eg. Gun control. Australia bit the bullet and clamped down on unnessisary gun ownership after a truely horrible incident in Tasmania many years ago.

MANY people resented the controls at the time (me included), but proof is here now. Gun related mass murders of any scale are thankfully rare or non-existant.

@Southy

Yes, the "unwanted spotlight" is one concern, but I still say that if you play the hypothetical "Road Rage - Little Person Road-Kill Mania" ArmA mission 1 too many times, you'll be that 1 second slower in real life at hitting the brake the day a kid steps out in front of you as you're driving down the road.

Desensitization is slow and insidious. We don't realise until its too obvious, and too late.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/07/060727162108.htm

[Archamedes 10]

Gnat;1489933'

Desensitization is slow and insidious. We don't realise until its too obvious' date=' and too late.

[url']http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/07/060727162108.htm[/url]

Definatly not a recent study, Check the games they where tested on. Naturally violent video games, can invoke violent behaviour just as films do, but we live in a free world where this is our entertainment. And playing violent video games makes the player do it in the comfort of their own house on a non existant person, so they dont have to go out and do it physically, just like people who always want to grow up and be a real pilot they get flight simulator x. If anybody who goes out and causes real viloence simply because they play violent video games, then they are usually violent people anyway or not playing with a full deck. I myself and a lot of my friends have played many violent games throughout our lives but never once have iwe decided that we will go out and kerb stomp someone or "Heiruken" A granny doing her shopping. I try to stay away from any kind of confrentation as much as possible

Edited November 15, 2009 by Archamedes

[rocket 9]

Is anyone making a children mod?

No!

Why?

Because its really fucking hard, and almost completely pointless for what most people use ArmA2 for.

So what hell is the point of this topic?

[killakaze 10]

gnat theres alot of reasons why guns should be legal too, but thats a whole different topic all together isnt it.

Edited November 15, 2009 by Killakaze

[Wire 0]

Those research carried out are nothing but biased and flawed. what research can actually show us, and this is a fact, that correlation does not equal causation. Simply becoz a child who was exposed to violent images before, does not mean they act out violently to mimic it after. Yes, some cases it does happen, but its been refuted that the images itself isnt the CAUSE. u neglect addrenaline rushes, brief hypo mental stimuli, etc. Simply the same as u would get if u went for run and saw a car accident that shot ur heart rate up. U dont go running around after crashing cars do u?

Further to this, imagine u and ur mates go and watch a scary movie on halloween. 9 of 10 chances u and ur mates will experience a spike of adrenaline from the images that u have seen right? now answer me this, do u, right after go out with ur mates and mimic the gruesome acts? NO. what we can say for those ppl, those 1 in 100000 chance that do commit acts right after, are either mentally unstable, or socially neglected. Finally, it isnt the game that caused them to cause the acts, but other social normative factors.

People who go and conduct these research evaluations are nothing but biased and already mind set. Ofcourse they want to find the correlation! i mean, could u imagine how much flak they can get if they found none? If they say yes, ppl will take it for the bible and believe anything. what u must say is if this same effect affects u? coz I sure as hell already can give u that answer, u wont.

To round up, yes, one youtube vid can spark a huge problem in the game, but like pornagraphic images or gruesome acts, they are immediately taken off. what was the responce to the hooker units giving a blowjob to soldiers in Arma2 that went up? the replies were humour and 'shits and giggles'. No contraversy and no news reporting anywhere.

I cant say that it wont be the same for children, but i can say that it wouldnt be a huge step off from slaughtering animals and civilians in the game, as they will join the civilian category. Once they do join that category, they will join what other humour envelopes them. I, to this day, havent seen anything more than 3 vids from youtube that I can call disgusting. Unless u ppl sitting and watching them want to call animal liberation and file a law suit for a hick that just shot a cow on the side of the road in Arma2.

Edited November 15, 2009 by Wire

[[aps]gnat 28]

Those research carried out are nothing but biased and flawed.

Oops. Silly me for bringing actual Science to a thread full of experts.

[icewindo 29]

Gnat;1490608']Oops. Silly me for bringing actual Science to a thread full of experts.

Well you just linked to one study. There's tons more' date=' either supporting your point or not. And experts includes both sides of the coin ;) .

I also doubt only 257 test subjects are good enough for a empirical argumentation.

To throw some in:

[url']http://www.tamiu.edu/~cferguson/LYOJPed.pdf[/url]

http://www.rochester.edu/news/show.php?id=3303

[Archamedes 10]

Gnat;1490608']Oops. Silly me for bringing actual Science to a thread full of experts.

Experts or not Unless any of the candidates who took part in that study went out and caused acts of violence due to the games they where made to play, then the study is inconclusive. They said that peoples heart rates went up and they felt the violence had an effect on them when playing, but the fact is it was al down to the situationthat was put before them, and all knew that you don't go out and copy what you have just seen because they have common sense and know that it would have a negative outcome on themselves if they did copy what happened in the games. So again, none of them went out and copied the acts so the test was not proven either way. Its just written in a complicated scientific way to make you think that they are right.

you cannot make a scientific fact about something that isn't proven either way and what you intend to happen actually doesn't. For example "we gave 100 candidates LSD and all of them hullucinated." That is scientific fact

Edited November 16, 2009 by Archamedes

[An Fiach 10]

Sorry Gnat mate, those studies are not accurate at all. That is like implying that if you get aroused by seeing a naked women on the screen just before she is raped or murdered that you will go out and rape or murder women. They are taking physiological responses to stimuli and attributing a correlation between those responses and violent acts whether they are related or not. As with most studies these days, they are not making objective observations or the evidence but rather looking for evidence that supports their beliefs.

[cjph 0]

I've read a lot of these and similar threads and I think BIS got it just right with the civilians included in Arma2, especially the interaction.

Me (and I suspect 99.9% of people reading) would not be in the least bit interested in killing civilians or children in a game, and so I see no problem with them being included. I strive for realism in all aspects, and a friendly/hostile civilian background is another part of reality which combat troops face every day, so I always include a civilian population in small missions I make, with a personal goal to avoid injuring them during operations. However, there may be a small number of people who would use child models wrongly in various ways as discussed, and the resulting potential backlash is not worth it from a commercial viewpoint alone, certainly not in a military themed game and the conflicts in the world today.

So, if you want to add realism use the adult models, but even then there is nothing to stop a MW2 airport type mission being created in Arma, though I have not played it yet (only seen the videos) so I do not know how the two compare in terms of the graphic violence.

Personally I am happy not to have children in games if it stops even one sick minded individual (who may be tipped over the edge by any manner of things) harming anyone. Here in the UK we are not allowed to carry arms for similar reasons - in both cases I could trust myself, but can I trust everyone else ?

[wld427 1705]

I say add the kids..... and give the little heathens the ability to throw rocks at you...... you know, for realism sake.....