Monsters, zombies and so on

[b00ce 160]

Erm, this has been long implemented already in CZM or other mods and will be a feature of the Undead Mod as well. 7 Minutes to inject the antidote after the infection or the human will become a zombie.

He will then use his weapon to kill his former teammates *Kidding* :D

The single player controlled character will simply die,

no multiplayer implementation.

Well in theory couldn't you have it so in multiplayer when the player dies/ becomes infected he re-spawns, or would that be the map maker's job? I'm still a little foggy on the whole scripting vs. map maker deal so bear with my lack of knowledge on the subject. :o

[charon productions 10]

Well in theory couldn't you have it so in multiplayer when the player dies/ becomes infected he re-spawns, or would that be the map maker's job? I'm still a little foggy on the whole scripting vs. map maker deal so bear with my lack of knowledge on the subject. :o

There is simply not going to be a multiplayer mode.

It is purely single player. If anyone believes that this will run without lag with 20+ players against 500 zombies then he is mistaken.

A coop of maybe 4-6 players against a cleverly mission maker scripted number of zombies of around 100-140 at a time might run okay.

Besides, i have an insufficient testing environment at home to reasonably test any multiplayer scripts. This won`t just work as it is in MP.

[LJF 0]

I just got an awesome idea. Why not make the zombie virus have a 60% mortality (or zombality) rate, that way, you could lie about being bitten to your teammates because you might not actually turn ;) Otherwise you just know you're done for and it totally removes the carrier element: the guy who brings the virus back to his base after being bitten but not telling anyone :D

Also, is it possible to make the zombies run faster than the players? Being able to simply out run the things is both boring and ... not very scary. Run, reload, empty magazine, run, reload, empty magazine, repeat until done.

Furthermore, who says you need a lot of zombies? Anyone played Out of Hell? Seen 28 weeks later? Give the players sub-par (ie, non military) weapons like pistols and bolt action rifles and then 10 zombies starts to look a bit scary, besides, there is something very un-scary about walking around with a 200rnd SAW mowing down anything that comes near you, I mean, in the old zombie mod for A1 I took down 200 zombies myself just using a saw, it's not really all that fun even.

A couple (2-5) zombies per player at any time is plenty if they are able to out run you and you have crap weapons, it'd also be pretty scary ;) Especially if the players begin seperated ....

[charon productions 10]

I just got an awesome idea. Why not make the zombie virus have a 60% mortality (or zombality) rate, that way, you could lie about being bitten to your teammates because you might not actually turn ;) Otherwise you just know you're done for and it totally removes the carrier element: the guy who brings the virus back to his base after being bitten but not telling anyone :D

Also, is it possible to make the zombies run faster than the players? Being able to simply out run the things is both boring and ... not very scary. Run, reload, empty magazine, run, reload, empty magazine, repeat until done.

Furthermore, who says you need a lot of zombies? Anyone played Out of Hell? Seen 28 weeks later? Give the players sub-par (ie, non military) weapons like pistols and bolt action rifles and then 10 zombies starts to look a bit scary, besides, there is something very un-scary about walking around with a 200rnd SAW mowing down anything that comes near you, I mean, in the old zombie mod for A1 I took down 200 zombies myself just using a saw, it's not really all that fun even.

A couple (2-5) zombies per player at any time is plenty if they are able to out run you and you have crap weapons, it'd also be pretty scary ;) Especially if the players begin seperated ....

2 Things:

1) There is not going to be any players to tell anything to.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1488923&postcount=302

2) Can you imagine the whining if a zombie always outruns the player?

Remember people are subconsciously looking for inferior opponents when they fight zombies.

[GodOfFoxes 10]

Remember people are subconsciously looking for inferior opponents when they fight zombies.

False.

[nicolasroger 11]

false or not, i don't want them to run faster than me. if you think its too easy, then create a mission with zombies spawning 360 degrees around you and then try to run lol

[irongrip 10]

How O how do you keep everyone happy?!

Zombies that can run at the same speed as the player are absolutely fine. They'll proved a great scare when the mission designer has set up objectives where you're forced into cramped/tight spaces or have limited ammo.

Slow zombies (the kind that are the inferior opponent we ALL, at least once in a while, subconsciously wish to square off against) are also excellent, more so when used in large numbers, populating a key area the player needs to enter for his objective.

Finally, faster-than-the-player-zombies are just what the doctor ordered if you actually want a TERRIFYING CHALLENGE (when it comes to war games, who doesn't)! They don't even need to be any more than 10% faster than the player - that is LOADS! And what is the outcome? You have to THINK! That's right, you can't just sit around and pick off walking corpse after walking corpse. No sir! You need to be running, running, running, FIRE! - scratch one! running, running, scan ahead, scan behind, make sure to remember which ledges were the most easily and quickly accessible for you and not them, make sure you parked the car in the perfect spot and facing the right direction for a fast getaway, etc.

Anybody who is not interested in faster-than-the-player-zombies just doesn't know how to have fun, in my humble opinion.

Or they're chicken.;)

In any case CP, I registered specifically to ask you the following question: Will it be possible to create and play a MP Mission with this addon for two players, or have you somehow locked out MP functionality completely, as you seem to imply?

There is simply not going to be a multiplayer mode... There is not going to be any players to tell anything to.

The reason I ask is because I have a friend with whom I play Arma 2 on a very regular basis, and I've been eagerly following this thread. My friend and I still on occasion tolerate the inferior graphics of ArmA 1 just to play CZM, but if we'll be able to create and play some simple two player missions with your new mod, we'll be utterly thrilled!

I assumed from the following that it might be possible to do this:

A coop of maybe 4-6 players against a cleverly mission maker scripted number of zombies of around 100-140 at a time might run okay

Please advise. Over.

[andersson 285]

Cant you make a light version with only the zombies for MP? Im not that into free zones and antidotes anyway.

All I need to port my old MP missions over are zombies moving towards players and kill them. I used yomies in arma as they filled all my needs. They used a zombie FSM, is it possible to make a FSM like that for arma2?

Any knowledge about that?

[charon productions 10]

@irongrip:

Will it be possible to create and play a MP Mission with this addon for two players, or have you somehow locked out MP functionality completely, as you seem to imply?

It is of course somehow possible and there won`t be no lag except you put 300 zombies on the map, but

to make such a complex scripting structure work in MP, it would need a special MP scripting modification which is no piece of cake.

Due to lack of an arma2-capable network of machines at home, it is sheerly impossible for me to achieve that, because i am not going to waste my time to make changes that i have to wait half an hour for to be able to test on an internet test server. And there will probably be hundreds of test-runs to get this to work.

I have not been able to run 2 instances of Arma2 (which worked in Arma1) on one machine, which could enable an okay test environment. If anyone knows a way how to do exactly that in Arma2, then of course i can write an MP-compatible version.

@andersson:

This mod is designed in hundreds of hours to be cutting edge, going beyond previous zombie mods.

There will be MP, if i find a way to efficiently test it.

[dissaifer 10]

Charon great work I can't wait to see the mod! You're already gone above and beyond.

Don't worry about MP yet, just make sure you are making the SP mod solid and the rest will come.

Super good job.

@coma: those are great models. Are you offering them to Charon for use? obviously a variety of zombies is better then just the one model... if that is possible.

[coma73 0]

@coma: those are great models. Are you offering them to Charon for use? obviously a variety of zombies is better then just the one model... if that is possible.

yeah thats why im posting them here to get feedback from everyone.

[GodOfFoxes 10]

false or not, i don't want them to run faster than me. if you think its too easy, then create a mission with zombies spawning 360 degrees around you and then try to run lol

That's fine, we all have our own desires for this mod, frankly some of us are into Romero zombies, other into Rage virus infected.

Preferably because the advantage of being able to reload and move at the same time, I feel this would be like shooting fish in a barrell if the zombies moved at a speed noticeably slowly than us; Note that if Charon's mod goes as planned and how it is discussed, these zombies would arise from previous infected... Not simply spawning 360 around you... If the mod will be realistic and using the same parts of Arma 2, we should be able to plan where we would expect to engage civilians/zeds within the AO/city just as we plan for attacking an AO in say, domination.

It would be repitious, run, turn around, fire until zeds are danger close, rinse and repeat. Especially within cover and with a team this becomes overly easy... If Charon is not successful with MP then perhaps this may be the only option since the AI isn't the best teammate.

Just bare with me for a moment if we observe how manageable L4D is with infected moving faster than you, having "bosses", etc... even on expert with a decent team you are able to overcome the challenges it presents.

So please, for the sake of a decent challenge rather than some easy mode point and shoot, allow these zombies to move, at the very least, the same speed as human players.

Other than that, thank you Charon for your work, it is really appreciated. I was almost crushed when I read your first couple of posts that such a mod was impossible, but with these recent findings and your work the mod is really blooming and our expectations cannot be made so easily.

Remember that you have a great number of supporters who want to see this release so do not hesitate to call on us for helping you in anything Charon.

Edited November 14, 2009 by GodOfFoxes

[das attorney 858]

It's hard to draw comparisons with L4D though. That game has an effective close combat attack to beat zombies back when they get too close. A2 lacks any form of melee attack, so when the zombies get within biting distance, it's pretty much "Game over"!

Check out the videos released earlier on in the thread - there's some good footage of zombies overrunning the player. At the time, I think Charon hadn't figured out how to make them run continuously but even so, they look frighteningly quick.

I'm sure Charon's on the case with regards to game balance and zombie speeds :)

[GodOfFoxes 10]

It's hard to draw comparisons with L4D though. That game has an effective close combat attack to beat zombies back when they get too close. A2 lacks any form of melee attack, so when the zombies get within biting distance, it's pretty much "Game over"!

Check out the videos released earlier on in the thread - there's some good footage of zombies overrunning the player. At the time, I think Charon hadn't figured out how to make them run continuously but even so, they look frighteningly quick.

I'm sure Charon's on the case with regards to game balance and zombie speeds :)

Yes, like you said it's really hard to compare the two.. However, I'm trying to put together some thoughts as to how easily one would be able to engage these targets.

As you had said, L4D is really more focused on CQB... you really can't put kilometers between you and your opponent like you can in Arma. Also, the range of weapons is far different, in L4D the most frequent thing you are doing is reloading, and in that time if the only circumstance where a melee action is really required. But compare the maximum ammo expenditure... there is no M249 SAW in L4D, which seems like would be just simple to have one or two SAW gunners, as military usually would and proceed to mow them down. Having a fireteam of say even 6 would allow for 60 extra rounds to expend rather than 4 team members with 30 rnd clips, less chance of being overrun during a reload.

This is just a discussion, of course, and its way too early to say... But keep in mind of the limitations Charon is speaking about the maximum zombies 100-300, if you have 9 other AI members... that's 10 people, shooting 30 rounds (this is without something like an MG). 300 bullets right there within 1 clip for everyone in the fireteam.

[Scrub 0]

Understanding how they attack, and migrate will help survivors form tactics.. I don't think it's in cities alone that you'll find them. Resistance would be able to create ambushes. Whether or not these have sufficient stopping power for a horde is something that would have to be found experimentally - which, in this situation, is of 'limited opportunities for failure'. lol

[GodOfFoxes 10]

Understanding how they attack, and migrate will help survivors form tactics.. I don't think it's in cities alone that you'll find them. Resistance would be able to create ambushes. Whether or not these have sufficient stopping power for a horde is something that would have to be found experimentally - which, in this situation, is of 'limited opportunities for failure'. lol

That means you are safe when you manage to hide in the forest where there is no infected around. They will preferably go to the cities to search for humans[...] However the Ambient Civilian Module has a few disadvantages concerning the spreading of the virus across the whole map. From what i think it constantly produces new civilians when the first ones are dead and the zombie script only issues the command to search other towns when the town they are in is entirely without humans. It is maybe possible to script a hunting squad script that just send one group out to infect other towns while the others go on hunt the town they are already in. Until now this has not been implemented because it is more scriptology than it already is.

Going based on this, it would seem they would be mostly in cities unless Charon is able to code the latter script he spoke of.

[Psilocybe 3]

The tension of hiding in a forrest would be pretty full on. Im safe...for how long... my vision is limited, are they just behind those trees? Keep moving..

[Gray1107 10]

I'd expect MP is going to key in making this popular, even if it's at a fireteam scale.

Have you considering running a Dedicated Server in a VMWare OS on your machine?

Lastly, kudos to all the work so far, it's shaping up to be great.

[dissaifer 10]

@coma they look excellent!

charon, sweet job. I thought it was actually done when the zombies attacked people. I see you want to make it more than that. I hope there is the ability to de-couple some of the mod, in case people don't want to use that part.

[LJF 0]

How O how do you keep everyone happy?!

Zombies that can run at the same speed as the player are absolutely fine. They'll proved a great scare when the mission designer has set up objectives where you're forced into cramped/tight spaces or have limited ammo.

Slow zombies (the kind that are the inferior opponent we ALL, at least once in a while, subconsciously wish to square off against) are also excellent, more so when used in large numbers, populating a key area the player needs to enter for his objective.

Finally, faster-than-the-player-zombies are just what the doctor ordered if you actually want a TERRIFYING CHALLENGE (when it comes to war games, who doesn't)! They don't even need to be any more than 10% faster than the player - that is LOADS! And what is the outcome? You have to THINK! That's right, you can't just sit around and pick off walking corpse after walking corpse. No sir! You need to be running, running, running, FIRE! - scratch one! running, running, scan ahead, scan behind, make sure to remember which ledges were the most easily and quickly accessible for you and not them, make sure you parked the car in the perfect spot and facing the right direction for a fast getaway, etc.

Anybody who is not interested in faster-than-the-player-zombies just doesn't know how to have fun, in my humble opinion.

Or they're chicken.;)

In any case CP, I registered specifically to ask you the following question: Will it be possible to create and play a MP Mission with this addon for two players, or have you somehow locked out MP functionality completely, as you seem to imply?

The reason I ask is because I have a friend with whom I play Arma 2 on a very regular basis, and I've been eagerly following this thread. My friend and I still on occasion tolerate the inferior graphics of ArmA 1 just to play CZM, but if we'll be able to create and play some simple two player missions with your new mod, we'll be utterly thrilled!

I assumed from the following that it might be possible to do this:

Please advise. Over.

My thoughts exactly.

Frankly, I'd play L4D if I wanted to blow off some steam or just randomly shoot things, in ArmA2 I'm looking for a horror experience, and after ArmA1 coming so close, I know that's very possible.

The reason the zombies should run faster than you in my opinion, is it then makes (as you said) thinking important, you can't just run until you get some distance between you (and if the zombies run at the same speed you will ALWAYS be able to escape them, due to the AI), and then shoot them.

And yeah, it is much more scary if you know simply going for a jog is not a way out ...

[Drew 10]

L4D2 in 4.5 hours

[irongrip 10]

I can hardly wait. I'm squirming here CP!

[irongrip 10]

Oh NO!!! THEY got him!

[Psilocybe 3]

Ha ha. Even if they did, we'd get to play the mod in real life with just one shot at it.

[Drew 10]

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Muahahahaha Something I made because I was bored