Dragon Rising has been released

[maturin 12]

The vast majority will damage their rotors/tail booms (as well as their rotor heads and other equipment) if they attempt to fly inverted. There are a few that can however. The Lynx, Apache, Tigre and H-53 are all famed for doing loops and rolls. This is due to the way their rotor heads and blades are constructed.

However, it is also possible to loop and roll ALL helicopters in both dragon rising and ArmA. It is not possible to do the extreme pedal turns at speed (I managed a full 720 spin in the AH-1 last night) as it is in dragon rising.

So whilst both flight dynamics have their downsides, dragon rising is by far the worse.

Yeah, when I tried to do a loop in Arma I lost like 1000 meters of altitude.

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

Ok, I popped over into CM's forums to see what they are doing.....

In the review section, people are saying that "I understand why they are giving it a low score, because of the DIFFICULTY BEING TOO HIGH!!!"....

I read that over again. IT'S TOO HARD FOR THEM!....

Some good things they pointed out, "The medic doesn't come aide you until it's safe to do so!".....

You know, OFP/DR is a good thing, like AOL. Some people should play OFP and use AOL. Keeps it better for the rest of us.

too hard.... give me a break.

[LoLL 10]

OFP 2 and ArmA 2 can't be compared. Can anyone compare OFP 2 with Delita Force Black Hawk Down? I'm sure OFP 2 should own that one i think ;)

[Macser_old 0]

This isn't intended to be provocative in any way.Although

I realise it may be interpreted as such.

When I read the topic title I wrongly assumed it'd be

an unbiased debate or discussion on the pros and cons

of the game.Which I believe was probably the intention.

Unfortunately it seems to be degenerating into a mud slinging

session.Is there a particular reason for this?Why is it becoming

so zealous?

At the end of the day, if the question is whether Codemasters can replicate the success of the original Operation Flashpoint without the help of Bohemia Interactive Studios then the answer is simple. No.

I doubt anyone can replicate that again.

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

This isn't intended to be provocative in any way.Although

I realise it may be interpreted as such.

When I read the topic title I wrongly assumed it'd be

an unbiased debate or discussion on the pros and cons

of the game.Which I believe was probably the intention.

Unfortunately it seems to be degenerating into a mud slinging

session.Is there a particular reason for this?Why is it becoming

so zealous?

I doubt anyone can replicate that again.

No.... it was the final word from a professional review. Sorry should have put spoiler on it.

[Murklor 10]

OFP 2 and ArmA 2 can't be compared. Can anyone compare OFP 2 with Delita Force Black Hawk Down? I'm sure OFP 2 should own that one i think ;)

Yeah it should own that. Especially when you're comparing with a game almost as old as original OFP.

[Madus_Maximus 0]

This isn't intended to be provocative in any way.Although

I realise it may be interpreted as such.

When I read the topic title I wrongly assumed it'd be

an unbiased debate or discussion on the pros and cons

of the game.Which I believe was probably the intention.

Unfortunately it seems to be degenerating into a mud slinging

session.Is there a particular reason for this?Why is it becoming

so zealous?

I doubt anyone can replicate that again.

Most of what I've read seems rather calm and constructive. There's the odd user from both sides of the fence getting a little aggressive or angry but for the most part it's been a nice debate.

If you go to the "other" forum that may not quite be the case, but here it's largely calm and collected.

I've not played DR, nor do I really intend to (as in I'm not going to go out of my way to do it), but I've seen many users experiences, live streams of the game and user made videos and they - for the most part - don't tally with what CM were saying it would be.

As others have said, for a console game, this is quite a big deal, there's a severe lack of anything truely tactical out there for them, but looking at how they've implemented some aspects and how others just don't seem to erm... work, it's a bit of a let down even in that market.

As with all complex games, milage may vary, and I'm not nessecarily baliming the developers entirely for the way it's turned out (actual technical aspects, like the bugs). A lot will have been deadlines, lack of resources, poor quality control and miscommunication with testers. Most develoeprs actually ignore the majority of feedback from testers you know. All these problems could have and most likely were reported to them, but for one reason or another they were not fixed. Either because of deadlines or lack of resources as said above, or sheer lazyness.

Codemasters have a reputation of overpromising and under delivering with their games, especially on the PC side of things. Their reputation for support is also pretty dire (or should I say, lack of it). BIS on the other hand are very good at listening to the communities issues and then fixing them. It may take a while, but these things take time, and eventually most issues are sorted.

As it is, DR hasn't lived up to the name or the hype that both the fans and the develoeprs have put around it. This isn't all that uncommon for games, but the simple fact they've back peddled so much in what they said it would be is testiment to the PR machine getting in gear way before the development team do.

BIS seem to have a different approach. We hate them for it, but it's also one reason we love them too. They get on with things, they're quiet, we hear nothing, then all of a sudden bam, we get hit with a bunch of news on the things they've actually got working and screenshots and videos of ACTUAL gameplay, even if it's looking "ugly" and "stutters", because they release footage from NORMAL machines, that many of us will have (spec wise). They don't candy coat their material by shopping it up or adding things in After Effects to trick us into thinking it'll look better than it really does.

All games are buggy, some more than others. We know as BIS fans that their games are often more buggy than most, but unlike most, they're also so far beyond them in scope and complexity. The way DR turned out is testiment to BIS in my opinion because it shows just how hard it is to pull of anything even a fraction of the complexity and scope, and looking at the bugs DR has dispite being a very watered down (in comparison) game it shows that what we have in the form of ArmA 2 is far better than we initially thought. We expect a lot, sometimes too much, but this puts into perspective just what we DO have, or what we CAN have if the community does its part and bands together to make this excellent foundation into something greater than how it is "out of the box", just like OFP 1 was.

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

No.... it was the final word from a professional review. Sorry should have put spoiler on it.

It pretty much started months ago when OFP/DR was starting to be promoted by CM. CM and BIS developed the original OFP, then split.

BIS did Arma then followed up with Arma2. OFP/DR was totally done by codemasters. So the community in general sort of polarized manly due to the over the top claims of Codemaster promotion and marketing team.

For months we've seen video's of "in game" footage that was debunked as pre-rendered scenes based on the totally feeble end product that came out. The graphics, gameplay, depth, realism, control, flightmodels.... pretty much everything was a hoax that apparently was cooked up by the marketing side of CM. As Arma2 was getting closer and closer to launch, the community became more and more polarized and the marketing of OFP/DR and "leaked" material kept coming out. When A2 did launch, there were the regular launch bugs, and the community that was so pro OFP/DR kind of went venomous. Battle lines were drawn with the BIS die-hards on one side and the OFP/DR hopefuls on the other. The OPFP/DR peeps were comparing an unreleased OFP/DR to a launched Arma2.

When OFP/DR launched, it looked NOTHING like the leaked videos or even their official video's. It was only a shell of what CM promised. So there is a feeling of a abandonment of the PC players from CM....the OFP/DR peeps, were left defending a game they believed to be an Arma2 Killer, but when it launched, it was nothing more than a short, ill conceived product. It can't live up to the over the top hype that was created by CM. Face it.... the Original Operation Flash Point was probably the biggest title that Codemasters had launched in history. So the marketing ran with that, and ended up sticking their foot in their mouths. The OFP/DR people feel betrayed. And Arma2 people seem to have a "rub your face in it."

So it's more of a "I told you so." from the A2 die-hards I feel.

In the end, it's a game. But when you play a game for hours and hours, like many Arma2 people, you get attached, you feel part of the development team when you help build on the building blocks of a game. So they tend to take it fairly personally. Call it elitist well maybe. But when you have a game as involved as Arma2 with subtle nuances to master, and have another company claim for months how it will trump Arma2 to have it fall extremely short of their claims. Everybody gets hurt except for the publishers. They are laughing all the way to the bank.

These opinions are mine and mine alone and do not reflect the feelings of any other company, man, woman, child, hamster, large ferret, and a one eyed marsupial.

[datter 0]

I tried OFP2 last night, and I wasn't impressed at all. It is in no way deserving of the name "Operation Flashpoint" and perhaps I'm judging it more harshly because of that fact, but it did nothing for me. I don't think it would be compared with ArmA2 at all if not for the name, it's much more like Ghost Recon and the like.

Side by side I'll choose ArmA2 hands down, or I would if it would run on my 8GB system that is. As it is I think I'll go read a book.

[no use for a name 0]

This isn't intended to be provocative in any way.Although

I realise it may be interpreted as such.

When I read the topic title I wrongly assumed it'd be

an unbiased debate or discussion on the pros and cons

of the game.Which I believe was probably the intention.

Unfortunately it seems to be degenerating into a mud slinging

session.Is there a particular reason for this?Why is it becoming

so zealous?

actually if you go to the PC section in the OFP: DR forums you'll see a lot of people up-in-arms about how they got a shoddy console port...bad graphics, stupid AI, and crappy MP support. I was reading a lot of threads over there and they sound more pissed then anyone here

[Madus_Maximus 0]

I tried OFP2 last night, and I wasn't impressed at all. It is in no way deserving of the name "Operation Flashpoint" and perhaps I'm judging it more harshly because of that fact, but it did nothing for me. I don't think it would be compared with ArmA2 at all if not for the name, it's much more like Ghost Recon and the like.

Side by side I'll choose ArmA2 hands down, or I would if it would run on my 8GB system that is. As it is I think I'll go read a book.

Unrelated to the topic and somewhat random... But maybe try and limit Windows to only boot with 4GB of RAM when you wish to play ArmA 2. As ArmA isn't 64bit, it won't really make use of more anyway and it can actually lower performance as it tries to address RAM it just can't address.

On Topic:

I'd call it more BF2 with bigger maps. Comparing to Ghost Recon is offensive to GR, at least the original ones. Since Adavanced Warfighter maybe, they killed the franchise with that, but that's a different story all together lol.

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

Unrelated to the topic and somewhat random... But maybe try and limit Windows to only boot with 4GB of RAM when you wish to play ArmA 2. As ArmA isn't 64bit, it won't really make use of more anyway and it can actually lower performance as it tries to address RAM it just can't address.

On Topic:

I'd call it more BF2 with bigger maps. Comparing to Ghost Recon is offensive to GR, at least the original ones. Since Adavanced Warfighter maybe, they killed the franchise with that, but that's a different story all together lol.

Only set your command line to -maxmem=2048

tis all ya need.:o

[Madus_Maximus 0]

Luhgnut;1459967']Only set your command line to -maxmem=2048

tis all ya need.:o

Or that lol. Us geeks go for the overly complex work around first lol.

[pj[cz] 2]

Okay, since the server explosion at codemasters probably killed their IT department its not looking like I will be able to do some more DR mp, im gonna share more experience here. This time I will do an after action report of a night "stealth" mission, it is the one with the generator, about a 7th or 8th in the campaign

So ok in the briefing i was told i need to sneak to a fuel depot and blow up their generator while not blowing up the depot itself. Hmm sounds nice. I was given an mp5 and two additional parkinson patients dressed as specops. The mission started as every other id DR with a dum radio chatter: Dagger do you copy? Heres Dagger, read you loud and clear. Are you sure you red me dagger? Yes I am. Ok man you should blow up that depo and all that noise... Useless really as it didnt say anything more than the briefing. So i took off sprinted past many PLA soldiers who apperantly didnt give a flying f*** about those sounds of running and brathing 50meters away from them and managed to get to the first checkpoint. HQ informed me that there is a guy 5 meters from me that i need to kill to get to an observation spot and wait there for the second team which will do some kind of diversion. Took a look into nearby shed and sure enough there is this guy just so luckily facing the opposite direction than im coming from. Would be beliaveble if he wasnt staring directly into a wall. So i aimed my trusty mp5sd and "freed his mind" all over the wall he was so fascinated about. But man did he have some special chinese training (no offence china), as his brain en route to a wall managed somehow to start the alarm and a second later the whole army knew my exact locationa and started to put a lot of laser down range. So i reloaded thinking what i did wrong. Just to be sure i tried the same approach this time. But now it worked he just dropped and no alarm ok. The instant he hit the floor HQ radioed me that i did a godd job and i need to wait for the diversion. OK. I expected some neat fireworks and a lot of scared soldiers with pooped pants running after some cool diversion but after 2 minutes half the defenders of the depo simply started running in every direction away from the depot and i got a message that im supposed to go in. So i did, the whole base was surrounded by a meter tall concrete wall or something which i had bad feeling about because i got stuck few minutes ago on three 10cm large rocks placed so carefully that not even a special operation guy can step over them. Lucky for me as i aproached the wall my character simply slided acros it flying 2 meters in air and safely dropping inside the depo. Sad was that my team was set on follow and they didnt know you can slide wall so they decided its a better way to follow me through the main gate with 2 heavy machinegun nests on each side. I watched their agony of being hit several time by a large machinegun, setting of he alarm (Grrrrrrr) and dying. Ok load again and this time i ordered them to stay there. I got inside alone used a second bullet to get rid of some random guy having his leg stuck into oil tank. And finally got to the generator. That for some reason automatically set of the alarm but i never saw anyone near. I planted c4, runned few meters and blown the gen into pieces. And then i noticed that a PLA jeep was returning fom the nonexistant diversion to save the depo. The jeep was rushing at full speed (somewhere around 30kph) and he was aperantly aware of me as the laser from his machinegun as zipping all over the palce except myself. Wll he was aware of me but definetaly not aware of the concrete fence as he drove directly into it and got vaulted awfully high directly into a fuel tank. The jeep started bouncing all around the depo betwenn pipes and all that stuff you find in an average depot. Cool i thought at first but then i realized, hey i dont remember shooting a red barrel with pinball mode inside, and hey this is not carmageddon, its supposed to be realistic remember? The jeep landed near a small house on the roof. Well technically that kind of jeep doesnt have a roof and since it apperantly doesnt have a colission model for the gun and gunner that poor guy ended stuck in the ground. So are they dead now or what? Na a the gunner started shooting again, but he did not do a lot of damage since he was burried 2 meters deep in concrete, but he managed to do a lot of noise. The driver however disembarked and he did so very cleverly as he appeared in the house next to the jeep. I looked at him and he looked at me, i looked at him..... In the end he made me use my 3rd bullet. In the meantime HQ told me the OP is a succes and i should withdraw. So i did, end of story. This was one of the better missions and i had many lols during it (sadly they were caused by bugs mainly). You actually in the next mission attack the depo with full force and it takes place few hours after this, so that rendered my night stunt kinda pointless but thats another story... Ok off to check if MP is available

[weegee_101 0]

I got this for the PS3, I figured it's a console game so might as well get it for the console. Any vitrol that anyone has for this game is warranted. The AI is shit compared to even the original Operation: Flashpoint, the storyline and dialogue is horrible, and the guns feel like they're bb guns. Calling this game BF2 is insulting to the Battlefield series. The only part I've had a decent amount of fun with yet is the online; but last night after about 3 or 4 games of OFPDR online I finally went and played some SOCOM.

The biggest thing for me is the AI. Its just bad. It feels as if the programmer in charge of the AI didn't even try.

Unrelated to the topic and somewhat random... But maybe try and limit Windows to only boot with 4GB of RAM when you wish to play ArmA 2. As ArmA isn't 64bit, it won't really make use of more anyway and it can actually lower performance as it tries to address RAM it just can't address.

DURRR... I need to read the context more.

Edited October 10, 2009 by weegee_101
Covering up my own ignorance.

[datter 0]

Luhgnut;1459967']Only set your command line to -maxmem=2048

tis all ya need.:o

That is inaccurate I'm afraid, and there's a long thread about the infamous 8GB problem in the trouble shooting forum. Mad Maximus' suggestion works, though it's rare I can be bothered going through the hassle. A decent fix would be best of course.

Back on topic.

[Defunkt 431]

That is inaccurate I'm afraid, and there's a long thread about the infamous 8GB problem in the trouble shooting forum.

Yes, now better known as The Datter Effect.

[pj[cz] 2]

yes, now better known as the datter effect.

rofl:)

[Thunderbird 0]

Definitely tired of the global arrogance here.

The harsh comments concerning OFP 2 make it sound as it is the worst game ever carried out. many of the opinions here are kind of exagerated. Of course, OFP 2 doesn't reach ArmA 2 realism standards, but this is not a reason to kill the thingie as a whole since the game in question is nonethless somehow quite immersive and does at least work properly without the application of x patches.

Regards,

TB

[pj[cz] 2]

Definitely tired of the global arrogance here.

The harsh comments concerning OFP 2 make it sound as it is the worst game ever carried out. many of the opinions here are kind of exagerated. Of course, OFP 2 doesn't reach ArmA 2 realism standards, but this is not a reason to kill the thingie as a whole since the game in question is nonethless somehow quite immersive and does at least work properly without the application of x patches.

Regards,

TB

Umm, okay. have you seen that foto of a CM manager next to a billboard advertising DR as "The most realistic war simulation ever made"? And there is a letter from him to the community peting himself on the back for the game being so good welcomed by the console gamers? First slap to the face delivered. And a game without any cd-key, cheat protection, dedicated server files, barely working controls etc. etc. etc.? Sorry but that IS a bad game. I actually play quite a lot of counterstrike, COD, strategies, rpgs you name it, but i cant recall of a game more broken than this one actually. I own many games from the bargain bin purchased for 5$ that have ten times the value and i paid 50$ to get this one, which im sad about now, because im not gonna be able to get a refund.

-EDIT: the foto i was talking about is in stickied in the DR section of CM forums, just so you know im not making things up

[bangtail 0]

Definitely tired of the global arrogance here.

The harsh comments concerning OFP 2 make it sound as it is the worst game ever carried out. many of the opinions here are kind of exagerated. Of course, OFP 2 doesn't reach ArmA 2 realism standards, but this is not a reason to kill the thingie as a whole since the game in question is nonethless somehow quite immersive and does at least work properly without the application of x patches.

Regards,

TB

I dont think there is any "global arrogance", at least not from the BIS fans.

Considering what was promised and what was actually released, most of the commentary has been pretty fair with regards to DR.

It is an "ok" game that will entertain for a few hours. The insults and game bashing tend to come from a few misguided DR fans who, despite the fact that they claim DR is the second coming, are more interested in frequenting this forum and posting lies about DR while attacking A2 (and it's proponents).

I don't think I've seen any of the regular posters here doing likewise over at the CM forums. The simple reason is that we are happy with A2 despite it's shortcomings.

Eth

[maturin 12]

Definitely tired of the global arrogance here.

The harsh comments concerning OFP 2 make it sound as it is the worst game ever carried out. many of the opinions here are kind of exagerated. Of course, OFP 2 doesn't reach ArmA 2 realism standards, but this is not a reason to kill the thingie as a whole since the game in question is nonethless somehow quite immersive and does at least work properly without the application of x patches.

Regards,

TB

(Most of) the harsh comments concerning OFP 2 make it sound like "OFP 2 doesn't reach ArmA 2 realism standards" and criticize the PR strategies used by CM and the attitudes of reviewers. And they describe specific problems.

So I can only assume you are skimming the thread for the posts that contain only abrasive judgments without anything to back them up, which are never worth reading in isolation no matter whose side they are on. So read the player reviews and action reports, and tell me they are unfairly flaming (aside from a few quips). Or else stop whining.

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

Or that lol. Us geeks go for the overly complex work around first lol.

nah, the overly complex would be to yank out 4 sticks of memory every time you wanted to play.

---------- Post added at 06:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:06 PM ----------

That is inaccurate I'm afraid, and there's a long thread about the infamous 8GB problem in the trouble shooting forum. Mad Maximus' suggestion works, though it's rare I can be bothered going through the hassle. A decent fix would be best of course.

Back on topic.

Where did he say he had 8Gig of RAM? Oh wait, later post does. The one I responded to didn't say anything about the 8Gig.

[Inkompetent 0]

I just think it's plainly put a bad game. Not much good about it. Not on a crusade against it, but I can't see what's 'good' about the game. It is unfinished, unpolished, smack full of bad design decisions, the port to PC is so intentionally bad one is severely punished for not playing it on a 360. I'm actually starting to feel like others with that it's an insult to CoD4 and BF2 to compare the game to them. Just as much as it is an insult for the game to have 'Operation Flashpoint' in its title.

+Good framerates. On the other hand it's not hard to achieve when stripping the game down to 2005-graphics details.

+Nice weapon animations.

+Thermal vision

+Lovely system for artillery support

*Decent campaign. Fairly immersing, yet quite plain.

*Quite okay sounds.

*Once the AI actually does something I guess it is okay.

-Randomly disappearing mouse

-Terrible menus

-No kind of tutorial worth the name.

-Controls are clunky. Heck, they aren't even made for mouse and keyboard. Unless one uses a 360 controller one is by game design made to suffer. And just try to cycle between rifle or grenades on an 'assault' class weapon... Look at Batman: Arkham Asylum. That's how you do a port.

-Graphics are 'meh'.

-The dialogs are annoying.

-The written briefing is 100% unnecessary since they force you to listen to a spoken briefing in the beginning of every mission just to piss one off, making one or the other completely redundant.

-Terrible, nauseous FOV.

-AI is 'disabled' at over 100m unless you shoot first.

-Nights are bright as day.

-Sights on some weapons are terrible. Try to aim with the Mk48 and you see what I mean.

-Vehicles are TERRIBLE. ArmA2 isn't famous for the vehicle controls or physics, but DR, despite Codemaster's expertise in racing/rally games, is even worse than the low standard of ArmA2. Again punished for not using a 360 controller with analogue sticks, and even then tossing a 55 ton tank 20 meters into the air for driving onto a rock is pretty harsh.

-No singleplayer missions aside from the campaign ones

-No dedicated server

-Even fewer multiplayer missions than ArmA2, and the amount of multiplayer content in ArmA2 at launch was abyssmal

-Exploding barrels!

Edited October 10, 2009 by Inkompetent

[Thunderbird 0]

So read the player reviews and action reports, and tell me they are unfairly flaming (aside from a few quips). Or else stop whining.

No way to read them all but you can feel the ongoing global opinion within this topic, far enough to establish a judgment about what's going on.

And I do indeed disagree with some "too partial" opinions around here.

If you don't feel yourself within this category then don't talk for everyone.

Regards,

TB