Bayonet/knife poll

[echo1 0]

No not really. Imagine this.

Your section/fireteam has bounded up to the enemy held house using classic fire and manouvre drills to within spitting distance of the house entrance.

You're going to be the first man in after the grenade goes off so you switch to fully automatic fire.

Grenade goes into the room. BANG!

You then burst into the room like the devil himself and spray anything and everything with automatic fire including any bodies on the floor for good measure, you don't stop untill you empty everything you've got into any likely enemy locations. CLICK!

At that moment with a dry mag around you lie 6 bodies, 3 died to the initial grenade, 2 have died to your automatic gunfire but one is now getting up as eveything has missed him and he still breathes and still carries an AK47 and he's swinging it around to point at you.

Do you...

A. Stop! And go through the whole changing mag routine?

B. Stop! let go of assault rifle and reach for pistol?

C. Hope your oppo can walk through you like a ghost and carry on the fight

while you do A or B or that he can maybe shoot around you without

hitting you?

D. Don't stop and just run the bad guy through the chest with the bayonet

attached to the end of your rifle with a nice twist or two and then

pulled out, rinse and repeat?

E. F. and G etc etc all result in your death in horrible gruesome ways...

It's a proven tool used for hundreds of years too do this job and do it well.

If your going to clear houses/bunkers/trenches in this game and not just ignore or bypass them because it's not your style of fighting, then a tool like a bayonet is going to be extremly beneficial in completing it without dying to that one guy who survived grenade and gunfire.

So why don't we see pics of the SAS/GSG9 etc etc with bayonets sticking out of the end of their guns? To be honest, you're just making a bit of a stick man argument... And besides, when was CQB such a big part of ArmA 2 anyway?

Is there anyone here who has served in the armed forces of any country and used their bayonet in combat on a regular basis? I have no doubt that they are sometimes used, but I just think some folks over-exaggerate their importance.

[TechnoTerrorist303 10]

So why don't we see pics of the SAS...

Ummm think about what you're saying here....

Is there anyone here who has served in the armed forces of any country and used their bayonet in combat on a regular basis? I have no doubt that they are sometimes used, but I just think some folks over-exaggerate their importance.

Read up, I think there's at least two people in this thread that have...

Anyway the issue is not whether special forces use them it's whether the regulars do. To be honest I don't see how you can say "arma2 isn't a cqb sim". It simulates combat, it doesn't force that combat to be ranged at all. If you enter a building containing hostiles you're not going to just not kill them because they're under 3 feet away surely?

Edited August 25, 2009 by TechnoTerrorist303

[Lunatic 10]

Bayonets are used by the military FULL STOP

"ARMA IITM: ULTIMATE MILITARY SIMULATOR" Quote from back of box.

Bayonets are being used on an almost daily basis in Afghanistan, right or wrong I don't care. If this is the ultimate mil sim, then bayonets need to be added PERIOD

[TechnoTerrorist303 10]

Bayonets are being used on an almost daily basis in Afghanistan, right or wrong I don't care. If this is the ultimate mil sim, then bayonets need to be added PERIOD

this

/thread (again)

[Whiskey Tango 10]

So why don't we see pics of the SAS/GSG9 etc etc with bayonets sticking out of the end of their guns? To be honest, you're just making a bit of a stick man argument... And besides, when was CQB such a big part of ArmA 2 anyway?

Is there anyone here who has served in the armed forces of any country and used their bayonet in combat on a regular basis? I have no doubt that they are sometimes used, but I just think some folks over-exaggerate their importance.

You've gotta get away from the whole special forces thing. This is'nt a SF sim it's a milsim and therefore caters to all branches of the military.

SAS, GSG9 and other special forces units don't use tanks or aircraft but there ingame.

If it was a special forces sim then your gaming experience would be 90%+ sitting in an OP and observing the enemy and very little action. This idea that the SAS swan around looking for bad guys to kill is a bit ultimate force and their not likely to be attacking enemy held posistions as part of an advance on the frontline.

Bravo 20 were'nt in the desert to blow up bridges and kill iraqi generals with long range sniper shots or attack iraqi bunkers for vital intel, they were there to put in an OP and watch the main supply route for enemy troop/equipment movements and then later for mobile scud launchers which they would try and call in an airstrike on.

CQB is a part of the game if you use CQB as part of your gaming experience. You may not but many others do and were asking for the tools we need to do it.

With the new expansion coming soon with its big urban map and an emphasis on CQB then those who don't do any sort of upclose combat are going to have to either start using CQB drills in their gaming experience or ignore the big urban map and carry on with longrange firefights and miss out on a great map for fighting over. A2 is a giant sandbox game and has no need to be played one way.

Several people have posted examples of modern usage of the bayonet if you read back the way, from British army in Basra and US marines in Fallujah to royal marines in Afghanistan.

Over exaggeration on their importance. Tell that to the guys clearing compounds in Helmand province.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1403874&postcount=54

To be blunt you and all the other naysayers in this thread have said nothing more than "I don't play that way" or "the game is'nt suited to CQB" as your arguments against it and some uninformed attempts to say that "bayonets are'nt used by the modern military powers."

We'll have this discussion again when everyones played on Op Arrowhead's urban map and see if CQB drills and equipment are needed then when forced to go toe to toe with the Takistani's.

[lt.chris 0]

I personally voted no for the simple reason that there is much more important things at hand with ArmA2 at the moment and this type of feature is consdiered pretty low in the parioty list. However by saying that if everything has been done and this comes along then i'd only imagine this being useful for possibly deep urban envrioments but I seriously cannot see it being used much in ArmA2's current theatre of operations.

[Redders 15]

So why don't we see pics of the SAS/GSG9 etc etc with bayonets sticking out of the end of their guns? To be honest, you're just making a bit of a stick man argument... And besides, when was CQB such a big part of ArmA 2 anyway?

CQB doesn't just mean getting the black kit on and storming embassies. Having a sharp thing on the end of your weapon isn't a good idea when there are people you want to take alive in a building. So said people don't use them.

Fragging a fighting position with HE and then jumping in to kill anyone left alive inside is different, yet it's still battle, at close quarters.

You don't see why we want bayonets in game? Fine. You wouldn't use a bayonet if it was available in game? Also fine. There are shed-loads of things I wouldn't use in game, that are either stock features, or community made, so, I simply don't use them, or even download them.

Just because you wouldn't use it, doesn't mean nobody else will.

[tsb247 0]

It seems to me that bayonettes and knives would be useless in a game like ArmA 2. I have rarely gotten close enough to an enemy to knife them, and such a thing is almost NEVER done in modern combat. The usual engagement range in ArmA game is usually no less than 20 meters or so, so what would be the point of blades? I think both a knife and a bayonette would simply encourage unrealistic behavior.

I personally know only ONE person who has ever had to knife anyone in combat, and the circumstances in which the incident occured are unlikely to occur in the game. All of my other Marine and Army friends have simply shot/grenaded anyone that posed a threat to them.

If you want a game for dramatic bayonette/knife kills, then I think you are in the wrong place.

[-Paladin- 10]

knives in modern Army's are no weapons they are tools.If you dont have ammo to dont start charging with your knif´s.you pull beck and get more.

its a litel stupid to put down your weapon, than pull out your knife to run to your enemy and kill him(your bullets run faster than you).

your use your knives to cut weirs, or for first aid or for hunting for searching mines or building small things like traps maybe a bow? LOL why run to your enemy when you can build a bow and shoot him absolute stealth.

and like somebody said it "no deltasasfastropenija action in ARMA".

knives as tools yes why not

knives as weapons no thanks.

[Redders 15]

We're not on about bayonets in case you run out of rounds. We're not talking about whipping out some mahoosive knife, charging down an infantry platoon across open ground and cutting them up, or wanting knife fights because we've seen too many chad Steven Segal films. We're suggesting bayonets, for stabbing people in the face if need-be, whilst assaulting positions.

Also, in reference to your first point, yes, they are actually weapons in some modern armed forces.

[froggyluv 2130]

Has anyone else actually gone thru the animation list included in Arma2? I've gone thru and played all of them and there are quite a few that are well, pretty funny (dancing moves, shadowboxing, pushups and more), yet they are hardly functional and clearly not relevant to combat. A few CQB moves that actually worked would serve the game far better methinks.

[TechnoTerrorist303 10]

It seems to me that bayonettes and knives would be useless in a game like ArmA 2.

This means your experience does not include situations where they would be useful, nothing more. I have had countless encounters in towns where the enemy has walked round the corner and been within stabbing range. Sadly whilst shooting them in the face the noise from my weapon has drawn other enemies to my position and resulted in massive gangrape death by gunfire. It could have course have been during the patch 1.02 days and due to having my position reported by the guy i'd just killed... However. It is definately my belief that had I had a bayonet then this would not have been an issue and the target would have been dispatched quickly and quietly allowing me to run back to cover and look for the rest of the patrol.

[nomdeplume 0]

I voted no because I don't think it'd be possible to implement in a worthwhile fashion. People already complain about the 'clunky' movement and trying to get into position to use a bayonet effectively would be an exercise in frustration.

If BIS were to add melee weapons/combat, then these threads would be replaced by hundreds of "please make bayonets more powerful / less powerful / easier to use / harder to use" and "omg fix the broken melee AI".

There are situations where it would potentially be useful, and if well implemented then no doubt people would make missions where it would be very useful; but given the problems of implementing it I'd rather just accept it as a game limitation and play accordingly.

Plus, I've run out of keys near WASD that aren't bound to anything, so it'd be a pain to find a convenient keystroke for it. :)

[Lunatic 10]

It seems to me that most of you have never held a bayonet.

Bayonets are more of a psychological weapon that and actual stabbing implement, they alter the mentality of the man who has it fitted to his weapon and scare the crap out of the man being charged by said uber pumped up this is it i'm gonna stab the whole world if you so much as point a stick at me man.

Imagine yourself about to storm a position, you have the bayonet fitted, you throw a frag into the position, it goes off, you get up and charge, you reach the position and start hosing it down on full auto, you get a stoppage, you see an enemy move who is two feet away, what do you do next? Run away to fix your jam, attempt to fix the jam before he brings his weapon to bear or do you ram that pointy bit of metal into his rib cage 3 or 4 time? I know my answer, if your answer is any different from mine don't join the army, or play mil sims and tell me you know better than I do.

[LardThief 10]

Lunatic has hit the nail on the head.

Also if you are playing non-suppressed and you manage to sneak up on some guy with his team within 10m, without a knive or bayonet you are limited to making a very lound bang which will alert his buddies. Not ideal.

[Baff1 0]

I think the stealth factor of bayonets might be somewhat diminished by the hysterical screaming.

Perhaps for the guy worried about not having enough spare keys left it could be activated by screaming at your microphone.

[LardThief 10]

Would be good if they did actually scream when you bayonet them!

[Game__On 10]

I think the stealth factor of bayonets might be somewhat diminished by the hysterical screaming.

Perhaps for the guy worried about not having enough spare keys left it could be activated by screaming at your microphone.

Thank you. I lol'd very hard. :D

[trickster1982 10]

So are these volcbat lot actually soldiers in real life?they all seem to shout the loudest in debates like this.....

[goose4291 11]

Run away to fix your jam,

That'll be pertinant once the new version of ACE comes out, I think we're all in agree on that.

[Smuke 10]

Bayonets, would be such a great addition to ArmA2, FIBUA is not that great at the moment, just walking into rooms like some Superman and blasting everyone on full auto from the hip.

Regarding references I remembering reading Doug beattie's ordinary soldier, and he used his bayonet to finish of a enemy fighter in Afghan.

The "finishing off" with the bayonet would be awesome, say a enemy gets shot in leg, you can just go up to him and finish him off with a whollop in the gut!

[[aps]gnat 28]

.

Suggesting to try for the Weapon Addon makers here;

If weapons can be animated as they seem to in ArmAII, make the very end of the weapon (ie where the bayonet would be) have a GEO LOD section thats animated by the "time" source.

Have the animation as either a rotating block (like a lawn mower blade) or as a thin piston that punches in and out the length of the bayonet.

The Hope: That the rapid GEO LOD animated movement when pushed up against another body will (slowly) damage/hurt a player or AI due to GEO LOD to GEO LOD collisions.

maybe .....

[Pathy 0]

So are these volcbat lot actually soldiers in real life?they all seem to shout the loudest in debates like this.....

Most of the guys posting in this thread from VOLCBAT are either ex or current, from a variety of services, and are basing their posts on their own real life training and experiences. What MP squad they belong to is irrelevant.

Edited August 29, 2009 by Pathy

[Whiskey Tango 10]

So are these volcbat lot actually soldiers in real life?they all seem to shout the loudest in debates like this.....

No! Were all 14 year old schoolgirls with no military experience other than one of the girls 2nd cousin is in the RLC and tells us everything we need to know.

Oh and we all read Andy McFlab books and watch ultimate force with ross kemp (our hero).

And volcbat stands for "virgins of logistic corps bellends and tools."

[Baff1 0]

He pulls a mean pint does Ross.