The need for Afghan mountains

[LeonAdi 10]

Will be nice if will be the result of war with russia, and will bring china against US and NATO. or other original scenario European Union vs US, eurofighter/grippen vs f22, leopard2/chalenger vs abrams 2. or put faction like in strategy game and choose player faction vs computer faction( EU vs US, US vs China, China vs Russia, Russia vs EU, EU vs China)

[Colossus 2]

Answer to your thread title:

ArmA II: Operation Arrowhead announced

EDIT: Whops, read page 3 as the original poster :blush:

Edited September 20, 2009 by colossus

[CarlGustaffa 4]

What movie? I think I'm having a moment of blindness.

[viibez 10]

Don't worry guys, there will be new desert maps, we need a bit of *everything* in A2: jungles, euro, desert... :)

Yeah good point..

P75 make good points 2, but in time A2 (woohoo nickname) will have mega new features :)

[[aps]gnat 28]

Sands

[Ish 11]

If you want to "gun down" insurgents, why don't you go over there ?

[vilas 477]

than i want Tatra mountains

[BigMorgan 11]

What would be ballsy and fun (from a gaming perspective, I like a challenge, and this is just fantasy after all) would be an Afghan-like setting with the campaign played from the insurgent's point of view.

My $0.02.

[Peonza 10]

I'm sick of those boring orange bushes and easter europe autumn landscape , give us desert and mountains !!

[sic-disaster 311]

i have to agree with p75 on this one, im really sick of the cold war scenario on most games, why does Russia always have to be ended up as bad and the American's as victor's. Sometimes this piss's me off realising how ignorant most developers are when it comes to choosing the origin of enemies over and over. For example why don't we ever see any games potraying the Germans in WW2 against the Allies? i would like to see a game where you could for once play as a German and fight against Russians,Americans and Brits. The american scene is too overplayed..

Im not trying to offend anyone here, but if you think about it alot of games are more potrayed at the American Gaming Market and alot of FPS/Military Games include a campaign where it involves playing as a American, so this steams that most games out there are still being too Americanized in my opinion, i would like to see more games having a realistic approach like fighting the Taliban,Chechen Terroists, Muhajadeen or Al Qaeda, not the Chinese Army and not the Russian Army either, and for once play as a different faction,and it does'nt have to be Russian!! but it would make it interesting to play games where the scenario and campaign focuses on a different side/faction/country than America.

Also just a note but when in when has one Russian Developer released an anti-american game? none zip zlich..none, look at the S.T.A.L.K.E.R series, they include Russians there as Bad and Good Guys!!, look at cryotasis.

I was also got sick of hearing playing on public servers back in ArmA 1 and on Teamspeak where people would mistake SLA for Russians and use the term Russians

whenever we did a coop map.

I can mention a few games that take the American Vs Russian approach

World in Conflict,ArmA 2, and COD4 ( Based on a Civil War something though )..

When and when will developers start to realise that the scenario has been way overplayed.

Anyhow i would love to see a desert mod approach for this, map like Avgani was awesome on ArmA 1.. not sure if it works on ArmA 2. Would love to see a desert conversion for all the factions too! and the terroists added<

You might like Red Orchestra: Heroes of Stalignrad.

It will include a singleplayer campaign that allows you to play as the Russians and as the Germans.

[viibez 10]

The F.A.V's look nice out there in the plains :) -- nn those vids look fantastic!

I havent played desert maps since ofp...

Then after all this dust we can make maps with nice big rivers ;)

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

I think I'm not alone when I say that every player likes to simulate what is happening in Afghanistan. Plainly said: gunning down insurgents.

Sure, we can do Afghanistan.

A few dudes walking around, someone hears gunfire and everyone scrambles around. Since the bad guys are several hundred/thousands of meters away, nobody can see them. The firing stops, and everyone goes back to what they were doing. Some time later, the "good guys" spot some bad guys and call for air or fire, then go back to what they were doing.

Afghanistan would be boring as a computer game, outside of the few random and extreme high profile actions.

[MirindoR 10]

looks like you (and me) will get your wish when op arrowhead comes out!

and yeah tbh the setting was BS but im still glad i bought this instead of OFP2

---------- Post added at 11:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 PM ----------

Sure, we can do Afghanistan.

A few dudes walking around, someone hears gunfire and everyone scrambles around. Since the bad guys are several hundred/thousands of meters away, nobody can see them. The firing stops, and everyone goes back to what they were doing. Some time later, the "good guys" spot some bad guys and call for air or fire, then go back to what they were doing.

Afghanistan would be boring as a computer game, outside of the few random and extreme high profile actions.

with this filosophy u can take the crap outta anything. i think you have a very vague idea of what happens in iraq or afghanistan (or somalia back in the 90's), cuz its not like all infantry does is call in airstrikes..

how would an insurgency BlackHawkDown-style mission be boring?

or capturing a city house by house with ied's, militias snipers and civilians all over the place be boring?

or gunning insurgents by night with your flir from an apache?

im really looking forward to OPA, which incidentally, will be based in afghanistan.

Edited October 27, 2009 by MirindoR

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Or, as a real world example, take Operation Anaconda. They DID have air support as the sole replacement for artillery support (iirc, I might mix up with something here). However, weather became a problem... No support many times.

Artillery is a tad too effective. It will level anything with minimal effort. You can't use it to soften up a target, only anhiliate it. Doesn't work like this in real life, as you have to send in troops to kill off the remainders or secure the area. Scripting might help to respawn new enemies etc, but editor placed enemies will just be gone.

Also, there are heavy restrictions placed on the FDC to limit i.e. collateral damage. Give me one Arma2 player adhering to any ROEs of this sort, unless it is enforced in the mission. Most players just want to see the most destruction possible, and they usually get it. Realism? Hell no!

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

looks like you (and me) will get your wish when op arrowhead comes out!

and yeah tbh the setting was BS but im still glad i bought this instead of OFP2

---------- Post added at 11:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 PM ----------

with this filosophy u can take the crap outta anything. i think you have a very vague idea of what happens in iraq or afghanistan (or somalia back in the 90's), cuz its not like all infantry does is call in airstrikes..

how would an insurgency BlackHawkDown-style mission be boring?

or capturing a city house by house with ied's, militias snipers and civilians all over the place be boring?

or gunning insurgents by night with your flir from an apache?

im really looking forward to OPA, which incidentally, will be based in afghanistan.

Since I've been to deployed to both Iraq and Afghanistan, I would say I have more than a "Vague idea".

What you're describing above is atypical for Afghanistan and really not an appropriate response for my post.

[yanquis 10]

"Afghanistan would be boring as a computer game, outside of the few random and extreme high profile actions."

...so one guess as to how to make this a not boring computer game, might be to involve the player in multiple random and extreme high profile actions. that -could- be an angle BIS is intelligent enough to look at. or they -could- have us spend the entire campaign walking around, hearing gunfire, pressing a couple buttons, then walking around some more. but they -probably- wont...and OA WILL kick ass :P

---------- Post added at 01:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:57 PM ----------

Also, there are heavy restrictions placed on the FDC to limit i.e. collateral damage. Give me one Arma2 player adhering to any ROEs of this sort, unless it is enforced in the mission. Most players just want to see the most destruction possible, and they usually get it. Realism? Hell no!

yes, and i hope you agree, arma 2 has the potential to be a simulator (depending on user input), but it IS a game. the official campaign should keep this in mind.

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

"Afghanistan would be boring as a computer game, outside of the few random and extreme high profile actions."

...so one guess as to how to make this a not boring computer game, might be to involve the player in multiple random and extreme high profile actions. that -could- be an angle BIS is intelligent enough to look at. or they -could- have us spend the entire campaign walking around, hearing gunfire, pressing a couple buttons, then walking around some more. but they -probably- wont...and OA WILL kick ass :P

I'm sure the game will be fun, I just don't think a game based entirely in mountains, as per the OP's request (which I quoted) would be fun. If such a game were "realistic", then it would be very boring. Period. The released screens of OA seem to suggest that I am correct and the game is not being based solely in the mountains, which is just fine for me.

I think reading my post and reading the post I quoted would be helpful, that way you people can understand the context and figure out what I'm saying.

[RodeoX 10]

+1 for Afghan map.

[benjellio 10]

Yeh im really up for playing against insurgents it is alot more tense patrolling and being ambushed than doing alot big battles (although they are fun)

[Chechen Commander 10]

The scenery in ARMA2 is not adequate for those who like to recreate scenes from the afghan invasion.

Afghanistan is not a dessert, there are many green areas and lots of mountains, the Himalayas start just there, so there is snow as well. Thus the most of the sceneries on the current islands in Arma 2 are not adequate for the afghan conflict, although there seem to be someone creating a more adequate island.

If someone was interested in re-creating scenes from afghanistan and would like ideas, pictures or videos i would suggest them websites such as liveleak , where you can find endless videos of ambushes in afghan valleys carried out from high mountains, based in IEDs, EFPs and RPGs and heavy machine gun attacks.

From the afghan side, the most of the attacks are convoy ambushes and sudden attack on troops and bases with mortars.

From the NATO side, they shoot like mad from the humvees when they get ambushed and call for air strikes. They occupy small villages until they are attacked and have to leave their bases.

Well there is lots of ideas for people skilled in modding who cannot think of any.

In the meantine, for people who like ambush and guerrilla-type games, just remember that the ambient in arma 2 is very good to develop scenes from the conflict in Caucasus, i.e. Georgia, Dagestan, Ingushetia, Ichkeria (Chechnya), etc, just need some oil extraction platform and some mosques.

Thus, those who like insurgency-type scenery could concentrate in creating adequate missions and addons for these conflicts until there are more adequate sceneries for the Afghan conflict.

Anyway, writting from the montains in Argun, Ichkeria.

Hope we will carry out together some convoy ambushes in ArmA2 :)

Chechen Commander

Edited November 7, 2009 by Chechen Commander

[Chechen Commander 10]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1f3_1221152538

[ebanks129 10]

It is in really early stages but I had just started a map in the region of South Kapisa. The district of Tagab. I'm Currently though having good progress on my other map which is in the Shekhabad Region. It is hard considering I am finding more interest in the Kapisa region.

[AnimalMother92 10]

link

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[irR4tiOn4L 10]

I think I'm not alone when I say that every player likes to simulate what is happening in Afghanistan. Plainly said: gunning down insurgents. I think the whole setup in Europe BIS choose, shows no balls. The whole USSR versus Blue Force is not really applicable anymore.

I hope either BIS makes a perfect Afghan mountain setting with a realistic environment or the community creates one. But I think BIS missed a great oppurtunity here.

Actually i think they are the only ones not doing the whole 'lets mimic the USMC' routine. I just dont see the value in toeing the american ideological line, having millions of players run through virtual Iraqs and Afghanistans fighting small assymetrical battles 'for freedom' (Geopolitics and control of the Middle East). Ok, we still play as the USMC (practically a necessity for sales) but its still not 'America's Army' packed with ideology as a recruitment tool

Without passing judgement on what is happening in the real world, there have been quite a few conflicts in temperate regions and the terrain tends to make them more challenging and interesting scenarios. The latest of these is Georgia, but you can also think Yugoslavia or Chechnya. The last title struck a balance with Sahrani but i for one prefer a move to a more European/Eastern European setting and a more complicated war, rather then yet another assymetric insurgency (often in Arab countries) as portrayed in the newer Call of Dutys', Battlefield 2, Black Hawk Down, Delta Force etcetera etcetera. Weve had enough titles that mimic the current preoccupations of American gaming audiences

If i did have to pick an Afghanistan war to model id have to say it would be the Russian invasion, which would make for infinitely more interesting material then the latest war. However, if i had my pick id generally leave it to modmakers in the first place.

However, i would agree that Afghan mountains are still far more interesting then the desert country of Iraq, which seems to be the unfortunate setting we are going to be getting with Operation Arrowhead. As for assymetric warfare 'showing balls' by 'gunning down (poorly armed) insurgents', it would seem thats what well be getting with Operation Arrowhead, although i have to wonder why it appeals to you so much

Edited November 13, 2009 by irR4tiOn4L

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I don't get it. Why is US vs Russia always being discussed on Arma2, and therefore lacking asymmetrical warfare? We have other factions to fight, equipped with AK47s. Sure, they're not equipped with "muslim clothing", but does clothing matter to simulate a given type of firefight? If you want them to fight "as bad as a Taliban", adjust AI skill.

US vs Russia (or something of similar familiarity and strength) needs to be there, for those that *want* to make symmetrical missions...