Rivers and subterranian features

[Balgorg 10]

I would like to see rivers and streams in arma and arma 2.

It rains allot in game, and there are mountains and hills, all features that are shaped through erosion. Such landcapes should possess streams and rivers in the valleys, even waterfalls. It would add imensely to the realistic terrain, and would aid in navigation.

Also missions could be planned that utilised the river to stealthily sneak into enemy bases. Furthur boats could be used to bring troops inland, and to pick them up again.

Arma had bridges, and estuaries which come inland, resembling rivers a little, but not quite in the way i mean.

Just imagine the sound of a steam ahead of you, while you move through woodland, or the way water can cover up the sound of your movement when moving stealthily.

Bogs and marshes would also be a great adition, i would be fantastic to wade chest deep through a marsh.

Subterranian features would also be fantastic. Bunkers and foxholes are just one form, but caves in limestone districts, and rock shelters.

Something else, cliffs and beach terraces would add hugely to the realism of the coastal areas.

Maybe one day a version with such features will emerge.

And please dont tell me such things arn't possible, a few years ago Boilingpoint demonstrated how to bring rivers into games with large landscapes, and Farcry also gave a worthy example.

[Cellus 10]

Such things aren't possible. I remember reading somewhere they would have done this if they could. This engine isn't those engines.

[Balgorg 10]

Is it something to do with the way water is implimented ? With arma the water within the game world seemed set at a height, to make a river you would have to lower the land. I suppose you would have to make an animated texture, like the water flowing from pipes in old games like halflife 1.

[dmarkwick 261]

Is it something to do with the way water is implimented ? With arma the water within the game world seemed set at a height, to make a river you would have to lower the land. I suppose you would have to make an animated texture, like the water flowing from pipes in old games like halflife 1.

An animated ground texture is indeed about as good as it will get in the current implementation. With appropriate clutter (rocks & vegetation) and an appropriate ambient sound it would be quite effective.

[Helmut_AUT 0]

If you look at Chenarus, you see a lot of places that resemble river beds, complete with bridges over them. I'm not quite sure what the problem was filling them with virtual water, but I think the Team wanted to do it.

[Balgorg 10]

Do any of you remember the old 3D mark performance test with the river, and trees and stuff, it totally hammered my old system at the time.

[frederf 0]

Are you suggesting that because a benchmarking program that was designed to test your system's limits happened to have river in it along with the dozens of other graphical features indicates that rivers are naturally prohibitively performance intensive?

[SeanRamey 10]

quote<Originally posted by Cellus ----Such things aren't possible. I remember reading somewhere they would have done this if they could. This engine isn't those engines. ---->quote

That is when you would start to make it possible. How do you think those other engines got that ability...just woke up one morning and it could do it?

NO they had to make it to where they could do it.

[Killerwatt 0]

If you look at Chenarus, you see a lot of places that resemble river beds, complete with bridges over them. I'm not quite sure what the problem was filling them with virtual water, but I think the Team wanted to do it.

I agree. I am sure they either wanted to do it and came upon a problem or intend to do it sometime down the line.

[max power 21]

Hey yeah. They should just... you know... reprogram the whole 10 years worth of game engine and start over and maybe patch it up when they are done. That's how you get rivers in ArmA 2. :j:

quote<Originally posted by Cellus ----Such things aren't possible. I remember reading somewhere they would have done this if they could. This engine isn't those engines. ---->quote

That is when you would start to make it possible. How do you think those other engines got that ability...just woke up one morning and it could do it?

NO they had to make it to where they could do it.

[Balgorg 10]

Are you suggesting that because a benchmarking program that was designed to test your system's limits happened to have river in it along with the dozens of other graphical features indicates that rivers are naturally prohibitively performance intensive?

no thats no what i am suggesting

[IncipitOmega 10]

I agree,rivers and also bridges are tacticaly very important and they should be implemented,if they couldn't do it till now,they should in some later patches.

[OrLoK 20]

Hello all

well, it's one thing to say hay just patch it in.

But, I don't think things are quite that simple...

For one, perhaps the engine cant support rivers in a reasonable working way, due to appearence or performance hit?

They don't want to implement something that's half finished to have people gripe about it and how it's not 100 percent working/realistic. (yes im expecting the "well this is ingame and not done yet" replies.)

There are many areas of the maps with damns and bridges over "river" type areas, so perhaps the capability is there just not yet implemented.

It's something that would be nice, but I think there are other core areas of the game that need to be addressed first before we get to the added extras.

Now, if the engine CAN handle it, I would also like to see these in, even if the texture ran the wrong way or whatever.

So thumbs up on the idea, but I dont see it happening in the near future.

Rgds

LoK

[Baff1 0]

Ditches and irrigation make for excellent trenches.

[no use for a name 0]

I do wish there was creeks/rivers too; but water is only modeled at 0m altitude (sea level). To make rivers you'd have to make the river-bed at that level, which would be pretty unrealistic (not to mention ugly) because in the mountains there would be huge canyons and drop-offs into an abyss. The only way to 'overcome' this would be to make a whole new map with no ocean, but it's still pretty unrealistic since it would just be the ocean animation and no flowing water.

[CplBlakeman 10]

How are the ponds made then? Are they all at 0 elevation as well? I thought they were higher up.

[nodunit 397]

A "river" is possible by making a unique tiled set of addon pieces that go into the terrain. the problem is ground texture and of course that the river, while it could have an animated water texture moving, would not actually cause any movement to things inside.

[IncipitOmega 10]

Rivers are in ArmA 1,why couldn't they be implemented in ArmA 2....

[oldbear 390]

As a MapMaker myself, I have always research a way to model rivers in game.

River, as a more or less surmountable obstacle, is a valuable tactical item in-game.

In ArmA, you could get water on "zero" level, but this water is "sea water" with to and fro movements as on a beach, not too realistic for an inland river.

I am using this trick on my own "Sbrodjistan" map, a yet publicly not released ArmA map. But I am not too satisfied with this feature, even if fights when crossing a ford are somewhat interesting.

Some map makers as ASworn with a dam in LaSamula island or Nicolas Bell with a pond on Schmalfelden map have shown, it's possible to get still water at a different height. But in close view and in game, this water was a bit unrealistic because it was a texture you can go though without "water effects".

If I remember well, Mandoble has shown once an experiment, where a particles effect can render the feeling of a rivulet or a small waterfall. As always the FX are pulling hard on the computer performances, this effect was activated by a proximity trigger.

In ArmA2 we have an incredible beautiful sea water ... and a lot of still water in lakes, ponds, dams, but no river, probably because river modelling and rendering will pull down our computers performances so much, the game will be not playable.

so I am thinking about a trick in order to model rivers in a future ArmA2 map :

- get a special texture for rivulets/river beds,

- build the river bed in a succession of flat still water areas with more or less natural/more or less hidden waterfalls.

- have some place with waterfalls FX for the fun.

Edited June 29, 2009 by Old Bear

[Helmut_AUT 0]

The 0m Seawater limit is gone in A2, the ponds are now all at different altitude.

[TovarishMimino 10]

speaking of terrains. What about mountains? I mean sure theres plenty of hills in Arma 2, but I mean real mountains, such that cannot be passed by vehicles, and maybe a tunnel or two to go through them?

[Flash Thunder 10]

speaking of terrains. What about mountains? I mean sure theres plenty of hills in Arma 2, but I mean real mountains, such that cannot be passed by vehicles, and maybe a tunnel or two to go through them?

I vote for this and much larger polycounts for the terrain, its too flat.

This alone though would drop performance like mad, but the world will feel more real.

But OA will have some mountain ranges supposedly cannot wait!

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

The ponds are all just pond objects, not seawater...

[rstratton 0]

check this out http://www.mediafire.com/file/dzgdaelvnvm/water test.p3d nobody said the pond objects had to be totally flat

[TovarishMimino 10]

wth is a .p3d?