Head wobble

[sic-disaster 311]

I would like to mention something about the head wobble thing.

Everybody seems to agree that the new headwobble is cool or realistic or whatever, but in my opinion it is not realistic at all.

Your body might make such movements while running, but your brain corrects that. You dont actually see or feel the wobble at all, unless you focus on it ofcourse.

If the brain would not correct this, i think we would see a lot of sea-sicky people puke while running lol :D

The way i see it, it is something purely made for eyecandy.

I could understand that it gets used in first person fighting games like Zeno Clash or Dark Messiah (hands moving back for a powerful punch, camera moving with it to indicate your shoulder and head moving back to gather strength etc), but it shouldnt be used for running.

That said, there are people who would enjoy it as it adds cinematic effect and feel of 'drama', but i would like the option to turn it off because imo it is unrealistic and distracting.

Maybe it could be used while you are near an explosion to indicate your body flinching of the airpressure or something though? Or if you get hit by a bullet like in Ghost Recon 1, where your body made a violent movement in reaction to taking a bullet.

[sidhellfire 0]

Well. It depends on personal running style. When I do the running, my head isn't static as friends, and shaking is quite similar to the one in videos. (well, less in horizontal). It's seems that there's a lot of motion blur, but I cannot find any other way to add that pinch of chaos to the game, which does make battle less "dull", and there is a need to remove that dullness, because You could fight it like a robot which frankly is what counter-strike, americas army and similar titles bring to players.

[sparks50 0]

I hope its possible to disable it in the options. I think its a cool feature, and will definitely use it, but some people may get motion sickness, and therefore be deprived from playing the game.

Edited April 22, 2009 by sparks50

[Deadfast 43]

I remember a German video mentioning the wobble is optional.

[sic-disaster 311]

Well. It depends on personal running style. When I do the running, my head isn't static as friends, and shaking is quite similar to the one in videos. (well, less in horizontal). It's seems that there's a lot of motion blur, but I cannot find any other way to add that pinch of chaos to the game, which does make battle less "dull", and there is a need to remove that dullness, because You could fight it like a robot which frankly is what counter-strike, americas army and similar titles bring to players.

I understand ofcourse. However, not having head wobble in OFP/ArmA never made it anything like those games, so i dont really see why it would make ArmA 2 look like them just for not having the head wobble.

Anyways, no-one's head is static during the running, i am a trainer for survivalruns so i see this a lot and ofcourse i feel that my head isnt static either.

It moves around, wobbles a bit maybe, but your brains compensate for that movement and counter-act it, so you dont really see the wobbling effect, even though your head does make it. That was basically my point.

Not having head wobbling isnt any less realistic then having it, because most people never experience it, thus i dont really see the need for the inclusion of head wobbling.

It does add a nice cinematic effect for sure, but again i do think it should be optional, not only for this reason but as well for people with motion sickness.

But according to Deadfast that is to be the case, so that should be fine :)

[maxter 10]

It's always nice to be able to turn such features off to make as many people happy as possible (unless you have to compromise a lot, but that shouldn't be the case here, just a simple toggle in the options menu should do).

I personally find the wobbling really cool, judging from the videos, and though my head might not be wobbling all that much when I'm running, I think it still simulates the fact the my BODY is indeed moving, which would be difficult to animate in any other way. So yeah, I think it adds a great feeling of non-linear movement and action which I really like so far.

[SaBrE_UK 0]

It's definitely optional.

[sk3pt 0]

I hope it can be controlled (forced) by the server.

[EDIT]

What about head movement inside vehicles ?

Edited April 23, 2009 by sk3pt

[max power 21]

I find that when I'm running with something heavy on my back that I tend to move a lot more than if I'm running with no load what so ever. I also remember hearing that the head movement effects are optional, and I agree with both camps. It is realistic to have the camera move in that manner, and it also is true that the brain stablizes the image so that while you're running, your head doesn't feel like it's wiggling around and if you cock your head to the side, the world does not appear to be on a slant.

[S!fkaIaC 10]

Whatever the outcome is, it has to be server controlled or even server forced.

Else kinda cheating is possible.

[maddogx 13]

Actually, there are several games which include an optional head-movement feature, though it is usually limited to "bobbing up and down". FEAR for example. Obviously, all the hardcore players turned it off in MP because it was a 100% competitive game - but it was still optional. In ArmA2 I myself will gladly leave the head movement on, because I like the immersion factor and I don't usually suffer from motion sickness. To me, an FPS without head movement feels more like a low altitude flight simulator with funny shaped planes.

I say leave it optional, don't enforce it on servers either. ArmA(2) simply isn't that kind of hardcore PvP game where a head-bob setting is valid to fairness. The people who want to play ArmA2 competitively will surely turn it off anyway, everyone else will take their pick and live with it.

If anything, allow the server to enforce a maximum view distance that overrides scripting commands.

[S!fkaIaC 10]

Where is the issue with enforcing?

If hardcore gamers want to enforce some settings at their server to enforce realistic, fair gaming, all others have the chance to use that server or not.

If you for example made an excellent mission using addons like the ACE pack, the score junkies would go with client settings onto the servers making ArmA 2 looking like OFP:

Res = 1024x768

No wind

No grass

no details

...just to collect scores or to win a clan league.

Hence you have to enforce fair conditions. Else you go to a busch while having max settings thinking you are hidden, but for the low settings guy you are easy to spot.

Edited April 23, 2009 by S!fkaIaC

[Placebo 29]

Head wobble is configurable.

[sparks50 0]

Great. I hope it will be enforceable for server owner though.

Edited April 23, 2009 by sparks50

[S!fkaIaC 10]

Head wobble is configurable.

In the sense that I can also enforce head wobble and clients which disable it are dropped with a related message?

[Baff1 0]

This is something I always turn off in games.

Server admins wanting to enforce this are zealous in way which I will never be on mine.

[maddogx 13]

Where is the issue with enforcing?

If hardcore gamers want to enforce some settings at their server to enforce realistic, fair gaming, all others have the chance to use that server or not.

If you for example made an excellent mission using addons like the ACE pack, the score junkies would go with client settings onto the servers making ArmA 2 looking like OFP:

Res = 1024x768

No wind

No grass

no details

...just to collect scores or to win a clan league.

Hence you have to enforce fair conditions. Else you go to a busch while having max settings thinking you are hidden, but for the low settings guy you are easy to spot.

I understand where you're coming from but there needs to be a balance between fairness and accessibility. If you give admins the power to enforce too much then people will be unable to play on certain servers. Those who suffer from motion sickness will not be able to play on forced-head-wobble servers. Also (for example) if admins had the power to enforce texture and model detail for "fairness" then players with slower machines wouldn't be able to play.

I know people who've been unable to play on certain servers because the view distance was fixed to something like 3000, but their machine could only just manage 1200. I personally hate servers that enforce "no grass", because I like playing with grass on.

Like I said before, I don't think disabling head wobble will give players such a massive advantage. Close quarters fighting is usually much slower paced than other games, so disabling head-wobble won't give anyone much of an advantage. This is ArmA after all, not Counterstrike.

[S!fkaIaC 10]

enforce too much then people will be unable to play on certain servers

That is exactly what I want: The one who pays - says!

If I fire up a fun mission I would not enforce to much.

If I fire up a ESL-kinda mission I want that all others which do not agree with my settings simply can not join.

[Maddmatt 1]

If I fire up a ESL-kinda mission I want that all others which do not agree with my settings simply can not join.

And you want people who suffer motion sickness to be unable to join too, how nice of you :j:

Sorry but that is just a ridiculous thing to enforce. It hardly affects fairness. ArmA is the kind of game where you can't shoot accurately while running anyway. Many people will use headbob for some immersion, others will turn if off because it makes them feel sick.

It does not make you more hardcore and hardly makes the game more difficult when you use some headbob.

Have some consideration for those who suffer motion sickness, FFS.

It probably wont affect me so I think I'll be playing with it on. But if some people have it off I'm fine with that, just like floating zone.

[max power 21]

I agree 100% with MaddMatt. If people are competing they will turn it off anyways if it provides some kind of disadvantage. This is not something the server needs to enforce.

[bravo 6 0]

Head wobble is configurable.

I'm glad its configurable, more comfortable with the idea, but i hope its independent from server configurations, what ever option is chosen.

[Kirby 2]

It's WAAAAY over the top in the videos. I can see thousands of "motion sickness" complaints in my mind right now. Even ArmA 1 had them. Glad to see it's configurable.

But bobbing and movment in vehicles should be there, I haven't seen a game that's done realistic movment of view in vehicles moving at a fast speed or on rough terrain properly yet. Would be a nice feature. Give a vehicle more feeling.

[S!fkaIaC 10]

And you want people who suffer motion sickness to be unable to join too, how nice of you

First time I hear that you can get motion sick this way. With viedo goggles I could understand, you would get sick even without head wobbling.

And what is the issue? If the Lobby solution is good, he can stay in the Lobby and ask the admin and all others if it is ok to turn off head wobbling or whatever he wants and then they might agree.

But it is not about kindness, it is about full control. If I am kind and change something is another thing.

It is not kind to use settings which give one an advantage in a mission while all others agreed to do it different.

[celery 8]

First time I hear that you can get motion sick this way. With viedo goggles I could understand, you would get sick even without head wobbling.

And what is the issue? If the Lobby solution is good, he can stay in the Lobby and ask the admin and all others if it is ok to turn off head wobbling or whatever he wants and then they might agree.

But it is not about kindness, it is about full control. If I am kind and change something is another thing.

It is not kind to use settings which give one an advantage in a mission while all others agreed to do it different.

What kind of advantage are we talking about here? Are you certain that you perform significantly worse with head shaking turned on? Then just turn it off. People seriously have problems with some games either because of head bobbing, low field of vision or other strangeness in the 1st person camera. For some reason I got physically sick playing Will Rock for example so it's not an urban legend.

I'd say it's also not very kind to buy a powerful PC, getting a huge advantage in fps over people like me who are faithful to their older computers. I get 5-25 fps in ArmA. We should play this game on consoles with the exact same settings so nobody has an advantage.

[S!fkaIaC 10]

I see where the problem is in our discussion.

We focus to much on the head wobbling (well, it is the topic of thise thread of course).

My point is that settings like VD, some details settings, and maybe head wobbling influencing (sometimes significant) the ability to detect(spot) an enemy in the virtual environment.

And since it is in the nature of the game that it is all about hiding/spotting/reacting first/ cover....it matters if you can enforce some settings.

In my opinion it is harder to spot an enemy while running with wobbling head compared with a steady head.

Hence there is an advantage. And to avoid any trouble about, you simply enforce it rigidly, and that's it.

Same I would do with "enforce minimum resolution" and "minimum details" and most important "shadow".

During a sunny day, a person few 100m away in the shadow of a tree is almost invisible in the black darkness (human eye+brain works like that). If one client disables shadow totally, he is getting a hige advantage.

I'd say it's also not very kind to buy a powerful PC, getting a huge advantage in fps over people like me who are faithful to their older computers. I get 5-25 fps in ArmA. We should play this game on consoles with the exact same settings so nobody has an advantage.

I am not dictator of this world, I was talking about "when I want it at my server" not "enforce it all over the world".

But if I want to enjoy an evening in a way I like to have it, I would like to have it under control the way I like it.

All others can go elsewhere.

On the other hand I accept the "max VD" enforced by some missions to cut the big advantage of high end rigs.

So it should be a both-way street.

Edited April 24, 2009 by S!fkaIaC