Lighting improvements in ArmA2?

[Rexxenexx 0]

I was wondering if their will be any improvements to the terrain lighting in ArmA2? ArmA looks to be a carry-over vertex lighting engine from OFP. In ArmA a BMP will light up the whole ground of a city at night in the direction it is pointing. Is their any new methods that would cutoff the illumination on the terrain behind a building regardless if the terrains poly goes beyond the building? Any new DirectX10 pixel shader methods?

[jackass888 0]

@ Invex Digitex 2007 something like this was said

- better shader for dynamic lightning (Shader 3.0)

- dynamic shadows, really real light

But there is only 1 ss of ArmaII with lights at night and i dont see anything cast a shadow.

http://www.armedassault.com/pic_arma2/ArmA2nightfight.jpg

Hope we will see shadows from all light types someday and a nice feature would be if AI could detect shadows

[kavoven 4]

If you watch the film out of the PC-Games, you'll recognize the showdows falling on (and into! the car when it's driving through the little village in the middle of the film. Those shadows look quite dynamic to me

[jackass888 0]

If you watch the film out of the PC-Games, you'll recognize the showdows falling on (and into! the car when it's driving through the little village in the middle of the film. Those shadows look quite dynamic to me

If this is what they mean under dynamic shadows & lights then im dissapointed.. its just selfshadowing what was already in OFP:Elite

[SaBrE_UK 0]

I'm sure I saw something about multiple light sources and shadows from them. Could be wrong, though.

[smellyjelly 0]

I really hope the lighting is improved. It has a way of making the game look much more technically advanced.

Anyways, here are the biggest issues in Arma:

-Lights don't create shadows or bump mapping.

-The max number of lights often leads to one or two disappearing

-The light was very blocky.

Then there are those cones that come from the headlights or spotlight. If BIS must add them, then they should be "staticy", like it's shining on dust, instead of just a pure white cone.

[Rexxenexx 0]

Here is a photoshop -that image link above- of what I mean.

[-duke- 0]

Am I the only one here who thinks the lighting is pretty good already.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

No, I think so to, at least for ambient or enviromental lighting. It's the most solid thing to ever go into a game. Love it!

But the dynamic lighting could be better, to date I think it's the least solid thing to ever go into a game

Point being that lighting from the sun, moon, skyline (yesterday I had to call in arty illumination just to find the ammocrate where I knew there was NVG available, during extremely hard sunset conditions with no moon), is extremely well implemented. How shadows and light is "flattened" with cloud cover is another strongpoint.

But, dynamic lighting, such as flashing lights, car headlights, static searchlights and so on is poorly done. This is where more thought has to be done for the next version.

I would be nice to see flares and static lights produce proper shadowing, but it's not such a biggie for me (I know the cost). The actual light representation is of greater concern, and I really don't like visible cone on headlights if there isn't any fog. Similar with flaring of lightsources, only fog (or dirty glasses) will cause a lightbulb to produce glow/flare.

Off course we could dream further with ambient occlusion maps and so forth, but for a mainly ourdoor game, I don't really see the benefit over the cost to do so.

[Rexxenexx 0]

I'm sure BIS doesn't agree with the status quo in technology is good enough and they, as well as any other game studio, would like to hear ideas on how to push the realism in their game. I agree that it would be taxing on the video card to process realtime dynamic shadows on spot lights, but I think it would add the final element in this engine to create a truly realistic atmosphere. This lighting issue, the way it builds, gives away the terrain polys, and shoots through bridges and other objects is what would give future platforms using this engine the quality in realism users are desiring. Self cast shadows are awesome in this game -especially on choppers- and omni cast object shadows are also awesome. The terrain should get equal treatment in future releases, maybe not ArmAII, maybe ArmAIII.

[wipman 1]

Hi, when you walk (on the ArmA) directly under the sun beams you

see the arms of the unit in one way (as in normal light conditions)

but if you walk to get close to a wall or building that is casting a

shadow and you walk to get inside the shadow... there's no lighting

change on the unit, you still see it as when you was under the sun.

At least with the shadows quality turned to Normal; also when you're

above a slope or some high ground elevation... you're shadow is

"magically" projected directly into objects like walls and buildings

without project too the point from where it comes, you just see

the unit's shadow in the wall, but not from where it comes (ussually

from the feet) and that, in terms of realism and also tacticaly...

is very bad. I hope that they do it better in the ArmA2. Let's C ya

[paragraphic l 2]

The Terrain vs Unit shadow "bug" is with every shadow quality

High and Very High Shadows settings do cast shadow on the unit while in first person, maybe not behind a wall but I'm sure when you move inside a building it casts shadow on your arms and weapon

But I would really love "volumetric shadows" where treeleaves would only gives a soft shade while the unit in the shadow casts hard shadow. But maybe too much eyecandy and too less efficient

[berghoff 11]

Here is a photoshop -that image link above- of what I mean.

[im]http://www.rexxenexx.com/images/stories/suggestedlighting_arma2.jpg[/img]

I agree, hopefully there will be some changes in this area since it still looks like same lightning from OFP.

[Rexxenexx 0]

Actually I didn't intend for this thread to be a suggestion, but I guess it's turning out to be one.

I was initially wondering if ArmA2's lighting engine is different/improved in any way? Anyone know?

[smellyjelly 0]

Actually I didn't intend for this thread to be a suggestion, but I guess it's turning out to be one.  

I was initially wondering if ArmA2's lighting engine is different/improved in any way? Anyone know?

I guess that was partly my fault!

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

Here are some screens of the lighting in the upcoming "Delta Force: Angel Falls":

Screens of Delta Force: Angel Falls

Looks like there's fog in the air.

[TankCommander 3]

Arma lighting is indeed quite bad and by the looks of things hasn't been improved in Arma2. This might be partly because of their engine but I think mostly their art direction and lack of. Most games dont display raytracing or dynamic lighting (at least older one) but can acheive a good result regardless. It's all about shortcuts and 'cheating' to get good lighting effects and it looks like the Arma and OFP weren't all too focused on it. I mean look at those sharp cones of light we get. That is only possible when in fog/rain/dust and even then wouldn't be so sharp. They should have mapped, as said, some static blotchy texture to the cone which falls off intesity not far from the source to make it look 30 times better.

Considering the game is so vast in scale, lighting can possibly still be improved with more light sources casting shadows. As shadows are really only visible 50-100m from the player, why not? Maybe if they spent more time trying to acheive a better result with some 'faking' here and there, the game would still run smooth with some more shadows here and there. Games have been doing this for years so Arma 2 should at least try if its possible.

[TankCommander 3]

Arma lighting is indeed quite bad and by the looks of things hasn't been improved in Arma2. This might be partly because of their engine but I think mostly their art direction and lack of. Most games dont display raytracing or dynamic lighting (at least older one) but can acheive a good result regardless. It's all about shortcuts and 'cheating' to get good lighting effects and it looks like the Arma and OFP weren't all too focused on it. I mean look at those sharp cones of light we get. That is only possible when in fog/rain/dust and even then wouldn't be so sharp. They should have mapped, as said, some static blotchy texture to the cone which falls off intesity not far from the source to make it look 30 times better.

Considering the game is so vast in scale, lighting can possibly still be improved with more light sources casting shadows. As shadows are really only visible 50-100m from the player, why not? Maybe if they spent more time trying to acheive a better result with some 'faking' here and there, the game would still run smooth with some more shadows here and there. Games have been doing this for years so Arma 2 should at least try if its possible.

[stakex 0]

In ArmA there were three areas where lighting was really lacking IMO...

The first was car headlights. When your outside the car at night (especially in front of it) the lighting is really good. But when your driving the lighting is terrible. Its really blocky, and its really hard to use the lights from your car to drive at times... it needs to be much smoother and the lighting itself needs to be more realistic. This is one area that has needed to be fixed since OFP, and would be nice to see a fix for it in ArmA2.

Next is environmental lighting, such as lighting in towns and cities. This area needs drastic improvement. First of all the cities need to be brighter at night. They are plain and simply too dark... in that reguard OFP's city lighting was at times much better. Also, there needs to be more types of light sources, and not just a handful of light posts... cities should feel alive at night, and currently in ArmA, its like a dimmly light ghost town. Things like porch lights, walk way lights, spot lights, and other types of outdoor and decrative lighting should be used in the cities to give them a more "real" feeling.

Lastly, sorta related the the last issue is in-building lighting. The one huge problem I have always had with OFP/ArmA is that buildings have no self lighting at all. Every building that can be entered should have lights inside so buildings aren't pitch black at night. This goes towards cities looking dead at night... becuase even if a city is light up like Vagas, if the buildings are all dark it will still feel dead. It would even be cool is there were light switches and such in the buildings, but thats a diffrent topic all together.

Lighting can make or break a game... and while ArmA's lighting is at times amazing, it really lacks in these areas. Its my hope that ArmA2 see at least some of these improvements.

[mr.g-c 6]

I know that this is probably a bit to much asked for, but imagines how great it would look when the shader on buildings could reflect the sunset/sunrise colors simmilar to that.....

This would add a lot to the feeling of the game/scenery

Pics:

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/7531/99008654tc9jz3.jpg

and

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/8055/62466766ua5dr5.jpg

Best Regards, Christian

[max power 21]

THe volumetric effect they are totally abusing in those screens is okay but the actual lighting in those screens is absolutely horrid. Everything is so flat. I don't think I've seen screens of an upcoming game that i've liked less in recent memory.

[xnodunitx 0]

If I had to put a wish in lighting improvements for Arma2 they wouldn't be to the point of OMFGWEMUSTMAKEEVERYTHINGSHINY!

I'm mostly interested in a few things..

One, the game loses its luster in the transition between day and night, when the sun starts setting we see all normals vanish...I'm hoping that they won't do this for Arma2.

When it rains normal maps dissapear as do some speculars, Crysis and I believe it was Splinter Cell? That had a nice work around to this..I'm not sure about SC but Crysis has a type of shader for when it rains, you can see what looks like rain hitting surfaces and kind of 'flowing', plus the vehicle becomes darker, more saturated like most things become with rain, while adding a few highlights http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/9065/ondeckao6.jpg

But above all things..I'd beg them to fix the HDR, right now indoor combat is possible but nobody really wants to do it much because of HDR, I wouldn't ask for something fancy like most games interiors with all of the fancy dynamic shadows and so on, but the ability to be in darkness and STAY in darkness rather then HDR trying to make it even with being outside would be very very nice.

And one other nitpick I'd give would be their light system..they kill of everything, specular, normal and are generally dull, if they could tweak them to look more natural and act like real lights then things would look even better..right now the 'possible' work around is to place many lights in a small radius, and even then it's sketchy.

[Heatseeker 0]

If I had to put a wish in lighting improvements for Arma2 they wouldn't be to the point of OMFGWEMUSTMAKEEVERYTHINGSHINY!

I'm mostly interested in a few things..

One, the game loses its luster in the transition between day and night, when the sun starts setting we see all normals vanish...I'm hoping that they won't do this for Arma2.

When it rains normal maps dissapear as do some speculars, Crysis and I believe it was Splinter Cell? That had a nice work around to this..I'm not sure about SC but Crysis has a type of shader for when it rains, you can see what looks like rain hitting surfaces and kind of 'flowing', plus the vehicle becomes darker, more saturated like most things become with rain, while adding a few highlights http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/9065/ondeckao6.jpg

But above all things..I'd beg them to fix the HDR, right now indoor combat is possible but nobody really wants to do it much because of HDR, I wouldn't ask for something fancy like most games interiors with all of the fancy dynamic shadows and so on, but the ability to be in darkness and STAY in darkness rather then HDR trying to make it even with being outside would be very very nice.

And one other nitpick I'd give would be their light system..they kill of everything, specular, normal and are generally dull, if they could tweak them to look more natural and act like real lights then things would look even better..right now the 'possible' work around is to place many lights in a small radius, and even then it's sketchy.

My opinion exactly .

Other than that theres ofcourse artificial light sources from dx7 era..