What do you think about paid addons idea?

[raedor 8]

One risk I see is that those guys selling addons "use" parts of non-commercial addons... as we saw with BBN's DARWARS AMBUSH for example.

[DaSquade 0]

@ArmaAddons: Some way i'm glad you made the poll here as i suggested. I hope it give you your inview you wanted. But on the other hand, i'm sad you didn't listened to me when i suggested you should think about changing your concept. That was the main reason we at armaholic didn't and couldn't support your topic and it got locked.

So again, as you already know by know, legally this isn't possible to even think providing such a service. You should really reconsider changing your project into "payed on demande model service". What i mean is...your team provide every part of the model as a set for the customer. So have a set of resolution lods that is unwrapped and has textures and shaders if customer wants. Has the needed geo-fire-road-view-memory 'lod' (->model) in a file extention other then p3d so someone outside your project can import and bring into life. You can't simply sell 'addons'. ArmA supported models on the other hand (where no BIS tools have been used) can afaik be selled.

This offcourse limits your 'public', but one have to obey rules.

Unless there would be a huge demande for an payed 'addon' and/or 'model' service, only then it might be worth for BIS to check what legally could be done, like a salepage through BIS's hands (quality/performence/legal checks).

Like Ebud, i would be interested. Heck, i would pay if it would mean i don't have to be sitting behind my computer day-in day-out making own creations. Not that i don't like it, it is just very time consuming, and like we all know, it is more time consiming then in OFP days. On the other hand, in what way will you be our money worth...

Like i have requested over PM on armaholic, as long I don't get to see some samples/portofoli/whatever evidence that shows your and your teams skills, nobody will pay you anything.

Like mentioned, people are greedy (be it free or payed).

I don't even want to go into how this service would work (payment when? encryption how? support? timeschedule? price?).

Imho i don't think this will financially will gain you guys much. Offcourse depends on your price, but if i would count the houres i spend on stuff....you couldn't pay it (no need to scearch anything behind it, just explaining i'm a slow worker with eye for detail ).

In the end, if your interest in money, then this isn't your hobby anymore and afaik 99% of the (old) community did something because they like doing what they do, want or want to prove.

If you are for the bucks, you need to consider working in co-workership with a developer .

[BraTTy 0]

I would pay for addons.

But the cost of having someone make a addon solely for me would probably cost more than just buying a whole game.

And what good would it do if just I have the addon, how would others play with it and how would you control people spreading addons for free?

USS Yorktown comes to mind...big project

[raedor 8]

Another critical point is: Why should anybody release his workarounds or new features or whatever he has unique, when he knows that someone else is going to copy it and make money with it?

[W0lle 1049]

If you can please avoid discussion about EULA, author rights etc. It'll be long flame topic... i answered all i can at armaholic already. no links, no offers.

just _theoretical_ discussion here - that's all that is allowed here and i want to abey the rules atm

Why we should avoid this discussion? Because you are not interested in EULAs and copyrights?

I said it before, DaSquade also said it and since you're advertising your "service" now here too:

Who are you? What you have done so far?

How can we know you don't just grab the money and run off? It's time to drop the pants and show who's behind this. Otherwise I see no reason why this should be discussed further.

[RN Malboeuf 12]

W0lle

remove the link please.  it's my fault i copied it here by mistake ((

And we're discussing idea not that service here

anyway...

Quote[/b] ]How can we know you don't just grab the money and run off

I guess it's obviuos that nobody is pauying in advance ?

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

To be honest, if this were to become the norm, you would see a lot of people leave the "public" community.  In fact I suspect it would spell the end of open information sharing.

I for one would not be happy having you make money by reverse engineering our addons, using features, scripts or the tutorials we write for free.  On your site you refer to addons made by other people stating "Why these ? - They are not binarized and thus can be easily studied" so can we assume you will be doing just that.

EDIT - You dont seem to have a problem using other people's addons to advertise you "work" - Desquade and Hawks Nimitz?

If you want to make addons get an Enterprise licenese off BIS and make a proper Expansion pack.

I'll second what Wolle just said:

Quote[/b] ]Who are you? What you have done so far?

If you have a good history in the community that will only strengthen your case. So...?

[MehMan 0]

Bad idea. I dislike any idea of a modding becoming commercialized. It just creates more assholes.

[bravo 6 0]

I won't pay. I don't want to have money for the maps i made, also.

i feel the same.

[Pathy 0]

When 90% of the community carry on making free addons, any "buisness idea" of selling addons is going to fall flat on its arse. Simple as. Whose going to pay for what they can get for free?

[baddo 0]

The "donate if you want" approach would be more okay. And at least some community website has received donations, so it is definitely not true that no-one ever donates money for community projects.

For example, I could consider donating for the FDF Mod project. It is something I would very much like to have in ArmA and also in ArmA 2. If it is at least the quality (relative to the game itself) like it was for OFP.

I don't write this idea completely off. It just raises eyebrows doesn't it. People question your motives and your honesty. And rightfully so. People are naturally afraid that you would take something from others and benefit from it commercially, without giving them any credits. Certainly, if the "community" provides most of what you need to start creating addons, then it's at least a bit questionable if it is right to "milk it".

You would have to make truly outstanding addons or not many people give you money.

If you get permission from BIS to do it and you work your a** off and not take others work and sell it, then I wouldn't have any hard feelings towards you.

But I am not interested in ordering anything from you. If I ever feel a burning desire to get some specific thing (which isn't already worked on by other people) into a game, I'd rather make it myself than expect anyone else do it.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Please link your EULA and copyright answers here.

You ain't doing this for nothing right?

Whats your intention beside making easy cash?

Will you sell some informations about customers too?

Without any good references why should somebody trust in you? These questions you got to answer too if its a serious business.

[da12thMonkey 1943]

I don't really like the idea of paying for addons.

I'd consider paying a small sum for an addon from a group or individual who I knew would deliver something of good quality with innovative features, having used their previous free work, and I could name you a few such people right here. Equally though, there are a lot of 'alright' addons that I wouldn't feel were worth paying for.

I definitely wouldn't pay an unknown like yourself who hasn't released any previous addons for free for me to try, or indeed published any material that could provide an indication of their ability as an addonmaker (screens, videos etc). I simply have no idea whether you could provide me with something that someone else could do better, and for free. It's too much of a gamble; and I'm now used to people making fantastic addons for free.

I also think it's daft to pay people to make addons to your specification only for your own use. I don't understand why people wouldn't think it was more worthwhile to learn how to make addons themselves, or at least provide helpful info for another individual to improve their free addons until it's of a standard you would accept. Neither task is all that hard.

As a customer, the only attractive prospect of paying for an addon would be if you had unlimited rights edit that addon. However, if you're capable of editing the addon, surely you could have had a half-decent go at making it yourself.

[max power 21]

The intent has nothing to do with it.  Once it becomes about money, it becomes about money.

I think that this is a very bad idea, and I'm 80% sure it's illegal.  I'm not sure that this would spell the end of the community or anything like that, but any of these addons would certainly not be from within the community as we know it.  It would be from without, targetted at the community.  The makers of these addons may be part of the community, but they would not be contributing to it in the conventional sense.  They would be feeding off of it and competing with it.

I think that anyone who wishes to release content that expands on the ArmA brand should have to get licenses in the conventional way.

[Denz 0]

Well if paying for addons became norm it would kill the missions and MP aspect of ArmA.

So what is the point of addons without missions to show them off in?

This is people's hobby. Everyone contributes their own skills to enhance it. Some make missions or write scripts and some are good modellers. Most give feedback on said creations. That is "the" community.

[RN Malboeuf 12]

Quote[/b] ]On your site you refer to addons made by other people stating "Why these ? - They are not binarized and thus can be easily studied" so can we assume you will be doing just that.

I wanted to make a usefull page - point other editors to usefull content they can study. Maybe i'll even consider creating some own tutes there. But best tutes are example - i can create some but... they will use bis unofficial mlod, thus it won't be hosted elsewhere

Quote[/b] ]EDIT - You dont seem to have a problem using other people's addons to advertise you "work" - Desquade and Hawks Nimitz?

just random custom image, no intent to harm anyone.

i'll rework the design soon. and i spoke to Desquade - it's not that big problem.

I don't want EULA discussion here cause it's senseless, it was already discussed at armaholic - so all answers are known atm. This topic is about _theoretical_ possibility of such a service. about demand for it.

Quote[/b] ]I'm not sure that this would spell the end of the community or anything like that

you got an example Flight sim communities live ok with it

[W0lle 1049]

I think the votes so far speak for themselves no?

Quote[/b] ] don't want EULA discussion here cause it's senseless, it was discussed at armaholic - answer is known atm. This topic is about _theoretical_ possibility of such a service. about demand for it.

It's all about the EULA from the tools you have to accept before using them. Just the fact you don't want it to be discussed doesn't make the problem disappear.

Quote[/b] ]you got an example Flight sim communities live ok with it

This is not the flightsim community and afaik you can create content for various flightsims without the use of proprietary tools.

And once again: Drop the pants and tell the community who's behind this. Several people asked that so far. How longer you're gonna ignore them or more important: why you're hiding if this is just a "theoretical" discussion?

[The Susser 0]

If it was a fee to cover the cost of the bandwidth costs of the hosting server, fair enough, or a fee to cover the burning of said addons to a CD/DVD & postage in a non profit sense, then fair enough.

Charging for an addon that you didnt make, for the purpose of profit for you, nope.

exactly what I was going to write. thanks for doing it for me

[RN Malboeuf 12]

Quote[/b] ]I think the votes so far speak for themselves no?

yes, 7.59% agree with me that's far more then i expected  

Quote[/b] ]It's all about the EULA from the tools you have to accept before using them. Just the fact you don't want it to be discussed doesn't make the problem disappear

I see no problem and no question. Such a service is not allowed by BIS. And it's not even about EULA (cause 3rd party plugins can be used to import models ingame not only faulty released tools ). All this and our personalities were discussed at armaholics. You want me pasting quotes or smth ? If someone is afraid to lost money - there're enough ways to avoid any risks nobody is asking money for nothing in advance

But once again this topic is not about legality of this idea

[Dwarden 1125]

let me put it this way ... such thing is violating EULA so it will need exception from BIS ...

so somehow i see no paid addons for ArmA w/o BIS signing deal with them (more sorta engine license)

only company which come to my mind with similar 'simulator' like product and paid addons was

Auran ... Trainz 2003 and 2004 ...

even if it allows paid custom content and it was on great way to be good train simulator ...

it turned to be bugs and performance issues hell ... wrong firm decision on concept (no KISS)

paid addons were sometimes worse than free

and in the end ... Auran went bancrupt trying to shell out some MMO and wasting 20 millions on wrong product noone wanted

...

would be nice to be able get trains into ArmA 2 would be better than anyting from Auran lol ...

but w/o the game logic prepared for such task ... no way

--

sum it up paid addons not gunna save the game or better the sales nor save the addon maker itself ...

[W0lle 1049]

I know the armaholic discussion - even better then you might think or wish

Quote[/b] ]for bunch of the reasons we want to stay incognito at the moment - though i can speak to admins in private, just to ensure them it's real proposal, not a fraud or smth.

You was asked there 7 days ago to reveal who you are and you're still refusing to drop the pants...

And you still expect people are taking you seriously?

[RN Malboeuf 12]

Quote[/b] ]And you still expect people are taking you seriously?

yep

free domain is what worrying me most.. i'll try to move in a few days

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

you got an example Flight sim communities live ok with it

Actually for those of us that were in the FS community prior to the Payware revolution see it a different way.

The incidences of "theft" and illegal use of freeware content rose 3-400% it split the community massively and resulted in a 2 year period of very poor quality free addons and the rise of "Pay-for-access" groups/clubs.   If you think this community has piracy issues you should see the FS community boards around 2002. Somehow i don’t think ArmA will have the same lifespan as the FS franchise.

Personally I think if anyone is stupid enough to pay you to make addons without seeing proof of your work and quality they deserve what they get.  I still don’t see why you feel the need to hide your identity behind a second account either.

[nephilim 0]

think its different if you get paid for "making" an addon than paying for downloading/purchasing an addon...

i think donations would be ok to keep the motor running..

but the other thing would be simply illegal and plain retarded and would only lead to the things rock juust pointed out.

@ArmaAddons

sort your crap...

your about to throw shit into the fan.

no one will pay for addons cause some will get them for free anyway. and heck no one would pay for crappy retextures and who does is just a moron sorry...

theres several really legal issues.

a) its not only bis you might get into trouble with

b) youd basically be running a small business /freelance job

which if you havent registered will get you into big trouble cause youd skip taxes etc etc....

c)creating game content on most likely cracked or software...

bis didnt only made the EULA to protect themselves you know..

too bad we dont have a dumbarse of the week award like over mp.net..

you´d definately get one...

no stfu and get lost please...

[Tomislav 0]

i always thought discussion about senseless topics get closed