Lawsuit against cheating scum?

[kronzky 5]

Well... as Shinraiden said - in an ideal, theoretical world you might have a bit of a chance, but in the real world of understaffed, underfunded and underqualified law enforcement I'd pay money to see the reaction of some bonehead police officer when you tell them that "when we were playing this online war-game, some guys joined and were shooting guys on their own side, and flying planes even though they weren't qualified..."

You: "And sometimes, when they do their stuff, our server crashes!"

Police: "Do they do this on purpose, and does this only happen when these people are playing?"

You: "Well, it sometimes crashes if some mods put too much strain on the game engine, but this is different..."

Police: "What's a mod? And what's a game engine?"

But anyway - Good luck, and perhaps you should take a video camera along...

[BLSmith2112 0]

Remember, Remember.... the 5th... of November.

Action Day. Sounds good. November 5th. Keep up the discussion, I hope to see a plan of action coming together guys.

[MehMan 0]

Well... as Shinraiden said - in an ideal, theoretical world you might have a bit of a chance, but in the real world of understaffed, underfunded and underqualified law enforcement I'd pay money to see the reaction of some bonehead police officer when you tell them that "when we were playing this online war-game, some guys joined and were shooting guys on their own side, and flying planes even though they weren't qualified..."

You: "And sometimes, when they do their stuff, our server crashes!"

Police: "Do they do this on purpose, and does this only happen when these people are playing?"

You: "Well, it sometimes crashes if some mods put too much strain on the game engine, but this is different..."

Police: "What's a mod? And what's a game engine?"

But anyway - Good luck, and perhaps you should take a video camera along...

That's exaclty what would happen. Besides the mockery. And they'd ofcourse "forget" to file the report. You'd get exactly nowhere. Just like now.

[froggyluv 2130]

Well... as Shinraiden said - in an ideal, theoretical world you might have a bit of a chance, but in the real world of understaffed, underfunded and underqualified law enforcement I'd pay money to see the reaction of some bonehead police officer when you tell them that "when we were playing this online war-game, some guys joined and were shooting guys on their own side, and flying planes even though they weren't qualified..."

You: "And sometimes, when they do their stuff, our server crashes!"

Police: "Do they do this on purpose, and does this only happen when these people are playing?"

You: "Well, it sometimes crashes if some mods put too much strain on the game engine, but this is different..."

Police: "What's a mod? And what's a game engine?"

But anyway - Good luck, and perhaps you should take a video camera along...

Thats not a realistic discussion. I took Criminal Justice for a couple of years and we had guest 'Cyber-Cops' who were extremely well versed in computer lingo and dynamics. Were this would fit on their priority list is another matter but like someone already said -'Its free to try'

[DBO_ 0]

Quote[/b] ]and its terrorible that they do these things. BUT its not illegal.

disabling input is a command in a script that BIS made to be used.

They are taking advantage of it but its not illegal.

You could probably put a script on the server so it would make it so disableinput would always be false.

But Im not much of a scripter but Im sure its possible if they can do it.

Like i said before to your assertion that a xam pbo is the same as an external exe .Bis have given servers the power to ban a person who has deliveratly crashed there arma.exe on there server and as a result may due to constant crashing ,crashed the server as a whole . The fact that these people are instructed how to and encouraged to do so again and again by means of an external programme exe that will aloow them to change there id , has no link whatsoever to an addon pbo wether its a custom unit or a pbo of scripts for cheating. this was my point the exe that was made by # f c and the new one that is bragged about is where the ilegality takes place , as for the pbo with a random prefix ,well thats like you say not ilegal at all.

[walker 0]

Well... as Shinraiden said - in an ideal, theoretical world you might have a bit of a chance, but in the real world of understaffed, underfunded and underqualified law enforcement I'd pay money to see the reaction of some bonehead police officer when you tell them that "when we were playing this online war-game, some guys joined and were shooting guys on their own side, and flying planes even though they weren't qualified..."

You: "And sometimes, when they do their stuff, our server crashes!"

Police: "Do they do this on purpose, and does this only happen when these people are playing?"

You: "Well, it sometimes crashes if some mods put too much strain on the game engine, but this is different..."

Police: "What's a mod? And what's a game engine?"

But anyway - Good luck, and perhaps you should take a video camera along...

That's exaclty what would happen. Besides the mockery. And they'd ofcourse "forget" to file the report. You'd get exactly nowhere. Just like now.

Hi all

In reply to MehMan

Have you read the previous posts?

The police are already investigating both TK/Griefer/Cheater's and the web sites that conspire with and organise them.

Look back a few pages

Now if we can get more server admins to get involved and get the idea out to other games forums we can gather such a mass of evidense that we can realy stryke a blow against the fascist TK/Griefer/Cheater's and the web sites that conspire with and organise them.

Once again here are the important links to the police cyber crime units of different countries.

In the US

http://www.ic3.gov/

In the UK.

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/crime-v....t-crime

In the Netherlands

http://www.meldpuntcybercrime.nl/english_information.html

Interpol is the place to report Cyber crime throughout Europe

http://www.interpol.int/

The link to do so is right there on the web page use it.

You can find your own countries cyber crime department by searching for "Cyber crime police" in your own language into Google.

Remember also let us make November 5th 2007 action day for all games to strike a blow against the TK/Griefer/Cheater's and the web sites that conspire with and organise them.

As Victor said if you play these games

Quote[/b] ]---- Vietcong 1 & 2

---- Armed Assault

---- S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

---- Battlefield 2/2142

---- Call of Juarez

---- Counter Strike: Source

---- WarRock

---- Americas Army

---- Call of Duty

---- Soldner: Secret Wars

---- Jedi Academy

---- Grand Theft Auto (MTA)

---- FIFA 07

---- SOCOM 3

---- Splinter Cell 3

If you know of a thread on their forums tell them how to report any crime that takes down a server, denies service, or alters data on a server.

Remember Remember the 5th of November.

So let us make November 5th 2007 action day for all games to strike a blow against the TK/Griefer/Cheater's fascists and the web sites that conspire with and organise them.

Kind Regards walker

[Michael_Wittman 0]

So what are we supposed to do on Npvember 7th?

[InqWiper 0]

I really dont see the point in trying to convice people this is useless based on your prejudice against the police.

The people supporting this seem to know alot more than the people saying noone will care.

Trying means a greater chance of success than not trying.

Pessimism and pacifism will get you nowhere.

[walker 0]

Hi all

In reply to Michael_Wittman

Its a crime Report it

First of all crashing a server or any Denial of Service activity that reduces a servers availability or causes its data to be corrupted is a crime.

Gather evidence

Server owners just need to start by taking logs and memory dumps (ArmA report files are good to).

FRAPS plus witness statements etc would also be nice.

Point the police at TK/Cheater/Griefer Youtube videos and TK/Cheater/Griefer web site posts.

Record all TK/Cheater/Griefer activity and IP addresses with time of assault. A weeks activities should be enough but a months activity logs would be better, a legal witness such as lawyer and computer expert witness would be nice but the police and prosecutor should deal with that.

Your web server provider has logs going back years as a customer you have rights to those logs.

Report the activity to your ISP/server hosting service they can then with police help log the activity. You may need to warn your clan members that you are logging server activity a simple boilerplate in the server onjoin is enough but check with the police.

Why even running a cheat mod such as a speed hack is a crime

Deliberately altering the way data is sent by the game once it steps from game on the TK/Cheater/Griefer PC on to the internet to the target Game server is the point where a crime is committed.

Servers are black boxes that expect certain inputs. Altering the way and form such data is sent by for instance increasing the speed of an avatar outside its server addon config speed is altering the data on the program from its normal running. That is all that has to be proved.

Establishing lack of permission

The TK/Cheater/Griefer would need the explicit permission in the form of a legal letter from the server owner to alter the way the server receives its imputs. The server owner needs merely to state they have no such permission.

Establishing the TK/Cheater/Griefer Intention

It is the inherent desired action of the TK/Cheater/Griefer to make their avatar move faster than the speed set in the game as set on the Server version addon in order to gain an advantage over other players. Their downloading the TK/Cheater/Griefer files, post on the TK/Cheater/Griefer  websites and any Youtube videos they make all establish intention. Unless they have got the permission of the Server owner to alter this data, then they are breaking the law.

Establishing Conspiracy (Do not worry about this the police and prosecutor deal with it )

It should be no problem for the public prosecutor to get one of a group of as few as three people to roll over on the others and any TK/Cheater/Griefer websites in order to cut a deal for a lesser sentence. In fact the TK/Cheater/Griefer websites would probably be the first to roll over and would give up all their clients so the police and prosecutors could get them selves a big haul.

In the US: Establishing the organised crime RICOH act (Do not worry about this the police and prosecutor deal with it )

The threat alone of this would make any TK/Cheater/Griefer websites roll over on their clients for the other crimes. The TK/Cheater/Griefer will not even know when the police take over the TK/Cheater/Griefer website

Action in the build up for November 5th

Your First course of action is contacting the police of the country of each of places of residence of your clan members and most importantly your game server country of location and report the TK/Griefer/Cheater's activity and websites to the police, CC the letter to your Local political representative.

Tell the police about the TK/Griefer/Cheater's website and their front page boilerplate let the police go through it with their Lawyer you will be surprised to learn that their attempt at a boilerplate on their site is the most superb evidence against them. When I read it I was amazed at how naive it was.  

Report the TK/Griefer/Cheater's activity to CERT as an organised Denial of service activity this gets international police and cyber crime involved. Reporting computer misuse to CERT is FREE!

Action for November 5th

All the clans and ideally the game producers and developers need to join together to do this at the same time. November 5th 2007 would be a good date to all contact ISP's, Police, Lawyers, Politicians, and Media. But start the ball rolling by contacting you police service now. The sooner the police start investigating the better. On November 5th 2007 a mass of people emailing the police to question what they have done since you reported the crime will create a buzz.

A nice pro-forma letter or email is needed that includes the

Previous version of the boilerplate from the TK/Griefer/Cheater website in a screen shot and a signed affidavit saying when it was taken The best evidence is the TK/Griefer/Cheater's own website. A lawyer taking a copy would be good but the police visiting the site and taking their copy is best.

Use Google to search for the TK/Griefer/Cheater's then click on similar pages there are lots of links to other pages on their web site and you have entered their website without agreeing to their boilerplate which leaves you or the police free to gather as much evidence as you need!

That is a basic plan of action I am sure others will contribute.

Why not distribute the plan to all game sites? See my post above.

Once again here are the important links to the police cyber crime units of different coutries.

In the US

http://www.ic3.gov/

In the UK.

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/crime-v....t-crime

In the Netherlands

http://www.meldpuntcybercrime.nl/english_information.html

Interpol is the place to report Cyber crime throughout Europe

http://www.interpol.int/

The link to do so is right there on the web page use it.

You can find your own countries cyber crime department by searching for "Cyber crime police" in your own language into Google.

Remember also let us make November 5th 2007 action day for all games to strike a blow against the TK/Griefer/Cheater's and the web sites that conspire with and organise them.

As Victor said if you play these games

Quote[/b] ]---- Vietcong 1 & 2

---- Armed Assault

---- S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

---- Battlefield 2/2142

---- Call of Juarez

---- Counter Strike: Source

---- WarRock

---- Americas Army

---- Call of Duty

---- Soldner: Secret Wars

---- Jedi Academy

---- Grand Theft Auto (MTA)

---- FIFA 07

---- SOCOM 3

---- Splinter Cell 3

If you know of a thread on their forums tell them how to report any crime that takes down a server, denies service, or alters data on a server.

Remember Remember the 5th of November.

So let us make November 5th 2007 action day for all games to strike a blow against the TK/Griefer/Cheater's fascists and the web sites that conspire with and organise them.

Kind Regards walker

[MehMan 0]

Apologies walker for not reading the previous posts. I missed that.

Well you have one person who reported activities, but that's about it. Have you tried contacting some server admins to get some more support?

[Dwarden 1124]

walker fraps ? please try stick to evidence which is considerable as proof ...

fraps clientside = fakeable ...

aka what i posted before ... i'm not gunna repeat myself

[Hyrax0740 0]

all mine is, Server Logs with the Date, Time , IPs, and the IP senting all the packets which crashed the boxes

[Doolittle 0]

Here's an idea.. since you're talking about collecting evidence. We have a bug wiki, right? Why not a cheat log wiki thing where people can post when whatever happened. This way we can spot trends.. like at what time the criminals operate. Or perhaps over the months see what time of year they are most active.

[walker 0]

Hi all

In reply to Dwarden

"I said FRAPS with a witness statement." EG several people affirm that this is what was seen.

I am also talking about suporting evidense. In other words evidense that adds to the far stronger Server Logs with the Date, Time , IPs, and the IP packets which have been sent and log files from host provider that Hyrax0740 or any server admin/owner can gather as evidense.

So essentially the FRAPS are an attachment to an affidavit that each witness affirms is a true copy at the time they are passed to the police.

I take what you are saying about recorded evidence. The same applies with photographs and video records they can only be admitted if they are confirmed as not being altered by an expert witness and the evidence chain is verified.

Kind Regards walker

[saureco 0]

I've forwarded this discussion of action on November 5th to my clan. I'll see if I can push this issue into the Battlefield community. But I'm really here to link you guys to this page.

The lawsuit argument is valid per the following section:

Quote[/b] ](5)

(A) knowingly causes the transmission of a program, information, code, or command, and as a result of such conduct, intentionally causes damage without authorization, to a protected computer;

(B) intentionally accesses a protected computer without authorization, and as a result of such conduct, recklessly causes damage; or

© intentionally accesses a protected computer without authorization, and as a result of such conduct, causes damage;

The argument against groups that manufacture hacks specifically for games is that they are providing tools specifically to would-be criminals. According to the law above, they are providing tools to people to cause harm to computer systems. Code writers for hacks and scripts are intelligent people, but there is more money to be made by illegal sale of these tools than by legal use of them. As walker mentioned, build a case against the code writers and distributors and you will have their clients handed to you on a silver platter. Conversely, if you build a list of IPs where hacks have originated, you can build a case against the hack writers. If you build a sizable list of hackers that used hacking programs and scripts from a specific source, you have the dealer. Take out the dealers and the market goes dry. According the rants of the players on this forum, you guys are already working on the latter...

Might I also suggest you guys get in contact with The Cheat Police and have ArmA added to their watch list. They can be found here.

[Michael_Wittman 0]

Cyber-crime are chasing pedophiles, child molesters, real terrorist, money hookers.....so if you go to police telling you are pissed because someone is "fuling" your joy time they will laugh their arse off.

Unless BI, Ubisoft, EA, and mayor companys make a lawsuit we are nothing.

I´m just giving some prespective.

We only have the power of the market...thats just what we are. They of course can go def and wont hear what the community want.

But a message for Bohemia Interactive....look what is happening with Combat Mission Shock Force....(battlefront).... and tell me just one reason for this is something this is not going to happen to you.

Guys..... UNTILL THIS COMPANY DO NOT FIX CHEATS IM NOT FUKING BUYBG "QUEENS GAMBIT" "ARMA2" "QUEERS TURNOVER" "BE ARE THE BETTER" " THIS WILL BLOW YOUR BRAINS" or whatever...

give me a minimum asurance that I can play your game online in the fashion its ment to and we can keep speaking.

AND

I dont want a promise that next ARMA2 is fully secured...thats for children.... Im quite sure you know your market is not children....so dont fuk with us....dont fuk with ppl....Battlefront know...

[Junker 0]

Quote[/b] ]Avatar

Relentless Teamkiller

**

hahahah was meant to be admin but got lagged and locked a different player. Found a new way to kill everyone alive on the server. allflylow.sqs and press run about 5 times... LOL whole server = dead

Something i read in the KFC forums, Seems they do intend to use there tools for Harming/Destroying hardware.

[oChaos.DNJ 0]

Quote[/b] ]and its terrorible that they do these things. BUT its not illegal.

disabling input is a command in a script that BIS made to be used.

They are taking advantage of it but its not illegal.

You could probably put a script on the server so it would make it so disableinput would always be false.

But Im not much of a scripter but Im sure its possible if they can do it.

Like i said before to your assertion that a xam pbo is the same as an external exe .Bis have given servers the power to ban a person who has deliveratly crashed there arma.exe on there server and as a result may due to constant crashing ,crashed the server as a whole . The fact that these people are instructed how to and encouraged to do so again and again by means of an external programme exe that will aloow them to change there id , has no link whatsoever to an addon pbo wether its a custom unit or a pbo of scripts for cheating. this was my point the exe that was made by # f c and the new one that is bragged about is where the ilegality takes place , as for the pbo with a random prefix ,well thats like you say not ilegal at all.

The scripts they use that disable input are not threw an external exe. They are scripts in a .pbo. Most of what they are doing to disrupt servers is threw a .pbo .

Changing their IDs they seem to do that by using the keygen someone else made and released.

They made some type of program that seems will what I think it does is, generate the hash in registry that you get after you install the game. So they dont have to reinstall the game, to change their cd-key, which also changes their ID.

Also they brag about having a memory constant ID changer. So they dont have to do that, and can change it while they have the game running.

Its not illegal. They push their limits, but since they didnt make nor do they host the keygen. I dont believe they are really doing anything illegal.

The key changer they made is not illegal, because they dont provide a keygen with it. So in the sense. You would have to get a key from somewhere else to use it, which could be a legal key. (Though they provide a link where to get such a key generator)

The memory ID changer is probably legal. Since they would be modifying their own memory.

@Junker

How is Harming/Destroying hardware?

Explain.....

What he said is, he was going to use a script with disableinput to lock the admins keyboard, but lagged or whatever. Then ran another script 5 times, which sends all the players into the air to fall down and die.

[Junker 0]

Quote[/b] ]LOL whole server = dead

i read this as SERVER goes down.

[raynor 0]

The way I see this issue is that I pay X dollars to run a server every month. Now I am going to pay X dollars no matter if my server is up, down, slightly fruity, or running like a mad machine. When a group comes onto the server and conducts things of a murky nature that means my server is not running the enviroment I wish to, whether it be crashed or being run afoul. That computes to money, so this X money is now subtracted by Y downtime. Considering the amount I pay its only a fraction- though over time it becomes more and more money. Besides "A penny saved is a penny earned". So with my monentary loss I expect compensation from the party that originally caused the loss in the first place. I don't care if its two dollars cause it doesn't cost me anything to report the crime. Though a criminal conviction will not get you any money back. A civil case however will and unless its a class action suit we take up then there should be two court summons coming to their doorstep not just one.

[BLSmith2112 0]

Save moderators the time and effort please by referring to all cheating scum as "KFC". We all will know who you mean. And it'll save Placebo, W0lle, Kronzky, Dwarden and others a lot of time.

Besides KFC fits. By definition I can call both of their definitions: Fakes.

[SWAT_BigBear 0]

Actually Victor, they have put a filter on the "other" letters.

I've all ready been spanked for spacing the letters out, which I should not have tried. It was edited by a mod, with a personal pm from him.

[walker 0]

Hi all

The police are already investigating both TK/Griefer/Cheater's and the web sites that conspire with and organise them.

It is really important for us to spread the word across the whole gaming community. The more server admins that report the crimes the better evidence there is!

AND REPORTING CRIME IS FREE!

No costly lawyers involved.

As Victor said if you play these games

Quote[/b] ]---- Vietcong 1 & 2

---- Armed Assault

---- S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

---- Battlefield 2/2142

---- Call of Juarez

---- Counter Strike: Source

---- WarRock

---- Americas Army

---- Call of Duty

---- Soldner: Secret Wars

---- Jedi Academy

---- Grand Theft Auto (MTA)

---- FIFA 07

---- SOCOM 3

---- Splinter Cell 3

If you know of a thread on their forums tell them how to report any crime that takes down a server, denies service, or even alters data on a server that is not authorized by the server owner.

The Police will investigate this because it is a simple crime to prove; the police just go to the ISP of the reported TK/Griefer/Cheaters, which they get from the server owners report of the IP involved, then they record the packets and catch them in the act of altering data in an unauthorized way on a server and GOTCHA!

No If buts or maybes; its a crime to alter data on a server without the server owners permission. The server owner has merely to state that is the case.

Look back a few pages, the laws are listed and the  

Now if we can get more server admins to get involved and get the idea out to other games forums we can gather such a mass of evidense that we can realy strike a blow against the fascist TK/Griefer/Cheater's and the web sites that conspire with and organise them.

Once again here are the important links to the police cyber crime units of different countries.

In the US

http://www.ic3.gov/

In the UK.

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/crime-v....t-crime

In the Netherlands

http://www.meldpuntcybercrime.nl/english_information.html

Interpol is the place to report Cyber crime throughout Europe

http://www.interpol.int/

The link to do so is right there on the web page use it.

You can find your own countries cyber crime department by searching for "Cyber crime police" in your own language into Google.

Remember also let us make November 5th 2007 action day for all games to strike a blow against the TK/Griefer/Cheater's and the web sites that conspire with and organise them.

If you want to know what crime they are committing, look back a few pages there are links to the relevant criminal law for the US and UK there are also links to where you can get the info on laws in most countries.

Remember Remember the 5th of November.

So let us make November 5th 2007 action day for all games to strike a blow against the TK/Griefer/Cheater's fascists and the web sites that conspire with and organise them.

Kind Regards walker

[oChaos.DNJ 0]

LOL seriously, why do so many of these cheat/hacker sites exist and are not shut down if what they are doing is illegal?

Your whole premiss for your legal reasoning is flawed, because your interpretation of what they are actually doing and how these cyber crime laws are applied is wrong.

BIS, could possibly do something about it concerning the keygen/key changer stuff. But I think they may have protected themselves from legal action in that area. They are pushing it though.

[froggyluv 2130]

LOL seriously, why do so many of these cheat/hacker sites exist and are not shut down if what they are doing is illegal?

Your whole premiss for your legal reasoning is flawed, because your interpretation of what they are actually doing and how these cyber crime laws are applied is wrong.

BIS, could possibly do something about it concerning the keygen/key changer stuff. But I think they may have protected themselves from legal action in that area. They are pushing it though.

Your deliberate drive to dissuade people from investigating and attempting legal action raises red flags to your true intent.

First of all you cannot claim without a shadow of a doubt that anything is 100% legal in a situation like this. Much of 'internet law' is still in the grey area, trying to adapt and adhere to an ever changing virtual world with real stakes for some people. Is taking someone's car or killing a person 100% illegal? Not always- depends on the situation.

Second- contacting authorities will give us (gamers) more information on exactly what kind of offenses we can go after and what kind of evidence we'll need. There is no real negative to this attempt yet you seem hellbent on discouraging people to 'drop it' and force BI to deal with it. I say -both.