Lawsuit against cheating scum?

[ArMoGaDoN 0]

Crashing etc., sure makes sense is criminal, but things like 'normal' cheats, and spawning zombies - well that ain't really covered by the laws as it's just spawning weapons in script, same as spawning bullets from your gun. Legal stuff can stop the intentional crashing of games/servers, or intentinal overloading of the server/data stream - but we need BIS/registration/passport to fix the simple game-fuxing spawning stuff.  Legal can't do that.

(edit: locking admin out also would be covered in law I think)

[oChaos.DNJ 0]

LOL seriously, why do so many of these cheat/hacker sites exist and are not shut down if what they are doing is illegal?

Your whole premiss for your legal reasoning is flawed, because your interpretation of what they are actually doing and how these cyber crime laws are applied is wrong.

BIS, could possibly do something about it concerning the keygen/key changer stuff. But I think they may have protected themselves from legal action in that area. They are pushing it though.

Your deliberate drive to dissuade people from investigating and attempting legal action raises red flags to your true intent.

First of all you cannot claim without a shadow of a doubt that anything is 100% legal in a situation like this. Much of 'internet law' is still in the grey area, trying to adapt and adhere to an ever changing virtual world with real stakes for some people. Is taking someone's car or killing a person 100% illegal? Not always- depends on the situation.

Second- contacting authorities will give us (gamers) more information on exactly what kind of offenses we can go after and what kind of evidence we'll need. There is no real negative to this attempt yet you seem hellbent on discouraging people to 'drop it' and force BI to deal with it. I say -both.

If you prefer to waste time and avoid the real issues and how to really turn this game around then fine. But not me.

Id rather see something done, then to BS around and get nowhere. All your doing is helping them, and making yourselves a big laughing stock.

What do you think your going to accomplish with any legal action? Lets say you do actually get the KFC site shut down. Which you wont. Unless they do something stupid which breaks piracy laws, which they are pushing on.

HOW MANY MORE DO YOU THINK WILL SPRING UP BECAUSE OF THAT?

More will join in hacking and ruining the game because of that.

You really think your going to get rid of them?

You think all this legal action is a  NEW IDEA?

Its all been tried before. Why do you think it is big name companies of big games realized the best course of action is to prevent them from being to do alot of client side things, and to employ an anti-cheat to try to detect/ban and deter cheating and hacking....

-------------------------------------------

I dont know anything about their server crasher. If they infact are crashing servers delibratly.

As far as I know, the crash comes from a bug in the game itself.

Unless someone has some proof otherwise...

[falseprophet 0]

try my new mission packet for public servers... SPC dont work on it

but also the old t... hacks.. BI should really do something against them...

[Dallas 9]

LOL this is the Gathering's all over again. I recall KFC from Pterodon's Vietcong, where they also assigned a PRdude to spread misinformation to discourage company and gamers alike from taking action. They tried to undermind the anti-cheat development, by impersonating active members and crashing servers in their name. And when they got deply infiltrated, the laugh was finally on them for a change.

They do like the fame and it's obvious they're also present in this thread.

[Dwarden 1125]

about police laughin theirs ass off ...

get server hosting companies on Your side and they stop soon laugh ...

if there are financial losses, firms may go bancrupt, people may loose work and country looses taxes

and if country looses taxes , policeman may get fired or else

so let's ask again what they should laugh about ?

---

thankfully mind of people and laws changed since such times ...

key is in formulation of report and proofs involved for case start...

if You call police omg someone break into my wifi ...

it leads nowhere and you loose or get laugh by

if You fill report how your secured (relative word) network was broken

then Your network was taken over, You lost 100k by banking theft, 250k by firm data loss and another 50k rebuilding the network

plus your network was used as source of attack against xyz targets including some military or other gov agencies ...

then i'm quite sure noone laughs about...

[oChaos.DNJ 0]

First you have to prove in a court of law they are actually doing something illegal..........or rather convince the police/DA theres actually a law being broken to even begin to take to court.

Quote[/b] ]

LOL this is the Gathering's all over again. I recall KFC from Pterodon's Vietcong, where they also assigned a PRdude to spread misinformation to discourage company and gamers alike from taking action. They tried to undermind the anti-cheat development, by impersonating active members and crashing servers in their name. And when they got deply infiltrated, the laugh was finally on them for a change.

They do like the fame and it's obvious they're also present in this thread.

So lets see KFC was doing this in another game, legal action was brought up, and KFC still exists.........Is that what your saying......

I wouldnt know Ive never played that game.

and Ive never heard of KFC untill I played ArmA.

Nice try by trying to accuse me of such BS. I want a anti-cheat in this game preferably PB, I want BIS to fix their code and REDUCE HUGELY the client side abilities.

You want to play that game....

Instead Id accuse all of you of being misinformation agents by bringing up something that will lead nowhere, and will take attention away from building an anti-cheat.

AND Im not going to jump on the bandwagon of people who dont know what they are talking about....!!!!

Hating KFC and what they do isnt enough reason for me to LIE/go against my knowledge to hop on your bandwagon of what amounts to THREATS.

[froggyluv 2136]

Your welcome to have any opinion you'd like on the matter. You want to stand on the sidelines 'lol' and heckle, be my guest. Opposition only strengthens our resolve.

So what if someone tried before and failed- often things of this nature take persistence and repeated attempts. Getting police attention, enacting legislature, often fail until there is  substantial public outcry.

You favor PB, start a 'enact PB' thread and do what you gotta do bro.

[InqWiper 0]

First you have to prove in a court of law they are actually doing something illegal..........or rather convince the police/DA theres actually a law being broken to even begin to take to court.

I think it has been made clear several times that laws are being broken and I dont know why it is so hard for you to understand. You seem to hardheaded to be real. I think you are just here to try and discourage people from doing something. If you are not posting in the interest of KFC then why are you going on with your rant? what purpose does it serve? If you really think there is no case, why do you take the time to come back here and say it over and over again? Why do you care so much if people report something that you dont think will be taken seriously?

Instead Id accuse all of you of being misinformation agents by bringing up something that will lead nowhere, and will take attention away from building an anti-cheat.

We are all agents of misinformation? Thats pretty funny actually. Maybe you can quote some misinformation and disect it.

AND Im not going to jump on the bandwagon of people who dont know what they are talking about....!!!!

Ive seen alot more solid things from people supporting action against KFC than I have seen from you. I think you are the one not knowing what he is talking about and I would appriciate if I didnt have to come here and look at your opinions with no grounds.

Hating KFC and what they do isnt enough reason for me to LIE/go against my knowledge to hop on your bandwagon of what amounts to THREATS.

It seems you are suggesting that people lie about the KFC. How about you elaborate on that a bit?

I havent seen much of threats here. I have seen mostly people having a serious discussion about what should be done. I have not seen anyone making directed threats to KFC here. Please show me where people have been making threats and spreading misinfromation. The only one here spreading misinformation seems to be you, accusing people of lying and other things.

-edit

I would also like to add that the bigger this gets the better. If the media got involved it would probably do alot of good. There is nothing like the media to get the law off theire asses.  

[-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0]

glass is half empty, eh Chaos?

leave this thread if you have nothing further, thanks

You have established your opinion here, now you are merely trolling. BEGONE !

[oChaos.DNJ 0]

Your welcome to have any opinion you'd like on the matter. You want to stand on the sidelines 'lol' and heckle, be my guest. Opposition only strengthens our resolve.

So what if someone tried before and failed- often things of this nature take persistence and repeated attempts. Getting police attention, enacting legislature, often fail until there is  substantial public outcry.

You favor PB, start a 'enact PB' thread and do what you gotta do bro.

The PB thread has long existed before Ive been here.

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....47;st=0

and its sad, a majority of the community here has vote AGAINST having PB as an anti-cheat.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ](oChaos.DNJ @ Sep. 14 2007,15:52)

First you have to prove in a court of law they are actually doing something illegal..........or rather convince the police/DA theres actually a law being broken to even begin to take to court.

I think it has been made clear several times that laws are being broken and I dont know why it is so hard for you to understand. You seem to hardheaded to be real. I think you are just here to try and discourage people from doing something. If you are not posting in the interest of KFC then why are you going on with your rant? what purpose does it serve? If you really think there is no case, why do you take the time to come back here and say it over and over again? Why do you care so much if people report something that you dont think will be taken seriously?  

No It has not!!

Misinterpreting laws, and not understanding what KFC is actually doing. Is not CLEAR....

Because I stand firm on what I believe is true.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ] (oChaos.DNJ @ Sep. 14 2007,15:52)

Instead Id accuse all of you of being misinformation agents by bringing up something that will lead nowhere, and will take attention away from building an anti-cheat.

We are all agents of misinformation? Thats pretty funny actually. Maybe you can quote some misinformation and disect it.

Just as funny is it is to me, to accuse me of being apart of KFC and being here to misinform you all. When in fact, Im trying to educate and correct you....

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ] (oChaos.DNJ @ Sep. 14 2007,15:52)

AND Im not going to jump on the bandwagon of people who dont know what they are talking about....!!!!

Ive seen alot more solid things from people supporting action against KFC than I have seen from you. I think you are the one not knowing what he is talking about and I would appriciate if I didnt have to come here and look at your opinions with no grounds.

Like threats....?

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ] (oChaos.DNJ @ Sep. 14 2007,15:52)

Hating KFC and what they do isnt enough reason for me to LIE/go against my knowledge to hop on your bandwagon of what amounts to THREATS.

It seems you are suggesting that people lie about the KFC. How about you elaborate on that a bit.

I havent seem much of threats here. I have seen mostly people having a serious discussion about what should be done. I have not seen anyone making directed threats to KFC here. Please show me where people have been making threats and spreading misinfromation. The only one here spreading misinformation seems to be you, accusing people of lying and other things.

No I didnt say they are lieing, I said I wouldnt lie. They just dont know what they are talking about.

Walker. The guy here handing out all this legal information said and I'll quote..

Quote[/b] ]Why even running a cheat mod such as a speed hack is a crime

Deliberately altering the way data is sent by the game once it steps from game on the TK/Cheater/Griefer PC on to the internet to the target Game server is the point where a crime is committed.

Servers are black boxes that expect certain inputs. Altering the way and form such data is sent by for instance increasing the speed of an avatar outside its server addon config speed is altering the data on the program from its normal running. That is all that has to be proved.

This proves to ME. That he doesnt have a clue what hes talking about.

Then he talks about unauthorized modification of data on the server... HELLO

Does he not realize this is in regardes to actually HACKING INTO THE SERVER, as in using trojans/msdos/telnet ect. To gain an unauthorized access to a server and change the ACUTUAL data on it......

Running scripts on a game that allows you to make modifications to the world in which you play, does not fall under that law. Nor does changing client variables such as speed hacking/ ammo /ect that get transfered to the server threw the game.

Then everyones saying they are directly crashing games. Ok so show me some proof they actually are. They dont have it on their site. I cant view the dev section they have on there so maybes its in there???

This game is buggy and crashs on its own without the help of them, how do I know that they are responcible? Maybe they speed up the process to in which the server does crash by spawning mass objects. But how does that make them legally responcible for the server crash?

Then you have talk of mods like XAM1.3 crashing servers possibly other mods.

How do I know these arent whats really crashing the servers???

No one here has offered up ANYTHING.....

[mattxr 9]

What the hell has KFC got anything to do with gaming?

Or have i missed something or everyones just acting &*%3T^E$fv

Think im going to eat some Chicken now.

[froggyluv 2136]

Why does 'threatening' a group that sole purpose for existing to disrupt and ruin the gaming fun of others bother you so much? Your damn right - we are threatening within the boundries of the law.

You must have gotten lost on the wrong forum if you think were just going to lay down and die. like i said, if your so convinced we're going about this the wrong way, say your piece and move on.

[Balschoiw 0]

@oChaos.DNJ :

I´ve read your posts over there at the kindergarden-club page and just because they claim that it´s not illegal doesn´t mean that´s actually true. Comparing the level of conversations over there with the BIS forum here should give you a clue already.

Just because you toot for a PB solution (which is ridiculous btw, as PB aswell gets hacked) doesn´t mean that other ways of dealing with such individuals of a very special breed can´t be done.

People who have financial losses because of their behaviour have every right in the world to report them to Mr. Officer.

I´m also very sceptical about the success of such an approach, but there´s little to loose.

I´ve mostly always played on password protected servers to keep myself away from egomaniacs with a psychological deficit.

I still hope though that BIS has something in the pockets for them as they call employees of BIS facists, scum and whatever and all hang loose under the umbrella of "freedom of speech" which is indeed a bit naive.

[Backinthetxt 0]

I think its really funny how, BIS thinks they are going to make an ArmA 2 and make much profet off of it. You guys blame the hackers/cheaters, I blame BIS for their ignorance and for their lack of attention to the community, whom without, they wouldn't be SHIT! I find it funny that we constantly cry out to them about hackers and they haven't done ONE thing to stop it, not one. They are too fucking poor, why do you think they are attempting to make arma 2 within a year... I can almost garuantee you its not going to be worth the paper booklet inside the box.

I hearby call a boycott of BIS, fuck them, wait for codemasters to release OFP2. I'm sure it will be a much more stable game.

1. Because they aren't worried about VBS2 and the fact that if they include something "TOO REALISTIC" sales will fall on their military training software.

2. Because they have more money, and probably way more developers.

3. They seem to be a much more stable company.

Why do you think codemasters ran for their life in the first place?

All you people hopeing for BIS to do something about cheating are sadly mistaken. IT TOOK THEM 7 YEARS TO MAKE A GAME THAT IS EASILY BASED OFF OF OFP. How long do you think its going to take them to make an anti-cheat?

Better yet what quality of a game do you expect ArmA2 to be? They plan on releasing it next year

Yeah I'm being a dick, but only after time and time again, comming in here to bitch and whine about hackers, and hearing NOTHING back from BIS whatsoever. They don't give a shit about you. Thats why I'm calling for the boycott of BIS, let them fall through the ground just as their fan base has. I'll probably be banned for posting in such a manner, but frankly I don't give a shit. It'll just go to show that they are paying attention, but then again aren't paying attention.

Goodbye guys, good luck with BIS.

[oChaos.DNJ 0]

Because its pointless to threaten....and some of you actually might believe what your saying....

They are not dumb (atleast not all of them). Dont mistake them being total s***heads, for being stupid.

You wonder why they are laughing it up at you all on here?

Quote[/b] ]´ve read your posts over there at the kindergarden-club page and just because they claim that it´s not illegal doesn´t mean that´s actually true. Comparing the level of conversations over there with the BIS forum here should give you a clue already.

Just because you toot for a PB solution (which is ridiculous btw, as PB aswell gets hacked) doesn´t mean that other ways of dealing with such individuals of a very special breed can´t be done.

People who have financial losses because of their behaviour have every right in the world to report them to Mr. Officer.

I´m also very sceptical about the success of such an approach, but there´s little to loose.

I´ve mostly always played on password protected servers to keep myself away from egomaniacs with a psychological deficit.

I still hope though that BIS has something in the pockets for them as they call employees of BIS facists, scum and whatever and all hang loose under the umbrella of "freedom of speech" which is indeed a bit naive.

Ive never posted on their site.

yes PB gets hacked, but so does everything else. But having been hacked for so long, they have alot more knowledge and methods for stopping and detecting hacks then the others. But its not only PB itself. Its the ability to have the server tools that can enhance PBs effectiveness to catch cheaters.

and PB has a fairly good record of detecting atleast public hacks and updating.

[Dwarden 1125]

may i ask about what PB or VAC or else anticheat got with crashing the servers or similar criminal acts?

if memory serve me right then nothing ...

also ... don't let me start about program EULA, licence rights, unauthorized changes to IP and so on

especially while gaining cash from ads, donations or paid for producing such illegal content or else

and btw. server hosting companies and many game hosts got theirs own 'EULA' too the best example are MMO games ...

breaking them may also result into court cases

my PERSONAL support in this was for any type of legal action / lawsuit against these who break the laws ...

nothing less nor more

[oChaos.DNJ 0]

Ive seen accuastions of them intentionally crashing servers, but why cant someone offer proof as to them actually doing so?

as i said in my other post on this.

Then everyones saying they are directly crashing games. Ok so show me some proof they actually are. They dont have it on their site. I cant view the dev section they have on there so maybes its in there???

This game is buggy and crashs on its own without the help of them, how do I know that they are responcible? Maybe they speed up the process to in which the server does crash by spawning mass objects. But how does that make them legally responcible for the server crash?

Then you have talk of mods like XAM1.3 crashing servers possibly other mods.

How do I know these arent whats really crashing the servers???

No one here has offered up ANYTHING.....

[W0lle 1050]

Backinthetxt

+1 WL and a week PR for swearing, namecalling and flaming.

[Dwarden 1125]

Ive seen accuastions of them intentionally crashing servers, but why cant someone offer proof as to them actually doing so?

.

proofs are sent to law enforcing authorities , You are in no position to ask for them ...

[walker 0]

Hi all

In reply to oChaos.DNJ

Do you work for PB? You are pushing them a lot.

There is no such thing as a secure system that is connected to the internet; doubly so for a game and more so for a scriptable and modable game.

Your suggestions would limit the players freedom as most script commands would have to be made sp only.

PLEASE FEEL FREE TO COPY AND PASTE THE SECTION BELOW ACROSS ALL GAME FORUMS

Cheating is a crime!

At 18:36 on Sep. 12 2007 a member of the ArmA game community reported the actions of a group of TK/Cheater/Griefer who were using altered files and or exe's to alter in game data so as to reduce server usability/deny service/or bring down the game server.

And the police are treating it as a crime!

Quote[/b] ]Already sent in a complaint, within 10 minutes  i got a call with a case number, case manager, they have the thee IP records already of the IP and using there website for info.

Case Manager is also handling all the cases  with (web site of TK/Cheater/Griefer supporters redacted as it is now a crime under investigation) within the US so hope all is well

There no such thing as a secure system that is connected to the internet

That is why there are laws to prevent people altering data on a server without permission.

Even the pentagon can be and is on occasions cracked.

Much the same with banks or peoples houses they can all be broken in to.

Why are people unlikely to be breaking in to your house; so that you do not have to sit there at your door with a shotgun all the time?

Because of two things

Socialisation and Laws.

Socialisation takes place through all people saying a thing is bad, these become social mores.

Laws are the formal method to reinforce social mores with punishments to prevent people from transgressing the social mores.

If you think about it all theft, fraud, murder, vandalism is a form of cheating. Essentially the cheater wants to gain advantage over others at their expense. A thief grabs money off an old lady, a con man defrauding a pension scheme, a husband murdering his wife to marry a younger woman, a rapist committing rape, a gambler spiking a horse, a person using a wall hack in a game etc. They are fundamentally engaged in a form of cheating.

You may say the police will just laugh it out, yet posts in the ArmA thread prove you 100% wrong. The police are investigating TK/Griefer/Cheater's and the web sites that conspire with and organise them.

They are investigating them because the mere act of altering any data on any server in a way the owner does not wish you to do so is a criminal offence. In much the same way as stepping through your open door and taking your computer is a crime.

TK/Cheater/Griefers can whine all they want; it is against the Law

Here are the laws in the UK as they pertain to even altering data without permission they are the country I live in but other coutries have the same kinds of laws, see below.

The Computer Misuse Act 1990

Quote[/b] ]Computer misuse offences

( 1 ) Unauthorised access to computer material (1) A person is guilty of an offence if—

( a ) he causes a computer to perform any function with intent to secure access to any program or data held in any computer;

( b ) the access he intends to secure is unauthorised; and

( c ) he knows at the time when he causes the computer to perform the function that that is the case.

( 2 ) The intent a person has to have to commit an offence under this section need not be directed at—

( a ) any particular program or data;

( b ) a program or data of any particular kind; or

( c ) a program or data held in any particular computer.

( 3 ) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale or to both.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1990/Ukpga_19900018_en_1.htm As always follow link to the original materials and to read more

Also see the Computer Misuse Act 1990 as amended by the Police and Justice Act 2006.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa....-i.html

That makes an even nastier punishments and easier cases to use on people abusing your server/computer.  

In the US I believe it is under section five of the COMPUTER FRAUD AND ABUSE ACT. 18 U.S.C. § 1030

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode....0-.html

Have a read if you are a US citizen.

And follow this link to find the laws for your own country

http://www.cybercrimelaw.net/laws/survey.html

You can and should report cheaters who alter data on your servers in ways that you do not wish them to. So Yes! They are even breaking the law using a wall crack or a speed crack because you have not given them your permission to do so. It is your server and they need your permission to alter data on it.

If you invite someone into your house that does not give them permission to burn it down.

Whether it be by using  variants of pbos that you have not expressly authorized or if they are using an external exe. In each case if they connect to your server and use them to change server data in a way did not authorize they have committed a crime.

Remember the police are already investigating both TK/Griefer/Cheater's and the web sites that conspire with and organise them.

It is really important for us to spread the word across the whole gaming community. The more server admins that report the crimes the better evidence there is!

AND REPORTING CRIME IS FREE!

No costly lawyers involved.

As Victor said if you play these games

Quote[/b] ]---- Vietcong 1 & 2

---- Armed Assault

---- S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

---- Battlefield 2/2142

---- Call of Juarez

---- Counter Strike: Source

---- WarRock

---- Americas Army

---- Call of Duty

---- Soldner: Secret Wars

---- Jedi Academy

---- Grand Theft Auto (MTA)

---- FIFA 07

---- SOCOM 3

---- Splinter Cell 3

If you know of a thread on their forums tell them how to report any crime that takes down a server, denies service, or even alters data on a server that is not authorized by the server owner.

Where to report Cyber Crime

Here are the important links to the police cyber crime units of different countries.

In the US

http://www.ic3.gov/

In the UK.

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/crime-v....t-crime

In the Netherlands

http://www.meldpuntcybercrime.nl/english_information.html

Interpol is the place to report Cyber crime throughout Europe

http://www.interpol.int/

The link to do so is right there on the web page use it.

You can find your own countries cyber crime department by searching for "Cyber crime police" in your own language into Google.

Remember also let us make November 5th 2007 action day for all games to strike a blow against the TK/Griefer/Cheater's and the web sites that conspire with and organise them.

Remember Remember the 5th of November.

So let us make November 5th 2007 action day for all games to strike a blow against the TK/Griefer/Cheater's fascists and the web sites that conspire with and organise them.

Kind Regards walker

[DBO_ 0]

@chaos

I fully undertsand the line you take and why, but you are now ignoring the progression of this thread and quoting from the beggining , i think its now safe to say that people here are not saying :-

its ilegal to run a pbo that contains cheat scripts

its ilegal to use these scripts to crash an arma.exe ( but constantly ?)

its ilegal to misrepresent a gamer tag (could be in extremes)

What they are saying on the other hand is :-

It is illegal to deliberatly endorse and encourage people to

spam a server and crash it.

now i dont know if this is the law or maybe they simply say , because the arma exe when crashing actually crashes the server ,it aint illegal , its the fault of the exe .

N.B by server i do not mean the arma.exe

what we need from you chaos is proof that your own belief that the resulting actions of #fc has not crashed a server and that #fc do not provide the means by programme.exe or by text information on a website for people to be in a postiion to constantly ,cost hosters money by spamming them and when banned for doing so ,providing the means in which they may return to do it again.

what this thread is trying to do, is provide proof that they are

what you are trying (or rather seemingly trying to do) is misrepresent the purpose of some people in the thread by telling them constantly that they have not got a clue or a hope.

[oChaos.DNJ 0]

Quote[/b] ]Hi all

In reply to oChaos.DNJ

Do you work for PB? You are pushing their failed solution.

There so such thing as a secure system that is connected to the internet; doubly so for a game and more so for a scriptable and modable game.

Your suggestions would limit the players freedom as most script commands would have to be made sp only.

lol work for PB?

and your suggestions dont solve anything....

Heres your choices, either remove /disallow some of these more drastic commands from being used plus less client side  variables, or not sure how good this signing tool is, but have that or something like that which only allows verified mods/scripts so they cant issue all these commands/scripts so freely. Build/hire a AC to detect cheats/monitor client variablies.   Or continue the way it is....

I think it should be a combination of all. Removing some commands, or atleast from the client being able to execute them like disableinput. Seriously why is a client able to do this?

Signing tool or if not that great something better, which  is pretty secure in verifying files.

and a anticheat to detect known hacks, and other AC things.

@OFP2

Im ready for anyone to come here and offer up their proof that they are in fact crashing servers...

Theres been people SAYING they are. By some people it seems pretty easily accepted that what they are in fact saying is true.

I dont know anyone in KFC or have access to their restricted dev section. Maybe one of you do, and thats how your getting this information. But no ones said anything like that.

I know this game can crash threw its own bugs, and supposibly by mods that arent intended to be malicious. How do I know this isnt what crashed the server?

[Dwarden 1125]

[

Heres your choices, either remove /disallow some of these more drastic commands from being used plus less client side variables, or not sure how good this signing tool is, but have that or something like that which only allows verified mods/scripts so they cant issue all these commands/scripts so freely. Build/hire a AC to detect cheats/monitor client variablies. Or continue the way it is....

I think it should be a combination of all. Removing some commands, or atleast from the client being able to execute them like disableinput. Seriously why is a client able to do this?

Signing tool or if not that great something better, which is pretty secure in verifying files.

and a anticheat to detect known hacks, and other AC things.

erm so Chaos You trying to say to say something like this ...

either You put on that building blast proofable glass or next bomb kill people inside again ?

let say we put on that blast proofable glass and reinforce rest of the building

yet that mean nothing for the law authorities to erase attacker by force anyway

[oChaos.DNJ 0]

Well some of these things I suggest are pretty standard stuff in most games. Atleast most multiplayer dominated games.

But ok. Lets say they are crashing servers intentionally with some tool. Now legal action doesnt nessessarily solve the vonerability for the game to be crashed does it? Most likely your only going to be able to stop one or a couple guys.

Usually in these situations, it would be in the interest of the devs to learn from this vonerability and fix it. So them nor anyone else can do this again....

[tj72 0]

This situation is out of hand full on.

Its getting worse. Leaving one server for another reveals the problem.

Legal action is fine but what I would love to see is tools and utilities and a pulling together of the admin community to create a large number of safe servers. Alot of servers getting hacked that Ive ben playing on seem to be missing an admin and this type of server is the norm. A good admin is our hero in this fight.

Good utilities that the admin can use to find the culprits would be giving the proper weapons to our hero.

Hell, the cheaters might be setting up honeypot servers as a trap for all we know. Having confirmed safe servers in good numbers for public use seems like a good direction.

I dont want to get bogged down in tech details of how these cheats are working even though it seems amazing to me how easily and completely hackable ARMA is. I just would like to see some method of disrupting this "enemy" with countermeasure code and a range of options to somehow plug the holes or give transparency so cheaters can be quickly ferreted out in game and the disruption happening in MP is countered effectively.

Its almost like a version of the cold war/spy game but the theater of battle is the servers and the code that can be run during game time.

Example:

Round1

Server starts....everything is ok

Cheater/hacker attacks....the fight is on

Server is hacked/game disrupted..... we lose

Hacker wins and laughs/documents the hack probably as a trophy for his home site or forumn "Look at all these pissed off players ha ha!"

"Great job man!"

Server quits or game ends/player leaves

Another thread appears on this thread lamenting the problem with no way to change things. Our morale suffers and so does ARMA itself.

Getting info on the attack or documenting the event would be a form of recon and the next time the server starts (Round2) there may be a counter/stop to that particular attack. This makes more work for the hacker where he spends time making new code instead of attacking. Result is that the server has more safe uptime untill the next attack comes. Eventually the fight gets pushed to its limits and the winner will emerge but this course of events in war is nothing new I think. At least there is a way to fight back with our knowledge and abilities as users of this game instead of plaintifs in an older system that is adapting to our complaint. It seems more active and direct this way.

Right now it feels like ARMA is getting its ass kicked by these guys and they are having such a great time spoiling the fun. It would be great to see the cheaters exposed/kicked in game. Then screencaps can show up in the hall of shame thread as OUR trophies and the hacker is disgraced in his own fold.

Eventually the hacking of ARMA becomes too much hassle and these people may just move on. Its like they are addicted to the "hack" and nothing bothers them more then the loss of control they wish they had in other areas of life. So we can be assured that their failure in this venture is truly bothersome to them and makes them feel bad and a form of justice is dispensed.

Seeing someone heavily fined or led off in handcuffs for game hacking is a wierd idea to me. The real justice in my view is the removal of their power in the place they wield it which is in the game and in the sum of all the servers. Letting these guys hurt the success of ARMA IS A CRIME and Im not discouraging the idea presented here. I merely am questioning if we have chosen the best and ONLY arena in which to fight.