Is Queens Gambit going to have better animations

[dmarkwick 261]

I think its just too funny to see some guys posting here and saying that the animations/movements/controls are totally fine.

I actually think its hilarious. Why, because some of these guys actually belive these Arma animations are acting like there real life human counter parts would in a real war. They forget it should be a game that is there to be enjoyed. Lol, if i acted like one of these Arma animations did in real war, I would be the first one to go AWOL. Its a game, its there to be enjoyed, get over thinking its real life. A CTF GAME! should consist of fluid gameplay and movments. This game does not.

It's been said that if it's fluid CTF PvP gameplay you're after, then ArmA isn't really the right engine for it. I agree that it could be, but it would need a full reworking of the engine, I'm thinking here about movement indoors & how clumsy it is.

I doubt many people would describe ArmA as a CTF game. It has the game mode to be sure, but then look at the discussions it brings up, quite clearly it's not really suited for it.

The engine is designed as a mid-range battlefield engine, for which job the engine is more than fully qualified

I seriously doubt there will be an engine re-work of the kind that's needed for CQB of the PvP kind. The best thing we can hope for IMO is reworked animations from modders. Whether or not animation break-out code can be implemented remains to be seen. One thing I do know about OFP/ArmA modding is that never ever rule out the apparently impossible, for there's always someone who can pull of a minor miracle

[NeMeSiS 11]

A CTF GAME! should consist of fluid gameplay and movments, somthing this game does not do.

Exactly.

[Dudester 0]

A CTF GAME! should consist of fluid gameplay and movments, somthing this game does not do.

Exactly.

But should do 

[dmarkwick 261]

They forget it should be a game that is there to be enjoyed. Lol, if i acted like one of these Arma animations did in real war, I would be the first one to go AWOL. Its a game, its there to be enjoyed, get over thinking its real life.

Actually, forgive me this double-quote of the same post, but I think this deserves extra focus.

Actually, to say it's a game to be enjoyed is only partially the story, the game is made as realistic as the engine can support, and the enjoyment comes from that realism. If it takes you x amount of seconds to get from one stance to another stance because BIS timed some guy in full armour uniform then that's what it takes. Saying it takes away enjoyment because it should be faster because it's a game only shows that really you are using the wrong engine for the wrong game.

While I can agree that some animation problems should be ironed out (mostly the animation break-out part) I cannot agree that whole parts of the system should be speeded up just for twitchy PvP gameplay. Remember that everyone who plays has the same limitations. If you run around a corner and some guy is pointing a LAW at your buddy's jeep then you wouldn't expect him to be able to instantly swing about and nail you instead. I certainly wouldn't. And if it were me using the LAW I still wouldn't expect it. And I'd laugh at my stupidity at not having my back covered.

There are limitations to be sure, but decent teamwork can overcome a lot of them. Who goes running across a dangerous area without covering fire? this means that you know when the covering fire is beginning, and where you're going to stop. relying on suddenly dolphin-diving into cover in a split-second is not good planning IMO, and in the heat & panic of battle you STILL do not act in a split second, no matter how highly you think of your skills.

OK, so I'm making some amount of excuse for occasional poor animation response, but as you say it's a game, everyone has the same limitations and working around a game's limitations is hardly news.

[NeMeSiS 11]

A CTF GAME! should consist of fluid gameplay and movments, somthing this game does not do.

Exactly.

But should  

No a CTF game should, this is a semi realistic combined arms simulator.

[Dudester 0]

A CTF GAME! should consist of fluid gameplay and movments, somthing this game does not do.

Exactly.

But should  

No a CTF game should, this is a semi realistic combined arms simulator.

The way the animations/transitions play at the momment there is nothing much semi realistic about them. They act to clumsy and this remains the whole part of the argument. I'll put it to you what part do you find so realistic about them?

[Dudester 0]

They forget it should be a game that is there to be enjoyed. Lol, if i acted like one of these Arma animations did in real war, I would be the first one to go AWOL. Its a game, its there to be enjoyed, get over thinking its real life.

Actually, forgive me this double-quote of the same post, but I think this deserves extra focus.

Actually, to say it's a game to be enjoyed is only partially the story, the game is made as realistic as the engine can support, and the enjoyment comes from that realism. If it takes you x amount of seconds to get from one stance to another stance because BIS timed some guy in full armour uniform then that's what it takes. Saying it takes away enjoyment because it should be faster because it's a game only shows that really you are using the wrong engine for the wrong game.

While I can agree that some animation problems should be ironed out (mostly the animation break-out part) I cannot agree that whole parts of the system should be speeded up just for twitchy PvP gameplay. Remember that everyone who plays has the same limitations. If you run around a corner and some guy is pointing a LAW at your buddy's jeep then you wouldn't expect him to be able to instantly swing about and nail you instead. I certainly wouldn't. And if it were me using the LAW I still wouldn't expect it. And I'd laugh at my stupidity at not having my back covered.

There are limitations to be sure, but decent teamwork can overcome a lot of them. Who goes running across a dangerous area without covering fire? this means that you know when the covering fire is beginning, and where you're going to stop. relying on suddenly dolphin-diving into cover in a split-second is not good planning IMO, and in the heat & panic of battle you STILL do not act in a split second, no matter how highly you think of your skills.

OK, so I'm making some amount of excuse for occasional poor animation response, but as you say it's a game, everyone has the same limitations and working around a game's limitations is hardly news.

I never had a problem with Ofp and that was also classed as a realistic simulator.

[dmarkwick 261]

I never had a problem with Ofp and that was also classed as a realistic simulator.

And I never had a problem with Hidden & Dangerous 2. ArmA is the discussion point here not OFP.

If OFP is a more suitable engine then use that? Use ArmA for ArmA-suited gamestyles. I still use OFP for certain games, 'cos the abilities aren't yet ported over, there's no shame in it

But can we agree that the animation break-out is the root of most of the troubles? That if it were fixed then what remains is merely opinion-based?

[NeMeSiS 11]

The way the animations/transitions play at the momment there is nothing much semi realistic about them. They act to clumsy and this remains the whole part of the argument. I'll put it to you what part do you find so realistic about them?

I cant keep pressing the crouch button to crouch->stand up->crouch while running constantly in all directions and firing at the enemies at the same time. It takes time to lay down, it takes time to stand up and sprint off, and when im standing up and sprinting away i cant just stop halfway. I cant sprint safely on edges of buildings while making 90 degree turns. My weapons always have the same accuracy and dont get a huge dispersion because im running instead of crawling. Oh, and my weapon doesnt constantly point forward and i actually use my ingame-hands for some animations.

Basically i get the feeling that im trying to move a heavily packed body instead of 2 floating hands with a gun which are sliding over the worlds.

Most games are *way* to smooth, in RL im quite agile and yes i can stand up faster then the guys in ArmA and do way more spectacular things, however noone moves as smooth as in games like CoD.

When i just want some quick fun in a game and just want to shoot stuff i enjoy games like that, thats why i play those games, when i want this i play this.

[Dallas 9]

I'm happy I'm able to distinguish between Battlefield and ArmA, especially when it comes to diving.

[Dudester 0]

The whole point to this argument is that alot of players are not playing CTF or DM because of the broken animations/transitions. I along with alot of people here have tried to explain this the best we can, in the hope of gaining enough support so that BIS would change it, or just to show our frustration at them not fixing it. What i was affectually trying to do is help save this games skin and do BIS a favour.

I think some people here, who don't agree, are just kidding themselves that this game will survive without the CTF community. Well lets just wait and see. Normally when you make a game like Ofp you improve on it, you don't take step backwards.

[NeMeSiS 11]

The whole point to this argument is that alot of players are not playing CTF or DM because of the broken animations/transitions. I along with alot of people here have tried to explain this the best we can, in the hope of gaining enough support so that BIS would change it, or just to show our frustration. What i was affectually trying to do is help save this games skin and do BIS a favour.

I think some people here, who don't agree, are just kidding themselves that this game will survive without the CTF community. Well lets wait and see.

If the public MP of this game dies i think it will be because of the endless Evolution servers and the lack of other missions, not just CTF.

[Dudester 0]

The whole point to this argument is that alot of players are not playing CTF or DM because of the broken animations/transitions. I along with alot of people here have tried to explain this the best we can, in the hope of gaining enough support so that BIS would change it, or just to show our frustration. What i was affectually trying to do is help save this games skin and do BIS a favour.

I think some people here, who don't agree, are just kidding themselves that this game will survive without the CTF community. Well lets wait and see.

If the public MP of this game dies i think it will be because of the endless Evolution servers and the lack of other missions, not just CTF.

Thats because Evo is all this games good for.

[NeMeSiS 11]

The whole point to this argument is that alot of players are not playing CTF or DM because of the broken animations/transitions. I along with alot of people here have tried to explain this the best we can, in the hope of gaining enough support so that BIS would change it, or just to show our frustration. What i was affectually trying to do is help save this games skin and do BIS a favour.

I think some people here, who don't agree, are just kidding themselves that this game will survive without the CTF community. Well lets wait and see.

If the public MP of this game dies i think it will be because of the endless Evolution servers and the lack of other missions, not just CTF.

Thats because Evo is all this games good for.

Well the idea behind evo is ok, but the mission itself just discourages teamplay IMO, and its just heavily overplayed. I really dont understand why people would play a mission with just 2 or 3 people when they can join dozens of other servers running the exact same mission. Apparently they are afraid of starting behind the others or whatever, which is kinda sad.

[opteryx 1562]

Why does OFP/ArmA even have CTF? It doesn't make sense, a realistic combined arms tactical semi-simulator that has a Ultra CQB infinite respawn game mode?! Does not belong here, that's why there are games like CS, Battlefield, Quake etc.

ArmA tries to do something different, also uh.. the animations are Mo-Cap, erm.. it doesn't really get anymore realistic than that, the only problem ArmA has with animations is the ability to abort one.

END OF STORY

[dmarkwick 261]

I think some people here, who don't agree, are just kidding themselves that this game will survive without the CTF community. Well lets just wait and see.

Look, it's pretty obvious a lot of what's discussed here is OPINION. The general opinion is that animations need to be more flexible, but other than that it's down to preference. Nobody is kidding themselves over anything as far as I can tell, and certainly not because they don't agree with you. Just relax and allow people their opinions.

And for the record, I think the game will do fine with OR without the "CTF community". As far as I can tell the only community that matters is the ArmA community. You keep bringing up the notion of "the CTF player" and "the CTF community" but that's a label you have applied to yourself, for whatever reason. I don't know why people are so willing to pigeonhole themselves and others so readily. I would suggest that the most important part of this community is the clan-based private server part, just like it was in OFP. Take a look around the modding forums here to see how much stuff is being done, I wouldn't let the state of public servers solely influence how great ArmA is doing.

[Guest Ti0n3r]

Quote[/b] ]Why does OFP/ArmA even have CTF?

Cause it's a damn fun game mode. Just too bad that 99% of the CTFs played online are corridor ones

[Dudester 0]

I think some people here, who don't agree, are just kidding themselves that this game will survive without the CTF community. Well lets just wait and see.

And for the record, I think the game will do fine with OR without the "CTF community". As far as I can tell the only community that matters is the ArmA community. You keep bringing up the notion of "the CTF player" and "the CTF community" but that's a label you have applied to yourself, for whatever reason. I don't know why people are so willing to pigeonhole themselves and others so readily. I would suggest that the most important part of this community is the clan-based private server part, just like it was in OFP. Take a look around the modding forums here to see how much stuff is being done, I wouldn't let the state of public servers solely influence how great ArmA is doing.

CTF Player, reason been is that i don't play coop games. If you look in these forums you will see many players describe themselves as either Coop, or Ctf players. Its no big deal, its just that there preference is more for one game type then the other. I learnt this in Ofp and it seems to have continued into Arma.

Also, i do let the state of public servers influence how Arma is doing, after all these are the servers the new players to the game will see.

[.kju 3240]

@Dudester, frantic and Celery

You might consider these advices:

~ speak about PvP and not CTF - the animations are bad for any

PvP mode (not even speaking about most people don't have a clue that

CTF is a game mode and has nothing to do with CQB/large scale

maps besides CTF can be played on both/more ways)

~ Record the issues and upload them to youtube/whatever. Words

are to be understood different than meant 95% of the time.

Pictures / videos seem a lot more appropriate.

~ Help fixing these issues by the community itself. With a lot of

luck and public pressure these improvements might make it in

some patch - chances are very very slim though. Best chance

is to fix these for your server / league via (non required)

addons.

[Dudester 0]

Now that the tools for Arma have been released, is it possible for somone to make player animations similar to the ofp ones, or at least fix some Animation/Transitions?

[berghoff 11]

Quote[/b] ]Why does OFP/ArmA even have CTF?

Cause it's a damn fun game mode. Just too bad that 99% of the CTFs played online are corridor ones

Yup, i've wasted so much time on CTF Pierre, great fun indeed.

[.kju 3240]

Dudester this was possible from the start in ArmA. As far as i know

ifs mainly config bugs. Its not an easy job though.

You just need a group of dedicated people willing to invest some

time to fix these problems!

[madrussian 347]

Hmmmmm...

Does anyone know of any community members that are actually currently working to fix the animation bugs (such as the missing transitions)?

I thought maybe I read somewhere that you were Q?  btw- I'm not implying anything here, just curious.

I wouldn't rule out personally taking a crack at it if someone happened to know where to begin.  To start off, the one that bugs me the most is the missing transition between crouch to full sprint and back.

Here's a quick description, for those who may not have experienced it:

With my key setup I do not use evasive forward.  Instead I use the turbo key, which I map to "left shift".

Once in a crouched stance (stopped), I then hold down turbo.  At this point, he's still crouched and stopped, as expected.  Then, while turbo is still being pressed, I also press forward.  This should transition from crouch to full sprint with appropriate animation transition, instead, he goes straight from crouched stopped to full sprint with no animation transition what-so-ever.

If anyone has even the slightest clue on where to start in trying to fix this one, I'd be all ears!

(Note- If anyone wishes to duplicate this bug, please do so in 3rd person, as if you try it in 1st person you cannot see yourself and thus may not notice.  Come to think of it, maybe that why certain folks claim they don't see any issues... b/c they are always playing in 1st person and can't see the bugs! LOL )

[.kju 3240]

i posted these recordings before in this thread:

Here are some demo videos of the animation bugs (size 1-4 MB each)

broken/missing transitions all the way

crouch_to_fast_forward_transition_3rd_01.avi

stand_to_fast_forward_transition_1st_01.avi

stand_to_fast_forward_transition_3rd_01.avi

strafe_to_fast_forward_transition_1st_01.avi

strafe_to_fast_forward_transition_3rd_01.avi

strafe_to_fast_forward_transition_3rd_02.avi

strafe(crouched)_to_fast_forward(cross)_transition_3rd_01.avi

strafe_to_fast_forward(cross)_transition_3rd_01.avi

compared to a working one:

strafe_to_move_forward(cross)_transition_3rd_01.avi

these are config problems.. so even the community could fix

them. other things discussed here are merely config tweaks as

well. however some things aren't possible to engine limitations.

in my view its up to the community to tell BI about the

importance of gameplay - working animations are one key aspect.

BI has still some dirty homework to do here!

ps: maybe someone likes to upload them to a video portal for

more convenient viewing.

---

Quote[/b] ]

95% of the anims problems are config problems. Therefore there

its quite possibilities to fix them.

However the animation configs are one of the rather difficult

parts in configs. The reason for this is that you can easily break

other parts by modifying certain things without noticing

immediately.

---

how to fix the transition problems:

Namespace_of_anim_classes_and_files

and

Moves

are a good start to understand how the anim/transition

system works.

feel free to ask more questions

[Beagle 684]

I would be more interested in the goddamned ability to holster pistols... A.I. can do it since 1.0 but the player can't.