Have another look at "Veteran Mode" BIS?

[frederf 0]

Like quite a few OFP/ArmA fans, I do enjoy the extra challenge of "Veteran Mode" but the game has gone a bit too far in its implementation.

Things that are good:

1. Can't see friendly, enemy, or self on the map updated in real time.

2. Floating white crosshair gone for rifles.

3. Can't identify friendlies with tags over extreme distance.

Things that are not so good:

1. TOW, ATGM, Javelin, Stinger, AT-5, GBU, etc target designator box and lock diamond are missing!

2. Can't identify friendly at 3m.

Things I'm not sure about:

1. M203 iron-sight-replacement missing.

Can BIS please reevaluate what they stripped from the game in terms of "Helper" symbols in Veteran Mode?

[zwobot 22]

Things I'm not sure about:

1. M203 iron-sight-replacement missing.

I want accurate grenade launcher iron sights

[wex-q 0]

2. Can't identify friendly at 3m.

Well, if you can't see the difference between uniforms on a 3m distance, you either got a terrible sight, or a crap comp running at the lowest settings possible, making everything grey..

Veteran is what real life would be, no crosshairs etc, and that's what makes it so awsome.

In the real world, you can't see a green bright text in the night saying "Soldier" when you're in battle, that's your own job.

But the thing about TOWs etc, that should be fixed.

[Mabes 0]

I'd like to see REAL M203/GP25 sights, the GP-25's suck in real life but it'll be better than what we have now, and the M203's will be MUCH better.

[Yeb 0]

Tow and at-5 should be steerable like in this mod, more realist and funniest as well, and when crosshair is disabled, tow and at-5 are totally unusable.

[opteryx 1562]

2. Can't identify friendly at 3m.

Well, if you can't see the difference between uniforms on a 3m distance, you either got a terrible sight, or a crap comp running at the lowest settings possible, making everything grey..

Veteran is what real life would be, no crosshairs etc, and that's what makes it so awsome.

In the real world, you can't see a green bright text in the night saying "Soldier" when you're in battle, that's your own job.

But the thing about TOWs etc, that should be fixed.

I'm pretty sure he's talking about who that particular soldier is, not what side he's on.

As annoying as name tags are, there should at least be some sort of optional identification of who's who in veteran mode because unless you're very close to an infantry man and you can see his custom face, there is no way of ID'ing him.

Maybe a more discreet name tag without the gray box around it which would only be visible from max 50 meters?

[Dallas 9]

I'm pretty sure he's talking about who that particular soldier is, not what side he's on.

As annoying as name tags are, there should at least be some sort of optional identification of who's who in veteran mode because unless you're very close to an infantry man and you can see his custom face, there is no way of ID'ing him.

Maybe a more discreet name tag without the gray box around it which would only be visible from max 50 meters?

I disagree, but can't any host already go edit his difficulty settings and dictate which features should be enabled/disabled in Veteran mode?

Nametags do not belong in Veteran mode, unless ofcause the server decides it does. Veteran mode should be as HUDless as possible. Anyway you can identify the friendly soldier, by either his skin or by asking him: "Oi matey, is that you bobby?"

As for the 203 sights, I guess that would be fair enough, even though they are not really needed if your take the time to get to know it on the range.

As for Laser Designators a small indication of on/off in the optics would be nice. Or an audio confirmation when a missil weapon locks on a target.

[Heatseeker 0]

Things that are not so good:

1. TOW, ATGM, Javelin, Stinger, AT-5, GBU, etc target designator box and lock diamond are missing!

I can only speak for the TOW/ATGM... you have to press the space bar for the target lock squares to appear, like the tank comander .

[ACF 0]

I had the same issue with the Laser Designator - no lock diamond when 'fired'. The engine sees this as a 'crosshair' and disables it in Veteran. I suspect that's what's happening with the missiles.

If anyone wants to add anything to BTS bug 2241, please feel free - it doesn't look like it's been picked up yet.

[zwobot 22]

As for the 203 sights, I guess that would be fair enough, even though they are not really needed if your take the time to get to know it on the range.

Wrong. it is one thing to get the range and another to make the m203 fire at that range. You say vet mode should be as hudless as possible but you would accept the lack of proper grenade launcher sights? You contradict yourself.

I think the vet mode should not be as hudless as possible as in reallife you have much things that you cannot get in ArmA. In reallife you have much improved field of view for example. Why not have hud information that compensates some of the shortcomings of a pc monitor?

[berowe 0]

Not being able to identify your teammates at close range in vetmode is the dumbest idea ever.

In real life you can ID your buds from all kinds of ranges based on their skin type (which doesn't change IRL for each mission you go on btw), their mannerisms, height, weight, build, uniform variances, etc, etc, etc. Since these things would be a cold hard bizzleditch to model in-game--adjustable beerguts anyone?-- there should obviously be an alternative.

ARMA is simulating a modern combat force, these guys would know each other inside and out (well, inside maybe if they're Marines) and wouldn't need to say before each mission "OK U guyz lolz line up and let me look at yore faces relly quik!!"

I'm not saying make the guys ID pop up at 200m in the dark, but at least make it some realistic range, or maybe have it only visible to guys within the same squad/group.

[Shifty-16AAB- 0]

Not being able to identify your teammates at close range in vetmode is the dumbest idea ever.

In real life you can ID your buds from all kinds of ranges based on their skin type (which doesn't change IRL for each mission you go on btw), their mannerisms, height, weight, build, uniform variances,  etc, etc, etc.   Since these things would be a cold hard bizzleditch to model in-game--adjustable beerguts anyone?-- there should obviously be an alternative.  

ARMA is simulating a modern combat force, these guys would know each other inside and out (well, inside maybe if they're Marines) and wouldn't need to say before each mission "OK U guyz lolz line up and let me look at yore faces relly quik!!"

I'm not saying make the guys ID pop up at 200m in the dark, but at least make it some realistic range, or maybe have it only visible to guys within the same squad/group.

quoted for the truth!

at least bis should implement such a recon feature in the cadet mode. right now it is a pain in the ass to identify your team members, an aspect which is actually crucial for teamplay.

a pop up of the names above the heads would be cool. it should be limited to 100-200 meters.

[Heatseeker 0]

I had the same issue with the Laser Designator - no lock diamond when 'fired'. The engine sees this as a 'crosshair' and disables it in Veteran. I suspect that's what's happening with the missiles.

If anyone wants to add anything to BTS bug 2241, please feel free - it doesn't look like it's been picked up yet.

You shouldnt report bugs there that arent... well... bugs.

The laser designator doesnt need a crosshair, once you press "fire" a white dot comes up (wich is hard too see but you can use the sight) and you just need to point it at your target.

The AV8B with GBU's will only be able to use them if you lase a target for him .

The only bug i've found with this is that now it only atacks enemy targets. If i lase a building the AV8 will identify this building as a lased target but it wont take it out .

In OPF the A10 would bomb whatever i pointed the laser at, even ground..

[MehMan 0]

As for the 203 sights, I guess that would be fair enough, even though they are not really needed if your take the time to get to know it on the range.

Not really good with the floating crosshair as you don't know where exactly you are aiming. And you don't really wanna take pratice shots when you are low on ammo or need to fire really fast.

[ACF 0]

Quote[/b] ]You shouldnt report bugs there that arent... well... bugs.

I beg to differ - I had no visual feedback that the LTD was on whilst crosshairs were disabled. With crosshairs on, I could toggle the diamond cursor/crosshair/whatever on and off. I accept you don't need a 'game' crosshair because the LTD optics already have a crosshair for aiming.

Though I looked for it, I was bug-gered if I could see a dot. I simply assumed it was simulating a non-visible wavelength laser!

I don't know if you actually looked the bug up, but it was nothing to do with GBUs, but I suspect that it might explain difficulties that others were having simply because a vet wouldn't know whether the LTD was on or off.

[madrussian 347]

a pop up of the names above the heads would be cool. it should be limited to 100-200 meters.

Oh please god never that!  It would feel/look like playing an MORRPG!

Identification is fine, provided it can be toggled, but we should at the very least have to put the mouse on them.

[sirex 0]

2. Can't identify friendly at 3m.

Well, if you can't see the difference between uniforms on a 3m distance, you either got a terrible sight, or a crap comp running at the lowest settings possible, making everything grey..

i object ! my comp is o.k and i ru everything at low, can still tell uniforms easy enough. - usually the helmet shape gives it away at long ranges.

[Shifty-16AAB- 0]

a pop up of the names above the heads would be cool. it should be limited to 100-200 meters.

Oh please god never that!  It would feel/look like playing an MORRPG!

Identification is fine, provided it can be toggled, but we should at the very least have to put the mouse on them.

question: do you have in real life to aim at your comrades to know whom is who?

[Dallas 9]

As for the 203 sights, I guess that would be fair enough, even though they are not really needed if your take the time to get to know it on the range.

Not really good with the floating crosshair as you don't know where exactly you are aiming. And you don't really wanna take pratice shots when you are low on ammo or need to fire really fast.

You should pratice before you go into combat.  

As for full floating making it more difficult, I disagree. Last time this discussion surfaced, I went into the editor and taped my first try on a target some 200 meters away with full floating.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=M24Ix986UCs

Some carrer grenadiers claim the 203 sights are rubbish and breaks of for a good word. That they qualified without using sights.

[KJAM 0]

What would be nice is if there was some sort of namepatch on the uniform that you could make a custom texture for, sort of like the faces but a namepatch instead of the face

[Daniel 0]

It's weird how you get used to being able to hit targets without a crosshair marker, with floating crosshairs on.  

Using crosshairs in the editor feels like cheating for me now.

Although I agree, better indiciation when using lockable weapons in veteran mode is a must.

[frederf 0]

Now to come through this thread like it's a blackberry field and pick up the good posts in little quote nuggets...

Quote[/b] ]Well, if you can't see the difference between uniforms on a 3m distance, you either got a terrible sight, or a crap comp running at the lowest settings possible, making everything grey..

When I say identify, I mean who it is, not what side they're on. 100-200m is too far to get a nametag on mouseover, but 20m? At 20m you should be able to tell if its Frank or George or Billy. I don't like needless HUDage on my screen, but I do like knowing who the guy is 10 feet from me.

Quote[/b] ]Nametags do not belong in Veteran mode, unless ofcause the server decides it does. Veteran mode should be as HUDless as possible. Anyway you can identify the friendly soldier, by either his skin or by asking him: "Oi matey, is that you bobby?"

First of all the Cadet-mode nametags are ugly as sin. They're way too huge. I don't like HUD stuff in my realism games, but honestly which is a worse immersion killer, a discreet name tag that shows up under 20m and mouseover or having to say "Hey guys, form up on me. I'm the tard waving my M16 in the air like a loon."?

The best solution is a "hold this button down" to show the name tag of the person you're aiming at. Features:

1. Only works at <20m

2. Only displays nametag when you have the button held

3. Unable to shoot while you have the button pressed

Quote[/b] ]I can only speak for the TOW/ATGM... you have to press the space bar for the target lock squares to appear, like the tank comander

I don't know about you but spacebar holds my breath for shooting... unless you mean the <Commanding mode> button? Well, darn if that doesn't work. I mean, it allows you to see your cursor and to see the TD box and lock diamond. This is not a really good solution for flying a LGB run at 300 knots over enemy territory trying to line up on a SOFLAM designated target because you have to let go of the <Commanding mode> button before firing and we all know how short the lockon time for a AV-8B LGB engagement is (2-3 seconds) but it does kinda work. Thanks.

I tested it with a single player, haven't tried it in multiplayer when I am in a group but not the leader.

It wouldn't be so much of a big deal for TOWs if they modeled TOWs like they should (i.e. non-locking, optically guided from gunner).

The SOFLAM (Laser Designator) is easy to tell when it's on so I don't care about diamonds or whatnot. Just point it at your feet, if it shows a white blotch then it's on.

Quote[/b] ]What would be nice is if there was some sort of namepatch on the uniform that you could make a custom texture for, sort of like the faces but a namepatch instead of the face

This is EXACTLY what I want to (and will) do once the modeling tools come out. Why BIS didn't use the face.jpg to apply a portion of that texture to a spot on the unit's chest is beyond me.

===========

The M203 is simply hard to aim because it's waaaaaaay off in the lower right hand corner of the screen. VBS1 had the weapon held more realistically near the center of the screen so aiming from the hip could be done properly. ArmA with the gun barely visible in the corner is a design flaw.

[KJAM 0]

This is EXACTLY what I want to (and will) do once the modeling tools come out. Why BIS didn't use the face.jpg to apply a portion of that texture to a spot on the unit's chest is beyond me.

===========

Nice, though I wish BIS would do it then, each person on MP will have the means to do and means to see nametags (Addons on servers aren't really a good idea especially when there are lots of them

[opteryx 1562]

Quote[/b] ]The best solution is a "hold this button down" to show the name tag of the person you're aiming at. Features:

1. Only works at <20m

2. Only displays nametag when you have the button held

3. Unable to shoot while you have the button pressed

Good and valid points, I agree!

[frederf 0]

For some reason the Harrier and Cobra TD boxes and lock diamonds are showing up once the nextTarget command is used (be aware there are two entries in the controls section! and they are not the same thing! I think one might be command next target and the other might be plain next target).

Using the "space bar" (i.e. commanding mode) button works to show the TD box and lock diamond symbols only in situations where the commanding mode is actually available.

A lone Stinger soldier for instance does not have commanding mode available to him and therefore cannot get TDBox and LockDiamond symbols on his screen.

I have yet to fully test the HMMWV TOW.

And as usual you cannot free designate targets while in the gunner seat of the AH-1, grrr. Also doing a FFAR run in a helo with a gunner is difficult because one could normally give command of firing the FFARs to the pilot and not the gunner, but manual fire doesn't work when there's both human pilot and gunner. The gunner does not have a FFAR aiming point.