petition for wood camo

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Look, the Army uses ACU IRL, and BIS isn't going to alter reality in their game just to make you CTF players happy.

[max power 21]

SLA cammo isn't any good in the drier areas. I would just try to choose to hide or approach from an area that's going to do you the most good.

[Fred DM 0]

as Clavicula_nox4817 has already said multiple times, ACU are now the one and only combat uniforms for US Army servicemen. this completely eliminates the need for several different camo patterns. live with it, it's reality.

[MehMan 0]

The co-oppers may not give a damn because the AI is color blind to camouflage, even if you dressed in bright orange and had a huge green afro wig, so all is fine for them. The differences start when you actually pit two human teams against each other. You can spot an American miles away in the thick of a forest and it's really frustrating for the blufors to get killed by invisible predators.

It doesn't get fixed with a 50 meg addon you have to specifically find somewhere to play a map, and while someone might say "war is unfair", a game shouldn't be and not everyone is seeking for the ultimate realism experience with 5 hour waits and 10 hour crawl marches through an island just to get killed in a random artillery shelling.

We need the wood camo because our soldiers are lost in North Sahrani!

@ Fred DM & KyleSarnik:look at the quote, seems you missed it.

[Dallas 9]

Clearly a question of addons, not only that, a question of existing an addon. We've already had the discussion about BIS taking certain addons and releasing them in official patches. It wont work and the community don't work like that. Who are to decide which addons are approved with the BIS stamp and what kind of effect will it have on the creative freedom and general creativity of the addon community? Intall the already existing woodland addon if you really want it, I believe it's of pretty good quality. I like it alot, but I don't want to use it and I don't want BIS to decide through patches which community addons I should install.

[AWDrift 0]

I think it would be nice and since it's mainly for multiplayer the only way it will work is in a patch.

Most of the time realisim is enough to balance things out, but this isn't one of those times.

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

Next time I deploy I'll be sure to complain because our uniform isn't balanced right.

[Col. Faulkner 0]

The ACU is apparently ace for "urban terrain" though  

But it's true; they should give the ArmA boys a uniform colour that is

suitable for every environment and that has "stood the test of battle"

- like THIS for example.  

Incidentally, Clavicula, why do you need to pay out of pocket for your

uniforms?

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

Because I was issued uniforms when I first enlisted (BDUs), and for my first deployment (DCUs). The ACU became authorized while we were deployed and our command made it required for a change of command ceremony which forced us to all buy at least one set. We also recieve an annual clothing allowance, which..meh..is a decent amount but not when you're talking about buying $100 uniforms that are only supposed to last for 6 months but actually last for 3.

First time I wore one of my sets was for a jump and I ripped out the crotch when I PLF'd...I was not happy to say the least. The uniforms seem to be stain magnets that never come out. The pen holders, while neat for all those little Adjuant General guys who never leave the office, just get in the way one everything from seatbelts to packs.

I enjoy the pocket configuration, not havng to worry about pressing, shinning boots, and the uniforms are fairly comfortable. Now...if only they didn't look half retarded.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

The co-oppers may not give a damn because the AI is color blind to camouflage, even if you dressed in bright orange and had a huge green afro wig, so all is fine for them. The differences start when you actually pit two human teams against each other. You can spot an American miles away in the thick of a forest and it's really frustrating for the blufors to get killed by invisible predators.

It doesn't get fixed with a 50 meg addon you have to specifically find somewhere to play a map, and while someone might say "war is unfair", a game shouldn't be and not everyone is seeking for the ultimate realism experience with 5 hour waits and 10 hour crawl marches through an island just to get killed in a random artillery shelling.

We need the wood camo because our soldiers are lost in North Sahrani!

@ Fred DM & KyleSarnik:look at the quote, seems you missed it.

No, I just don't care what he said. BIS included ACU because it's accurate, and they made it accurately uneffective, too bad. Also, it's just too late for them to go and retexture the units, if they did they'd just get even more complaints from supporters of the ACU. Either way people will complain so why bother. BIS is NOT going to change the uniforms so just shut up already.

[zwobot 17]

I don't understand why the Blufor soldiers wear ACU uniform and BDU vests above it? Don't they have ACU vests too in reality?

[Wolfrug 0]

I know this won't be of much use since, well, it's not exactly very current : but as someone mentioned the OFP NATO soldiers had woodland camouflage uniforms, which we will hopefully see again in the future with CWR, which, I bet, will be a nigh-standard addition to most serious servers.

Just sayin'.

Regards,

Wolfrug

[Maddmatt 1]

I don't understand why the Blufor soldiers wear ACU uniform and BDU vests above it? Don't they have ACU vests too in reality?

You want them to stick out even more?

CWR will probably come with woodland units, it is set in 1985 so they can't use ACU.

[Ironsight 1]

I don't understand why the Blufor soldiers wear ACU uniform and BDU vests above it? Don't they have ACU vests too in reality?

You want them to stick out even more?

With proper lighting it shouldn't have been a problem. ACU works, just not ingame, it's BIS' job to make it work

[zwobot 17]

I don't understand why the Blufor soldiers wear ACU uniform and BDU vests above it? Don't they have ACU vests too in reality?

You want them to stick out even more?

I haven't meant to talk about the effectiveness of ACU in general and in ArmA in special. I just think it is an inconvenience to have the Blufor wear ACU uniform and woodland vests.

[celery 8]

What's with all the realism fundamentalism here? I've never heard of North Sahrani during class, or that Soviets invaded Nogova and the Everon island group under the command of a rogue general. Oh yeah, and before the newest patch came I didn't know that soldiers aren't able to squeeze the trigger of their gun while running, some people thought it was realistic. If you want my opinion, if USA were to fight outside a desert sometimes, say in the jungles of Venezuela or the forests of Sweden, they'd be very quick to issue some real wood camo to their boys. What's with the wood camo M1A1 and hummers in ArmA if they were just meant to defend the arid South Sahrani?

The ones who oppose change the most have played little or no adversarial games at all, because that's what they'd need to put themselves in CTF and C&H players' shoes. Empathy is the one thing that AI killers could use more. You can damn well CHOOSE not to use wood camo in your missions or play ones that don't have it, you're not forced to play specific maps in clan wars unlike those who play against other teams in tournaments and leagues.

A downloadable addon isn't a good solution because the whole issue needs to be balanced in maps where it's appropriate, and few players would download a huge texture pack to play a public game. Editorupgrade in OFP was different because it had barely any size at all.

P.S. It's not like you'd lose your ACU camo altogether, in this petition we are asking for additional uniforms.

[Frantic 0]

Also, it's just too late for them to go and retexture the units, if they did they'd just get even more complaints from supporters of the ACU. Either way people will complain so why bother. BIS is NOT going to change the uniforms so just shut up already.

are you in BIS to make such a rough statement?

i think not.

so why do u tell us to be quiet?

we are talking about an additional uniform and not about to change the whole units to what we want.

As long as i know, the US troops still use the BDU uniforms in iraq, cause they dont have enough of the desert camo uniforms.

For example the female soldiers, they are still using the wood camo in Iraq.

So where is the problem, if BIS includes some old wood camo uniforms within the next patch?

We are talking about a computer game which is trying to be a simulation and the whole army do not have the ACU uniforms yet, maybe in a few years, but atm they still got the BDU uniforms in their closet.

We just wanna have some extra units with BDU uniforms included in one of the next patches.

And if u would read my starting post of this thread you would see that the leaders of the troops found a prob and would like to have it solved.

The usermade addons are a nice addition to ArmA, but they will never be used for public PvP matches.

ArmA is still a game and nobody will loose a foot if there would be some BDU units within ArmA!

[MehMan 0]

No, I just don't care what he said. BIS included ACU because it's accurate, and they made it accurately uneffective, too bad. Also, it's just too late for them to go and retexture the units, if they did they'd just get even more complaints from supporters of the ACU. Either way people will complain so why bother. BIS is NOT going to change the uniforms so just shut up already.

You need to get your ass served to you in MP to see what he means.

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

Quote[/b] ]As long as i know, the US troops still use the BDU uniforms in iraq, cause they dont have enough of the desert camo uniforms.

For example the female soldiers, they are still using the wood camo in Iraq.

Well, as long as I know from multiple deployments to Iraq, there are no Woodland BDU uniforms that are authorized. Females get issued the EXACT same uniform as everyone else. Please, do not confuse wet weather gear and NBC gear with the actual dress uniform.

Again, you could argue with me, but I suspect you aren't in the US Army while I am. Makes for a pretty tough argument.

Quote[/b] ]If you want my opinion, if USA were to fight outside a desert sometimes, say in the jungles of Venezuela or the forests of Sweden, they'd be very quick to issue some real wood camo to their boys. What's with the wood camo M1A1 and hummers in ArmA if they were just meant to defend the arid South Sahrani?

No, they wouldn't. Regular Army would be deployed with ACUs, those of us in SOC might get something better.

As for vehicle camoflauge, vehicles don't always get painted before deployment. Green vehicles are still fairly common, but that is quickly changing.

The same goes for the Green and Tan vests. Many soldiers and units are not re-issuing ACU vests because they either don't give a shit, or don't have the funds to do it. Each of those vests is around $1,500 and if your unit doesn't have the budget for it guess what? You're not getting it.

Quote[/b] ]So where is the problem, if BIS includes some old wood camo uniforms within the next patch?

The biggest problem is that your argument (they're still being used in Iraq) is stupidly absurd and completely false. In the very beginning of the war there was a shortage of DCUs, but for the past year, ACUs have been issued prior to deployment for most,not all, units and those that did not recieve ACUs have recieved DCUs. It's quite simple really.

Look, I'm really sorry that these uniforms stand out in the woods, and I suspect that I'm quite a bit more sorry than many of you because I actually have to deal with it, but that's just the way it is. It would be really nice if we would adopt Multicam, but I personally don't feel like going out and paying $250+ for one set of uniforms, maybe some of you highly distressed people could set up a fund or something to help poor soldiers like me afford uniforms?

Quote[/b] ]We are talking about a computer game which is trying to be a simulation and the whole army do not have the ACU uniforms yet, maybe in a few years, but atm they still got the BDU uniforms in their closet.

Yes. We do. Like I already said in this thread. 1 March 2007 (that's this month) the uniform became mandatory for garrison and standard deployment use. It doesn't matter if we still have BDUs in our closets because any regular army grunt is NEVER going to wear it for the Army again, it should also be noted to you that for the past year, all new soldiers have been issued the ACU. Maybe instead of arguing with me, you could just read and understand? But again..how would I know? I am only an active duty soldier on the 2nd largest military base in the world.

[quotye]And if u would read my starting post of this thread you would see that the leaders of the troops found a prob and would like to have it solved.

Yeah, and if you would read any of my posts, which happen to be more well-informed than yours, there are PLENTY of problems with the uniform and they will be corrected over time. The color may even change within the next 15-20 years, who knows?

Quote[/b] ]I just think it is an inconvenience to have the Blufor wear ACU uniform and woodland vests.

Maybe, but like I said earlier in this post, changing out vests for some aesthetic value is asinine when considering their cost. Nobody in my old brigade of roughly 3,000 soldiers has an ACU vest, they all mostly have Tan or Green ones.

[celery 8]

Clavicula, you're missing the point here. This issue is about game balance and it totally sucks to be American in a green map, especially in a competition. You say that the biggest problem in a camo patch is that Frantic's arguments are false and stupid. What the hell? Maybe on the trivia side he may be wrong but no matter how long you write about current dressing rules it doesn't make the multiplayer problem go away.

Without having education on the subject, I'd guess that USA switched to ACU because of their current theatre of operations, which is in the Middle East. If Saddam and Osama lived next door in Canada, any common sense suggests that they use the appropriate camouflage and not stick to some stupid tan camo that any colorblind bat can spot through bushes and forests. The military adapted to desert conditions, they can sure adapt back to more lush environments.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

No, I just don't care what he said. BIS included ACU because it's accurate, and they made it accurately uneffective, too bad. Also, it's just too late for them to go and retexture the units, if they did they'd just get even more complaints from supporters of the ACU. Either way people will complain so why bother. BIS is NOT going to change the uniforms so just shut up already.

You need to get your ass served to you in MP to see what he means.

What the hell are you talking about? I don't care how effective the camo is. I don't care how fair it is or isn't. I don't care at all about the situation in game. Hell I wouldn't even care if I did get my ass kicked because of it. What I hate is when people make stupid suggestions. It's bad enough that the US forces are a mix of US Army and USMC, why make it even more inaccurate? Also when has BIS ever cared about things being balanced or fair? They want to portray war as it really is, including the bad parts of it, making it balanced goes against this policy. War isn't fair and BIS wants to show people that, at least that's what they've told us many times before... unless they suddenly changed their minds, but I doubt it.

[cobra@pulse 0]

I think, tbh, if you want BIS to make more uniforms just so you can have a balanced game, well, I'm sorry but balance isn't everything and thats not what ArmA is about.

Why not have a league or sumut with manatory BDU addons in it, then you have to use them, come on. These days its not hard to get an addon ffs.

The US in ArmA as well wheren't depolyed to fight in the first place though where they. So why should they be issued BDU's then? There main task in the game was to train the RCAS. Now, even if your argument was correct that in that sort of combat environment new uniforms would be issued, remember, the US where never expecting to be in a combat environment.

If you dont like it well im really sorry for you but thats what the game is. To make the game different you download mods. So my advice, hmm, let me think...download a mod perhaps?

[MehMan 0]

A non balanced game isn't fun. Fun is the bottom line with games. While in SP the ACU can work just fine, in MP it doesn't work.

I don't know about you, but I don't see fun as getting killed all the time in MP because they can see you from a mile away, however real might it be, it just isn't fun.

[DaRat 0]

Why the hell is this thread still going? It's ridiculous.

1. If you give the BLUFOR troops woodland camo, they will be disadvantaged in the south.

2. As stated before, the Army does not simply change their uniform whilst on operations.

3. Both sides are currently "disadvantaged" (Blurfor in north, OPFOR in south).

4. Since when was war meant to be ultra fair and balanced?

5. Use the goddam addons

6. (Most importantly) BIS WON'T DO IT

Seems to me that you guys want to be picky with realism -

You wan't BIS to implement something that is unrealistic (different camo in different situations) with something that you consider to be 'realistic' (woodland camo in woodland)

Make your minds up.

[cobra@pulse 0]

ArmA isn't an arcade game. Are other simulations completely balanced? I think not.

This still doesn't resolve the point that you seem to have an aversion to downloading a simple addon. It may complicate your games, but for heaven sake, remember the six P's...

Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

Download your addons before a game and get everyone else to and you've got no problems. I'm sorry you're life is so busy you cant click your mouse a few times.