official complaint to BIS

[whisper 0]

1 thing : it is highly improbable that BI leave what would be an official bug-tracking tool on a domain and server they don't manage. I wouldn't, anyway, too much availability parameters out of my control. That means migrating all the job you've already done over their server or a service provider they have contract with.

I'm not specialist, but I guess it is not a 20 mns work.

[Dwarden 1124]

to be fair i suggested Mantis as bugtracker multiple times (managed by forum moderators/admins + BIS internal testers & lead tester as source for theirs internal system) ...

even i LIKE wiki a lot , i think it's absolutely not enough for complex project with more than 100 bugs ...

not to mention way different approach (wiki can everyone edit, while entries in mantis only people with certain rights) and search function, ease to use merge

(ha 10 new reports related to bug #66993, lets move all to already answered&marked one)

it's just way quicker to manage than wiki page, it's way easier to orient and work with  ...

in wiki there is no way to fast search similar bugs, organize by types and status, filter by both etc ...

it's reason i post bugs in czech forum thread than on that wiki page

yet i seriously hope it will be "at least" used for Original FlashPoint campaign project (and later for Resistance project)

why i suggest and hope ? best experience with it as game tester (including combo situation where running public accessable and internal versions of mantis)

[Balschoiw 0]

@INNOCENT&CLUELESS

I guess you just fail to understand that ANY change in any modus operandi at BIS, even if it would be replacing the coffee machine, would take time away from the preparations for the 505 release.

I´m pretty sure that they are not working the usual time per day right now. Judging from the things Placebo told me a while back prior the release of the german and czech versions they were almost working around the clock to get things going and have/had a very strict timetable with no chance of taking care of things that are simply not on the list. Relax for some weeks and if BIS thinks it´s worth a try they will have a look at your suggestions and if the feel it´s better they may take it. If not, it´s still their own thing. I don´t think you understand the pressure and workload they are having right now. An improved buglist system is just no priority right now. With your pressuring you only achieve the opposite. You create bad feelings among them and suggestions coming from people they don´t like for their personality will just have a lower chance of making it into BIS. Even if you´d win the nobel-prize for your ideas, if you keep acting like that, you will simply be ignored. That´s human nature.

[INNOCENT&CLUELESS 0]

I wrote a few replies earlier:

Quote[/b] ]2.) bug tracking system

trac was just an example as well as bugzilla.

After testing mantis suggested by boecko I found it perfect since it has a very telling and intuitive GUI. So I would vote for that what boecko was setting up and filled with and one-time Biki import.

I did not suggest to open your internal BTS to public, I suggested a parallel system operated/owned by BI OR

operated by Community/owned by BI OR

operated/owned by Community.

Then I suggest to have a manual or half automated bridge between those 2 BTS which is usual, most mobile operators operation 2-3 BTS in parallel for different purposes and different level of knowledge and ALSO operating gateways to BTSs of the suppliers. No rocket science.

There is no risk at your side, your Biki/buglsit admins would receive tailored tickets, crap already sorted out, duplications are mapped already, discussions/clarifications between developer and TTcreator or TTmanager and TTcreator about a single TT would be inside the ticket and not messing up the complete bug-tracking-list.

If you are interested in the ticket flow I have in mind, it is in the letter for BI that Mr. Hebecker promised to give it to BI. So if it really reached BI, you can rescue it from the restroom and have a quick look at it :-)

So I made clear that we could work under every kind of ownership.

Assuming that the BTS would run not on a BI owned server, the daily backup could be FTPed onto a BI owned repository each night to be independent. So if we would fuck it up in a later stage BI would still own the content and continue with other guys.

[Dwarden 1124]

well i'm sure well done community driven Mantis http://www.mantisbt.org/ could be good addition to wiki ...

all what's needed is link from Wiki bug reporting page ...

then Wiki editors can utilize this "community driven" Mantis as source for Wiki page ... (instead anyone cause havok on that page) ...

yet it will be better for such "community" driven public Bug Tracking System to be hosted and oversighted by publisher / developer itself

(to avoid all reports / work get lost just because someone get "mad) ...

and that bring me on ...

why not discuss this with 505 Games http://www.505gamestreet.com/

AFAIK it seems BIS believe that 505G is good publisher with dedicated approach to theirs games and this could help such "project" ...

p.s. you can exchange word Mantis (prefred by me) with e.g. Trac or any other KISS (keep it stupid simple) style BTS ...

[INNOCENT&CLUELESS 0]

hehe, Balschoiw, and that advise from a guy using wording like "iron curtain mentality".

You are my first source now for that kind of advises.

[sickboy 13]

I think I&C has quite some great ideas etc up his sleeves... Kudos for that! As Balschiow says though, at this moment in time they have far greater priorities to handle... But at least the idea is more out into the open now... Let's see what the future brings... BIS doesn't end with the last patch, or the next patch, ArmA will be an ongoing project as far as I know, so let's see if this BTS systems etc can get higher in the prio list sooner or later when there is less pressure?

[Rhodite 3]

Sc@tterbrain +1WL - Offtopic and pointless posting.

CanadianTerror +1WL - Offtopic and pointless posting.

Toleration for offtopic/pointless/spam posts in this thread is at a minimal.

Stay on topic all please.

Thankyou.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]hehe, Balschoiw, and that advise from a guy using wording like "iron curtain mentality".

If you read properly, you´d know that this expression was not from me but the journalist I have talked to.

You don´t make much friends here if you keep going like that and maybe you´ll find out oneday that it sometimes pays to not only have an opinion and trying to put it through, no matter what, but also to have people who are still willing to support you on those matters.

[whisper 0]

Indeed. But obviously I&C knows far better than us peons, why would he bother being friendly?

[INNOCENT&CLUELESS 0]

@Balschoiw

ooops, sorry, I thought by referring to this you make his opinion to your own or agreeing somehow with that. But anyway it was not meant as bad as you took it.

But this "who said what - how was it understood - how was it really meant" will make this thread not more structured.

So again, my request to BI:

Public BTS:

- Should I forget it forever or

- is it delayed after 505 release or

- can we start with it now by trying to keep as much as possible work away from BI?

Documentation:

- can I forget my idea forever or

- can we go into a serious discussion about it after a certain date?

Is that focused enough?

My 100% dedication is ensured and I guess I can also talk for boecko.

Cheers

[Thunderbird 0]

Better submit your wishes, offers and suggestions after the long-awaited release of ArmA (505), with no offense, I'm afraid BIS wouldn't get the necessary time and attention to take your 'well-crafted' ideas seriously.

Just a friendly advice, it is up to you after all.

Regards,

TB

[INNOCENT&CLUELESS 0]

I do not care and I do not wait for the 505 release. BI suggested that they were ready in November 06.

The problem I see is that with every day left more and more serious people turning away from ArmA, in my direct environment I know already some examples. I do not say that they wouldn't return if BI improved a lot. But the difference to 1.02 must be huge to get them back I guess.

[sickboy 13]

The problem I see is that with every day left more and more serious people turning away from ArmA, in my direct environment I know already some examples. I do not say that they wouldn't return if BI improved a lot. But the difference to 1.02 must be huge to get them back I guess.

... patching doesn't stop after the next patch as far as I know, so maybe they can come back after the next of the next patches or the next one after that?

[colkurtz 0]

@ I&C

Quit bitchin, so they released the game a little early with some bugs - well too bad that's life.

They've promised to fix everything over the next few months without any further cost to anyone who owns currently the game. If you're not happy to wait for the fixes then return the game to the vendor and get a refund, instead of trolling the fora.

[boecko 0]

@ I&C

Quit bitchin, so they released the game a little early with some bugs - well too bad that's life.

They've promised to fix everything over the next few months without any further cost to anyone who owns currently the game. If you're not happy to wait for the fixes then return the game to the vendor and get a refund, instead of trolling the fora.

where is the substance in your post regarding the topic BTS?

Stop trolling.

[Rhodite 3]

Lets stay on topic people.

Keep it constructive.

Thanks

[INNOCENT&CLUELESS 0]

@colkurtz:

I can not remember that we are friends and put our cash together to buy ArmA. Hence stop giving me advises what I can expect for my money and when.

If you believe what they promised and you are happy you are a lucky guy and I wish I could see the world like you. Unfortunately I am atheist and not used to believe.

Would you expect really from my side that I pay an additional fee to get it finally fixed? Man, I would be a very poor man with your mindset.

[sickboy 13]

Would you expect really from my side that I pay an additional fee to get it finally fixed? Man, I would be a very poor man with your mindset.

Now I do not know where you read that in his text, but I agree with him generally; How about we first hybernate until 17 february and then talk again, wouldn't that be lovely

[NoRailgunner 0]

Sorry - I&C, boecko and friends

Suma reply to this suggestion:

Quote[/b] ]

...

2) Bug tracking system

This is definitely possible, however it seems to me the Wiki bug list as it is now works well enough for the purpose. The Trac you are refering to may prove useful, if I see there is a useful information in it, I will give it a try, and we shall see what may come out of this.

In addition to that, we have our own internal system, which we do not feel like opening to public, because of organizational and security reasons, and moreover, publishers tend to have their own QA and their own bug tracking systems."

...

What you want from BIS - to draw up a contract with you?

Well the topic we have here is "official complaint to BIS". Depending on content the posts can vary considerably! So take the friendly advice and open up a new - constructive - thread Thank you for friendliness!

[Rhodite 3]

INNOCENT&CLUELESS +1WL for ignoring a direct request to stay on topic.

[Luciano 0]

Perhaps the AI was improved. But it's really hard to notice with all the poor missions and the campaign.

Maybe choppers behave more realistically, but I failed to see how they are more fun to play than the OFP ones. I believe almost everybody wants the old OFP model.

I expected ARMA to have hundreds of people online at any given time. With lots of servers. Instead, there are a few servers, most are empty. And all they play is coop.

ARMA really destroyed some potential that OFP had. RPG missions will never kick off in ARMA because of the movements of the player. Because of the way planes and choppers behave, missions like that will never kick off either. Tank combat is also a joke, and with games like Red Orchestra, many rather go and play a tank battle there than in ARMA. As a result, ARMA became an infantry only game with 96% of the servers playing coop 24/7. (Because player vs player missions are too much of a hassle. Map loading doesn't help it either)

Stalker is coming out soon and we can compare the bugs and AI since both games are pretty large. We can also compare the number of people playing.

[sickboy 13]

....

hellooooo , come on lets move under stone until 17 February all together m8s and make our conclussions then...

How can there be 100s of players when the game is only out in Czech/Germany... Besides...The fact is that ArmA is an ongoing project which gets developped, further matured and maybe even further expanded, for free in patches (We already are receiving M16A4, East Jet, MotorCycles etc at 505 release!, after the release

Which simply means that if you want things changed:

- Give them some time

- Report your wishlist in the BIKI, but do not think things get changed overnight

- Report your bugs in the buglist in the BIKI, but do not think you get a patch next morning!

And in the unfolding days, weeks, months you might cheer up a lil when you see ur feedback or always bugging issue or thing, got resolved

[Maddmatt 1]

Maybe choppers behave more realistically, but I failed to see how they are more fun to play than the OFP ones. I believe almost everybody wants the old OFP model.

...

RPG missions will never kick off in ARMA because of the movements of the player. Because of the way planes and choppers behave, missions like that will never kick off either.

I completely disagree on you on those points, there is nothing difficult about controlling the choppers. They are more fun to fly that the unrealistic OFP ones. If you have followed these forums you can see that most people like the new flight model.

The infantry movement is fine, or do you play while you are drunk .

[sickboy 13]

The infantry movement is fine, or do you play while you are drunk   .

It sounds more like a low fps-er... I remember reading ppl that were complaining that the movements were shit and choppy... They finally checked their FPS and did the maths