official complaint to BIS

[sickboy 13]

...

"No no the world isn't round... it's flat... Really!"

[NeMeSiS 11]

I have bougth the game and I deserve to get functional game and that gives me the right to report bugs

Well they never promised you a bugfree game, and i havent checked it but AFAIK it doesnt say 'bugreporter tool included' on the case?

Now, ofcourse we want it bugfree, and we got the wiki, ok, its far from perfect but it works, as long as people report the bugs properly, and its much better then nothing at all.

[Kevlar2007 1]

I only say I deserve to complain and to report bugs because I am the customer and customer is the king.

[NeMeSiS 11]

I only say I deserve to complain and to report bugs because I am the customer and customer is the king.

Well you already can report bugs and you can complain, but at least make it useful complaining, not the same ZOMFG THERE ARE BUGS I HATE YOU BI YOU STOLE MY MONEY!!! we get over and over again, it may be a relief to you but it helps noone and just messes up the tread, everyone has read this stuff by now.

[Kevlar2007 1]

And stuff like some people are posting here also doesn't help anybody but they have the same right like them to state my opinion, come on, get real. I already have stated my opinion and I have right to do it.

[dm 9]

Oh man you live on some planet zorg or somethin!

Err, no, I live on planet Earth, in the plane known as "the real world."

I have bougth the game and I deserve to get functional game and that gives me the right to report bugs

Having bought the game you "deserve" what was advertised (which has been delivered - ArmA - it may have bugs, but it runs)

Having bought the game you get the "right" to nothing. You get the ability to report bugs, but nowhere in the EULA or any of the other "contracts" upon purchase was "the right to report bugs" outlined.

Much like access to these forums, do not confuse "rights" with "privellages."

Edit to add:

I already have stated my opinion and I have right to do it.

No, you don't. Not on these forums at least. You do not have the right, you have the privellage of being able to do so.

[whisper 0]

I only say I deserve to complain and to report bugs because I am the customer and customer is the king.

As long as you don't talk to your seller like you do to a dog just because you feel you're "the kind", no pb.

Now it's not because you bought something that BI must do whatever you ask (moreover when it is asked in the worst manner possible, ie without any manner), and some people here seem to have hard time understanding this.

[Kevlar2007 1]

Rights, privileges, EULA what so ever! Person who buys the game is the customer and it should get the working product, anything else doesn't matter for me.

I am not talking to BIS but to Forum/Thread audience!

[Sc@tterbrain 0]

Having bought the game you "deserve" what was advertised (which has been delivered - ArmA - it may have bugs, but it runs)

Well myself along with many others who bought the Czech DL Sprocket version don't have a game that "runs."  In MP the game crashes after 2-10 mins, sometimes less.  SP is equally questionable as a complete product.  Unfortuneately resolutions, assurances, and deflected blame have not alleviated this issue.

There are many legitimate gripes by customers, and most have been expressed by now.

There have been many explanations, defences, and counter-points (attacks) to those gripes.  Again prety much all have been used.

Seeing as I have been rightfully dinged for my "pointless" post of a picture that contibuted nothing, I truly hope that the moderators will also come down with a heavy hand on the continuing fruitless back and fourth.

Case in point is the current discussion of what is "deserved" and what is a "right."  This exercise in semantics is every bit as pointless and takes away from the issue at hand.

I apologize to those with genuine grievances, and pledge to only contribute to furthering the message of this thread.

[dob 0]

i v same mater, and after format my pc, no crash, so u need try that..

[Sc@tterbrain 0]

i v same mater, and after format my pc, no crash, so u need try that..

Already tried reformating and reinstalling (new drivers, new hardware, etc).  Thanks anyway.  Glad to hear that helped you.  

Dub I don't think you have the Sprocket version do you?

If you do then please post the specifics of your solution in the Sprocket trouble shooting thread over here so others can give it a shot and see if it works.

[Maddmatt 1]

What a load of crap. The english patch was probably the best thing that has ever happened to ArmA. Without it the game wouldn't had the community kick-start it got in right at the release.

So you're saying it's not being used in pirated versions? Only the major OFP fans imported or purchased download versions. The pirated versions floating around the net are coming with the english patch and are getting plenty of downloads (as all pirated games do - especially when they appear on the net before the worldwide release).

You seriously think my whole post is a load of crap? Do some research before making statements like that.

My facts? Where are your facts? With that kind of reasoning you may as well say that addons and user missions helps the piracy scene since anyone can download and use them.

I can't put a link to a pirated version of ArmA .

WTF has this got to do with addons and missions? I'm talking about something which makes a game playable for those who can't speak Czech/German.

BTW, you don't have many posts, did you sign up just to argue and start flame wars? Because this is the only time I have seen you here.

[INNOCENT&CLUELESS 0]

Yup, that was why I wanted to have some stickies in another 1-2 threads which is closed so that someone from BI would be able to find my offers & proposals again. Here you have to repeat again and again the same things:

Me: I have the right to ask for a bug free product, and if the supplier is not really able to deliver I take the right to make proposals for solving this issue

Some Others: No, you don`t, you have to wait and feel happy if BI would fix it

This would never come to a common agreement.

So how could we proceed? And btw since nobody from your side could solve it, only BI, I am not interested in your opinion really, I would like to know what BI has to say to:

Quote[/b] ]So again, my request to BI:

Public BTS:

- Should I forget it forever or

- is it delayed after 505 release or

- can we start with it now by trying to keep as much as possible work away from BI?

Documentation:

- can I forget my idea forever or

- can we go into a serious discussion about it after a certain date?

Is that focused enough?

My 100% dedication is ensured and I guess I can also talk for boecko.

Which is a better suggestion then sit and wait I guess

[raedor 8]

Suma answered you two or three times, so you better stop asking the same questions all the day. If you're not able to find it yourself, here is the answer again:

Quote[/b] ]1) Selling documentation

While this might be possible, I am not convinced it would work commercially. There seems to be too little people willing to pay for a thing like this. Moreover, creating it would delay us from our primary goal, i.e. developing games. I think Wiki approach will prove itself more suitable, we will be adding to it more and more information gradually, and the fact other uses will contribute as well will help a lot. Take an example of command reference, which is based on a reference XML we have provided, however it is now much more accurate and more complete. I think you are grossly underestimating the amount of work needed to transfer the raw (or sometimes even informal) knowledge into a concise documentation product.

2) Bug tracking system

This is definitely possible, however it seems to me the Wiki bug list as it is now works well enough for the purpose. The Trac you are refering to may prove useful, if I see there is a useful information in it, I will give it a try, and we shall see what may come out of this.

In addition to that, we have our own internal system, which we do not feel like opening to public, because of organizational and security reasons, and moreover, publishers tend to have their own QA and their own bug tracking systems.

And now stop asking for answers regarding to BTS and documentation from BI! If you post these questions again on these forums, you'll be awarded with PR.

[INNOCENT&CLUELESS 0]

Quote[/b] ]I will give it a try, and we shall see what may come out of this.

My further questions are related to how should this look in practice? And Suma is NOT able to read and you also not, since I replied that trac was a suggestion like bugzilla, but I found mantis the most suiting since it is the most user friendly in my opinion.

So if Suma want to give it a try, we need to discuss how a trial should look like. But is is maybe like with the turret class parameter thread, it is half answered and I should be happy with it.

[raedor 8]

And Suma is NOT able to read and you also not [...]

You're not able read, too, it seems. You're PRed until further notice.

[Chris Death 0]

I can't put a link to a pirated version of ArmA   .

WTF has this got to do with addons and missions? I'm talking about something which makes a game playable for those who can't speak Czech/German.

BTW, you don't have many posts, did you sign up just to argue and start flame wars? Because this is the only time I have seen you here.

I would not recommend you to do that.

It could lead to a ban on the forums to put

up a link to pirated version of ArmA.

Forget this theory with ArmA being more attractive

for pirated version users because of the language

patch.  

It's like accusing the brothers Wright for 9/11.

Ppl who use only pirated software and don't tend

to buy a game in shops have no relation to a language

patch.

Once the 505 release happens they would have downloaded

this version anyways.

We should stop here talking about pirated version as it's

against the forum rules to do so.

And to those who believe the customer is king:

Just because AI isn't doing what you want or because a

flying physics of helicopters doesn't fit to your expectations

or whatever gameplay bugs else do not give you rights

to expect this to be changed anyways.

If a developer thinks it's good like it is and you have bought

that already you can only say thanks to them if they

afterwards change this to your expectations.

If it's about the game not being able to run on system specs

where it should run, it's another story.

And the bugreport story is getting really boring now.

It seems that the BIKI is doing it's job and BI decided to use

it - so what's the point in instantly bothering them to change

that if they have other things to do at the moment.

Suma already said that he will give it a try if it proves useful

and off course once he gets some time left to it.

If you don't accept this and don't stop pointing BI onto

a new bugreporting way, you will make them too getting

bored so they'll loose any interest in this.

Or they would probably search and search to only show

you why they're not going to use this finally.

~S~ CD

[Maddmatt 1]

I would not recommend you to do that.

It could lead to a ban on the forums to put

up a link to pirated version of ArmA.

That's exactly why I said I can't . I know it's against forum rules, and the devs would probably prefer it if this discussion didn't happen here. I was just saying that the english patch is being distributed along with the pirated versions of the game.

[boecko 0]

@raedor

Haven't you been the guy who started this BTS discussion somehow again?

Quote from raedor on the german armed-assault.de page in a thread about the sinking popularity of ArmA.

google-translated

Quote[/b] ]

There will be no bugtacker. We can't change it, unless you set one up.

We did... an now we are here.

Funny, isn't it?

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Quote from raedor on the german armed-assault.de page in a thread about the sinking popularity of ArmA.

It´s a written rule not to debate things happening on other boards here. This is the BIS board. We know what you are asking for by now and banging your head against the wall won´t change much right now.

Why don´t you just back off for a while and come in again when BIS actually has the time AND the willingness to take an indepth look at your suggestions. There have already been official answers to your questions. If you´re not happy with them it´s your problem but please spare the BIS forum community from your endless, repeating and pointless loops.

There are times where you simply have to show some patience if you want to put through your ideas. Right now this endless ranting has reached a level where it simply pisses off a lot of people. While the initiative is good you certainly have to work on your PR abilities.

[boecko 0]

@Balschoiw

About the "crossposting":

Ok sorry.. but it helps a lot to clarify things about my regained motivation on the topic. I didn't talk about it for 2-3 weeks after my first suggestion.

About my PR abilities:

That's what i have in common with BIS

Oh.. when a PR-Guy is listening:

Your link to the official de-support-forum is wrong for about 1-2 month

http://www.armedassault.com/support.html

http://www.arma-game.de/ links back to http://www.armedassault.com/

[Chris Death 0]

I would not recommend you to do that.

It could lead to a ban on the forums to put

up a link to pirated version of ArmA.

That's exactly why I said I can't . I know it's against forum rules, and the devs would probably prefer it if this discussion didn't happen here. I was just saying that the english patch is being distributed along with the pirated versions of the game.

humm - somehow i've read: 'i can put a link up' lol

But you didn't say it's being distributed with the english

patch - more you said that the english patch is forcing

ppl to use pirated software - maybe you tried to turn the

wheel afterwards into summit like it being distributed that

way.

However - i hope we can come to the conclusion that an

english patch is not the source of evil to make pirated

software happen.

~S~ CD

[Maddmatt 1]

humm - somehow i've read: 'i can put a link up' lol

But you didn't say it's being distributed with the english

patch - more you said that the english patch is forcing

ppl to use pirated software - maybe you tried to turn the

wheel afterwards into summit like it being distributed that

way.

However - i hope we can come to the conclusion that an

english patch is not the source of evil to make pirated

software happen.

~S~ CD

English patch forcing people to use pirated software? No, obviously you can buy it and patch that. It's just that pirates are making use of the fact that they can pirate and play the game in English way before the release.

I'm not completely against the English patch, but it's still making pirates' lives easier.

[Chris Death 0]

English patch forcing people to use pirated software? No, obviously you can buy it and patch that. It's just that pirates are making use of the fact that they can pirate and play the game in English way before the release.

I'm not completely against the English patch, but it's still making pirates' lives easier.

Well and so do computers or if you want turn back the

wheel of time: when first human found out how to

make fire.  

Don't you get that it's a little bit square head thinking (no

offense meant) what you saying here.

Something can be stolen because it exists.

So if it wouldn't exist it couldn't get stolen.

The thieves would now have to find something

else to steal but i doubt they'd have problems

with that.

I know your point is that there were less users

downloading it if it weren't available in english.

But in percent it would be the same related to

those who bought it at the end.

What you are saying: that more people use the

pirated version because of the language can only affect

those who are not willing to having payed twice for

the game to play it in their language.

If they afterwards will buy the english version i guess they

did something illegal before but it's rather a minor problem then. They wouldn't have caused any financial damage

to the developers then.

If they don't then they are thieves anyway and not customers.

'Don't give the world food so that nobody can become thick.'

The chance to steal something still doesn't make you

a thieve - only you yourself can make you a thieve.

If i found an unlocked Ferari in front of my house i wouldn't

steal it (well at least i would bring it back after some time)  

Ya know what: we should probably forbid the english language

worldwide so that there are less thieves around - just kidding

in case someone takes this serious.

~S~ CD

[Maddmatt 1]

I get your point, damn that is a big post .

Well, on Feb 16 this problem will be over. Except maybe for some Americans since they have no publisher. I just want the damn game .