character switching

[stegman 3]

The change character feature is interesting.

It will unarguably lower the realism of the game, possesing different bodies at will.

The concept of being able to swap the players model does interest me greatly. As far as i know it can't be done in OFP (if any one does know how to change the players model in OFP please let me know).

I voted number 2 (switch off) as there is no other "on the fence option".

[KaRRiLLioN 0]

For those who aren't scripters or mission makers, I can understand that it might seem to 'arcadify' the game; in reality it makes it much better.

I do very much hope that the AI is vastly improved over OFP. I can't tell you how many times I've heard one of my AI in a tank call out "12 o'clock, enemy soldier" when trying to take a territory in RTS only to have the tank never actually kill the blasted enemy soldier for one reason or another.

However, should it still have issues (or even if it doesn't) character switching would be great, I'd just quickly take control of that idiot AI, kill the enemy AI and be done with it.

As has been mentioned previously, it will also be excellent to be able to switch models in game if you want to simulate changing clothes, camo, etc. For example in a Nogova Virus mission, when a player dies and becomes a zombie you could now change the model to a zombie one, or (more realistically) if you're playing a POW mission, you escape the prison, kill a guard and steal his clothes you can switch your model to one with his clothes on. Or, you could even make a mission where you can change from a man into a donkey using Mig's Farmland pack. Hell, why stop there, make it so you can change into chickens and cows too!

Umm, ok, sorry. I got carried away.

For the single player campaign I don't think I would want to switch characters in the middle of a mission, and since it looks optional, I can't see it as ruining the immersion for me. Of course as most other scripters and mission designers can tell you, many of us lose some of that immersion anyway since while we're playing a mission we keep thinking about the nuts and bolts of how the mission was made rather than the actual mission itself, at least I find myself doing that sometimes.

[ade_mcc 0]

Used sensibly, I think its a great option to have, even if its not used for the majority of the time. For example if it was there as an option in single player campaign, then I could replay the campaign, but in a different role in some of the missions all without having to tinker with the mission code. Something like that would add great replay value without too much effort.

The second reason I like it is because I think it will really appeal to the BF/CS crowd and getting a share of that market would bring in great revenue to go in the pot for game 2. Dont like playing with the BF/CS TK'ers? Get yourself a private clan quickly.

Case closed BIS make lots of money, everybody wins.

[DBR_ONIX 0]

*Cries* Why do people keep tying OFP/ArmA to Battlefield/CS?!

They are not even remotely the same game! Well, they both have guns, but thats it

From the small video, the character switching was barely showed, I wouldn't take it as any indication of what will eb in the final game, and if it is, it very likely wont be in the campaign!

Yes, it's arcadish, but it has many posibilities, that total outweight any bad stuff it adds.. Besides, if you don't like it, don't use it..

If it's not there, someone will complain, if it's there, and not forced upon you, it pleases the people who want it, and the others can ignore it, and be equaly happy

- Ben

[Metal Heart 0]

There's even a separate key 'K' dedicated for it on the video, how is it so very unlikely that it would be used in the campaign?

[CsonkaPityu 0]

Quote[/b] ]I do very much hope that the AI is vastly improved over OFP. I can't tell you how many times I've heard one of my AI in a tank call out "12 o'clock, enemy soldier" when trying to take a territory in RTS only to have the tank never actually kill the blasted enemy soldier for one reason or another.

Scream HALT and jump into the gunners seat, no arcade there.

Quote[/b] ]However, should it still have issues (or even if it doesn't) character switching would be great, I'd just quickly take control of that idiot AI, kill the enemy AI and be done with it.

Well, this scenario is what i'd like not to happen. If the AI is dumb then so shall it be, i'll sit it out, the enemy AI is dumb too so i mightaswell call it even.

Quote[/b] ]As has been mentioned previously, it will also be excellent to be able to switch models in game if you want to simulate changing clothes, camo, etc. For example in a Nogova Virus mission, when a player dies and becomes a zombie you could now change the model to a zombie one, or (more realistically) if you're playing a POW mission, you escape the prison, kill a guard and steal his clothes you can switch your model to one with his clothes on. Or, you could even make a mission where you can change from a man into a donkey using Mig's Farmland pack. Hell, why stop there, make it so you can change into chickens and cows too!

None of those scenarios are too realistic. Kill a guard, ok.. steal his clothes, think real for a second how'd you do that? I mean ok there's even a GI Joe mod out there so i guess these B class action movie scenarios are good for them, but i would like them not to be in the main game. Never touched any mod that is fantasy, but if that's your fancy who am i to judge?

Quote[/b] ]For the single player campaign I don't think I would want to switch characters in the middle of a mission

Yea well thats pretty much what happens in the video, and "optional" doesn't apply if you have to switch to a tank gunner or get stomped by t72s (a possibility i fear).

I can't see this feature utilized for anything that's even remotely realistic in a combat envirioment. Thats why i dislike it, cause i see arma drifting the other direction, towards game instead of realism - realism made the game unique, if thats gone then the game is nothing special - down right ugly - mightaswell play ghost recon: arcade warfighter, it has bigger explosions.

[nubbin77 0]

If you guys hate this SOO much, just rip the letter "k" out of your keyboard when you get the game . That way you will never see this "OPTION."

You guys are so worked up over something that (at least it appears this way to me), will only be an added feature, not a requirement.

[crashdome 3]

Please excuse my ignorance if this is incorrect, but with the inclusion of Join-In-Progress, isn't this just like an instant version of 1)Leave game 2) rejoin and pick new guy

All it does is make it take less time.

For team vs. team games, I can certainly see how it could become a 'cheat' (i.e. TKing, etc..) ...with that in mind do you really think BIS would NOT know about that and NOT make it preventable?

o ye of little faith....

[Edit] i would just like to add that OFP already (in a crude way) has the ability to jump in as a new unit... it's called group respawn.

To limit OFP because this option is 'unrealistic' is just plain stupid, because guys like me will go out and find a way to break those limits and make it an option.

[CsonkaPityu 0]

Lots of things are optional, like you don't have to collect the coins in Mario games, they just help you, noone forces you to get them.

[KaRRiLLioN 0]

@CsonkaPityu, my illustration with the AI tank is not one where I am actually in the tank; rather my tank is completely controlled by AI and across the island somewhere. I would find it infinitely convenient to take control and blast the errant enemy AI. If, however, Arma AI is improved then there may be no need for it. I find it happens a lot in RTS games when an enemy soldier is lying prone on a slight downslope and my tank is above it and is too stupid to go down the hill a little to engage the enemy even with engage at will on.

As for 'B' rated movies retaining sole ownership of stealing someones clothes or changing clothes at all during a mission, I don't think that's the case. As someone else pointed out it would also be useful to change into different camo if the mission called for it.

Being a scripter, I've made tons of different kinds of missions, from realistic to races, to zany and even zombie missions all to keep a little flavour in a game that is finally growing stale over the years so any additional tools I have at my disposal are most welcome.

[Spoock 3]

I can´t vote for this absurd poll

Switching in ArmA is clever system. You can switch or not - only your choice

my tip for turn off this function:

DELETE key in options which have SWITCH FUNCTION

[klavan 0]

The switching thing is a great opportunity for mission makers: i can't remember how many times someone (me included) opened a thread at the OFPEC asking if there's a way to change the player model and side, without anyone bitching and moaning about how many archadish such feature would have be but all praying for the day a script hero would had find a solution.

As for the SP campaign that will be part of ArmA, well, the SP campaign that came along with OFP was all but realistic altough i recognize it succeed to get the player in the "right mood". The best missions/campaigns we played in OFP was made by the community and i'm sure the same will happen for ArmA.

Try to think about the already mighty Abandoned Armies by Thobson with the switching thing.....

Klavan

[Daniel 0]

@spoock

A lot of the discussion is based on whether missions depend in the feature in order to be completed. Personally, I think it might have just been a method of showing all aspects of the game through a tech demo.

[Metal Heart 0]

Quote[/b] ]Personally, I think it might have just been a method of showing all aspects of the game through a tech demo.

If that were true there probably wouldn't be dialog with picture and nice camera scripts to go with it.

[Daniel 0]

Maybe. But then, how hard would that be to make?

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

I just don't want the stupid astral-projection "swooshing" effect that lends some twisted credit to one of the most stupid gimmicks to ever find itself in a tac-shooter (i.e., "not-so-hot-swapping").

You could "hot-swap" in Rainbow Six games with the touch of a button. No need to show the camera floating from one to the other. Just switch, already!

Personally, I like the realism of being stuck in a single pair of boots.

"Hot-swapping" is for a so-called tac-shooter where the A.I. doesn't do its job, necessitating the player's intervention. This does not describe any version of OFP.

[sirex 0]

i dont think it'll detract form the gameplay to switch charectors. Once the half a second switch is done your back to the immersion again, so its no big deal.

and it does work well in other games. really. it does.

[stegman 3]

...what happens when you leave the soldier model and go to a tanker? Is the soldier invincable? if he dies are we stuck with out him and unable to finish the mission?

What if you die as the tank gunner? Will you respawn as the sniper?

I don't like the idea of swapping roles in the field, (they might get dirty..)

I do like the idea of swapping the character model durring play though. I had an idea to create a kind of RPG eliment;eg the player gains 'exp points' and gets promoted from rookie to private and eventually to an officer but couldn't do this in OFP. ArmA might solve my problem.

[maxqubit 1]

As an option i don't mind. But i think switching will reduce the feeling of being 'immersed' which is an aspect i like very much in OFP:E.

[ZIKAN 0]

I voted yes. I dont have a problem with it being used in single player. I dont think it will work for all single player missions however.

Im thinking that during a certain kind of mission (combined units working together?) there is a potential for lots of stuff going off, that you may otherwise miss if you were just an infantryman, tanker, pilot etc with one role. Instead of having one mission played in one role this could increase the scope and immersion of any task you have to fullfill as the player.

But i guess we will just have to wait and see...

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

I shall repeat myself. You wont be able to switch soldier, unless you allready finished the singleplayer mission. (I dont think it will be in the campaign). Anyway, lets wait and see, im pretty sure we will have some info on this very soon

[stegman 3]

...You wont be able to switch soldier, unless you allready finished the singleplayer mission. (I dont think it will be in the campaign)...

What are you basing this on?

[h - 169]

If that were true there probably wouldn't be dialog with picture and nice camera scripts to go with it.

So based on this there should not be any in-game GUIs at all since they're all made with dialogs..

Coded in the resource.bin (.cpp, from now on referenced as resource..)..

Everything, including the mission editor..

Let's look at this calmly and logically..

(didn't check out if someone had posted this 'argument' already..)

This same kind of dialog would be possible in OFP even now, coded in the resource and clicking on buttons a camera would target a specified unit (no need to code it in description.ext)..

Of course the units would need to be pre-defined in the mission editor/init.sqs etc..

The best example of similar kind of dialog already in OFP is the FDF Mod's Sanla, the transmitter device in which you punch in map coords and other data and press 'send' to get arty on the specified location.. The Sanla dialog is done in the resource and it executes scripts from elsewhere in the mod structure..

So:

The whole switching dialog in ArmA is very likely coded in the resource, and the camera script is 'attached' into the dialog buttons..

Some additonal hardcoded etc. stuff is probably added to the resource 'language' to make this work..

Then, you most likely have an entry in the unit placing menu (in the mission editor), something like 'switchable to' which you can tick for yes if you want that unit to be switchable to (and it might even be limited in 3 switchable to units per mission)..

If one or more units have been ok'd for switching it makes the switching dialog appear in-game if you press (the now so infamous and dreaded) 'K'..

Then you most likely have even scripting commands corresponding this 'switchable to' value, probably something like:

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">unit switchableTo true/false

So you can then use scripting to able the swithcing later in the mission, or even use the already existing cadetMode command to able the switching only when using cadet mode, and so on..

As for the actual question at hand (which seems to escape me completely):

This is welcome addition to the game..

As for BIS using it as a 'forced upon' method in the campaign I really doubt since BIS aren't complete retards but quite the opposite..

It might be available in the campaign so that when you finish a mission you can re-play the mission as a different character if you want to, like some people already have speculated..

Or it's not used in the campaign at all, which would make more sense..

It's most likely available in SP missions from the start so you can choose the character you play as in the beginning or it becomes available as the mission progresses (like the video etc. screenshots) suggests..

[lwlooz 0]

Or as I think it is a dialog in the description.ext specially done for that mission and you have the ability to bind script code to keyboard keys and there is a "switchUnit" command. The only thing that backs that up is that the way the dialog is done it maximally allows for 3 chaps to be switched to. Its probably a hardcoded thing like you describe it,but one can dream

[deanosbeano 0]

it has been done already your right, almost a year ago, but because all this is speculation as to wether its in or not lets cool down.:)

p.s theres one thing nobody is mentioning when it was done in ofp, after you switched character the ai that replaced the one you switched from ,was thick as a brick. this feature "as shown", and all this is pure speculation remember.wouldnt work cause the guy you switched from would just stand and say hmmm what now.and last i played ofp:elite which this game is based on the ai was not clever enough to convince me. but its all based on a vid so lets wait and see

pls respect others views , we are only voicing an opinion, we are all entitled to do thatwithout the flame baiting if you aint got an opinon then simply vote.