Is BIS using Ageia

[Ronin Warrior 0]

There is a new technology being implemented in some of the newest games coming to market. It is(as far as I can tell) in the form of an addon card that will greatly improve phsyics handling in PC applications.

This "phsyics" card would allow games to take on a whole new level of realism by giving the game things like: rain that splashes off of objects in game and even forming puddles.

Completely destroyable environments. Realistic Wind and smoke effects. Improved bullet vs. armor effects. And pretty much anything else that involves immense physics calculations!

Alot of the things I just named are some of the requested things I have read concerning what people would like to see in future games from BIS, but is said to be impossible due to CPU/GPU limitations. These new card will handle all of the physics calculations of a game, freeing up the CPU/GPU to concentrate on things like lighting and textures and such. From what I can tell so far these cards alone will be able to handle way more mathematical calculations than the best CPU's on the market. The technology is currently available from Ageia, and will be available on the market Q1 2006.

Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter(PC) will prolly be the first game I will play that uses this new technology, which is scheduled for release Q1 2006. I am of the opinion that once this game is released and peolpe get a taste of this new technology, there will be no turning back, and any game that is released in the future will have to have this capability if it expects to survive in the market.

So my question is: Will BIS be using these Ageia PhysX processors in their future games?

If anyone wants to read more about these cards or get a quick peek at what they are capable of heres a link to their homepage. Ageia PhysX Homepage

[Fork122 0]

You probably should have searched

Already a discussion about this in the NGPCG Board.

[Ronin Warrior 0]

You probably should have searched

Already a discussion about this in the NGPCG Board.

Only read in Armed Assault forum. I don't read much about games that aren't gonna be released in the next 2 years lol.

My bad, Mods close this if you feel it's double posting or W/E.

[Dwarden 1125]

IN czech game magazine reviews is mentioned ODE because it's open source and BIS can do whatever they want ...

also take in mind HAVOK decided to use GPU instead of special PPU card ...

so in the end ODE seems to be best way as everyone got CPU (and You can write own code for ODE to utilize GPU and PPU)

plus with ODE You are not bound by any SDK / licence limits ...

[llauma 0]

Ageia sounds cool but the chances are bigger that it will disappear without a trace than that it becomes a commonly used device like graphics cards are today.

My guess is that it's really hyped by the developers. As the card runs the PhysX engine you can't compair it to other devices. It's highly optimized to do some certain tasks which AGEIA decides. The question is also how will a game which uses the PhysX engine behave for those without the PhysX Processor? My guess would be that it would look quite bad which would force the gamers to buy the processor.

BIS also appears to have a policy of making everything they need by themselves so I really doubt that they would pay for a licence and be stuck with a physics engine developed by others.

[tug2000 0]

PhysX has a software interface the same as Havok. But will use the card only if you have one.

The experience shouldn't be massively worse for physics, but means you have more CPU power for other things.

[Ronin Warrior 0]

Ageia sounds cool but the chances are bigger that it will disappear without a trace than that it becomes a commonly used device like graphics cards are today.

Considering the companies that have so far agreed to use this technology in big-name upcoming games(Ubi,Unreal) I really doubt that this technology fill fade into the backround. This does not replace any existing technologies, it is a complement to them. Why any future gamer would not want a sepperate card to handle all the physics would be beyond my comprehension, as the capabilities of a system like this would greatly improve the way games are made.

No more will you hear from devs "We would like to put that in our game, but the strain on the CPU/GPU would be too great", which is a statement I have been hearing from game devs for far too long now.

Quote[/b] ]BIS also appears to have a policy of making everything they need by themselves so I really doubt that they would pay for a licence and be stuck with a physics engine developed by others.

As far as I know BIS doesn't make their own graphics cards or CPU's, however they still code their game to be compatible with these things. If BIS wants realism in their games they are eventually going to have to use a fully implemented physics engine, one way or another. Some of the biggest problems/bugs I've seen in OFP have a lot to do with the handling of phsyics, i.e. collision, realistic weather effects, realistic bullet vs. armor effects, dust and smoke effects, correct flight simulation, just to name a few.

Now, while BIS has brought a whole new dimension to gaming in the past with superior A.I., and in the present with streaming maps, I have seen no great improvements in their ability to handle the affore mentioned things. The main reason being that there are no CPU/GPU combinations available to handle those kinds of calculations. So unless BIS plans to make their own PPU, I believe they will fall far behind the new games of this genre coming to market.

As far as making a game that all configurations will be able to play, I believe the way that BIS handles this is by allowing the user to set the level of detail and drawing distances and such to his own needs. Using this technology BIS can still continue to operate in the same manner, i.e. you won't have to buy this card to play the game, but it will greatly improve the game if you have it. Besides, it usually is a new game that requires the latest graphics card to play it that forces most of us to upgrade our crappy old machines anyway. There was a time when almost all new games caused you to buy the very latest graphics cards to play it, and that is one of the things that makes the PC gaming industry the best(IMO); New technology = propogation of better games = propagation of new technology.

[kegetys 2]

No more will you hear from devs "We would like to put that in our game, but the strain on the CPU/GPU would be too great", which is a statement I have been hearing from game devs for far too long now.

I think its more like "We would like to put that in our game, but the publisher says the game must be ready in X months so there isn't enough time"

[Migebuff 0]

Quote[/b] ]BIS also appears to have a policy of making everything they need by themselves so I really doubt that they would pay for a licence and be stuck with a physics engine developed by others.

Thats not true, for example they bought the Marx Cryptobox software to protect VBS1, and I think OË› or Visitor wasn't made by BIS, but Im not sure.

[Scrub 0]

Quote[/b] ]so in the end ODE seems to be best way as everyone got CPU (and You can write own code for ODE to utilize GPU and PPU)

That pretty much cinched-up that question mark for me.

Thanks!

[ziiip 1]

John Carmack said that that technology is a dead end.

[bn880 5]

No more will you hear from devs "We would like to put that in our game, but the strain on the CPU/GPU would be too great", which is a statement I have been hearing from game devs for far too long now.

I think its more like "We would like to put that in our game, but the publisher says the game must be ready in X months so there isn't enough time"

Well yes and no, there are some companies who would have the time to add certain physics calculations, but it just is too expensive CPU wise. BIS has been there many times I'm sure. Of course as soon as even a physics processor comes out, game companies will start to abuse them with shitty code, so all games will still run at about the same FPS just with a few more features.

What I'd like to see in game development is for developers to ensure they don't exceed minimum FPS requirements no matter what. I would prefer lower quality XYZ just to be able to see WTH is going on instead of a 10FPS slideshow. To me some of the titles that come out just aren't reasonable. Nice features, nice shinystuff, but it won't play smoothly until it's old...

[JdB 151]

and I think OË› or Visitor wasn't made by BIS, but Im not sure.

As has been mentioned before, all tools needed to develop the BIS games are made by BIS. The software/firmware for dongles was purchased, but BIS themselves made FADE, so they'll only purchase something when they haven't got the time to develop it themselves.

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

Both o2 and visitor was made by BIS... But im pretty sure Fade was made by codies.

[JdB 151]

But im pretty sure Fade was made by codies.

As far as I know, it has only ever been used on OFP, and it seems unlikely that such a technology isn't present in more CM products if they indeed made it...

[echo1 0]

The physics card will be like graphics cards. They'll start off as an overpriced and pretty unnecessary item that will make the latest games run slightly better. Then game developers will start doing more impressive things with them. Then they'll become essential and by Christmas 2015 every computer nut will have two massive physics cards that take up two slots and have fans that sound like turbines in their computer so they can run Half Life 3....

EDIT: If ATi or nVidia had half a brain between them, they'd design their own PPUs and integrate them into their Graphics Cards

[Scrub 0]

Or the CELL chip format will just crush all compitition, as it has generic 'on demand' processors (which will be maxed at all times by inefficient code, and development ) and future expandability.

[berghoff 11]

Quote[/b] ]EDIT: If ATi or nVidia had half a brain between them, they'd design their own PPUs and integrate them into their Graphics Cards

There was an article about it somewhere that ATi was planning this.

[Dwarden 1125]

Quote[/b] ]EDIT: If ATi or nVidia had half a brain between them, they'd design their own PPUs and integrate them into their Graphics Cards

There was an article about it somewhere that ATi was planning this.

ATI already supporting this with theirs X1xxx series of card ...

Also HAVOK annouced they going to use modern GPUs shader procesing power as response to AGEIAs PPUs ....

[meio_maluco 1]

Why phisics cards, just go to development at nvidia and learn more about General Porpose Programing on GPU, basicly it means that GPUs are way better than GPU´s, in terms of speed, databandwith, lowcost, etc etc, though their harder to be programed.

What im saying u dont need a phisics card, u need better programed phisics.

The future of computer processing is on GPU´s not on CPU, cpu will eventualy disapear.

So i think paying for a phisics card on future wont be option, the evolution of game programming is the option.

[Dwarden 1125]

CPUs are unlikely to dissapear .... GPUs are still and will be for long time for specialised processing ...

even ATI's unified shader architecture can't exchange CPUs ...

[Antichrist 0]

I am sort of worried about those PhysX cards at the moment. We were promised PhysX cards and many games with PhysX support by this Xmas, but that never happened. And as far as i know and remember nobody mentioned PhysX cards in any press releases or official statements in last 2-3 months.

[Dwarden 1125]

ASUS announced they delay PPU cards till there are enough PPU supporting games on market (in other words till Unreal Engine 3 games are released (like UT2007)...)

i think PPU from Ageia got only chance to spread if some 'cheaper' version is added on mainboards ...

[Ghost 40]

Will Armed assault utilize the PhysX system? Would it be possible to have an update that would?

[Guest Ti0n3r]

Quote[/b] ]Will Armed assault utilize the PhysX system?

Negative.