Mi-8/17 Pack - Beta 2

[Gordy 0]

This means the thread can be locked now, doesn't it?

[.COMmunist 0]

I can understand both sides of this argument. But I think we all should simply understand the meaning of the word FREEWARE. I belive that when addonmakers use someone else's work they CAN (if they wish) give credit, but don't have to. It is their choice. If you feel that it is important to do that, than do it. If you don't care, than don't do it. It is your choice. Arguing about personal preferences is useless. How many times you asked Vit to do what you feel is right? Many times. He doesn't want to do it. So, what's the point of trying to MAKE people see it your way if they just don't give a shit. Kyle has a point when he says that many addonmakers do this just for their own ego. If you are saying that you make addons "for the community", than why whould you care so much about what the "community" does with your work? You donated it to the community, so let community decide what to do with it. It is like donating blood to the red cross, and telling them that they could only give it to white people, no blacks or asians. You can't change Vit's approach to this matter, so let it go. You make addons your way and he makes it his way. Who is right? Who knows, it's a freeware and you can do with it whatever you feel like. Just arguing for the sake of arguing is so childish. When Vit asked one of the most bitching guys what did he actually stolen from him personaly, the guys answered "my motivation" For fuck sake, it sounded so much like my bitching girlfriend! I wonder if it is her talking on this forum (have to ask her tonight)

[xnodunitx 0]

Yeah but the biggest reason for this arguement is the continuality,every addon maker I'm sure one time or another has taken somebodies work,I remember I was working on upgrading the mammoth tank when I had zip for modelling skills so I borrowed the M1A2SEP tread roller and forgot to ask,had a nice small debate with KH but we got things settled,nobody got hurt and I learned my lesson,everybody eventually will run into a thing like this,but the question is will they turn their back and continue to make the same mistakes or will they turn around and create stuff for theirself,I'v been modellin for a bit now and I have to say,a pretty good amount of joy comes from it and you can feel proud that you created it yourself (some people may help,then ya just give em credit).

[sanctuary 19]

Maybe more clear words from someone :

-->Click me<--

Solution that involve less than 1 minute of work (a copy/paste in a text file) has already been suggested, if Vit does not care , no surprise other addon makers will not be friendly with him anymore.

[DB-ERAUPilot 0]

I'm sorry but some of you guys REALLY need to get over yourselves..I mean seriously OFP is a game...all this "I put over 50 hours of effort" bs is down right funny to be honest...cry me a freakin river...for one, NO ONE forced you to make addons you chose to...from day one..you knew you weren't gonna be paid to do them..BIS cleared that up from day one..so the argument of "their doing it in their own free time free of charge" has absolutely no basis..and before someone says you don't know what its like...I am an addon maker from the FS2004 community and I'm 100% sure that my effort has been used without my "oking" it on numerous occasions but I know that no matter how much effort I put into something it still doesn't even come close to the amount of work Microsoft or in this case BIS has put into it. If your complaining about putting 50 hrs of effort into ANYTHING you really need to learn what the phrase "hard work" means. If you enjoy making addons for the simple pleasure of doing it...I highly doubt seeing your work modified..into something that could be even better is really the problem..if you hoping that your work will get u a job with BIS or Codemasters or whoever..atleast be honest about it and say it all this "your killing my motivation" is laughable..if its that serious STOP MAKING ADDONS all this bitchin, complain and accussing has gotten old in a hurry....

[W0lle 1050]

My 2 cents before the topic gets locked and I'll make it short:

Thanks dear community for pushing another "addonmaker" out. As if the community doesn't gets smaller and smaller each week

Yes, Vit using other peoples work for his addon. From what I see he never mentioned somewhere that it is his work. So let's see what he did?

[sarcasm]He forgot to mention everyone and everything in his readme, that's bad yes, it's almost the same then stealing other peoples work.[/sarcasm]

You now can start throwing stones after me too if you wish, but IMHO Vit at least tried to release stuff for the community. We could discuss forever if his addons are usefull for everyone or not. For me some of them are.

The fact he forgot to thank everyone or give proper credit in his readme's doesn't justify the recent reactions here.

Sad but true, in this more and more shrinking community the remaining people spend more time with fighting and complaining instead of working together as best as they can.

Vit shared his work since years and for that I personally be grateful. It's a shame that the community lost another person this way

[offtime 0]

when real addonmakers will left ofp, Vit will not have anymore "parts suppliers" for his greate addons. Ofp community will die permamently.

so respecting will of ppl that actualy can make something from scratch should be priority for everyone.

if you dont understand that

then maybe understand this:

By respecting will of addonmaker that doesnt want his work to be reworked by others, you show him how much you appreciate that he made this free addon for your pleshure.

By sayng, f*** his will, lets make out of it another addon is disrespectfull.

And reasons why addonmaker doesnt want hes work to be reworked by others, is his private matter.

And noone can judge such addonmaker, he made addon for free, for your pleshure, try to respect that.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

when real addonmakers will left ofp, Vit will not have anymore "parts suppliers" for his greate addons. Ofp community will die permamently.

so respecting will of ppl that actualy can make something from scratch should be priority for everyone.

if you dont understand that

then maybe understand this:

By respecting will of addonmaker that doesnt want his work to be reworked by others, you show him how much you appreciate that he made this free addon for your pleshure.

By sayng, f*** his will, lets make out of it another addon is disrespectfull.

And reasons why addonmaker doesnt want hes work to be reworked by others, is his private matter.

And noone can judge such addonmaker, he made addon for free, for your pleshure, try to respect that.

Most addonmakers don't need to do that to be respected, the community allready respects them for what they contribute...

[DKM Jaguar 0]

I'm not going to attack Vit, and nothing I say is aimed at him. All the points to be made have been.

I will however try to help a few people understand why Addon makers care.

Let's start with the basics:

It IS freeware. OK, we got that. But when did anyone say "hey, this stuff is free, do whatever you feel like with it"? Yes, it's free, which is even more reason why you should respect the person's wishes who made it. They don't ask for ANYTHING other than credits. If they also add into their readme "a condition of using this addon is that you don't edit it" then what does it cost you to abide by that? The one thing they ask of you, and you can't do it?

If it was "A condition of downloading this addon is you don't import it to VBS" I bet you'd be up for that..

You can say "well you don't like it, don't release it", but no. If you don't like the conditions attached to an addon, DON'T DOWNLOAD it. Why deprive the many because the few are too short sighted and self obsessed as to have to deface others' work?

I never thought this community would deteriate to the point that comments like Shashman's and kyle's would be seen. It's actually become so bad that it's almost a crime for an addon maker to put their name on their work. We must go without praise, we must be anonymous, we can't even expect the mere thanks from people who we ask nothing else of. OK, that's fair. I think not.

No one made us take up addon making, but I know that this community would have died long, long ago without addon makers, so when it comes to being asked to simply NOT do something, it is too much for you. That's greatful.

Once upon a time when this community was worth something, an addon maker would be able to be proud of their work without any hassle, and that work was of a susbtantially lower quality than they are today.

You may not be able to tell the difference between wrong and right, and that is your problem.

Taking an addon and releasing parts of it without even asking, attempting to ask, or giving proper credit is wrong.

You don't care if someone uses your work? Because of this, I, and the many, many other addon makers are also only allowed to beleive this? Well ok, as your my boss and giving me my orders, please send me my pay check. Thanks.

I can't help but notice those opposed to actually thanking addon makers for their work are mostly not addon makers themselves. They're also the kind of people who want to download addons without reading who they're by, becuase they just want addons to satisfy their selves. These are also the people who say that it's ok for addons to be ripped apart, because as long as they get their addons, who gives a shit about the addon makers?

Quote[/b] ]If you don't like it, don't release your work

Trust me, every time this stuff comes up I get closer to it. Who is pushing who out of the community? My motivation for addon making is 2 things. 95% is that I want to TRY to deliver a high-quality addon to the community (The C-130s for example: if I was in it for myself I would have stopped working on it becuase it was useable for myself. Instead I work on it, and ask others to assist me in improving it, hence the long development time becuase I want to make them as good as possible for the community). I want people to enjoy my work. But the other 5% is that I of course want to get feedback, good and bad, on my addon. How can I do this, and improve it, if the feedback isn't coming to me? I don't want to be forgotten as the addon maker, can't deal with that?

[Major Gripe 0]

I never thought this community would deteriate to the point that comments like Shashman's and kyle's would be seen. It's actually become so bad that it's almost a crime for an addon maker to put their name on their work. We must go without praise, we must be anonymous, we can't even expect the mere thanks from people who we ask nothing else of. OK, that's fair. I think not.

What kind of nonsense is that?!! You read through the comments of most released addons and quite a few un-released addons and people seem to be exceedingly grateful and complimentary. Read the new footmunch release thread for his merlin and backfire, as kylesarnik pointed out the comments verge on hero worship!! Look at the thread for your C-130, the comments in there are overwhelmingly thankful. So do not peddle such trash as the community is not appreciative of your efforts. The majority of us are in awe of anyone who can produce anything, don't let the loud voices of those few dissenters put you off.

Ontopic-ish

I know vit has had issues with crediting people in the past, but to push him out of the addonmaking community especially after supah claims that there is 'solidarity' among you is laughable and frankly incredibly petty. I understand the addonmakers complaints but people do make mistakes, c'est la vie!. Please can we put this to bed if vit agrees to try to the best of his abilities to credit others and you all are prepared to help him from now on with a clean slate.

[Kuba 0]

Most addonmakers don't need to do that to be respected

And how do you know this? You ask every one of them, and most of them answered that they don't care about it?

Propably not. So why you used word "most"?

Anyway, I don't like your attitude.

You know, I can say, that in some way i agree with you. IMHO the best situation is when addonmaker release his work in Open Source license so everyone can modify and use it. But, this its only my opinion. Addon is property of it's creator and it is up to he how it will be distributed. If he decides, to make it modificationable for evryone fine, but if he decides not to allow anyone modify it it is fine to. This is his work, and neither I, you or anyone else have right to forcing him to do anything with it.

Please dont't tell people what they can, and what they cannot do with something that is clearly theirs....

Quote[/b] ]

I know vit has had issues with crediting people in the past, but to push him out of the addonmaking community especially after supah claims that there is 'solidarity' among you is laughable and frankly incredibly petty.

But who "pushed him out"? It was his decision to stop posting, no one had forced him to do this. IMHO people rather tried to convince him to change his mind...

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Most addonmakers don't need to do that to be respected

And how do you know this? You ask every one of them, and most of them answered that they don't care about it?

Propably not. So why you used word "most"?

Anyway, I don't like your attitude.

You know, I can say, that in some way i agree with you. IMHO the best situation is when addonmaker release his work in Open Source license so everyone can modify and use it.  But, this its only my opinion. Addon is property of it's creator and it is up to he how it will be distributed. If he decides, to make it modificationable for evryone fine, but if he decides not to allow anyone modify it it is fine to. This is his work, and neither I, you or anyone else have right to forcing him to do anything with it.

Please dont't tell people what they can, and what they cannot do with something that is clearly theirs....

I know this because of the amount of praise that they recieve. Look at all of the mods and addons out there and tell me that people don't have respect for their creators...

Anyways, if someone decides to release an addon, there is nothing they can do to prevent someone from modifying it, so they shouldn't complain when someone does. Its not like anyone will get in trouble for it, and some people are going to do it and some people won't care. So arguing is pointless, you aren't going to get anything out of it. All you can do is sit there and think about a better way to enforce your "rules". Someone better lock this thread...

[Kuba 0]

Quote[/b] ]I know this because of the amount of praise that they recieve. Look at all of the mods and addons out there and tell me that people don't have respect for their creators...

So what?

If someone is well-known you can modifiy he is work, without even mentioning him because he is respected enough. But when someone is a begginner you cant modify, because he is not yet respected? This is ridiculous, dont you think? You should always respect another people work, fame has nothing to do with it.

Quote[/b] ]

Anyways, if someone decides to release an addon, there is nothing they can do to prevent someone from modifying it, so they shouldn't complain when someone does. Its not like anyone will get in trouble for it, and some people are going to do it and some people won't care. So arguing is pointless, you aren't going to get anything out of it. All you can do is sit there and think about a better way to enforce your "rules".

They complain (wchich is usually enough) - so addonmakers CAN do something to make their rights respected. Anyway, even if there is like you said "no way to prevent it" - does it automaticly mean that sometething wrong is good?

[DKM Jaguar 0]

Anyways, if someone decides to release an addon, there is nothing they can do to prevent someone from modifying it, so they shouldn't complain when someone does.

There are a lot of things which can't be "prevented", we can point out to the community which people think it is ok to take someone's work and sponge off their talent, however. You say that addon makers are only in it for fame, what is the guy who takes another person's work and plasters their name over it doing it for? Not for their enjoyment of addon making, as they did next to nothing.

This is the big flaw: you might not care that someone releases your work. Others do, why should your view be respected over theirs?

Quote[/b] ]You read through the comments of most released addons and quite a few un-released addons and people seem to be exceedingly grateful and complimentary. Read the new footmunch release thread for his merlin and backfire, as kylesarnik pointed out the comments verge on hero worship!! Look at the thread for your C-130, the comments in there are overwhelmingly thankful. So do not peddle such trash as the community is not appreciative of your efforts. The majority of us are in awe of anyone who can produce anything, don't let the loud voices of those few dissenters put you off.

Major Gripe, I understand your point, and I was really appreciative of the response of the community to my C-130 news. However, it seems as soon as an addon maker steps in to protect their work from being tampered with, it's out of our hands. It's a "we've got your work, now shove off" attitude.

Also another aspect is that when an addon comes out based heavily on other people's work, and it proves to be under-quality, that addon makers' work is tarnished with the work of whoever used it. The original might have been fantastic quality but because it is associated with the 2nd person's addon, immediatly their reputation suffers. I've seen this happen with DKM addons being used and seeing comments about DKM's work, despite that addon not being a DKM addon.

[Gordy 0]

Chill out guys.

If someone doesn't understand the nessesity of respecting other people's work then it is a waste of bandwidth to make them do so.

There are no greys here or special cases of coincedence. If something is not mine I will not touch that. I ask permission to do so. Clear as the Sun.

I vote for closing this thread.

I don't know if there is a point in BIS forums regulation for this but there should be at least as a proper way of conduct.

[sanctuary 19]

I don't know if there is a point in BIS forums regulation for this but there should be at least as a proper way of conduct.

As i said previously, ->click here<-

/add another vote for closing the topic

[Katar 0]

Too  bad none of the people who claim that Addon theft is a way of stroking their ego ever made a single addon. Most people who DID make something strongly disagree with you people. Maybe noone answers Vit because you have built such a nice name for yourself. Either make your own stuff or go away.

you knew what.... i dont need all this..

i work hours on hours to work on good addon..

so i dont pro like all the pepole here , so what?

i just want to crate good addon not for me !

just for all.. everybody thet ask me for somthing

form my addon

i say ok , no problem

i dont care thet pepole used some stuff thet i crate

but all the pepole here.. act like i steal and seal something thet they do

i say i wirte all the sutff i used , so now its not ok to???

LEAVE ME A ALONE!

I dont need all this!!

I start to work on the israel F-16 pack and i will always

crate new addon

p.s

and "supah","Ironsight" and all the pepole thet dont like me... i hope now you happy...

LOL!

Giving credit to people is not so hard. You should try it

[meyamoti 0]

yeah and stop usin that damn smilie so much,good grief.

[SIG21_Surgeon 0]

Ok Lads, you all should calm down right now.

This is a GAME. I know creating addons is work and the only thing you get in return is respect.

I understand why people dislike when their work is taken without giving them the respect they earn for it.

However all addons are only possible beacause of this game, wich was made by BI. Have you all asked for permission? Don't think so!

Vit is doing good quality addons. He has choosen your work to make some of em as good as he can. This is respect.

It means he likes what others have created.

At least it keeps the community alive.

I think these addons are more or less "open source" free to everyone (in fact no one could do anything about it).

A good discussion is a nice and productive thing. Keep it this way! I think Vit got the point!

Have a nice day!

[meyamoti 0]

We'll see if he did or not.

[Vit-Vit Labs 0]

Hello to everyone

I thing we need to thing of some open source license

for all the addons

MODS thet dont want somebody rip or used for there add-ons

well be protect license thet say dont to used they parts

what you say??

we write now open source license ??

everybody can used parts of other addons

but they well write in the readme  every part he take

and form where addon.

what you say?

i love to crate addon , and i used some addons parts

for other , but i do it not to thief there work

i do it bcz they do great and pro work !

i am sorry for  some pepole ,this is not the idea.

the idea to crate good and pro addons for OFP

thet everybody ebjoy it

p.s

I think to join Lost Brothers  mod

F-16C soon...

sc1 sc2 sc3

[law-giver 190]

Hi Vit

Don't worry about it. Just carry on doin what your doin. We all have the same goal here, thats to enjoy playing one of the best games in years and to improve it and keep the game alive. So what if you take a bit here and take a bit there. I don't see a problem. As long as a credit in a readme is supplied with a borrowed addon/script/texture etc. When people keep moaning and bitching then things like this will kill the game off. Addon makers are few and far between. If Vit is improving an already released addon then good on him. If people dont want their addons used then dont release them. We're an open and supposedly sharing community so lets be open and sharing. I'm 36 and still love playing flashpoint, i make missions edit configs, never made an addon. Wish i could but anyway to see this childish bitching on the forums is disheartening, the world is already a shitty place without having to moan about such trivial things as who made what and who stole what. Just enjoy the bloody game guys and thank the addon makers who are still improving this beautiful game. And remember the addon makers who have been and gone. Keep up the good work Vit. Open source license for flashpoint addons. Rubbish!

[snoops_213 75]

Ok please dont take offence VIT, i like your work and enjoy your addons, but open source license's are usually the extra shit at the end of the readme. Most people usually say if you use it credit us but go for it, some say ask first, few say NO without 100% OK by the model maker.

Having said that Vit has tried to credit people in an odd way. I think lack of understanding of english may have a small part in this aswell. But Vit you also have to stop being so naive! Noone to begin with was flaming you merely trying to point out an issue they have with useing their work without asking. How long does someone wait though? I dont know if he did try or just saying so but if no one replied then what? no use? why try to re-invent the wheel when someone has the perfect one?

Maybe there should be a thread made on AM&D? board where people can post request to use parts/models/textures from other people/mods so everyone can see they tried and after a decent amount of time release it(if you couldnt do better yourself) with credits? Why make an addon for everyone to turn around and say oh thats nice but i like the look of the inside of that one better?

Most mods are gods around here now. DKM or Footmunch for example is so good, most people do nothing but praise. If some one uses something is it because they know its the best. At this stage why release some thing that doesnt compare to the standard now? And why dont mods help each other or idividuals making stuff people want but none of the big mods have time to make? Yes you put serious time into these and we all appreciate it, but on the flip side some has something else really good/usefull/wanted and is having trouble making/texuting something(hopefull minor) then how can borrowing a perfectly working/looking/usable one hurt? You never know they may be working on something you want but counldnt make yet! Remember just a game(so i keep getting told:p )

Just my 2 cents

PS yeah they sound like my nagging G/F aswell

[Kuba 0]

Quote[/b] ]

Hi Vit

Don't worry about it. Just carry on doin what your doin. We all have the same goal here, thats to enjoy playing one of the best games in years and to improve it and keep the game alive. So what if you take a bit here and take a bit there. I don't see a problem. As long as a credit in a readme is supplied with a borrowed addon/script/texture etc.

You don't see a problem, but another peapole see. As DKM Jaguar already asked - why should your view be respected over theirs? Once again - I don't see problem too, but this only my and your opinion, dont force evryone else to think same way....

Quote[/b] ]

When people keep moaning and bitching then things like this will kill the game off. Addon makers are few and far between. If Vit is improving an already released addon then good on him.If people dont want their addons used then dont release them.

No. If you dont aceept another people will don't download their work - simple. I and most another persons from community dont't want BAS, CSLA, FDF, and many, many more great addons unrelased because few persons think that they dont need permission to use other people work.

Quote[/b] ]We're an open and supposedly sharing community so lets be open and sharing. I'm 36 and still love playing flashpoint, i make missions edit configs, never made an addon. Wish i could but anyway to see this childish bitching on the forums is disheartening, the world is already a shitty place without having to moan about such trivial things as who made what and who stole what. Just enjoy the bloody game guys and thank the addon makers who are still improving this beautiful game. And remember the addon makers who have been and gone. Keep up the good work Vit. Open source license for flashpoint addons. Rubbish!

bla bla bla

vote close topic. This discussion is pointless....

[Ironsight 1]

Vit is doing good quality addons. He has choosen your work to make some of em as good as he can. This is respect.

It means he likes what others have created.

If he would have repected the addons and the authors, he would have asked permission first or at least given credit.

Quote[/b] ]At least it keeps the community alive.

Complete disrespect for other peoples work sure keeps the community alive