Cheat and cheat prevention discussion

[sicilian 0]

CounterForce wrote:

Quote[/b] ]

the problem with the ID is not a too big problem.

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....t=41131

should disable changing of IDs

And now we have screenshots of people who can have ONE ID

You forgot all the CD-Keys which were published in the beginning of the game publication. These IDs are valid and not hacked but used by ppl all over the world!!!

No server will detect these IDs as invalid or hacked cause once a time they were sold together with a original copy ofp OFP!

Any cheater who knows how to change his ID can use one these to do what ever he wants to and therefore any screen of him while cheating is useless at all.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

look

banning an IP range will ban 1 fking block not the whole fking country get that THREW you skull

does your country have only 254 ppl in it? are there more then 1 players who play in a block? the answer is NOOOOOOOO

do the fking math ffs and dont claim I an uniteligent when you post such mylarky

Malbeauf if youre thinking about an US city street block syling you should be aware that most cities in europe and worldwide don't have blocks they're just "randomised" ie. my provider (BiHNet) changes my IP automatically upon reconnection (I use DialUp) ,even sometimes with their backup connection they reroute connections to different cities server so I don't even have to appear from the same town.

[RN Malboeuf 12]

IP block is one set if #s in xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx

has nothing to do with houses and can range any where in a country

the statment we have postest is that we will ban ip blocks meaning

66.79.180.* will be backed

there will be 256 #s banned this way and not whole cities as other will claim, they will argue the fact of how many ppl can be on that block but thats irrelient since any net work related IPs will be blaocked as well which is the whole point

most ID will be cycled out of our IP blocker with in 1 month automatically, unless we set it to forever

this will not hurt any one else playing OFP since there are simply not that many ppl playing ofp as others would sugest because they cant do simple math

[joltan 0]

I think you misunderstood the problem:

You will not ban anyone effectively by blocking a simple xxx.xxx.xxx.255 subnet as in many countries the ips are neither static nor limited to the same subnet. Actually - as others already explained - with big providers who take their ips from several completely different ip ranges and distribute them at random among all customers you'd have to ban several (!!!) xxx.255.255.255 nets to effectively keep offenders out of your server.

Doing the latter would keep an extremely high number of potential and perfectly fine players off your server. One example for this kind of IP distribution is German Telekom who provides ~90% of the DSL accounts in Germany - and thus represents the second biggest gaming community world wide... That's an awfull lot of active players considering how small the OFP online community is.

For you that may be fine, but for servers in Europe or those interested in having European players on their server it's simply not practical. And I guess there's providers in other parts of the world, too, who use the same scheme to assign ips to their customers.

In short: banning IPs may work for a few players who have static ips or get them assigned from a single subnet. For most players it won't work without severely limiting your own servers availability to the majority of good players.

Just an example for 3 ips I got assigned today (simply disconnecting and reconnecting):

217.82.243.37

84.128.174.249

217.226.158.221

Disconnecting and reconnecting took 2 seconds - and I had a new IP within a completely different IP range. While the third IP is again in the same xxx.255.255.255 range as the first you can see that they are in completely different branches of this net.

[benu 1]

Forget it, i tried to explain that to him several times, his only response was that "he does this for years so it works". I already pointed out that an automatic ip blocking tool could be exploited to DOS a server, eg one cheater from the german telekom would make the server unavailable for next to ALL GERMAN PLAYERS by just reconnicting often enough with different ips.

[Gadger 0]

Why not just create something much more manageable?

For instance, a page, or even just a thread in these forums, where players must "register" with their ingame name and player ID in order to play on a server. Now you might think this is alot of work in order to prevent cheating and not really worth the effort. However, if the banlist.txt can stop ID's within that list connecting to the server, maybe the code could be modified so only ID's in the list can connect to the server?

Now, maybe this "global banlist" could be judicated by someone prominent in the OFP community, e.g. Placebo , who would act as judge and jury, and deal with individual cases of suspected cheats or cheating

[Waterman 0]

On NFS Underground, you need to register with EA to play online with a specific account. You then have 4 spaces for different names you can use online.

Do you not think that if someone with a specific name was caught cheating, it could be traced back to their specific account and then banned by EA? If so, could a simular idea by used for OFP 2?

Sorry for going a little off topic, but it is an idea as to preventing cheating although would not be possible with ofp1 I would imagine.

[Gadger 0]

Nah Waterman, thats pretty much what I'd like to see for the remainder of OFP, even if it be a simple post in this forum, where everyone dictate their name and ID in order to be able to play on servers that follow this initative, or a complex PHP site, that tracks ip's of the id's used, and stats etc.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

I think you misunderstood the problem:

You will not ban anyone effectively by blocking a simple xxx.xxx.xxx.255 subnet as in many countries the ips are neither static nor limited to the same subnet. Actually - as others already explained - with big providers who take their ips from several completely different ip ranges and distribute them at random among all customers you'd have to ban several (!!!) xxx.255.255.255 nets to effectively keep offenders out of your server.

Doing the latter would keep an extremely high number of potential and perfectly fine players off your server. One example for this kind of IP distribution is German Telekom who provides ~90% of the DSL accounts in Germany - and thus represents the second biggest gaming community world wide... That's an awfull lot of active players considering how small the OFP online community is.

For you that may be fine, but for servers in Europe or those interested in having European players on their server it's simply not practical. And I guess there's providers in other parts of the world, too, who use the same scheme to assign ips to their customers.

In short: banning IPs may work for a few players who have static ips or get them assigned from a single subnet. For most players it won't work without severely limiting your own servers availability to the majority of good players.

Just an example for 3 ips I got assigned today (simply disconnecting and reconnecting):

217.82.243.37

84.128.174.249

217.226.158.221

Disconnecting and reconnecting took 2 seconds - and I had a new IP within a completely different IP range. While the third IP is again in the same xxx.255.255.255 range as the first you can see that they are in completely different branches of this net.

My point exactly.

[Hostilian 11]

I personally believe that certain servers should be locked and passworded.

These servers should only be accessible to those players who have given their Photo (Possibly via webcam so you cant fake it) plus their real name and address (which should be verified).

Access to this information would only be made available to those that have already provided their own details.

Then if you cheat, We know who you are and where you live!

That'll stop 'em!

#C

[NKVD 0]

nah..the idea with locked and pasw'd servers is way off...right now there aren't many people playing OFP online and it will be much less if that "locked server" rule enforced...you would have to remember all passwords and stuff - and what about noobs that dunno anything where to register/find password etc...

[benu 1]

The cheaters seem to be drawn especially to certain maps. If you don't play those you will be mostly safe from cheaters.

[Zombie_Mod 0]

Well guys, I can't believe these cheats!!

I've seen boats raining out the sky;

M1A1s spawn from nowhere (not good when you're East)

M113s moving seemingly by the power of a soldier's mind;

speed cheats;

satchel charges going off ruining the enemy spawn area..

WHY do people wait for 10-15 mins for a game to be set up, then bloody go and ruin the game?

You can't play Hexenkessel or Drop Zone CTF via the "all seeing eye" for someone cheating. I have just spent two hours of my life spent trying to get a game and it's all been wasted

Any way to combat the patched EXE's (if indeed that's what they are) ?

[Hostilian 11]

posting in the right forum this time!

I was playing CTI and was in the air in a KA50 (AA). I knew there was an enemy helicopter around but it would not show up on my radar.

All of a sudden I was hit by a couple of Heli fired missiles.. I had no idea where they came from.. I thought something was suspicious.. I was hit and killed by a player I knew to be in a chopper - I couldnt see him though.

Whilst playing recently; A player actually told me to go above 700 (Altitude) as I would be 'undetectable by radar'. I am sure that this was why I couldnt see the other chopper earlier - he must have been above 700!!

This is surely an exploit (call it what you will) that needs fixing. I would have thought that radar is most effective at height anyway.. Yes Radars have limited range, but they see things better at height and surely they shouldnt be restricted to 700 altitude (or whatever).

Is this also the case in normal OFP or other mods?

Is anyone working on a fix?

Do people see this as a cheat/exploit?

Thanks,

#C

[Blackden 0]

There is no way for avoid cheaters, many players in OFP community know how cheat without any chance to be detect.

The M1A1 in Mokra is bullshit, yep this ruin the game, but its not really important in public game.

I was admin in different OFP leagues, and i did all i could for avoid cheat in my last job, i asked to put a filechecker in all servers, we caught many guys with, but because smart cheaters know how change name files, all this work against cheaters is useless.

No way to caught a smart cheater with a filechecker.

The good cheater dont use a fake ID, he play with his real one, he dont use tank, he dont use unlimited ammo, the good cheater use an aimbot, use modified island without any tree or bush, and he use colored uniform. And if hackers have finish their last job, he play with colored target on each players in the map, even behind the wall.

I know this because during long months it was a priority for me to found something for keep a fair league, i was in the hacker forum for learn how detect a cheat, i talked with some cheaters caught, some of them sent me the files, and finally i think that against smart cheaters you cant nothing.

Us no, but BIS can give us a new patch, minus modifications, only for give hard jobs to the hackers, and as we have to wait looooong months before OFP2, please do something for give us the desire to continue this game. Thx

Black

[benu 1]

Afaik there is no cheat atm that gets past a good checkfile setting, ie one where you check for files inside the pbos like eg merged\00000.paa.

[Blackden 0]

Quote[/b] ]Afaik there is no cheat atm that gets past a good checkfile setting

In your dream, but you can believe this.

[RN Malboeuf 12]

Afaik there is no cheat atm that gets past a good checkfile setting, ie one where you check for files inside the pbos like eg merged\00000.paa.

the merged, Data, Data3d inner file checks are only 50% effective making them useless

[sicilian 0]

the merged, Data, Data3d inner file checks are only 50% effective making them useless

Nobody said they were the only ones which could contain cheats therefore they are only one part of a checkfile setting!

And it is always a question of time to setup up a strong checkfile! Many tests are necessary to confirm functionalty!

Atm there's no 100% working setup but we are still working on to get as near as possible to it.

[RN Malboeuf 12]

Afaik there is no cheat atm that gets past a good checkfile setting, ie one where you check for files inside the pbos like eg merged\00000.paa.

he said, and the fact that 50% of the inner file checks fail on these three (6 really) files means that they see red soldiers and yuo dont know about it half the time

the other files like G36a/config.cpp (not sure what it it called) ect are sexy

Atm there's no 100% working setup but we are still working on to get as near as possible to it.

you'll never beable to atain this with out BIS's help or a guy like certa

[sicilian 0]

these three (6 really) files means that they see red soldiers and yuo dont know about it half the time

Could you plz explain more detailed what you mean?

What 3 or 6 files fail? Name them. What does fail?

Why should I know it only half of the time?

Post your chkfile setup to be sure we're discussing the same.

PS.

Nobody really knows who works alone and who not.

[Blackden 0]

Last news from cheaters:

Fixed:

"Flying truck" cheat is now working.

Added:

"A10": Spawns an A-10."Disable Aiming": Other players cant

aim anymore."Boats": Boats will fall from the sky."Bunker":

Creates a huge bunker. A whole CTI-Base can fit in."Float":

Allows you to drive/walk on water."Fly": Spawns a truck

which is able to fly."Seagulllauncher": Your LAW-Launcher

can now launch Seagulls."Teleport": "Beam me up, Scotty!"

"Tower": Spawns a tower."Temple": Creates a temple. Not a

very nice temple, looks more like a pyramid."Scud": Spawns

a scud launcher."Papercar": Spawn a paper car."Guba":

Vassily Guba, also known as "The Dentist"."CTI:Delete

MHQs": Deletes both MHQs in CTI games."CTI:Destroy MHQs":

Destroys them."CTI:Teleport to WEST": Teleports you to the

West MHQ."CTI:Teleport to EAST": see above."Booster":

Activate it while driving in a vehicle. Much better than

NOS."Scan object", "Move Object", "Stop Moving": see below.

"End Mission": Not working at the moment, I was too lazy to

remove it.

And its obvious for them that we cant detect them by a file checker...

Happy game now...

[benu 1]

Except that i did already detect three of them...

[sicilian 0]

Three? They are all in one cheat, so why three benu?

[benu 1]

I detected three players using the socalled supercheat.

Blackden: do you only copy the news from the cheat sites to this forum and spread hysteria/paranoia or do you actually download the cheats, look into them, analyze how they work and try to do something against them?