ODOL Explorer v2.0

[Pathy 0]

Well ace im not the one preaching extremist beliefs about modellers having no rights whatsoever to protect thier addons, that nobody has to ask for permission to edit an addon because we are assuming addon makers arent "stuck up" enough to turn you down, then crying foul when i point out this is exactly what you said.

Want me to quote it a 3rd time?

As far as i see it, you have no modelling skill, most people find you hard to work with (lets see, out of all the people at Nomad, how many actually liked you and how many actually thought you were a bossy and lazy so and so? Well the answers in you got kicked out from the admin team....and of course that quote is an ex nomad member), yet you think you have rights to edit any model you like, and not ask for permission, and if you were to ask for permission and a modeller turned you down, its because they think your a noob and they should burn in hell.....what kind of ideas are those? Thats 100% pure crap my freind, as i said before, a modeller may have thier own updates to come, they may want to keep thier model private for abit so they can have a brief moment in the sun before people make a new version...........as soon as youve never made an addon ace, get this, addon makers work for nothing, we make our models, and the only reward we get is the thanks of people. Now if someone wants to "hoard" their model for say, a month after release, to give them thier "5 minutes of fame" if you like, thats fine by me. But you seem to think that thier entire purpose is to thwart you, how selfish can you get? Dont you appreciate how addon makers feel after theyve spent 2 months perfecting every inch of an addon? I doubt you do judging on your childlike naivety of the addon making buisness and my knowlege of your lack of addon making background.

Im sorry ace, i cant handle the fact that you think that addon makers have zero right to even give permission to use thier own addon. Everyone else in this thread can see that permission is still needed.

I quoted you exactly, i didnt warp meanings. You just keep contradicting yourself

[pzvg 0]

I do believe anything useful in this topic was wrung out a while back.

But at least we know a lot more about things we didn't really need to know.

[PhilippRauch 0]

I just read that some units for WGL had backpacks on them which couldnt be removed due to loss of the mlod models... now these can be changed again... thats good...

i think common sense in life is more important than anything else... use a knife to cut your food, do not stab someone with it....

[Acecombat 0]

Wheres p machines quote this time ? I was waiting for another one of those profanity filled remarks ....

Quote[/b] ]Well ace im not the one preaching extremist beliefs about modellers having no rights whatsoever to protect thier addons, that nobody has to ask for permission to edit an addon because we are assuming addon makers arent "stuck up" enough to turn you down, then crying foul when i point out this is exactly what you said.

Extremist beliefs? At most my opinion is liberal certainly not extremist i see it the other way round , addon makers being extremist about their models and who edits it. Reasons as to what causes that have been explained countless times i n this thread.

Quote[/b] ]As far as i see it, you have no modelling skill, most people find you hard to work with (lets see, out of all the people at Nomad, how many actually liked you and how many actually thought you were a bossy and lazy so and so? Well the answers in you got kicked out from the admin team....and of course that quote is an ex nomad member),

LOL i cant help but laugh at your childishness dude , and i thought you were one of the mature people around here , my bad. First up my modelling skills have got zlich to do with this threads debate , secondly i left Nomad due to the fact that my position as a missionmaker wasnt being utilized as they were stalled due to lack of addonmakers there. Now i can only ask myself how thats suppose to be lazy if no addons made no mod made am i to wave my mind and make something out of thin air to use in the missions Perhaps you missed the finer parts of what was happening when Anmac banned you from the opflash.org website for good. Next time try get your facts staright for once. And get over yourself please this isnt about you and me here as you are making it out to be my opinion is in general to the whole forum whos reading it not only you.

No ones patronizing you so please leave your insecurities and complexes at the door.

Quote[/b] ]a modeller may have thier own updates to come, they may want to keep thier model private for abit so they can have a brief moment in the sun before people make a new version

Their own updates have got nothing to do with the models editability please make some sense. So now your saying the whole POINT in not giving away your models is to bask in some sunshine provided by people who d/ld your stuff? Wow now thats illuminating to know how big headed people are , i thought addons were made because people liked making addons PERSONALLY (or maybe to you its a tool to be gain some 2bit popularity among the community members?) and then sharing it with others , the gratitude is a PLUS which is earned NOT EXTRACTED out or KNOTTED OUT of the people by counting out the days after your release.

Quote[/b] ]how selfish can you get?

Hilarious again how am i selfish? I am not holding back a model i made or something the ones who are selfish are those who THINK that by HOLDING back a model they can bask in some sort of virtual sunshine fest in the community. That is arrogance not vice versa. The only thing having a open source model is more fame to them as their model will be used by others and thy'll be probably helped by others to improve on it. YOUR whole argument here is futile.

Quote[/b] ]Dont you appreciate how addon makers feel after theyve spent 2 months perfecting every inch of an addon?

Yes i know how theyd feel you know i think addon makers are humans too so they'd obviously feel joy , ecstatic and relieved after completeing something theyve worked hard on. Only thing naive that would be here is to keep the edittable model back to preserve some sort of 'feel' that you gain by making a model. I guess it depends from person to person. Its a good thing that O2 and all its models are BIS copyrighted otherwise with the bigheads we have here people would be asking for royalties on there models or something

Quote[/b] ]Im sorry ace, i cant handle the fact that you think that addon makers have zero right to even give permission to use thier own addon. Everyone else in this thread can see that permission is still needed.

So it all boils down to you i guess but the thing is not everything starts and end on you thats why this tool was released and it'll hopefully be put to good use in learning and helping others improve their models. Btw Vektorboson here disagress with you on that permission thingy , because if i remember correctly hes releasing his Pilot and F117 model/addon as a edittable one , a very good and SENSIBLE choice there by him. I might also remind that his PILOT model is one of the best ofp has everseen , now perhaps you can learn from him how hs doing it and why doesnt he wants to bask in that virtual sunshine which others are so fond off.

[Pathy 0]

Ace do you enjoy making comments after not reading my posts properly or are you doing it to wind me up  

Until you bother to read them, and make proper sense of them, i am not going to bother to reply to anything more you say.

[RED 0]

I think all the ethical uses of this tool have been covered now, you are just going to have to live with it until you create an 'encoder'. Why not use this thread to talk about the tool and how to improve it (with the exception of removing the save function)

RED

[Pathy 0]

Remove the save function!

Ok well, they probably arent going to do that, and i am all for improving the tool in other ways. Because the tool itself is a good idea, and one that i supported wholeheartedly until they decided to put a save function on.....

[T J 0]

@Pathy and Ace, please take it outside, your rants at each other have no place here, better to delete and edit out all those posts.

@Benu, I guess its hard to understand exactly my perspective on this whole issue, as what is written in text can convey no sign of emotion of feeling. Im afraid I seem to have given you a wrong impression of how I really feel.

I'm not sitting here in a red mist of rage, desperately trying to discredit or tear down OdolEx. As I have repeatedly said, I have nothing to gain or lose, rather I am interested in the thought (or lack of it) that went into the release of this tool.

The discussion I hope to foster is just that, a group of people who may not share the same opinion, but who can state their opinions and ideas clearly and logically, without getting irate or resorting to name calling. As you may of figured, I'm pretty chilled, I have plenty real life issues with my family of 3 kids and wife to be more than slightly amused by anything involving a PC game.

(As for opinions of BAS contributors in other threads, they never have, and never will speak for me. Any individual speaks for himself.)

Regarding OdolEx, I have no doubt that it is a useful tool. And finally somebody posted the main advantage, that within a team, it is possible to edit and alter the distributed ODOLs, while maintaining a master copy of the MLOD at one source. We have used the tool exactly for this purpose. Also a guy pointed out the fact he was able to track down which texture produces the metallic sound. Lupus mentioned his ability to tweak his models to perfect them, and of course there is the obvious and real beauty that finally everyone can have access to BIS model MLODs without needing to ask somebody for them. And there is also the learning thing. For instance I have been asked many times "how do you do the fast roping etc etc" in the blackhawks. Not being a modeller I was unable to explain what exactly I asked the modellers to add to the model, but now they can see for themselves.

(Interestingly, in his promo pictures to advertise OdolEx, SnakeMan chose exactly this facet to present).

Undoubtedly a great tool, and one which is in my collection.

BUT, that doesnt take away the negatives, which even those vehemently proclaiming OdolEx as the new messiah of tools have documented quite clearly.

The only thing that really concerns me though, is the attitude and psyche

behind the release of the tool.

With such a groundbreaking tool, wouldn't it have been at the least, courteous to seek an opinion or approval from BIS, before even mentioning it to the community?

(After all, the commercial models in VBS1 are also now freely available)

Might it not have been polite for the WRPTool team to approach the various producers of built from scratch models, and to at least let them have their say or voice their opinion?

Would it perhaps have been more 'professional' to follow BIS example and limit the distribution of the tool in the first instance?

My concern is that the tools writers were so proud of their acheivement, that they forgot basic good manners, and decided to proceed regardless of the above points. (I really hope this whole exercise wasn't to get 'revenge' on the big teams in some way, as many comment here seem to express)

What can we learn from this? Is there a better way of doing things? In the interests of engendering mutual respect, it would be nice to see more communication, and less "one up manship".

Do we really want to be a 'community'? Or just a bunch of kids slinging opinions like mud?

TJ

[Stag 0]

Excellent post. With regard to VBS1 models, It's already been proven that BIS has Zero Tolerance for efforts to import VBS models into OFP. I forget exactly who, but acouple of months ago a member casually mentioned that he was working on a VBS model with a view to doing this. I don't know exactly what went on behind the scenes, but he almost immediately posted an apology and "resigned" from the forum (I think he's still around though).

Despite what certain people arrogantly believe, the community DOES do a good job of policing itself, and I suspect that BIS are more than capable of looking after their own interests.

[Gen.Carnage 0]

Be it as it may: this tool is imo not helping the community one bit.

So some people are happy to be able to learn better, as they claim, some addonmakers encourage the use of OE, some hate the fact that it was released with save function.

Quote[/b] ]Sigma-6

Personally, I think if any addonmakers are actually willing to quit modding for OFP over ODOL explorer, the community can only gain by losing them. Sure, if another tool comes out to encrypt addons (unlike Binarize, which was created to *optimize* them, and does it well) without any increase in optimization, then maybe four or five people will use it, so by all means, go ahead, but I have a feeling that this 'ethics' argument is already over.

Since this quote came from another, locked topic, i use it in here.

The fact that this respected addonmaker, who happens to be in favour of unprotected addons, wishes to see any addonmaker that wants to protect their work leave, speaks volumes....

how the *** does this whole argument help ofp community?

ok, so suppose anyone who has had enough of this leaves, taking all his/her expertise out of the community..

to make place for fresh blood you say? rubbish! there's enough space for anyone who wants to learn.

Howcome any topic in this community is allways regarded with UTTER disrespect for different opinions?

One says A, the other says B, the one who said A wants B to go away and die, and vice versa, and if given a chance they will end up flaming eachother to pieces.

Whoever wants to protect his work should leave? thats BS Its simply a different opinion.

There are no rights or wrongs here, one wants to protect his addons, the other doesnt mind, both sides should be able to do whatever they want, odol explorer doesnt change anything for those who dont care about protection, but it did for those who want some form of protection.

'Binarizing wasnt intended as a protection system', thats only partly true, it optimises the models, AND protected them.

Now that this feature has been rendered useless, those who want some protection will need to find another way.

No matter what anyone wants, protected addons or no, NOONE should leave over this tool beeing released, the tool simply isnt worth seeing skilled addonmakers leave!

People who encourage others to leave because of a different view on things should control themselves and try to respect other peoples wishes.

It isnt this tool that is bringing OFP community down, its the damned intolerance for eachother a lot of people are displaying.

Sigma, sorry to quote you out of context, the moderators are making reasonable discussions impossible by closing a whole thread down because some are misbehaving.

[Drill Sergeant 0]

At this point I have no clue who your talking about. At first I thought it was me.

Annnnnnnnd I thought I was the only one who was leaveing by this summer............

Have I missed something?

Now since I don't really CARE what you think of my oppinion so long as you READ it.

If this is a "learning tool" couldn't you have put in a simple o2

layout view, which would show the vertexes and such while keeping people from manipulateing or changeing there work while still viewing it? Don't say no........

Because I happen to know you could have....

You'd argue that point with what about the BIS models?

Well you could have ziped them and included them...

Was this unexpected and sudden unchallenged release of the tool rude? Yes and no.

Has anyone stolen models yet? Yes and no.

Now if we just zoom in on this fact here yes, because people will be modifying work without permission, if it's kept on ONE computer, (The computer of the user who hacked it) then it is TOTALY harmless. If it is cycled behind the scenes for

clans. We hit the grey line. THREATEING TO REALESE SOMETHING or RELEASEING something without EXCLUSIVE

permission from the Author(s) is wrong.

Are you people better off without me (assumeing I'm ONE of the addon makers youre talking about.) I don't think you can

say yes or no as you never gave me a chance to get anything

released. Yes there have been offers to skin, all of which there WAS NOT a skiner there. NO REPLYS. Or the items were

"Too High detail for mod use." Does that matter ? Yes and no.

Wheres the flood of these addons you addon makers have

been prophesing of? There welling up and will ether break the dam or dry up.

Can you give some examples of how a tool like this is BAD?

Yes and no. Look at CS, I am not throwing shit because I am not mentioning names. But I think the the OFP comunity needs

to take a look around at there read me's.

Some folks who import, there addons are almost ALWAYS

called by there name.

And after we "Elderly" OFP players have

bread SEVERAL generations of NOOBs who have been fed a

HEALTHY diet of addons and misssions, we now have a

"Generation X" to deal with. Are we mods all that stuck up?

Or maybe, no one asked.

Now I hope to clear this up because of 2 variables here.

#1 I am gone by this summer if.

A. No skiner to help me.

B. The small finshed portion of my pack which I hope to relase is stolen and or a significant amout of thefts occur.

Back to the debate. #1 There should be no debate...

The tool is not right nor is it wrong.

Bottem line is if it is atleast 95% helpful then it's ok

If theres a large amount of thefts/hacks/problems, WHICH ARE TRACED TO BE IN DIRECT RELATION TO THE TOOL.

Then it's not good.

Bottem line.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Please end the rest of this discussion QUICKLY and like ADUALTS. So we can get on with the tool discussion.

[ruff 102]

i know every1 is heated up on this

and by reading some posts, not all since theres too many

i just wanna ask that

since im just beginning to learn how to use o2 and using the odol explorer and never ever goin to release an addon

do i still need permission to edit addons for personal use?

plz every1 dont kill me on this one

[Major Fubar 0]

I'd hate to see anyone leave the OFP community over this tool, I think it would be an overreaction...

[Drill Sergeant 0]

@ Ruff it would be a VERY VERY VERY considerate gesture.

Though is it necessary? yes and no.

@ FUBAR

I was under the impression I was the only "No good" to "bennifit" the comunity.

Would some one give me a listof who's leaveing?

(I bet we could have a support group to keep us from comeing back.)

[Major Fubar 0]

I don't know of anyone leaving for sure, but there certainly has been some mention of it during this thread...

[Pathy 0]

i know every1 is heated up on this

and by reading some posts, not all since theres too many

i just wanna ask that

since im just beginning to learn how to use o2 and using the odol explorer and never ever goin to release an addon

do i still need permission to edit addons for personal use?

plz every1 dont kill me on this one

Ruff even I (:p) would say no, if the addon maker doesnt need to know about it what harm can it do?

You might find it nice though just to drop the addon maker  a quick thanks, but, if you stress your not releasing it or any part of it, i severly doubt any member of the community would say "no".

Oh and as a learner, maybe you can help me.

What learning use is ODOL explorer to you? Surely, it only tells you that a modeller did something, but not HOW they did something. So surely tutes are better than opening up existing models?

[Tim Pink 0]

@ TJ

Quote[/b] ]For your list of "Crappy addons", just go to ADDONs & MODS complete.

Man dont you think thats a bit harsh

Quote[/b] ]Those that are actually worth downloading and keeping and that have made a difference to the community (FDF, CSLA, WGL, BAS, DKM etc etc) are few and far between

.

I mean you find most addons by those mod sites in Addons and Mods Complete so thats a direct contradiction of your self, it just doesnt make sense.

God i just wasted 20 mins of my life reading 18 pages of crap

When did the OFP community take such a step backwards?

Whats the word for today "Immaturity" lets spell it out loud O.F.P.C.O.M.M.U.N.I.T.Y.

Tim Pink

[colonel_klink 0]

It's nice to see the other thread on a similar topic is locked.. Shame this one can't be as well.

Come on guys this is beginning to sound like a broken record that goes on and on.. Give it a break and go make some nice addons. Please.

[Drill Sergeant 0]

and to think I wasted all that time during the 2 years I spent working on OFP as a addon maker.  

At this point I really don't care much about argueing over

the tool. I need a skiner much more badly then protection.

Todays second word of the day would be rambling.

Right now we can spell that T.h.i.s T.h.r.e.a.d

Atleast the MAJORITY of the argueing has seaced.

*Stares at pathy with a cold, dark stare.*

Even if a tool is updated the older version is still out there.

So ether pack up or shut up and get back to work.

Now are we going to use this thread properly for once and  discuss things we want to ADD to this tool?

Personaly, I'd like to see a no BS binaraniz, because the BIS one does  not run on my computer.  

Once again I repeat myself. (3d time I'll break out my 12ga.)

Back to the debate. #1 There should be no debate...

The tool is not right nor is it wrong.

Bottem line is if it is atleast 95% helpful then it's ok

If theres a large amount of  thefts/hacks/problems, WHICH ARE TRACED TO BE IN DIRECT RELATION TO THE TOOL.

Then it's not good.

                             Bottem line.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Please end the rest of this discussion QUICKLY and like  ADUALTS. So we can get on with the tool discussion.

*Edit* @ CRN Klink, send me some skiners, I got enough     backed high polly models with no skins, that we could have

a huge addon party and skin them..  

[Pathy 0]

Klink the other thread was just getting interesting, we'd suggested using licensing, and, thats the solution.

Best of both worlds, attach a license that says "by downloading this addon you hereby agree not to edit the contents without obtaining prior permission...blah blah blah"

Then they can open it all, look around, see how its done, configged ect, but people need to ask for permission before editing, and if not, they are in breach of EULA and International Copyright Laws.

Works for me

[ruff 102]

im very new at o2

i just got it to work

then i was trying to edit p3d files so i can make my own custom units for my missisons, but couldnt do it

all those p3dedit files were to confusing to use

and o2 was also very confusing

i just wanted to edit certain things from addons i loved but couldnt do it

i couldnt open or edit p3d files in o2 even wen xpacking it

this tool enabled it

though i still cant edit models in o2 successfully

so far its just shows me how the models were made and the possiblity of editing them

it also shows how much effort addon makers has spent time on them

if i wanted ever to make a unit from scratch i guess the tool would be a help in looking at existing models of how they got certain things done

for me so far it just opens a possibiliy for me to edit existing addons for my PERSONAL USE

but for now i just want to edit addons for personal use since im very new and only wanna use these units in specific missions i create for myself

on topic ive edited a infantry model but the head seems to be below his legs wen converting it back to pbo any suggestions?

[Pathy 0]

This is due to selections and normals, im no expert, so ill let someone with more knowledge explain.

Oh and its very very rare that someone makes a unit from scratch, they mostly edit the old BIS demo models

[walker 0]

Oh and its very very rare that someone makes a unit from scratch, they mostly edit the old BIS demo models

Err

I dispute that. Most addons were built from scratch. Maybe true in the case of reskinned guns or original vehicles but there are more totaly new addons now than reskins.

Most of the new addons are just that, totaly new. There was no Mortar until addon makers made them ditto many of the russian vehicles all the britsh stuff. If you need to use human models there are non BIS models available on an open licence to develop from. Most of the helicopters are totaly new ditto 90% of airplanes. I could be here for hours.

This is the great advantage the open nature of OFP that BIS created for us a MASS of original work making our OFP worlds much richer whether it be a humble bush or the latest Antonov or total MOD like WGL.

BIS have made a largely future proofed game engine and have alowed the community unrivaled access in terms of mission building, scripting, island making, addon tools and support; and add to that a great open community. You come to an inevitable conclusion.

There is nothing to rival OFP in terms of modding in any other sector of the game engine market.

Kind Regards Walker

[m21man 0]

Oh and its very very rare that someone makes a unit from scratch, they mostly edit the old BIS demo models

Err

I dispute that. Most addons were built from scratch. Maybe true in the case of reskinned guns or original vehicles but there are more totaly new addons now than reskins.

Most of the new addons are just that, totaly new. There was no Mortar until addon makers made them ditto many of the russian vehicles all the britsh stuff. If you need to use human models there are non BIS models available on an open licence to develop from. Most of the helicopters are totaly new ditto 90% of airplanes. I could be here for hours.

This is the great advantage the open nature of OFP that BIS created for us a MASS of original work making our OFP worlds much richer whether it be a humble bush or the latest Antonov or total MOD like WGL.

BIS have made a largely future proofed game engine and have alowed the community unrivaled access in terms of mission building, scripting, island making, addon tools and support; and add to that a great open community. You come to an inevitable conclusion.

There is nothing to rival OFP in terms of modding in any other sector of the game engine market.

Kind Regards Walker

I think Pathy meant that most people use the BIS models when they're making soldier models.

[walker 0]

I think Pathy meant that most people use the BIS models when they're making soldier models.

Hi m21man

Quote[/b] ]If you need to use human models there are non BIS models available on an open licence to develop from.

Not the only example but in my humble opinion the best

International soldier model 2nd down in the list

http://mods.kmarns.net/modules....d&cid=2

Quote[/b] ]Description: This is an international soldier model, representing a soldier from no specific country. This model is un-binarized, allowing you to create your own soldier model from it.

Features for this add-on:

- Camouflage face action

- Put on/Take off goggles action (BAS compatible)

- Take off/Put on helmet

- Custom armpatch (BAS compatible)

- Mutliplayer clan-sign as armpatch (automatic feature)

- Rank markings (simplified USMC rank markings included)

There are several others including new anim versions. I do not dispute that we all stand on the shoulders of giants (BIS) nor do I dispute we learn from others. I merely wished to make clear the vast amount of original work created by the community largely because of this open nature.

Kind Regards Walker