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Bas delta/ranger update

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I just came back from hunting FIA mortar positions on Nogova with a group of Rangers and a MH-60L, somehow the updated Rangers feel much more real opposed to the old ones wich looked more like the original CWC units, and the "cat-eyes" are also a huge mood setter for me, as I usually play without the NVG's even in complete darkness (they make my eyes very sore) I can't wait until we see the full update from you guys, with regular army untis included.

As I said before great work BAS.

EDIT: Changed the wording a bit.

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yo welcome dude  wink_o.gif

another thing regarding the JAM_sounds.pbo:

have you thought about replacing some current sounds (if permission is granted) by some from the marine assualt pack?

i did so by myself with the m249, M4SD and akm sounds and now the tonal/ BAS fighting atmosphere is even more overwhelming.

it won´t have to be the MA pack sounds- maybe there are even better ones out there, but some MA´s sounds really kick ass.

One of the reasons we separated out the Sounds into another pbo was so that people could make their own custom sound packs for JAM, without having to duplicate the config etc.

Whilst I don't think we have any "official" plans to update JAM at this moment in time, everyone else is free to make their own soundpacks for JAM and distribute them (as long as you dont edit the config in any way) for people to use.

This method also means that you won't display modified config messages in MP either smile_o.gif

and that´s what i thought the jam_sounds.pbo would have been there for... smile_o.gif

JAM doesn´t really need an update, everything is ofp- alright now, as it is.

-except for the SR2... oh never mind biggrin_o.gif

just want to officially share my new ofp- audio- experience.

but if anybody´s interested in the new sounds, drop me a PM  smile_o.gif

edit:

just alt- tabbed back from mission editing...

the desert version ranger GL SD has the same problem like the woodland one- wrong weapon (non- silenced) tounge_o.gif

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and that´s what i thought the jam_sounds.pbo would have been there for... smile_o.gif

JAM doesn´t really need an update, everything is ofp- alright now, as it is.

-except for the SR2... oh never mind biggrin_o.gif

just want to officially share my new ofp- audio- experience.

but if anybody´s interested in the new sounds, drop me a PM  smile_o.gif

edit:

just alt- tabbed back from mission editing...

the desert version ranger GL SD has the same problem like the woodland one- wrong weapon (non- silenced)  tounge_o.gif

Some of the SR-25SD "issues" are being addressed in the upcoming patch (re-zeroing it, so that it doesnt shoot miles overhead, and the AI can use it etc)

As for the Ranger (S) issues, that was me, missing an S from the config at 3AM tounge_o.gif win some, lose some. Again, this will be fixed in the patch.

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quick question, dont know if its intentional or not, Deltas when injured get an option "First Aid" in the action menu.

Now, when you select it you start doing the medic animation and all your wounds disapear, but then when the animation ends all your wounds come back.. is this to simulate not always being able to stop the "bleeding"? or just a mere glitch?

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Quote[/b] ]is this to simulate not always being able to stop the "bleeding"? or just a mere glitch?

I think you have to stay still for a few seconds after the animation ends.

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nope, unfortunately not, as soon as the animation ends (still not moving) it "re-wounds" me

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Great job, BAS. I absolutely love the new units and the JAM compatibilty. The only other thing I've noticed apart from what has already been brought up is that the Delta Grenadiers carry their grenade rounds individually, while the Rangers carry the vest. Personally, I'm more fond of the vest, but its kind of confusing to have it one way for the Deltas and another for the Rangers.

Great job, though... and I'm eagerly waiting for those Littlebirds smile_o.gif

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*M4 SD eotech holo sight too low- bullets hit too high. all good with non silenced version and/ or i.e. M4SDacog

Are you sure that you're firing at the exact same distance that the weapons was zeroed on? Otherwise they would naturally shoot over the crosshair at shorter distances. All the rifles vill have this problem, but it will be more visible on the SD weapons since they have slower bullets, and therefore a more curved trajectory.

EDIT:

But it would be nice to know at which distance the weapons were zeroed at if it wasn't the same for all the weapons. An if they are zeroed at a fixed standard distance it should be changed so the SD weapons are zeroed at far closer distances than the non-SD weapons. I would imagine something like:

M4 SD: 100 m

M4 standard: 200 m

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Will there be correct pouch configurations for certain classes, like the machine gunners? Like what was done with the Nampack.

It's kind of funny seeing a M240 gunner with M16 pouches on their RACK.

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*M4 SD eotech holo sight too low- bullets hit too high. all good with non silenced version and/ or i.e. M4SDacog

Are you sure that you're firing at the exact same distance that the weapons was zeroed on? Otherwise they would naturally shoot over the crosshair at shorter distances. All the rifles vill have this problem, but it will be more visible on the SD weapons since they have slower bullets, and therefore a more curved trajectory.

EDIT:

But it would be nice to know at which distance the weapons were zeroed at if it wasn't the same for all the weapons. An if they are zeroed at a fixed standard distance it should be changed so the SD weapons are zeroed at far closer distances than the non-SD weapons. I would imagine something like:

M4 SD: 100 m

M4 standard: 200 m

Again, silenced rifles do not HAVE to use subsonic rounds.  A silenced M4 can still use regular rounds...it's just not as silent but it still makes it difficult for an enemy to pinpoint the origin of the gunfire as the only thing heard is the super-sonic "crack" of the bullet as it goes by them (or right before it smacks into them).   I think this whole intentional zero offset thing is rediculous personally as it just screws up the SD rifles and makes them difficult for the player and the AI to use.  I personally don't want to be doing Kentucky windage all the time and until someone makes a scope with an adjustable zero in OFP, its best to just leave the zero alone and make the SD ammo just like the regular ammo only quieter and where the AI don't hear it just like the BIS MP5.  

Instead of messing around with the trajectory/zero/velocity, ect... of the ammo, perhaps instead the lethality could just be decreased just a bit. A subsonic .223 round is more like a .22-LR pistol/rifle round... not the most lethal bullet in the world. So perhaps making it more like the BIS Bison's (or Bizom???) ammo would be an answer to the "realism" question without making using the SD JAM weapons frustrating.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

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Will there be correct pouch configurations for certain classes, like the machine gunners? Like what was done with the Nampack.

It's kind of funny seeing a M240 gunner with M16 pouches on their RACK.

Far away in the future, yes they will all have kit specific to their job function. But that is for the pack we are working on now, not the ones we just released. So what you have with this pack is going to have to last you for quite a while.

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what about the funny looking legs torso area, it looks like their shirts are too long, and not tucked in tounge_o.gif

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what about the funny looking legs torso area, it looks like their shirts are too long, and not tucked in tounge_o.gif

<edit> Maybe a bit too long and yes they are untucked. It stays though, if you tuck the shirts you see all the nice distortion in the model due to the animation system. Also if they are shorter you get other anomolies. Look at the SOAR and you'll see how it looks tucked. I had them tucked, but trust me, it looks better untucked. tounge_o.gif

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*M4 SD eotech holo sight too low- bullets hit too high. all good with non silenced version and/ or i.e. M4SDacog

Are you sure that you're firing at the exact same distance that the weapons was zeroed on? Otherwise they would naturally shoot over the crosshair at shorter distances. All the rifles vill have this problem, but it will be more visible on the SD weapons since they have slower bullets, and therefore a more curved trajectory.

EDIT:

But it would be nice to know at which distance the weapons were zeroed at if it wasn't the same for all the weapons. An if they are zeroed at a fixed standard distance it should be changed so the SD weapons are zeroed at far closer distances than the non-SD weapons. I would imagine something like:

M4 SD: 100 m

M4 standard: 200 m

Standard BIS zeroing is 400m from memory. I think Evis told me that the BAS weapons were zeroed into the same.

I tested this once when JAM came out and it looked all good.

As for the subsonic 5.56 100m would be a sweet distance for them to be zeroed into, any further you start having a big drop + people bitching because of it tounge_o.gif .

DM good to hear you are gonna adjust the zeroing on the next update.

I do like Miles Tegs suggestion about using rifle supression with normal rounds, thus eliminating muzzle crack and flash. Could be useful in dawn/dust/night MP as people couldn't see the flash and hear the muzzle crack. However i also like the idea of rifles with both muzzle and ballistic supression. Maybe a seperate config version for muzzle supression which isn't attached to a soldier but can be added by mission editors??? Have no idea how much work this entails though.

Ebud, i also like them with their shirts untucked, who tucks their shirts in these days anyway  wink_o.gif   rock.gif  tounge_o.gif

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*M4 SD eotech holo sight too low- bullets hit too high. all good with non silenced version and/ or i.e. M4SDacog

Are you sure that you're firing at the exact same distance that the weapons was zeroed on? Otherwise they would naturally shoot over the crosshair at shorter distances. All the rifles vill have this problem, but it will be more visible on the SD weapons since they have slower bullets, and therefore a more curved trajectory.

EDIT:

But it would be nice to know at which distance the weapons were zeroed at if it wasn't the same for all the weapons. An if they are zeroed at a fixed standard distance it should be changed so the SD weapons are zeroed at far closer distances than the non-SD weapons. I would imagine something like:

M4 SD: 100 m

M4 standard: 200 m

Again, silenced rifles do not HAVE to use subsonic rounds.  A silenced M4 can still use regular rounds...it's just not as silent but it still makes it difficult for an enemy to pinpoint the origin of the gunfire as the only thing heard is the super-sonic "crack" of the bullet as it goes by them (or right before it smacks into them).   I think this whole intentional zero offset thing is rediculous personally as it just screws up the SD rifles and makes them difficult for the player and the AI to use.  I personally don't want to be doing Kentucky windage all the time and until someone makes a scope with an adjustable zero in OFP, its best to just leave the zero alone and make the SD ammo just like the regular ammo only quieter and where the AI don't hear it just like the BIS MP5.  

Instead of messing around with the trajectory/zero/velocity, ect... of the ammo, perhaps instead the lethality could just be decreased just a bit.  A subsonic .223 round is more like a .22-LR pistol/rifle round...  not the most lethal bullet in the world. So perhaps making it more like the BIS Bison's (or Bizom???) ammo would be an answer to the "realism" question without making using the SD JAM weapons frustrating.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

mads bahrt,

i used the ACOG SD sight and impact point as reference while the angle and distance to/ of target remained the same on both weapon tests.

miles,

i bet that they´ll find a solution for this- as DM already said.

just wait for the update smile_o.gif

DM,

could you please consider adding a normal delta operator with facemask into the editor list?

it´s no biggy at all now, but it´d make things easier for mission editors and MP player selection, if you want to make pure covert assaults.

right now you´d have to use snipers and spotters for a masked assault team and remove and add weapon layouts by hand.

//edit:

just found out that the new de/ra M4s don´t use the JAM reload sound wink_o.gif

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I second that vote. Although It's not hard to use the facemask guys as an assaulter, it's easier to have them in the editor already.

It's not a big deal right now, since I change the weapons to earls anyway (sorry bas), but for the final pack it's a thing to keep in mind.

I LOVE the look a delta mgunner (with facemask), goggles down and holding the (earls) M4M203cco or (HKpack) MP5-SD3. The guy realy looks like a mean fighting machine. I can't stop using them in littlebird touch-and-go landings in the city's of Tonal biggrin_o.gif

I just keep on saying this: I love the new delta's and rangers!!

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*M4 SD eotech holo sight too low- bullets hit too high. all good with non silenced version and/ or i.e. M4SDacog

Are you sure that you're firing at the exact same distance that the weapons was zeroed on? Otherwise they would naturally shoot over the crosshair at shorter distances. All the rifles vill have this problem, but it will be more visible on the SD weapons since they have slower bullets, and therefore a more curved trajectory.

EDIT:

But it would be nice to know at which distance the weapons were zeroed at if it wasn't the same for all the weapons. An if they are zeroed at a fixed standard distance it should be changed so the SD weapons are zeroed at far closer distances than the non-SD weapons. I would imagine something like:

M4 SD: 100 m

M4 standard: 200 m

Again, silenced rifles do not HAVE to use subsonic rounds.  A silenced M4 can still use regular rounds...it's just not as silent but it still makes it difficult for an enemy to pinpoint the origin of the gunfire as the only thing heard is the super-sonic "crack" of the bullet as it goes by them (or right before it smacks into them).   I think this whole intentional zero offset thing is rediculous personally as it just screws up the SD rifles and makes them difficult for the player and the AI to use.  I personally don't want to be doing Kentucky windage all the time and until someone makes a scope with an adjustable zero in OFP, its best to just leave the zero alone and make the SD ammo just like the regular ammo only quieter and where the AI don't hear it just like the BIS MP5.  

Instead of messing around with the trajectory/zero/velocity, ect... of the ammo, perhaps instead the lethality could just be decreased just a bit.  A subsonic .223 round is more like a .22-LR pistol/rifle round...  not the most lethal bullet in the world. So perhaps making it more like the BIS Bison's (or Bizom???) ammo would be an answer to the "realism" question without making using the SD JAM weapons frustrating.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

A RL M4 would be zeroed at 300m.This is the most common.

I would also like to ask for using standard ammo for the silenced M4's and not the subsonic ammo.

I also believe that the subsonic ammo can't be used in full-auto since it does not proudce enough gas to operate th blowback maganism tus fucking up the reload; you have to reload the weapon manually after each shot.

Note that silencers for the M4 are often used to hide the flash and somewhat silence the weapon and not so much to completely silence the weapon. It's also used for CQB condition where a normal m4 can cause permanent hearing damage (I know a marine who has permanent hearing damage because of a life-fire CQB training)

The distance at which a normal shot can be heard is around 1000m. With a silencer this is reduced to 100m. Using subsonic ammo this is reduced even more. Note that these values can change; it depends on wind, weather condition, air pressure, surroundings, ect, ect.

The best silended weapon is still the MP5SD series or the newer (altough not as quit as the MP5) UMP45-SD.

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Holy cow of mother of cow Espetcro tounge_o.gif

First I come home after the Formula Ones and Schumachers victory and then the Delta/ Rangers comes out. I love FLASHPOINT and BAS and BIS. Wat a nice day. biggrin_o.gif

Only bugs i spotted was the M4 with the HALO sight but thats was mentioned before. Other than that nice addon and lookin forward to the Littlebirds BAS smile_o.gif

Batdog signing out

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Seems to be alot of discussion on the suppressed versions, here's my 2c worth.

When designing the SD round for JAM alot of different options were looked at, we feel that the current version (sub-sonic with reduced detectability by the AI) gives better game balance.

A supersonic suppressed round would be the "uber weapon" for players, AI can't detect you, other playrs can't hear you, especially if you're firing from 100's of meters away.

By using the subsonic round, you need to get much closer, (or be able to arc the shot really really well) givng the AI and other players some chance of getting you. In RL the optimal max range for a western subsonic round is just over 100m.

All that needs to be done is for the weapons to be coded properly (something we failed to do in JAM weapons), then the weapons will be easier to use.

SelectThis

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I honour your decision to balance the game, but you have to admit that the supersonic suppressed is what they use in RL.

So just for the sake of realism I would like to see a supersonic JAM suppressed round aswell with nice supersonic crack. I doubt this will ever be done, but I ask for it anyway.

Also note what I wrote about the subsonic round of the m4:

Quote[/b] ]I also believe that the subsonic ammo can't be used in full-auto since it does not proudce enough gas to operate th blowback maganism tus fucking up the reload; you have to reload the weapon manually after each shot.

So the subsonic round used in JAM together with the full-auto mod is already unrealistic.

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Exactly... that's all I'm asking for is just to at least give the mission maker THE CHOICE to use either the current BAS subsonic bullets in JAM or regular ammo(suppressed) like in the BIS MP5 with no major ballistics curve in order to simulate standard 5.56mm ammo as normally used in real life except in covert take down situations at close range where they use a magazine carrying the subsonic rounds specifically for that purpose).

That way a mission maker can use the low velocity SD ammo for MP games (to prevent the uber weapon problem) while for single player missions, the mission maker can choose to use the standard ammo (suppressed) if they find, like myself, the low velocity BAS ammo to be frustrating and to cause the AI Deltas (covert) to get slaughtered.

So all I ask is just for mission makers like myself to have THE OPTION to decide what is more realistic in our missions.

Other then that I really love these new Deltas and Rangers and have nothing but awe and respect for the BAS team's excellent work.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

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^second that.

covert guys get slaughtered indeed. I usually just take a silenced weapon myself and give the rest normal weapons. I keep the squad in the rear until hell brakes loose. Not the ideal way of playing OFP.

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Hello

Can someone verify this problem?

Arm patches on Deltas/Rangers do not work.  Not with the BAS supplied patches library or say using the BIS "\Flags\yourflaghere"  library.

In the Readme it says:

Quote[/b] ]******************************************************************************************

****************************

ARM PATCH TEXTURES

******************************************************************************************

****************************

You can select a Patch to put on the units arm, by pasting this code into the INIT field :

NOTE: The texture can be changed in mission

OR different Ranger Divisions:

this setObjectTexture [0,"\BAS_weap\unitpatch\82nd.paa"]

[end code]

Available Ranger Patches are :

this setObjectTexture [0,"\BAS_weap\unitpatch\82nd.paa"]

this setObjectTexture [0,"\BAS_weap\unitpatch\101st.paa"]

this setObjectTexture [0,"\BAS_weap\unitpatch\10thMt.paa"]

this setObjectTexture [0,"\BAS_weap\unitpatch\75thRanger.paa"]

And Subdued patches:

this setObjectTexture [0,"\BAS_weap\unitpatch\82ndsub.paa"]

this setObjectTexture [0,"\BAS_weap\unitpatch\101stsub.paa"]

this setObjectTexture [0,"\BAS_weap\unitpatch\10thMtsub.paa"]

this setObjectTexture [0,"\BAS_weap\unitpatch\75thRangersub.paa"]

OR

SQUAD PATCHES

To quickly and easily change the arm patch of an entire squad, past this line in the INIT field of squad leader:

[code]

{_x setObjectTexture [0,"\BAS_weap\unitpatch\10thMt.paa"]} forEach units this

[end code]

or (for use outside init field, requires Group name):

[code]

{_x setObjectTexture [0,"\BAS_weap\unitpatch\10thMt.pac"]} forEach units Grpname

[end code]

I'm currently trying to get the

This SetObjectTexture [0,"\Flags\pirates.jpg"]

armpatch to come up like it did with the old BAS De/Ra Units but I'm getting no love.

I need it for a renegade group of Ranger units that need to be "disciplined" as such.  And I usually use the armpatches to differentiate between good guys and bad guys...

Help on this matter would be much appreciated.

I second the motion of having a generic Delta class soldier with facemask... those guys look bad-ass biggrin_o.gif

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Yeah we need our armpatches back, what happened to the regular "soldier" file...

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