Ai thread

[arma2mods 10]

BIS should spend soem time and effort to looking some collaboration with some AI research institutes to get AI coded to react more human way. There is plenty of universities and other gaming companies opening they studies on it so dont get behind in progress. I am tired to games where AI can do just one thing and nothing more over it. It will sure take time them to get them to adapt like humans but whit current power of CPU it is doable. FSM solution isnt yet make anything visible changes to that in modding so it should come more from BIS.

[NoRailgunner 0]

How and when AI use guided and dumb missiles/shells?

Does the AI really knows about the missile ranges for example in T-90 or helicopter/planes?

What about using smoke to cover movements or at least - if units are heavily damaged or injured they could hide behind the smokescreens and withdraw?

[Riah069 10]

Enemy BMP to our front CLOSE!!! Lets stand there and look at it for 5 seconds before deciding what to do....Hitting the ground.. Finding cover OR throw a smoke grenade wow theres a novel IDEA!!... The later dosent happen wish it would.. Didnt it say in there BIS Speel that the AI was true to life? Bollocks!!

Edited July 5, 2009 by Riah069

[Baff1 0]

Lets discuss CPU optimisation.

In the AI heavy/ script heavy game X3, the AI beyond a certain range has a simplified set of calculations.

In your vicinity the AI does all the complex stuff, dogfighting and trading and docking and firing missiles etc. It doesn't calculate collision for example.

Beyond close vicinity, the AI uses a completely more minimal system. So it won't be using cover or docking or dogfighting. AI will fight each other using a very simplified calculation.

Tank>car. If tank range to car = 500m then tank = no damage and car = destroyed. Let car = destroyed. Simples!

They won't be driving around in towns etc calculating cover and who can see what, they will just resolve the fights with minimum CPU cycles.

So the game X3 is actually running 2 seperate AI models concurrently. X3 has it's AOI's more easily limited than ArmA does of course.

How can we optimise ArmA AI to use less CPU cycles?

Edited July 5, 2009 by Baff1

[BF2_Trooper 0]

There has been an improvement in the AI, in Arma bots used to stream out of a town, endlessly into your gunfire. You could just stay in one place and soon the whole town would empty itself on one street.

I'm finding something similar, but not as bad, in ARMA2. I created a mission set in the city of Chernagonsk. The whole place is filled with hostile Guerrilla AIs. My four man team of Force Recon marines were able to hold up inside a building. I start sniping the AIs from inside the buildings second floor out a window. The AIs would not once shoot me through the windows from outside. I'm pretty sure they've already dedected my location after shooting 20 or of them.

Eventually the building is being closely encricled by dozens of AI guerrillas and AIs guerillas driving in Technicals. I'm still able to pick them off safe inside the building. No one would SHOOT INTO THE WINDOWS or just AT THE BUILDING. Now sticking my head out of a door is another story though, but is seems like as long as I'm behind a closed window, I'm safe. Now I've noticed the same behaviour with my guys in the building. I switched to their bodies so that I could place them near the windows. Not one of them would fire out from the windows. It didnt matter how many hostile AIs were roaming around like brain dead zombies near the building. None of my guys would take a shot.

[cadmium77 16]

Yes! That's one thing I love about GR. I remember in the city map I was pinned down behind a small pile of rubble because the ai was hammering my position. I was stuck there for over a minute while I moved my other squad to a flank position.

COLINMAN

You're bringing back many fond memories. If only GR had gone on to become what Arma 2 is...but Arma 2 is very similar in its feel.

The suppressive fire thing would even be better if there was a rhythm between other riflemen in the squad with one rifleman shooting while the other reloaded...

[cadmium77 16]

All this emotional AI is already 7 years old in a strategy called Close Combat (already made part 5) which should you all wargame fans know. The AI works really satisfying and if the BI would do it at least at this level as it is in CC, things would become really alive. And no more radio voices (that's only for the radio man to contact other squads), people should be talkin' and yellin' and we should reckognize the amount stress they suffer from their voice. And I'd like to see expressions on their faces (like "scared", "calm", "panic", "happy", ond so on...)

And there are also other factors of every combatant which affect his reactions in combat including

experience (they hide and fight better, gets increased by the amount of firefight),

strength (they run better, they don't get tired easily if they're in good physical condition),

morale (to run or not to run, that is the question),

intelligence (if they're more intelligent, usually the leaders, they won't just run to the enemy or get berserk or brave easily),

and there are two more things which I've fotgotten.

This is a must for every simulation of war. And if you haven't playd any part of the Close Combat series, shame on you, you don't know what you're missing. BI should at least copy (but improve would be even better, eh?) many ideas from there.

Now that you mention it Close Combat did have pretty damn good AI for regulating the soldier's morale. I'm missing that in Arma 2 though the soldiers are pretty incredible in their own way. I love patrolling down a street with my men following me with their guns up ready for anything.

[krycek 349]

Change the altitude of chopper attack or planes,they get too low when engaging with unguided missiles and they either hit trees or houses or simply crash in a hill because they can't gain altitude in time.

Also fix the Hind choppers,they use a lot of unguided missiles instead AT guided ones(ataka,shturm) when engaging armor.I've seen very rare situations when they do use the AT ones.Not sure if it's the same situation with Cobras.

I think this has been reported,but please fix the AI driving,it's terrible even with safe command.

[CrazyAce 0]

I just wish the AI would move out of the way when a vehicle is coming at them or if I'm traveling behind a squad that walks on the road; they should move once I honk the horn. It irritates me when I play Superpower to have a newly created unit get mowed down by a supply truck… “MOVE THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY†as I scream at the screen.

[Raficoo 0]

i Just wish that .... in a convoy of tanks... the Followers would not make a 360 Spin or move off road when they get near the Leader.... it's really Annoying!!!

same Thing happened in ArmA1!!

i hope they can fix this, i wanna feel like im moving in a real Convoy (for ex: what if there is a VIP in one car with 2Humvees infront and Back of him, they would just do a 360 while the enemy shoots em down with ease:P)

The Leader of the Convoy is smart,, he follows the rules and moves like a master, but the guys behind him... Drunk as #@%^

[Kirai 10]

I hope this is the right thread for these questions.

I have some problems with the AI in Arma II, I have only played it with the new patch and maybe its a bug or maybe its me.

1: Sometimes when I get into a vehicle and let someone else drive during the campaign and when I get out again I'm limping like if I was hurt. Is the driver so bad at driving that I get hurt on the way? :P

2: Sometimes when I order my men to get into the vehicle, one of them tries to get into the drivers seat where I am and does not enter the vehicle.

3: When I'm hurt and tries to call for a medic, nothing happens besides that I cry out for help, my mates does nothing. The same thing is if some one else in my team is hurt and I point at him and call for medic nothing happens. I have to give him first aid myself all the time.

4: When the AI is driving, it would sure have been nice if they didn't crash into other cars thats parked on the way. It seems like the AI got their driving license from a corn flakes package.

This might not be a bug, maybe I just do something wrong but it is really a pain in the ass. These things a related to playing the single campaign.

[Chunk3ym4n 10]

After experimenting in the editor placing too many ai makes them VERY VERY unresponsive. I mean like making 200 units attack a town with about 100 militia in there would although give out like 12-20 fps, the AI was craptastic at best. They would stand in the middle of the street, keep yelling at their subordinates to engage a target through a wall or building and not EVEN shoot people right next to them. I had the militia and my squad right next to eachother and they just walked around with their guns raised acting like noones there. I stood in front of a enemy squad leader who was too busy to shoot me and just told his squad to engage my allies which were like 50m away while i was standing right in front of him. This doesnt happen with much less AI on the map but I would want AI which are in proximity to you to actually respond towards you. Perhaps they wouldn't have to be that aware at far ranges like 200 meters away.

[kremator 1064]

i Just wish that .... in a convoy of tanks... the Followers would not make a 360 Spin or move off road when they get near the Leader.... it's really Annoying!!!

What IS needed for convoys is that when coming under fire the vehicles SCATTER in a star formation, providing covering fire if necessary AT FULL SPEED.

@Chunk3ym4n ... I'm sure they will fine hone the AI in future patches. It is always this way with early releases from BIS.

[MasterSniper 0]

My main problem with the AI is general threat assessment. They don't seem to have much of a sense of danger. For example, if there's a guy prone on the ground and you fire all around him, he doesn't even try and move towards cover. There's no fleeing by enemies if they feel threatened.

Along the same line, the AI has absolutely no sense of danger. I had a group of soldiers with a move waypoint that basically took them into the path of a 100 man enemy march and they decided the best course of action was to open fire.

It would be cool if the enemy had more of a sense of danger and threat. For example, maybe deciding not to attack when the enemy is far too strong for them or running when they are in trouble

[Chunk3ym4n 10]

My main problem with the AI is general threat assessment. They don't seem to have much of a sense of danger. For example, if there's a guy prone on the ground and you fire all around him, he doesn't even try and move towards cover. There's no fleeing by enemies if they feel threatened.

Along the same line, the AI has absolutely no sense of danger. I had a group of soldiers with a move waypoint that basically took them into the path of a 100 man enemy march and they decided the best course of action was to open fire.

It would be cool if the enemy had more of a sense of danger and threat. For example, maybe deciding not to attack when the enemy is far too strong for them or running when they are in trouble

Try syncronizing the surrender module to them. When shit hits the fan they will try to run away and if you keep chasing them they will eventually surrender.

[Estar 10]

AI needs to use and STAY in cover way more. The current AI changes positions too much, even when under fire. Suicide runs towards enemy fire is the most common way that I've seen AI soldiers die.

When under fire the AI needs to instantly take cover and fight from that cover, advancing only when it is safe to do so. AI should only change position when needed (flanked, falling back, cover is gone, etc.) and use suppressing fire if possible before doing so.

AI should NEVER stop in the open while advancing when there is any cover around. Currently the AI will often stop out in the open while advancing even though there is tons of cover around and get shot. They should be moving from cover to cover.

AI should keep there attention more towards the direction of the threat instead of scanning around so often during combat. I constantly see soldiers facing in a direction away from the enemy where there is no threat or just spinning in a circle during combat. It looks stupid and reduces their combat effectiveness.

AI groups should stick together more often. Once combat starts AI groups become way too spread out with everyone going out in different directions and getting picked off one by one.

After playing the game and observing the AI I feel that there is tons of untapped potential with the current engine with regards to how the AI infantry fight. I smile when I see a AI soldier crouch, take cover behind a building, and then proceed to peak around the corner. But then I cry when moments later, instead of firing from that corner at the enemy down the road he decides to run out into the open and get shot :confused: . The AI currently has the ability and moves to fight smart and effectively but doesn't utilize them well.

Really hope to see AI improvements in future patches (or mods). The potential is there.

[jackpac 10]

The ai shouldn't be able to see through grass! thats enoying

[kremator 1064]

AI needs to use and STAY in cover way more. The current AI changes positions too much, even when under fire. Suicide runs towards enemy fire is the most common way that I've seen AI soldiers die.

When under fire the AI needs to instantly take cover and fight from that cover, advancing only when it is safe to do so. AI should only change position when needed (flanked, falling back, cover is gone, etc.) and use suppressing fire if possible before doing so.

AI should NEVER stop in the open while advancing when there is any cover around. Currently the AI will often stop out in the open while advancing even though there is tons of cover around and get shot. They should be moving from cover to cover.

AI should keep there attention more towards the direction of the threat instead of scanning around so often during combat. I constantly see soldiers facing in a direction away from the enemy where there is no threat or just spinning in a circle during combat. It looks stupid and reduces their combat effectiveness.

AI groups should stick together more often. Once combat starts AI groups become way too spread out with everyone going out in different directions and getting picked off one by one.

After playing the game and observing the AI I feel that there is tons of untapped potential with the current engine with regards to how the AI infantry fight. I smile when I see a AI soldier crouch, take cover behind a building, and then proceed to peak around the corner. But then I cry when moments later, instead of firing from that corner at the enemy down the road he decides to run out into the open and get shot :confused: . The AI currently has the ability and moves to fight smart and effectively but doesn't utilize them well.

Really hope to see AI improvements in future patches (or mods). The potential is there.

Once FSM is released then we will be able to manipulate the AI behaviour ourselves. We should get these tools very soon.

[nomdeplume 0]

1: Sometimes when I get into a vehicle and let someone else drive during the campaign and when I get out again I'm limping like if I was hurt. Is the driver so bad at driving that I get hurt on the way? :P

This seems to happen a fair bit but I haven't entirely narrowed down the cause. Sometimes it seems like getting out may cause damage to soldiers - I've noticed in particular that with the Venom if the pilots disembark they often die. For passengers they might be taking fall damage - maybe it's slightly too sensitive?

If the vehicle is involved in any kind of accident the people in it can receive damage which you won't normally know about until you disembark. Even minor accidents and cause slight damage, enough to have people moaning.

2: Sometimes when I order my men to get into the vehicle, one of them tries to get into the drivers seat where I am and does not enter the vehicle.

They pick a position when they receive the order, and if that position is filled by the time they get there they won't get in, so that might be what's happening for you (if you're telling them to get in before you actually get in yourself).

3: When I'm hurt and tries to call for a medic, nothing happens besides that I cry out for help, my mates does nothing. The same thing is if some one else in my team is hurt and I point at him and call for medic nothing happens. I have to give him first aid myself all the time.

The responsiveness varies, and even when tasked with healing someone the AI will often take their sweet time. Somewhat reasonable (no point getting yourself killed in a rush to help someone) but it's pretty frustrating at times.

To order an AI to heal someone else, you need to either point at the injured person and middle-click when the star icon appears, or use the Actions (6) Heal command.

Oh also if you're the leader, calling out injured won't help -- the leader needs to tell someone to go and heal you. If you're incapacitated someone else will take over the leader slot and will hopefully order someone to help you, but again it can take them an awfully long time to get around to it.

[King Poulet 1]

i'd like the leader AIs on team to be more specific when giving orders.

Like, ALL MOVE TO THAT TREE!

Which tree? wtf, there's like hundred's of them...

I think OFP used to be much more specific, like adding 2 o clock or something. Saying to left or to right isn't helpfull neither, confuse me more than anything.

[Scrub 0]

I hope this is the location for this suggestion, not sure as it includes terrain and AI.. Here goes.

I thought of this after reading a few posts about bridges and the AI not wanting to go over them, and seeing my teammates swim across a pond to keep up with me (you know what happens). Why not use a map that shows deep water. AI can use it to judge preference, kind of like they do for deciding to stay on the road or go cross-country. The vehicles are noted as being land only, water only, or amphibious. They should know when to look for a way around or over deep water, or choose to go through.

Something like that.

[Sn@keByte 10]

I'd like to see, that the AI is as well as the human player unable to see fully through grass and leafs (and acting like the environment consists only of rocks, quadric buildings, leafless trees and plain ground).

Also I would like to see the "killing through massive objects" fixed. Lying behind a massive objekt like a stone or wall doesn't give really cover. Often you will be struck "through" the object.

The supressing feature would be very nice. AI running into the swarm of bullets is pixel "genocide".

Then the AI must exhaust too and needs to calm down before he/she/it can land the perfect shot. As well when they are wounded. Sometimes they are walking and running and shooting like never been hit. The AI should feel pain, affecting cognitive abilities like walking, running and aiming.

Perhaps is should send my AI-Wishlist to Santa :D

[kubel83 10]

8 out of 10 i'm happy with the ai, however something that really anoys me is this...

Im the squad leader, my Ai-units follows my commands nicely, but when it comes to my AT-units they don't understand anything.

Im in a forrest sneaking in on enemy armour, all my men are put on hold fire, we are moving to the outskirts of the forrest so my AT-units can get a clear shot on the enemy armour... i Order the AT-guys to target the enemy armour, and that's where the film snaps... The Ai AT-unit is dumb as a head less turkey :) the Bmp3 is right in front of him, 100 m away or so, nothing is blocking his view, but still the AT-units runs forth and back like a blind monkey.. a few mins later i see my AT-unit finally to get a lock on the target "target in sight" or "ready to fire", i order him to fire, he put his AT wep on his back and starts to run away, just to turn around and then move even closer to the BMP, where the bmp spots him and blows him sky high... Sometimes he even fire one round with the riffle against the bmp, blowing his cover, and gets him self killed... One time i tryed to engage an Bmp3,, aprox 120-150 meters away from us.. i order AT- guy to attack... he tryes to get him self in better possistion,, fair enought, but 5 min later hes 600 meters away from the target, another 5 mins he comes back, and starts to run away again... And im thinking. "OH my god,,, just fire that bloody AT-wep,,, god damn it"...the Bmp is not even moving.. moving targets i don't even try to engage anymore, cause the Ai AT-units just gets them self killed trying to engage them..

I think the ai is good,, and deffently better then Arma and Operation flashpoint... But i think the AI AT-units has become more dumb than before, i had no problems in OFP or Arma.. they understood the command and it only tolk a few sec before they were ready to fire the wep.. but in Arma 2 Ai AT-units act like they are blind and only fires the AT-wep after a looooooooong time the attack command has been given... And by that time the Bmp is gone, or have spottet us and killed us all.... I hope in a later patch that the AI AT-units will recieve an update "ALOT" cause i really have major problems with them now.

Anyway thats my problem... sorry about my bad english heheh :)

[nomdeplume 0]

The Ai AT-unit is dumb as a head less turkey :)

Yes this is something I think needs to be addressed as well. The AI for engaging with secondary weapons is definitely not as good as it could be. It seems to take them a very long time to decide to use their launcher against a target. Maybe another command needs to be added to specifically tell them to engage using their launcher? Not sure if that'd help, since the AI commanders would still need to know when to use a launcher and when not to.

I also see some needless use of launchers - for example in a mission I'm making there's three Igla AA-pods, and very often the guys armed with Stingers will fire their missiles at it - even though it can be effectively engaged with small arms. This is a bit annoying when the enemy helicopters get airborne and all of our AA missiles have been fired at soft ground targets...

In another test - while someone was complaining about not being able to destroy tanks with the Javelin/SMAW in 1.03 - I set myself up in a nice position 500-600m away from an enemy tank and hit it with the SMAW without problems. When I made this guy an AI he moved much closer before attacking, and he did it even when I maxed his skill out. So it's like they don't understand the effective range of the launcher weapons and always feel the need to get closer than needed.

Additionally when messing around with my mission after things went wrong and it couldn't be completed, I ordered an AA guy to target a friendly chopper flying around. He targeted it but wouldn't take out the AA launcher. I ended up having to get him to drop his rifle and pistol and he still wouldn't ready the launcher. Only when I told him to fire did he finally think that maybe his anti-aircraft missile launcher would be a good thing to use against aircraft.

So in conclusion: an additional "use your launcher" command would help alleviate the frustration of player-commanders, especially if the AI understands what kind of range it can actually use it from. I'm not sure what the best fix for pure-AI targeting would be. Perhaps if the unit has a launcher it immediately decides what the type of target is -- armored vehicles should always be engaged with launchers, helos should always be engaged with AA launchers if the unit has it.

[luckyhendrix 10]

the IA AA also sux, they only use their stinger/strela at very low distance (less than 500m)

The tunguska never uses his missiles :mad: