Ai thread

[santafee 10]

You mate got the point again. Im not a Squadleader, im a babysitter most times.

Playing only with the AI is still a mess actually. Everybody who tells"You need skill for it","play less arcadish games","get into the command system" is a moron, sorry.

Hear my words now......

Im really really wonder how the Combat with AI is working in OA in Urban/small Areas! In the BetaPatches mostly VERY small bugs gettin fixed. yes 1.5 was a pretty good patch. BUT, why dont try something new with the Command and AI System.

Dangermode........"Hey im Covering, go il cover", - all enemys are dead allready...Seriously, i dont need OA if i get a accesable and WORKING Command System and a AI which almost is over the age of 8 years.

Please BI, think about the Singleplayerpeople out there.

Dont ask for the Armory!Nobody uses it!

Ask for the most important, AI and CommandSystem...!!!

You will see there are many more Requests and ideas then practising the Armory...Thank you!

one more thing...

please bring back the Spotting System from ARMAI! The actual system is sadly useless....;( clocks work preicly for soldiers!

Edited February 21, 2010 by Himmelsfeuer

[-Shifty- 10]

Well I'll try to make this short. I'll start with thanking BIS for many fun hours in this game.

The AI is nice, in the sense it's not too stupid (COD, Battlefield, MoH, etc...) but I think the only real issue the AI have, is aiming and suppressive fire. If I could change only one thing in this computer game, only one tiny little detail it would be suppressive fire and the reaction.

Imagine this in Warfare (That's all I ever play). You're attacking a town, lets say something really typical like Kabanino (Which is an important crossroads) and you're in your MTVR. You stop with your troops and disembark, then slowly advance towards the main depot. You spot infantry and your infantry immediately opens up with suppressive fire while half of your AI run for cover, then they suppress and the others take cover.

You could issue the movement orders, but what would be nice is if the suppression command would actually work. I've tried for hours to get that stupid little "Suppress" order to work but it never has.

As I said, only one detail I would change about this game: Suppressive fire

[Takko 10]

The supressive fire command works

[CarlGustaffa 4]

please bring back the Spotting System from ARMAI! The actual system is sadly useless....;( clocks work preicly for soldiers!

No it doesn't, not as long as formation direction keeps breaking up (rear/6 o'clock actually means left/9 o'clock or whatever it becomes when the bug kicks in). The only thing that will work 100% is compass bearings which aren't relative to anything dynamic.

[instagoat 133]

For me, neither the clock nor this "to our front" spotting system work. Especially because the clock bearings started to jump around (as CarlGustaffa said) once the squad began to shift around under fire.

The only system that would be easy and realistic is one that works by giving a general direction, reference object, and position of the target.

"Enemy Man, East, To the right of the White house with the red roof, between the birch trees."

That would be very difficult to implement, though, because you´d need the AI to use the correct references all the time. It works in MW2 for example because the levels are very restricted and the zones for target recognition are very clearly defined. In Arma these zones look different from every angle. Thus, I dont have very high hopes for this feature ever coming close to being completely useful.

[Flash Thunder 10]

Priorities for enhancing the Artificial Intelligence

Accuracy levels effected by user settings under game options, AI should'nt engage player at certain range, 1000 meters with SMG's so implement proper ROE rules

Fix all prior patch 1.05 AI issues, AI not treating wounded when commanded (serveral times) not staying in formation, not regrouping when in "danger mode" and or engaged in combat.

Add AI morale levels, AI should never be so "terminator" like, when you have 5people shooting at you, you will not function so efficiently unless you're like genetically modified, which in this case is obviously false. LOL

Tweak the Rules of Engagement

AI usage of assets, like empty vehicles on the battlefield, they should recognize this, and use these to there advantage unless scripted otherwise.

same goes for utilizing buildings and "Emplaced weapons and Ammo crates".

Added reaction times, when under fire and suprised, AI should never somehow hear you 30 meters away(when laying in a bush) do a 180 turn while proned and snipe you within 2 seconds! :mad: Ai need to scan horizon unless player is in plain sight, the AI feels to robotic in A2 and its a HUGE turn off for me with the series, since I dont play PVP I only play in editor with AI.

AI Convoy driving skills should be improved, when in certain states like Danger the AI shouldnt act as if they were on foot, other words dont drive all radically and use roads when necessary instead of always branching off in danger mode.

AI accuracy once, again the AI shouldn't be able to snipe pilots out of helos so easily, snipe people with MG's on tanks and use rocket launchers and hit their target from across the UTES runway, they dont do any kind of preperation or compensate for any condition, they always end up destroying there targets making for unplayable gameplay while in vehicles going against AI, as you're more secure on foot...

AI should deffinetly be effected by smoke grenades, Danger close explosions, other environmental phenomina, Grass when prone, other conditions.

Sorry If I sound rude, Please focus alot on AI BIS my 2 main problems with the game is the AI and the Performance issues, anything else can wait.

[Mysteryman5150 10]

@Flash Thunder- I like alot of what you said and some of those ideas are the main reason I made the mods I did, so I could tweak some of those things myself just a bit. I would prefer they fix some of it in a patch though, because it kind of feels a little like cheating when you tweak the skill sets and weapon dispersions just to eliminate some of the issues you mentioned.

I definately wish they would do something about the AI not responding to the team leaders when in danger mode. That is straight up rank insubordination happening in a mil-sim game;).

[Petrikum 10]

Please make a quick menu to sort of "Move to the position." This bot should move to that position is running and crouching.

This will be laid in such situations. There is a house. There in the window machine. Under the window, the only door. Order must mop up the house that would go further.

What is being done, deployed detachment chain smokes and runs and took a position near the door. Suppressed with this gun. But try to do it in ARMA2. Bots will rebate and frantically crawling under fire. This is stupid. Today 2010. and this chip is implemented in many games. Please think about it.

[otrebla_snake_ita 2]

We need faster AI medics...I had a wounded soldier in my team and a medic near him. I said to the medic "Heal X" and the medic healed him after something like 20\30 seconds...they were close each other about 2\3 meters

Edited February 26, 2010 by otreblA_SNAKE_[ITA]

[HyperU2 11]

Yeah the medics and really any AI trying to provide first aid is a joke. I might try to send one out unarmed, in hopes that they quit worrying about targets and start saving lives.

Edited February 26, 2010 by HyperU2

[SteveJA 12]

Its probably been metioned before but id like the ai to think realistically to odds

For example if a group of 5 are on a patrol, and come across a enemy group of 30, the squad of 5 dont engage, instead of the system we have now whereas a lone soldier can be stood surrounded by 100 infanty facing away, and he will still engage.

This feature could then be expanded to have the group of five to shadow the group and call in the appropriate reinforcements (to match or surpass the groups force) while keeping an update of the enemys movements, or if the group has a certian objective to reach they activly avoid the larger force and the bearing on which they are traveling.

This is something i would love to see implimented, as it will mean you will always have to keep an eye out on the possibilty that you could be being tracked, and your position is known to the enemy. This would allow for some brillient and interesting scenarios.

Cheers steve

[Luomu 10]

The AI needs more customizability. The separate enemy/friendly skill sliders are a great thing and already more than most games offer, but I would like to also adjust AI spotting skills with a slider. setEyeSight command per unit would be good too.

[SteveJA 12]

but I would like to also adjust AI spotting skills with a slider. setEyeSight command per unit would be good too.

With upmost respect i dont understand why i might want to do this, surly their sight is already nicely tuned (IMO) maybe to increace on decrease difficulty?? prehaps an example would help me understand.

[Luomu 10]

With upmost respect i dont understand why i might want to do this, surly their sight is already nicely tuned (IMO) maybe to increace on decrease difficulty?? prehaps an example would help me understand.

Just to increase the game's versatility. Some mods (like ACE) increase AI spotting ranges so obviously some people want more challenge. And if someone wants to make a single-player sneaking mission, making the AI a bit blinder would be great. Something like Metal Gear Solid :)

A functional camouflage system (vs. AI) would be the best solution, but I don't see that added in the near future...

[SteveJA 12]

Fair enough, i guess it might also improve ai reactions to long range sniper fire.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

The AI needs more customizability. The separate enemy/friendly skill sliders are a great thing and already more than most games offer, but I would like to also adjust AI spotting skills with a slider. setEyeSight command per unit would be good too.

Not good enough, but setSkill_array is a start.

[wraith_v 11]

I would like to see the AI act better under fire, several times i've had them turn a slight mishap into a massive cluster f***.

For example; we were walking along when a burst of AK fire hits one of my guys and instead of taking cover and returning fire they just stood there until each one of them was rolling around on the ground (the enemy AI must have been set to shoot to annoy :P). After several frustrating minutes of reviving them only to have them get shot AGAIN moments later.

Eventually all of them died except for number 2 who i had managed to revive, but for some reason he didn't want to obey orders and preferred to dawdle a hundred metres behind me - and he could run fine. Needless to say he didn't last long against the BRDM that rolled along the road.

There is also a couple of ROE's that might be good to add

- return fire

- stealth - similar to return fire but they equip stealth weapons if they have them

- AT weapons hold - prevents AI from using AT weapons if they have them, all too often i find myself wanting the AI to fire at enemy soldiers and not waste their rockets on trees (as 2 did before the BRDM rolled up).

Also I really hate it when they spam 'go i'll cover', especially when im trying to tell them to do something important like heal someone. Maybe this could be removed because it isn't particularly informative.

Edited March 29, 2010 by Wraith_V
spelling errors

[instagoat 133]

I don´t know if CQB is still a topic in here, but I thought since the other thread is gone now I´ll repost it here, since it seems relevant. I did a very very basic testing setup to see how AI uses cover, and moves as a squad.

I also did a test using ZeusAI, but couldn´t spot any distinct difference in casualty numbers, movement or anything of the sort.

I had some other test setups with hesco barriers perpendicular to the testing area, five placed in a row (to see if AI would prefer firing over moving sideways into nearby cover: in most cases they didn´t, even if they were slower in aquiring their target than their opponent.) Another test involved a more complicated maze built of Hesco barriers, where AI would, instead of moving trough provided doorways, clipped trough the barriers instead and right into enemy fire.

I´m also testing a setup now with barriers and a machinegun nest (the warfare one), to see if the AI really doesn´t notice killzones, or if its just slow at doing so.

The only way to really find out where the flaws in the AI lie is trough testing like this. Most environments are way too cluttered, and you lack oversight when testing, which is why I built these things so I could actually see what was going on.

Hope it´s at least a little bit helpful.

Cheers

Insta

Edit: Forgot to add that one of the MAJOR issues in 1.05 is friendly fire, especially from vehicles that use explosive ammunition such as the AAVP. I´m also trying to find out under which situations these occur most often.

Edited March 29, 2010 by InstaGoat

[M.Andersson(SWE) 4]

Make it possible for me as Team leader to order AI

to turn ENGINE/LIGHTS OFF...PLEASE..

Put them in stealth isnt working daytime..Not even in

night time they do it...

[DomZ 15]

High command in Arma 2 has never been capable of getting infantry squads to manoeuvre once they are engaged in combat. Move orders by a high commander are ineffective for the same reason that squad commander move orders are. When a squad commander tells all the squad to disengage the squad will move slowly to the next waypoint, but there is no way to make them move rapidly. Injured soldiers are a problem because the squad will only move as fast as the slowest member. It would be good to have an order that gives the command of a squad to the highest rank unit in the best condition with respect to mobility. Another order could be “Don’t wait for Injured/damagedâ€, which would apply to all move commands, which would require a “Do wait for Injured/damaged†command to switch it off. This command would need to available at squad and high command level.

Currently a squad can be ordered to move slow, normal and fast in high command. These orders have no effect once the squad is engaged (all movement is very slow). The disengage command probably also needs to be available at high command level.

All this makes high command much less fun than it could be, because troops cannot be manoeuvred once near the enemy. Any battle requires manoeuvre, because otherwise it is not possible to use effective tactics.

[Lethn 10]

The A.I needs to react on their damn own, I don't like the fact that when I put them on "Engage at will" it seems to take half an hour for them to detect an enemy if I am for instance letting them gun for me in a tank. As it currently stands they need far too much baby sitting, it would actually be nice to see them work on their own independently more when you give them orders and when you do let them work independently it would also be nice to see them not take half an hour to do it.

The A.I driving is also still horrible, heavy vehicles that can run over trees and the like do fairly good as long as they stick to the roads but it is worthless putting them through the paces in a forest or in any place that requires a minor amount of intelligent co-ordination. I have also had stupid incidents when it comes to using light vehicles like humvees with A.I where they sit there for half an hour trying to do a three point turn only to repeatedly bash into a tree or rock and they don't seem to make any effort to realize that they are in fact bashing into a tree or rock.

The detection needs to be improved a lot, there are some impressive sparks of intelligence at times but overall the reason they act so dumb right now largely seems to be because they can't see that tree or object right in front of them.

It would be very nice as well if we could also see some fixing up done on the A.I for detecting vehicles and being detected by vehicles, I've had plenty of times where an ally not controlled by me or an A.I controlled by me has ended up running over an entire freaking squad of my troops on foot purely because the A.I just didn't seem to recognize that either of them were there.

[chaplainDMK 10]

I hope BIS makes a brand spanking new engine for ArmA 3. I think the idea of endlessly throwing new stuff onto a 10 year old engine (basicaly, its just the OFP:CWC engine i think) is fundementaly flawed.

I know BIS probably doesent have the resources for such a thing, but I can always hope. :D

If they make a new engine they could get rid of the awkward OFP era AI mistakes (10 years later, and they still cant freaking drive a truck down a road!).

And they should get the guy that made the OFP:CWC & Resistance campaigns back, those were awsome :D

[CarlGustaffa 4]

A new Behaviour mode, "PATROL", that fits in between "AWARE" and "COMBAT". The new "PATROL" mode should never utilize bounding overwatch until "engageable" enemy is known, which would take them to "COMBAT" mode. When clear signal is given, they go back to "PATROL" mode (or previous mode?).

My suggestions about this mode:

1) Make sure ForceSpeed/LimitSpeed works. In "COMBAT" mode, these commands may halt a group completely. Not sure what causes this, but it definately feels like it's being buggy. Speed mode "LIMITED" is certainly not enough.

2) Alertness same as in "COMBAT" mode.

3) Rifles in raised mode. These guys are hunting for a suspected enemy. This is key, since regular patrols can be achieved in other modes.

4) Kneel relatively often and SL(/scout) should use binocs. Always "travel" in up stance. All members follow leaders stance. As kneeling during a stop is known to be highly temporary, nobody should lie down. Constantly going full stance change would be tiresome.

5) Should work with all formations. Scripted version will only work with "FILE" and "DIAMOND" formations, due to "COMBAT" mode being the only one that uses raised weapons, and "COMBAT" mode enforces bounding in all other formations.

6) Vehicles should stick to roads and not use lights. ForceSpeed/LimitSpeed should also be enforced on vehicles (or not?), that might improve the use of convoys. User now has choice of a "SAFE" convoy where lights are used, and a tactical convoy without lights. This is important since in Arma vehicles seems to have civilian lights, not military dimmed and with spread limitors. To force lights off, you have to use "COMBAT", but now some vehicles are not following the road.

7) Good circular security. The last man (or two in non column formation types) always cover the back. I realize backwards movement is tricky (or even impossible), but should always face backwards during a halt. Security should be organized as 1=0°, 2=45°, 3=-45°, 4=90°, 5=-90°, 6=135°, 7=-135°, 8=45° again, for groups where size allows this. Divide sectors to larger sectors for smaller groups. A 4 man group would cover 90° each, one being rear security man. A 3 man group would have to cover 120° each with no rear guy.

8) A group in "AWARE" mode (normal patrol), should go into "PATROL" mode when a new unknown contact is detected within a certain radius. If radius is too high (low knowsAbout done via info sharing scripts etc) to engage (or be engaged by, i.e. enemy Choppers at "safe" distance), the group remains in "AWARE" mode. If contact turns out to be friendly, they go back to "AWARE" mode. If contact is hostile, they go to "COMBAT" mode.

9) Default formation should be "COLUMN", but must also be made look good in "FILE", "STAG. COLUMN" and "WEDGE", maybe even "VEE"

Script:

This is how this could look, although a builtin version should behave better than this. Not possible with editor based inut alone afaik. Create a waypoint, and set it to Formation Column Compact or Delta (only ones that work, due to no bounding), and Behaviour Combat (will keep their weapons ready). In the On Act field of the waypoint, use:

nul = [group this] execVM "combatpatrol.sqf". Make sure they eventually see an enemy, and regular combat mode will be initiated. Note that script is highly simplified for testing purposes. At each stop you could also do a setFormDir, but it didn't turn out so good. "COMBAT" mode is the culprit here, as they will reroute to get to the waypoint, instead of going directly like in "AWARE" mode.

private ["_mode","_grp","_ldr","_nearestenemy","_i","_dir"];
_mode = "";
_nearestenemy = nil;
while {true} do {
sleep 1 + (random 2);
_grp = _this select 0;
_ldr = leader _grp;
_nearestenemy = _ldr findNearestEnemy getPos _ldr;
//player globalChat format ["%1, %2", _nearestenemy, typeName _ldr]; //Weird, sometimes OBJ-NULL, sometimes a weird 0xnnnnn number (nil) is returned.
if (isnil "_nearestenemy" || isNull _nearestenemy) then {
	_ldr forceSpeed 1;
	_mode = "HIGHWALK";
} else {
	_ldr forceSpeed -1;
	_mode = "AUTO";
};
sleep 0.03;
if (_mode == "HIGHWALK") then {
	if(speed _ldr < 3.5) then {
		_ldr setUnitPos "MIDDLE";
		if (random 1 < 0.1) then {
			_ldr spawn {
				if (_this hasWeapon "Binocular") then {
					sleep 1.2;
					_this selectWeapon "Binocular";
					sleep 2.3;
				};
			};
		};
	} else {
		_ldr setUnitPos "UP";
	};
} else {
	_ldr setUnitPos "AUTO";
}; 
sleep 0.03;
_i = -1;
{
	_i = _i + 1;
	_dir = 0;
	if (isNull (assignedTarget _x)) then {
//player globalChat format ["%1", _x];
		_x setUnitPos unitPos _ldr;
		switch (true) do {
			case (_i == count (units _grp) - 1) : {_dir = 180; hintSilent "sniper"};
			case (_i % 8 == 1) : {_dir = 1 * (360 / count (units _grp))}; //45
			case (_i % 8 == 2) : {_dir = 1 * (-360 / count (units _grp))}; //-45
			case (_i % 8 == 3) : {_dir = 2 * (360 / count (units _grp))}; //90
			case (_i % 8 == 4) : {_dir = 2 * (-360 / count (units _grp))}; //-90
			case (_i % 8 == 5) : {_dir = 3 * (360 / count (units _grp))}; //135
			case (_i % 8 == 6) : {_dir = 3 * (-360 / count (units _grp))};//-135
		};
		_dir = _dir + getDir _ldr;
		_x doWatch [(getPos _x select 0) + 200 * sin _dir, (getPos _x select 1) + 200 * cos _dir];

	} else {
		_x setUnitPos "AUTO";
	};
} forEach units _grp;
_nearestenemy = nil;
};

[AnimalMother92 10]

A new Behaviour mode, "PATROL", that fits in between "AWARE" and "COMBAT"...

I heartily support this idea

[nkenny 1051]

Would a more appropriate nomenclature be 'ASSAULT'

Patrol being the stage when you don't know where the enemy is and must be prepared to react suddenly to contacts. ie: hitting the dirt.

-k