Ai thread

[^Th0mas^ 10]

Do BIS improve the AI in their patches?

[sidhellfire 0]

It's likely to be so, but for know it's not the top in priority list, since AI is almost superior. For know game needs some compatibility fixes/improvements in specific hardware setups and bugfixes for minor details.

[Raphier 0]

Some suggestion I would like to see in the future..

1. If the a member is wounded and the area is under heavy fire, AI should use a smoke grenade on the wounded and drag him away to safety and help as first priority.

2. during an encounter with enemy tank, AI should take it as first priority. Should go into safe and send AT-soldier with some other soldiers to destroy the tank, that being using stealthy approach and destroy it from best possible angle, side of from back.

3. Something screams me that AI with armored vehicle should stick with the vehicle whole the time and use it as a cover, most of the time, no lone wolfs.

4. AI should stack to the wall with entire team, while one is peeking and last man is checking their back. They could also use real-life tactics while crossing the streets :) like one is covering the road and second is going to the other side, then covering the road , so the other could cross now. (currently their crossing is totally random, no cm precision here, actually it feels like meters to me)

5. AI, I believe lack priorities. like if theres a waypoint that goes throught the tank, and they know they can't win it, they should avoid the tank. AI should understand between defending and attack. Wounded soldier must become the top priority.

6. Too realistic hopes I have :D

[fabrizio_t 58]

Cheers,

would you mind to post your impressions here: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=73139 ?

Sorry, i am trying to collect all AI-related stuff into just one place for reference.

[yarex 0]

AI could be more like human:

- Some can shoot better, some worse

- Some run away like a chicken when attack starts and commander or most of the team is killed

- Some are heroes and will not use cover

- Some will just find cover and hide

- Some can retreat under some circumstances

- Some can see in the nigh better, some worse

- Implement morale and exhaustion factor that will affect soldier behaviour in all conflicts

+ Also enemy could improve over time and be able to learn.... some rpg factors introduced would be cool

[dreday 1]

AI could be more like human:

- Some can shoot better, some worse

- Some run away like a chicken when attack starts and commander or most of the team is killed

- Some are heroes and will not use cover

- Some will just find cover and hide

- Some can retreat under some circumstances

- Some can see in the nigh better, some worse

- Implement morale and exhaustion factor that will affect soldier behaviour in all conflicts

+ Also enemy could improve over time and be able to learn.... some rpg factors introduced would be cool

Hehe, almost every one of those features is either already in the game or can be added by the mission designer.

Peace,

DreDay

[^Th0mas^ 10]

It's likely to be so, but for know it's not the top in priority list, since AI is almost superior. For know game needs some compatibility fixes/improvements in specific hardware setups and bugfixes for minor details.

The AI is good, but they need to improve the AI path finding and air.

[mr reality 0]

It's likely to be so, but for know it's not the top in priority list, since AI is almost superior. For know game needs some compatibility fixes/improvements in specific hardware setups and bugfixes for minor details.

The AI might of improved in combat, and arguably this is the most important aspect of the game. But AI in vehicles is retarded.

It would be ok if every mission that was made for arma 2, was a jump into action straight away type mission, but for those of us who like the immersion this game brings, the AI is absolutley a nightmare to control at times.

[killerwhale 1]

BIS has done a great job this time, the Ai is way better and engages enemy units from far. and all those other issues, I'm sure they will be fixed in the patches to come, but I'll have to upgrade my vidcard to play good:eek:

[^Th0mas^ 10]

The AI might of improved in combat, and arguably this is the most important aspect of the game. But AI in vehicles is retarded.

It would be ok if every mission that was made for arma 2, was a jump into action straight away type mission, but for those of us who like the immersion this game brings, the AI is absolutley a nightmare to control at times.

Yes, but the AI in vehicles havent improved much in 8 years, why should it improve much in a patch...

[rübe 127]

Have you already tried to make up a little map around the dam's? Have you already seen those hippie-soldiers rather going swimming instead of fighting?

Try place a group of soldiers on the dam itself (which is acting like a bridge).. not in formation, with a waypoint to hold the damn dam. Most soldiers of this group instantly head towards the lake, and as it seems, they don't even swimm, they like move on the ground of the lake and drown there, I guess.

Or simply stage a simple fight across the dam; two opposite teams on either side, each with waypoints (attack/search and destroy, or something) and watch both teams go swimming and having some fun there... hehe

In conclusion: please do something regarding the path-finding of soldiers and their strange favor for swimming, losing their weapons and thus their lives...

Noone sane would choose/prefer to swimm across a lake (where battle is going on), rendering himself totally helpless, instead of either going over the dam, circulating the lake or staying and shooting over the lake...

[bravo 6 0]

Sorry, i have not read the hole thread so maybe this was already discussed. If so, I'm sorry.

This video gives a demonstration though killing the surrendered ai :O

If you placed the SRRS gamelogic, add to an init field or init.sqf:

nul = [] spawn { waitUntil {!(isNil "BIS_SRRS_DEBUG_VIS")}; BIS_SRRS_DEBUG_VIS = true };

You will be able to see the state the units are in (see this table for what which color means: http://gist.github.com/124532)

Is it possible to create a distinct hidden side for "surrenders"?

This hidden side could be modified/improved with time in order to make the surrender soldiers more interactive/communicative and useful in its mean. Else the surrendering option is useless..

per example: When the enemy surrenders they could have several, random and different behaviors for each calculated situation.

It was said when the enemy surrenders they become part of civilian side.

This means they are useless and in some way nonsense, in my opinion.

If the enemy surrenders, they could not become part of civilian side, not animal side, but a special hidden side with the option to interact, dialog, communicate with the players or AI's in order to create more possibilities to the game, missions, mission makers and so on.

I thing its really limited when the enemy surrenders and become just a part of the civilian side, just think about.

Why not create a possibility to improve the behavior, actions, objectives, options when this "phenomenon" happen?

[sobrek 0]

Could anybody tell me, what makes AI gunners change my selected weapon of choice?

Not enough that you step into that useless magic action menu thing whenever you don't want it, now also the own AI sabotages my efforts not only by being unable to drive around obstacles and beeing blind and deaf...

Made me just insane the last minutes.

[Wolfish King 0]

I just wanted to drop something in here.

I installed Battlefield 2 again because my cousin bought it a few days ago and I thought it would be fun to play it with him.

But first I played some single player. And damn, now I'm looking at those bots and I'm surprised. After all those years. They are smart as hell and they are one of the most dopest bots I've seen. And I'm a hardcore gamer.

They throw grenades when you're on the roof. They try to knife you when you're close and thats damn funny. I know that isn't that special but the way they use the knife is so nice. Also they just run like hell when you try to run em over with a vehicle.

So how hard is it? That game is like 4 years old.

[^Th0mas^ 10]

I just wanted to drop something in here.

I installed Battlefield 2 again because my cousin bought it a few days ago and I thought it would be fun to play it with him.

But first I played some single player. And damn, now I'm looking at those bots and I'm surprised. After all those years. They are smart as hell and they are one of the most dopest bots I've seen. And I'm a hardcore gamer.

They throw grenades when you're on the roof. They try to knife you when you're close and thats damn funny. I know that isn't that special but the way they use the knife is so nice. Also they just run like hell when you try to run em over with a vehicle.

So how hard is it? That game is like 4 years old.

I thought so as well. But if you think thats great, try out the bots in Quake Wars. They are great. Dice didnt spend much time on their BF2 bots because the focus was on the multiplayer part. They never improved the bots in any patches, and didnt allow as many bots as players on each map. They are simply put in to practice against. But the AI is still great. The path finding is very good, so it cant be THAT hard.

[SaBrE_UK 0]

Once they've fixed the AI bugs I reckon it'll be a great game to play. One thing, though. Is there a way to make the AI run to cover when shot from a distance? Seeing them crouch and search the horizon kills the immersion as a bullet is a pretty scary thing. Perhaps they could fire some rounds in general direction of shot whilst running to cover?

[Wolfish King 0]

I thought so as well. But if you think thats great, try out the bots in Quake Wars. They are great. Dice didnt spend much time on their BF2 bots because the focus was on the multiplayer part. They never improved the bots in any patches, and didnt allow as many bots as players on each map. They are simply put in to practice against. But the AI is still great. The path finding is very good, so it cant be THAT hard.

Wow damn, first time someone replied AND it was no flaming, hellll yeaaa haha.

I will mos def check out ET because that cousin also asked me if that game was something cool, I told him it was pretty dope, I only played the demo online.

But nice to see someone agreeing and even though DICE didn't spend time on those bots, they are better than ArmA bots, lol. Better with the things I mentioned. Things people wanna see since 2003 or something.

I mean how nice would it be to have bots taking cover behind a wall, shoot, head down, shoot again instead of go prone and just lay there looking-through-the-wall-I-can-see-you-but-can't-shoot bots.

[^Th0mas^ 10]

Yes! I think that proves that AI path finding can be done! Though ArmA II is a much bigger game then BF2.

[Cellus 10]

I thought so as well. But if you think thats great, try out the bots in Quake Wars. They are great. Dice didnt spend much time on their BF2 bots because the focus was on the multiplayer part. They never improved the bots in any patches, and didnt allow as many bots as players on each map. They are simply put in to practice against. But the AI is still great. The path finding is very good, so it cant be THAT hard.

Firstly, all the maps in QW could probably fit into Utes. So it shouldn't be too hard to fix their path-finding. And they were still idiots. They stand out in the open, they take on tanks and turrets with small arms, and they will continually spawn and rush out the same door that a tank is camping for an entire map. They don't cover their team mates, never set up cross-fires and rarely take even basic orders. I've seen ArmAII AI act better in every way. On foot anyway. I don't let Razor drive anymore. Not since... the accident.

Mind you, Razor does the whole 'cover while flanking', 'clear area before administering aid', 'suppressive fire when ambushed' and so on a lot better than I've seen the normal AI. Maybe better AI will come with increased knowledge of how to set them up in the editor. Whenever the editing tools are released I suppose. I gave up SP at Manhatten for the bugs and have been playing MP, mainly Evo and Air Cav, so that's my comparison. AI takes a definite dive online - it's only barely better than the human players :j:

[Axel88 10]

The AI in ARMA I is very good. I am impressed by the chain of command and the flanking maneuvers and the good balance of AI accuracy in the different difficulty settings. I would very much like to really be living in FEAR of AI snipers who are able to engage at the SAME if not greater range of players as AI is usually all too easily defeated by out ranging them.

I would like to point out the AI in "Stalker - Clear Sky" it is the best I have seen. They take cover hurl insults with their genades that are well placed and explode on impact. They actually back off and try to camp you... if under fire they hunker down and try to survive. This can be used against them I have had friendles forcing them into cover and then been able to snipe them from a flanking position. I have seen the work in teams... in particular a pair was using a LMG and Binoculars to spot me and waste me. They use surpressing fire and speculation fire.

Urr the lights on their heads is pretty darn silly.

Also in Stalker the animal AI has something to teach us for human AI. They have a "Strength in numbers" or "pack mentality" ability which makes the flee in face od superior forces or attack aggressivly when having the upper hand.

Surrender I think would be a huge negative to play because i would hate to see the men gunned down remorselessly. This should only be iomplemented if murdering surrendering troops cause the player to fail missions. and disabled in multi player and replaced with attempts to flee then regrouping.

---------- Post added at 03:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:25 PM ----------

I just wanted to drop something in here.

I installed Battlefield 2 again because my cousin bought it a few days ago and I thought it would be fun to play it with him.

But first I played some single player. And damn, now I'm looking at those bots and I'm surprised. After all those years. They are smart as hell and they are one of the most dopest bots I've seen. And I'm a hardcore gamer.

They throw grenades when you're on the roof. They try to knife you when you're close and thats damn funny. I know that isn't that special but the way they use the knife is so nice. Also they just run like hell when you try to run em over with a vehicle.

So how hard is it? That game is like 4 years old.

BF2 should be used as an example of everything that a game like Arma is trying to avoid.

The AI on those tiny maps is following VERY strict paths. They behave the same way each time and I would never use them as an example of good AI. Also they are in very limited numbers which saves CPU time. A lot of you don't know it but for each and every AI present CPU time is required also if online each and every AI needs collision detection running constantly and that eats up bandwidth and server time. So the major problem with AI is that it eats up enormous amounts of CPU time that most player will be wanting used on their own player and other players. Remember back in the days of Battlefield Vietnam when adding too many bots burned up all CPU time and lagged hell out your system ? :p

The ambitious scope of a game like Arma is both the attraction and major problem. Once you take into consideration the enormous problem of running so much AI over such a large and complicated terrain you understand the actuality of the triumph that is Arma.

Congratulations Bohemia Interactive and thanks very much.

[dmarkwick 261]

It has to be mentioned also that BF2 bots are most likely the beneficiaries of a heavily node-based map. Meaning that the entire map is covered with linked nodes for navigation usage and good pathfinding is as simple as selecting the shortest path from one node to another. In ArmA2 the AI has to make the same decision on a map with no nodes at all. I've been watching the ArmA2 AI on not only the two default maps, but on a map that I imported and they make great use of cover and can find their way to almost any spot using just their native AI.

[Wolfish King 0]

Of course I knew this was coming, the small map thing.

I understand, but, things like avoiding vehicles and throwing grenades on the roof should be possible right? Or am I wrong?

[dmarkwick 261]

Of course I knew this was coming, the small map thing.

Well, it's not so much a small map thing as it is a node navigation thing.

I understand, but, things like avoiding vehicles and throwing grenades on the roof should be possible right? Or am I wrong?

Yes, it should be possible :)

[Balgorg 10]

There has been an improvement in the AI, in Arma bots used to stream out of a town, endlessly into your gunfire. You could just stay in one place and soon the whole town would empty itself on one street.

In Arma 2 the bots tend to hide, and stay put, and you have to go in after them, or they will suddenly appear round a corner having found you. They are still dumb as shit, and often never react when shot, or their team mates take a hit. They also wont get out of trucks despite shooting at them repeatedly. Once they see you they are so acurate.

An annoying glitch with the ai units is how they can sometimes take a number of rounds befor they are finnished, and tend to sort-of fold in their middles, it looks rather stupid.

It still amazes me though how Arma 1 and 2 can handle so many AI units running and gunning all at the same time, despite the flaws nothing can match the huge scale.

[^Th0mas^ 10]

AI did improve with 1.02 but the driving AI is still bad. Please keep working on it. :)