Ai thread

[Flash Thunder 10]

http://www.bistudio.com/developers-blog/real-virtuality-going-multicore_en.html

Bravo BIS and the programmers! :D

Multi-core support!

:yay:

[McArcher 0]

I want these multicore AI to be able to drive THROUGH FOREST, hitting trees or finding path between them , depending on heavy/light vehicle type!

[ZeosPantera 0]

I want these multicore AI to be able to drive THROUGH FOREST, hitting trees or finding path between them , depending on heavy/light vehicle type!

Agreed. If my following AI in tanks get to a wooded area behind me they throw the brakes on and have a cup of tea. I asked for this fix recently

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=89995

It would basically allow you, when you lead a convoy, to remove the path-finding all together and just record YOUR movements and have the AI repeat PERFECTLY. No waypoints, no obstacle avoidance. If I stop and spin around then head north at 65KPH into a wall they do the same with the only movement restriction being a gap between me and them.

[Estar 10]

Sharing is caring. Old Ghost Recon AI.

http://www.ghostrecon.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=52927&st=0

I agree. The AI in that game was very good.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I want these multicore AI to be able to drive THROUGH FOREST, hitting trees or finding path between them , depending on heavy/light vehicle type!

As engineer, I have had to do "path prepping" (not sure what this is in english) for vehicles so they could get through woods. Using detonating cord/fuse and using a few revolutions around each tree (based on a table), was the quick (and very very fun way :p). Unfortunately we only used this method once, as in a short demonstration only. Chainsaw was the other. It sucked! But, we got the vehicles (from unarmored personnel carriers to Leopard tanks) through.

According to the tankers, although they had the mass to knock down trees, they would typically not do it for the fear of becoming stuck (wartime might be different, I forgot to ask). They are also tactically extremely vulnerable in woods: Difficulty seeing anything, moving anything, and spotting potential threats. Better to stay near the forest edge and use the treeline as "concealment" (blending in with the background trees).

So, although I find AI driving skills through woods extremely low, I don't think its all that unrealistic. Keep in mind that heavy woods usually have heavy undergrowth that is not very good modelled in Arma2, physics wise. Annoying, yes. Realistic, I believe so.

[ZeosPantera 0]

First off, Bravo to you BI for improving the AI Convoy following skills.

Unfortunately, all my vehicle AI now try to stay in their numbered order. And when I say try I really mean NEVER EVER GET OUT OF ORDER.. Here are some example pictures.

Here is the column of myself and seven M1A2 TUSKs going down the road in a standard column. Note every tank has a higher increment.

Now they will stay like that perfectly fine until you make a sudden move or ANY tank gets stuck and placed out of order. Then this happens.

That photo depicts myself followed by the 5,6,7 tank (because that is the next number-set vehicle) and then tank 8,9,10 is blocked from escape by tanks 16,15,14 and 13,12,11 in that narrow street. Because of this 6 out of my 7 following vehicles will not follow me!

Please institute some sort of range based organizational system. Nearest tank/ai at any given time given a formation or return to formation(regroup) command will simply stack in the easiest order. That order would need to be constantly determined.. most likely every 5 seconds or so. That way any unit found behind a pipe,tree,house or falling off a hill would constantly fall to the back of the order until it catches the rest of the column.

As far as forest navigation a very simple solution in a column situation would be a clone move/throttle formation. If I(leader) navigate through dense trees and knock some down the following AI would simply repeat the same actions. I am not talking about path-finding with a breadcrumb system. I mean take all the AI out of it. Just repeat the exact co-ordinate, rotational, throttle the leader vehicle just used to navigate. Only when encountering an immovable obstacle (not a tree) will standard AI routines take back over temporarily. I imagine the best method to activate this would be a new formation "clone" perhaps.

I could also go into great detail over my ideas for AI control with mouse-Gui instead of the Function key OR in addition to them and Vehicle AI icon combining (there is no reason for a single Tusk to take up 4 AI slots on my screen).

Edited December 24, 2009 by ZeosPantera

[ron533 0]

HI,

Don't think I've seen this suggestion here, but would very much like to see the command "Hold Fire unless fired upon/detected".

Many times I try to sneak with my AI team to an enemy position but can't get close enough because my AI detects a man 1000m away and start shooting and gives away my position...

If tell them just to "Hold Fire" they wont fire even if detected and get shot at...

I can't always hear the shots if I tell a group to flank and they are behind a hill, and it's never fast enough to prevent them getting murdered...

So to "fix" the realism and create "Smarter AI" and not Kamikaze AI - Let them hold fire,

but fire back if detected and/or fired upon to self protect without me having to give them any further order...

Let me know if this is implemented in any way which I don't know about...

Thanks

[froggyluv 2133]

Let me know if this is implemented in any way which I don't know about...

Thanks

They already do that but I don't know how calibrated the system is that determines when they break command and fire back as I'm usually too busy ducking for cover when I hear the enemy open up.

They should implement a "F*ck you!" meter that rises the more that you endanger their lives frivolously with a hold fire command that results in them taking injuries or heavy suppresion. :p

[ACPL Jon 68]

Was AI using AT against infantry bug reported\posted already?

[spamurai 3]

I'd like to see:

"Can You See Them?" Command. This Command gets every member of the team to check the current list of Targets and remove the ones that are no longer visible or active (dead) to any current unit in the group. I've noticed that many times when my group encounters large numbers of targets the Command>Target list of available targets gets confusing very fast. Some targets become uncertain... the AI will not respond to them because they may no longer know where that target is (or the target is actually dead). The list is then full of targets that are invalid or not a threat and makes it hard to prioritize those that are a threat.

"Break Contact" Command. Tells the AI disengage and make a controlled withdrawal away from known enemies to either a designated waypoint or an area they know to be safe... like a town your team controls. They will utilize behaviors like deploying smoke and covering fire to withdraw and try and keep obstacles such as buildings between them and the enemy.

"Rescue Me/Him" Command. Tells AI to come get you, heal you or drag you into cover. If used on another man, it could be used to tell the Corpsman or medic to go to the aid of another unit. The AI should use behaviors like suppression/covering fire, deploying smoke and using vehicles appropriately. Non-Medic type AI will drag/carry their targets to safety. Crippled vehicles that have the ability should deploy smoke to aid themselves if they become crippled, or come to the aid of other vehicles in their group.

"Orbit/Patrol Location" Command. Tells an AI to go to the waypoint and set up a patrol. Pilots will "orbit" the location of the waypoint instead of flying and hovering like a target drone over it. Ground Units would "wonder" the area around the waypoint as if they were patrolling it.

"Passengers Dismount!" Command. Similar to the Disembark command, except only those members of the group occupying cargo slots in vehicles will execute the instruction.

-------------

In ArmA 1 it became possible (in a patch for warfare mode) to set multiple waypoints for the group. This function is available in the High Commander Mode (Cntrl+Spacebar), but not for regular group control. This feature is sorely missed in ArmA2 as it greatly improves the reliability of pathing your AI over long distances without effort.

--------------

Need a command function to reset the brevet of the members in the group. Often after prolonged existence your groups "brevet" (F1-F10 numbers) will have gaps in it (from lost units). Group members are no longer neatly ordered in sequence. This creates disorder which hampers the management of the group. A command to simply renumber the surviving units would be beneficial.

----------------

Quick Context Command Mode needs to list the Group Colors and Vehicles like the older ArmA 1 Spacebar mode did. Assigning colors to sub-groups is meant to make things easier and more efficient... but the new Context select mode complicates things because it takes too long to select units by their assigned color (3 clicks + a command).

One way to make things easier... is to simply make use of the already present High Commander function. When a player assigns colors to members of the group or has a vehicle.... allow them to use a modified Cntrl+Spacebar mode to give orders to these new sub-groups. So, instead of seeing individual units, the Command Bar shows the Colored Group Icons and the Vehicle Group (composed of the vehicle crew). This would immensely improve squad command functions and put to use the rarely available commander mode. Please... I beg you to improve squad command.

----------------

Improve the Context Command cursor to have a center point. "Pointing" at small and distant objects can be painful sometimes. Also, the cursor needs to ignore objects not in the players view. Sometimes its hard to given an order like "Move To" when standing to close to an object like a vehicle. The Cursor picks up the nearby object making it hard to give orders without first moving away from it. This might happen, for example, when you are using the hood of your HUMVEE for cover while trying to order the AI to engage a target firing on you.

-----------------

Need the HUD Orientation "Clock" added back to the game. In ArmA 1, a sighting included the HUD clock to point out how "Enemy at 1 o'clock" was to your orientation.

-----------------

When an AI squad leader gives the player a Target , the Red Target bracket points at the target the AI Leader wants you to shoot at. This function should be present when the Player (as Leader) gives/assigns targets to his AI group members. This will help the player see and know what his AI are Watching/Targeting/Attacking by making thier targeting waypoints visible. This is especially useful for Players Leading vehicle crews or have other human players in their groups.

Overall.... HUD waypoints are hard to see... they should be made brighter and have better contrast so they do not get lost on the players screen (like in the terrain).

Edited January 4, 2010 by Spamurai

[NoRailgunner 0]

Please make a threat-priority list of primary targets and secondary targets aswell as proper implementation how to use different ammo types. For example:

1) AI should engage the highest threat first instead of waisting time and ammo on low threats.

2) AI should use weapons and ammo properly - no more AT (HEAT/HE) rounds on infantry and no shooting with AA launcher on vehicles.

Implement a advanced micro-management so the player is able order his AI teammates precisely.

Add proper reports and fire commands:

ALERT - leader to unit eg "Three"

DIRECTION - general direction to the target relative to the unit eg "Front"

DESCRIPTION - if the target isnt obvious give a brief description eg "Troops behind outpost"

RANGE - in meter eg "300"

METHOD OF FIRE - depends on weapon eg "Rapid fire"

COMMAND TO OPEN FIRE - eg "At my command" or "At my signal" and only "Fire" if the leader wants immediate fire

[spamurai 3]

The "Watch/Scan" command for vehicle AI can not be canceled. Once the AI in a vehicle are ordered to Scan the horizon or Watch a direction, they do so forever. There is no way to cancel that behavior once it's set, unlike Infantry AI who can be snapped out of it with the Cancel Target command.

If you order the AI to disembark, you can then give them the Cancel Target command and then order them to embark the vehicle again and they'll resume their default scanning behavior.

[Flash Thunder 10]

@Spamurai

Totally agree

@NoRailgunner

Agree.

[Flash Thunder 10]

AI need to be less accurate, or the accuracy settings in the game options should work I have mine currently set to 50% yet im still being sniped out of helos by guys on mounted machine guns in less than 10 shots and units will do a 360 and shoot me when I've yet to compromise my positions.

Very frusterating, they got magical aim, have no reaction time whatsover and it looks like recoil/fatigue and wounds dont even affect them, why would I want to play against AI who are aimbots and wallhackers?

Please fix this immediately.

[Schancky 10]

Yeah Flash i agree. I want to be able to have the units less accurate, so battles are much longer and more realistic, not jsut 30 seconds of BANG BANG BANG ending up with once who squad dead.

[Takko 10]

Its all there

"Can You See Them?" Command. This Command gets every member of the team to check the current list of Targets and remove the ones that are no longer visible or active (dead) to any current unit in the group. I've noticed that many times when my group encounters large numbers of targets the Command>Target list of available targets gets confusing very fast. Some targets become uncertain... the AI will not respond to them because they may no longer know where that target is (or the target is actually dead). The list is then full of targets that are invalid or not a threat and makes it hard to prioritize those that are a threat.

Let your units aim for a target and you unit will respond if he is ready to fire,

which means he got him in sight.

"Break Contact" Command. Tells the AI disengage and make a controlled withdrawal away from known enemies.

I think that is also there, somewhere under 1-x, near the flank right

"Rescue Me/Him" Command.

If your friend is lying there, press 6, and chose action

"treat Soldier X" or something like that.

"Passengers Dismount!" Command. Similar to the Disembark command, except only those members of the group occupying cargo slots in vehicles will execute the instruction.

If 4-1 does not work, try 6-1

[spamurai 3]

Its all there

Let your units aim for a target and you unit will respond if he is ready to fire,

which means he got him in sight.

I don't understand this. Telling a units to target individual items in the target list; A) Doesn't always have the AI report if they can see it or not, often they say nothing or do nothing. They yell Engaging! if they need to move out of formation to attack the target, but they never report Ready to fire!. B) This would be slow and tedious to do. What the request is for is an automatic "Check our Target List" command.

I think that is also there, somewhere under 1-x, near the flank right

This one doesn't exist. Or at least not in the way you might be thinking. The Advance/Stay Back/Flank commands simply customizes spacing in your formation. Telling a unit to Stay back essentially tells him to keep "X meters" behind me.

If 4-1 does not work, try 6-1

Again, the Disembark command tells everyone to get out, so does the Eject command. You have to individually select units or group them in colors and just give such commands to units in Cargo. The suggestion is for a smarter command so the SPACEBAR selects and then Units decide how to execute the command based on their position in the vehicle; You don't want your Pilot to Eject or your IFV crew to eject while trying to quickly dismount the Riflemen when under fire!

Drivers: Halt/land the vehicle.

Gunners/Commanders: Suppressing Fire, Deploy Smoke (Danger Mode), or nothing (Safe/Aware/Stealth Mode).

Cargo: Run their Dismount drill (FSM) for their combat mode.

The Big hurdle in being the Commander of AI is the interface can be slow and speed and efficiency is everything when considering how good the AI can be or their success rate at playing the game (especially against other Players).

Think of them as more complex Macro's instead of individual commands.

[instagoat 133]

The AI is likely not too inaccurate, but too aggressive (borderline suicidal). They move around a lot, and don´t exploit cover, outright ignoring buildings.

I don´t understand the whole discussion about the precision. There are much more pressing matters, such as consistency (you never know wether the AI does what you told it to do.) and its being suicidal, ie ignoring killzones, not withdrawing when unable to spot an enemy shooting at it, or when superior enemy forces such as tanks appear on the scene. (They only withdraw when they have taken 50 % casualties or so depending on their skill setting.)

I´ve also pondered about "objective logics" which force the AI into different behavioural patterns. For example, a "defend" logic placed in a town would force the defending AI to occupy buildings, automatically lay mines in the street and set up fire-pockets and ambushes, while the other side would get an "Assault" logic, which forces them to slow and deliberate advancing.

Right now I think the urban combat that will be likely be one of the more common occurances in Operation Arrowhead would be less than fantastic: At the base, the AI is the most excellent I´ve yet seen in a game. However, they are still lacking in the details, and sometimes sorely so.

[Tonci87 163]

I would like the Ai to deploy smoke more often without needing an AI Mod for this.

I would also like AI Tanks to deploy automatically when beeing under fire from an RPG/Tanks or Aircrafts

[callihn 10]

I hate the way AI Choppers crash into each other, makes some mission impossible,

better driving, i hate the way the spin on a road when a groupe of trucks drive

DITO!

I'll also add that I hate spending twenty minutes telling them to get in the damn vehicle while they crawl around prone acting like retards until a plane comes and bombs us and ATs seem to have some issues with actually firing on vehicles, even when told to do so, the other day I sent two groups of eight ATs after one tank, one right after another, both groups died without firing a single shot, even though they were told to engaguge and even told to attack the tank, they still stood there looking at it until it mowed them down with it's machine guns. Another thing I don't like is AI contridicting me, when I tell them to do something I don't want to hear negative or no can do I want it done, I know we are taking fire too, that's I want them to get in the tank. Also they need to take smarter routes when flying, I hate for them to fly through the town and get shot down when I told them to go to a location well outside of town.

[maturin 12]

Yeah Flash i agree. I want to be able to have the units less accurate, so battles are much longer and more realistic, not jsut 30 seconds of BANG BANG BANG ending up with once who squad dead.

Agreed, but mods like ACE take it too far, with enemies wasting an entire clip at 20m against stationary targets that aren't returning fire. It's mostly a short range problem, but so long as the AI doesn't fire from cover most of the time, making them stand in the open walking rounds onto a target for thirty seconds is unfair.

[callihn 10]

Agreed, but mods like ACE take it too far, with enemies wasting an entire clip at 20m against stationary targets that aren't returning fire. It's mostly a short range problem, but so long as the AI doesn't fire from cover most of the time, making them stand in the open walking rounds onto a target for thirty seconds is unfair.

Well I know one thing, the AI in ACE has no problem with using AA, 600mph, 1600m up and 1900m from target, one shot, one kill. :(

[Scheintot 10]

AI like in TrueRangeAI from Arma 1 was very realistic... cauz it was possible to fight with the AI from a distance between 1000 Meters.. Firefights in a range about 500- 700 meters are the best one for myself.

Thats more realistic. The A2 normal AI is not very good if we talk about the distance... and the zeuscombatAI is not the best one if we talk about the same but its a good AI mod.

[Petrikum 10]

Hello everyone. I brand new here. In short, I played in your ArmA2 and so decided to write a few comments in the hope that the developers will hear me.

In general the game fun, they are not real. Great comments about the intelligence bots. I do not mean mistakes and stupidity of intellect. I mean not really behavior!

Well, firstly, in close combat boots are falling in the middle of the village where the thread on the belly and shoot them while they do not withdraw. In a real battle for more than 15 seconds so do not lie down. And then quickly killed.

Soldiers have to move, to cover for armored personnel carriers and other obstacles were not penetrated.

Second. Sign system (waving his hands to the floor of the screen) is clearly not the case. Makhnii hand so you're in combat, and you will not be very fast! Another strange fact that both Russian and American troops use the same sign system. Well at least you would have asked how we communicate in battle (to be honest, mostly foul language:)).

The third is a tactic. She clearly does not correspond to the Russian troops. What we did not twig to break as in Stalingrad.

Now about the city.

Cities like eastern Europe since the Soviet Union! A must be similar at least for Russia. The architectural ensemble in general not the same! Where's happened to the Soviet - Russia's nine-panel? How terrible to look at and squalid hostel? Where in the end Perekop roads since the revolution ?:)).

Where luxury cottages of our "elite"? Still make normal police building, City Hall, hospital. Yes, and graffiti. But not everywhere, but only in certain areas on the edges of cities. And some areas that are too smooth. We have so nothing is built. Must need alleys, dead ends, cross-cutting yards and so on. The best example of this Peterburg.

Now about themselves Russian fighters.

Motorized rifle troops look like something is wrong. Too much gloss. Make them dirtier. The war did. Just not enough of other troops. Where Marines Russia? Where airborne troops? Where the field hospital, communications, artillery, and the builders of our gallant last? Motorized rifle troops is a common infantry. They were without artillery, hospital base and the other ineffective.

Civil also look like something awful. They've all ragged. I realize of course that war and all that, but why are they all things in the era of the USSR? Believe me, the whole world dressed alike. Only your Armani, Armani, and we have it from the basement .:)).

I hope my notes will help you. For more information, knocks on http://vkontakte.ru (Medianik Peter) or to the address petrikum@rambler.ru I can provide some materials.

Thank you for your attention!

Edited February 19, 2010 by Petrikum

[instagoat 133]

One thing that´d be cool would be a more diverse command system for the AI, ie, having squads split into the coloured groups by default (defined in the units config), and then have the squad leader only assign tasks to the fireteams instead of targets. IE:

"Yellow Team, Assault Kabanino." -> The fireteam leader of yellow team would then proceed with moving to that location and attempt to take it, coordinating with the remainder of the squad. Right now you can only tell Units to move to a location (Then they will prioritize moving over shooting), or attack a specific enemy (This requires lots of micromanagement, as Units will often ignore other enemies nearby and headlessly run after their target until they become isolated.). The Micromanagement is very problematic, in my opinion.

This would make it necessary for the AI to be much more careful, deliberate, precise, predicteable and autonomous than it is right now.

Summa summarum: Allow the AI to function without having to baby-sit it. Once that is achieved, the interface can be reworked.

You could toss out at least half the commands in the command menus for the leader, and drop the other half from the fireteam leaders menus. It would make handling AI much easier.

What I´d love to see in the future would be this:

-Task based Command System for the AI

-Actual Squad hierarchy, not using HC as a workaround.

-More careful and deliberate AI. This includes:

-Recognizing Killzones.

-Staying clear of streets or open areas in the presence of tanks.

-ALWAYS trying to move into cover when vehicles or helicopters are around.

-Putting priority to killing an enemy rather than moving (I have observed AI shooting at an enemy right in front of them, missing and then deciding to run just to get shot in the back.)

-AI automatically using buildings as cover, setting up ambushes and fire bases, planning and coordinating their movement. Emphasis on planning.

I know this is all castles in the clouds, however, even a little bit of improvement here and there would make an excellent AI even better. And for Arrowheads coming Urban environments, I at least expect the AI to not run around between buildings anymore without care and cohesion, or ignore buildings altogether.