Ai thread

[alpha125rbf 0]

The big difference between ArmA I and other shooters is that nobody really needs to shoot at you until you are dead with one shot. And in reverse - you don't need shooting at your target, you just kill it with one or two bullets.

This has to be redone. With mods (weapons dispersion at least) or by BIS.

[BongoBoy 10]

Wounded A.I.

I would like to see anyone who has been wounded to have a "crawl away" or "lay there and fight to the end behaivior".

Some guys might run away, some will give one last shot.

I guess wounding says it all.

Thanks.

[M.Andersson(SWE) 4]

"STAY IN THE GOD DAMN FORMATION" PLEEEEEEASE...

Vehicle convoys ALLWAYS get messed up couse AI´s just cant drive..

Please tell me you have fixed this...

[S!fkaIaC 10]

Posted this elsewhere... just wanted you to see what can be achieved

I could cry when I see this. Long time requested - and we were always told "impossible".

No blocking between the units visible, a dream!

In ArmA a few infantrymen in front of a bridge or a small door can never agree who can go first :D

Is it possible to utilize their code in any game, even in ArmA 2 ?

Edited May 6, 2009 by S!fkaIaC

[PhilippRauch 0]

But the AIchip video doesnt show really intelligent AI either, see how the 'Soldiers following a tank' break their formation to get around stuff? Be it with their tank or the others of the group, nice pathfinding but still not really 'good'. They totally go where they want/must to not crash into stuff, no matter what the orders are obviously.. Maybe they just need a main-node AI getting its way, then telling the others to follow? But clearly these little fellows go totally astray. Again it depends on what you want to achive and what commands the units get beforehand and during their endeavour, but as nice as this video is as useless this AI will become in battle, i guess.

BTW:

VBS2 can use Kynapse AI middleware (I think its from autodesk) soon... but for this they use an API, cannot with ArmaII ... (too many cheating possibilities i guess)

Edited May 6, 2009 by PhilippRauch

[stanko 10]

Found some very interesting info about OFP2 AI. I'd like to see this features in ArmA 2.

"- The AI value their lives and will not just hold their ground if retreat is the best tactical option.

- Killing enemy officers who help coordinate the enemy AI will often lead the enemy forces acting in a slower and less cohesive manner.

- Both the enemy and your squad have morale systems. They are affected by the perceived quality of their leadership. So, your squad may complain and eventually abandon you if you persist in, for example, running across open fields at machine gun emplacements."

[thaFunkster 0]

For myself one of the biggest things lacking in all combat simulations is an ai with more 'human' like qualities. The ai in OFP is very good taticaly, using gernades and flanking manouvers, but it is still lacking suppressive fire.

I'd love to see LMG used as they are intended, to lay down fire to get the enemy to keep their heads down as you move. Nothing frustrates me more than having the ai cooly pick you off because your fire is landing all around them, but not quite hitting them. I'd love to see a 'fear for life' in the ai. Not blindly running into a stream of bullets, but actaully keeping their head down and staying in cover.,

It maybe very hard to impliment and would have a drastic effect on gameplay. Some would argue that the game would loose a lot of the 'fun factor' because firefights would be more drawn out and not always have a desisive victory. At the same time it would really help with fire and move tatics. I'd love to have a support element under my command and able to tell them to hit an area with suppressive fire as I manouver my other men to a better position.

What does everyone thing and what other improvements or changes to the ai they would love to see?

COLINMAN

Excellent idea, I couldnt agree more. I have often thought this myself, a 'fear' built into the AI would be an excellent addition. It would be great to see panicking and surrendering - this cant be that hard to code in, take a look at the SWAT series - they pulled it off everytime no problems. THat was some fairly decent AI.

-------

stanko: That sounds awesome. Hmm, Im beggining to get more respect for the ol' DR. Still rootin more for ArmA2 though.

[flashbang151 0]

Sorry, but sometimes I've got the feeling nobody reads the infos.

The AI in Arma2 will surrender and will not accept suicide orders.

[wipman 1]

Hi, one problem that could appear with the AI supressive fire is the ammo; we and they have

less ammo than we'll have as combat units, sector patrols or long range patrols. We'll need

more inventary slots for the main weapon ammo to be able of offer a real volume of supressive

fire. And what will happen when the AIs spitt all their ammo...? we've to remember that in

the ArmA, many of the units don't have all their slot filled, like the AT soldiers that only have

x4 magazines for the main weapon, or the medic, who only have x6 magazines and have

x2 empty slots; i don't know why the medic must have that pointless slots number limit,

is really stupid to me. I think that after the AI drop all their ammo doing the supressive

fire... they gonna put the weapon at their back and gonna lay down as they do in the

ArmA, doing nothing; and as they're dumb... they wouldn't go to the next ammo crate or

corpse with a weapon or just with ammo for it's weapon, in case of do it, i think that they'll

do it in a very risky way that will resoult in it's death; just order an AI to go to an ammo

crate to swap his weapon or take some ammo, check how many turns he do to get to the

crate... i've seen chickens running less and with more sense for their food than any ArmA

AI running for ammo from a crate or vehicle. Let's hope that the Micro AI fixes this a bit,

otherwise will be better do it all "rambo style" and do it all yourself because you can't

trust

in the AI for do simple things.

Other "simple" thing... the AIs and the choppers or AA vehicles, they're 100% innacurate.

I've ordered an AI to shoot at a KA-52 and he depleeted the 750 rounds of the Viper without

hit a single time on the KA that was flying horizontaly at +500m from us; same with the

tanks, he fired like 200 rounds at a T72 without hit a single time, until that it shoot us

down with the main gun. Again... a shame.

Same with the AIs that i've ordered to manage the M163 as gunner, a Berkut flying arround

us at from 100 to 1500m, my AI dryed the Vulcan cannon without hit a single time on the

Berkut.

I hope that this gets fixed or made better in the ArmA2. Let's C ya

[NeMeSiS 11]

Hi, one problem that could appear with the AI supressive fire is the ammo; we and they have

less ammo than we'll have as combat units, sector patrols or long range patrols. We'll need

more inventary slots for the main weapon ammo to be able of offer a real volume of supressive

fire. And what will happen when the AIs spitt all their ammo...? we've to remember that in

the ArmA, many of the units don't have all their slot filled, like the AT soldiers that only have

x4 magazines for the main weapon, or the medic, who only have x6 magazines and have

x2 empty slots; i don't know why the medic must have that pointless slots number limit,

is really stupid to me. I think that after the AI drop all their ammo doing the supressive

fire... they gonna put the weapon at their back and gonna lay down as they do in the

ArmA, doing nothing; and as they're dumb... they wouldn't go to the next ammo crate or

corpse with a weapon or just with ammo for it's weapon, in case of do it, i think that they'll

ArmA1 AI goes into fleeing mode when they dont have a weapon and they face enemies, i guess its the same when they run out of ammo. In ArmA2 this can be extended with the surrendering option.

Also, the AI already can rearm themselves from death bodies/crates on their own. Though it should be more effective and done quicker. Especially when the player is the commander.

And honestly, stop using enters halfway a sentence, just let them run untill the end of the paragraph and then use enter once or twice. Your posts are really hard to read.

[wipman 1]

hi, sorry man, that's because my english sucks. Let's C ya

[avibird 1 154]

What are some of the AI limitations that you feel must be fixed for ARMA2.

1. AI AA and AT soldiers must have the ability to get more rounds when they are out from around the map.

2. AI soldiers must be able to use smoke as cover and not be able to see through smoke and objects.

3. AI must have the ability to deviate off there waypoints if enemy contact is made.

4. AI support vehicles must be a little better about driving into a hot fire zone to give support to units that are done/dead.

5. AI choppers need to be better about going after soldiers on the ground as well as going for repairs.

6. AI crew members needs to get away from the vehicle before it blows-up.

Here are some of my main concerns. I know people will have different concerns about the AI and BOHEMIA can't fix everything in one game.

I still feel overall the BOHEMIA AI from OFP1/ARMA1 are still the best AI hands down compared to other games but they still had some limitations that made me nuts.

Lets make a list and see how many things BOHEMIA improved to make the overall gameplay even better for us. In my opinion the AI is the most important element to this game.

Edited May 13, 2009 by AVIBIRD 1

[Maddmatt 1]

7. AI should be able to use different ammo types when appropriate, like switching from sabot to HEAT, AP to HE and so on. In ArmA 1 and OFP they will only switch to the next ammo type when the first one runs out.

[maddogx 13]

1. AI AA and AT soldiers must have the ability to get more rounds when they are out from around the map.

I assume you mean the AI should be able to grab ammo from fallen comrades. Yes, this would be a welcome feature. I remember something like this was released as an addon for ArmA1, but it would be nice if the AI did it automatically.

2. AI soldiers must be able to use smoke as cover and not be able to see through smoke and objects.

I'm not 100% sure but I believe it was mentioned somewhere that this will be implemented in A2.

3. AI must have the ability to deviate off there waypoints if enemy contact is made.

How do you mean? Unless you explicitly tell the AI to ignore enemy fire, they will defend themselves when under attack. Of course they will primarily follow their waypoints because that's what they're supposed to do.

4. AI support vehicles must be a little better about driving into a hot fire zone to give support to units that are done/dead.

This is mostly a mission design concern, less a general AI problem.

5. AI choppers need to be better about going after soldiers on the ground as well as going for repairs.

I haven't experienced any problems on the former. If the AI gunner on a chopper sees enemies on the ground, he will fire on them. As for repairs, again that is a mission design concern. The AI can't be made too autonomous or they will never reliably do what the mission maker wants them to.

6. AI crew members needs to get away from the vehicle before it blows-up.

100% agreed. In one preview video for Arma2 an AI was shown to instantly run away from incoming gunfire, so they seem to react better to danger. Hopefully the same goes for exploding vehicles.

[mcvittees 0]

The key thing I think the AI need - more than anything - is a sense of preservation for themselves and their squadmates.

Suppression & morale should be moddeled in the baseline game and not left for modders to script.

IMO this is and has always been, the single biggest AI flaw since OFP, everything else is gravy! ;)

[funnyguy1 0]

This is mostly a mission design concern, less a general AI problem.

I strongly disagree on that. MBTs and other vehicles rush into battle like medieval cavalry kamikaze style. This is the default AI behaviour and its wrong. MBTs are capable of fighting over great distances, why should they behave like infantry.

<IDEA>What about forcing the tanks not to approach the target closer than, I don't know 500m. That could depend on the type of the target and other conditions such as whether the target is visible or not at given distance. Wouldn't it be better than what we have now?</IDEA>

If I wanted such AI behaviour, e.g. for a dramatic effect I'd be my concern as a mission designer. Since it's a common thing imho it is a general AI problem.

Edited May 13, 2009 by funnyguy1

[old raven nl 1]

I believe 2 is already being fixed (sorry don't know where I heard that)

And they are also working on suppression.

Yes, to me suppression and morale are an important one.

And I really hope they will make better use of cover and not crawl on their belly all the time.

I saw the video from last year where the AI walked a street and keep to the sides, plus peek around corners etc.

I hope this level of advanced AI will make it in the game.

(better pathfinding and better use of cover and tactics)

btw.. does anyone know the location of that video.. I cannot find it anymore.

[maddogx 13]

I strongly disagree on that. MBTs and other vehicles rush into battle like medieval cavalry kamikaze style. This is the default AI behaviour and its wrong. MBTs are capable of fighting over great distances, why should they behave like infantry.

<IDEA>What about forcing the tanks not to approach the target closer than, I don't know 500m. That could depend on the type of the target and other conditions such as whether the target is visible or not at given distance. Wouldn't it be better than what we have now?</IDEA>

If I wanted such AI behaviour, e.g. for a dramatic effect I'd be my concern as a mission designer. Since it's a common thing imho it is a general AI problem.

I believe we both interpreted that part in different ways. Here the original quote:

4. AI support vehicles must be a little better about driving into a hot fire zone to give support to units that are done/dead.

I understood this as a request for AI controlled support vehicles (i.e. ambulances, ammo and fuel trucks etc.) to support combatants at the front line. This is obviously a mission design concern like I said.

I totally agree on your points about MBTs engaging from long distance, not rushing into the enemy etc., but I don't believe they are relevant here.

[Balschoiw 0]

Most of the suggestions already have been made.

The thread should be moved/merged with Arma2 Suggestions - AI thread

Lately the number of threads is rising and it´s getting confusing if people do not post in the appropriate places.

[funnyguy1 0]

I totally agree on your points about MBTs engaging from long distance, not rushing into the enemy etc., but I don't believe they are relevant here.

You're right, I totally didn't understand the post you were refering to. I just glimpsed at it and hit the reply button, by bad. You're also right that dealing with the support units is a mission design concern mainly. On the other hand, would be really cool if BIS/someone created a funtionall sandbox for automatic insertion/extraction/battlefield clearance (medevac?) (is that the proper term?) etc. It could be really helpfull for missionmakers.

[MoS 0]

just two keywords "cover" and "surpression" thats all the AI needs ;)

[avibird 1 154]

1. I assume you mean the AI should be able to grab ammo from fallen comrades. Yes, this would be a welcome feature. I remember something like this was released as an addon for ArmA1, but it would be nice if the AI did it automatically.

2. I'm not 100% sure but I believe it was mentioned somewhere that this will be implemented in A2.

3. How do you mean? Unless you explicitly tell the AI to ignore enemy fire, they will defend themselves when under attack. Of course they will primarily follow their waypoints because that's what they're supposed to do.

4. This is mostly a mission design concern, less a general AI problem.

5. I haven't experienced any problems on the former. If the AI gunner on a chopper sees enemies on the ground, he will fire on them. As for repairs, again that is a mission design concern. The AI can't be made too autonomous or they will never reliably do what the mission maker wants them to.

6. 100% agreed. In one preview video for Arma2 an AI was shown to instantly run away from incoming gunfire, so they seem to react better to danger. Hopefully the same goes for exploding vehicles.

1. Yes AI should to pick up ammo from dead comrades, from ammo boxes and if any weapon boxes around the general location lets say 1000 meters the AI should pick up a weapon required to defend themselfs from a tank or chopper. That's what a human players would do

2. It was stated for a fact in OFPDR not 100 sure for ARMA2. I hope

3. Yes they will drop and shoot back at you but they need to move off the waypoint line and react to the environment. The AI should switch to a guard waypoint so they can move free to fight you and when you are dead or fallback and the AI feel it's safe then they should return and continue the original waypoint that was setup.

4. No it's a AI behavior deficit/communication issues. Damaged vehicles should fall back to support vehicles not the support vehicles running into a hot combat zone. Yes things can be steup by mission design but if you put a support waypoint down the support vehicles just moves and follows the waypoint into any situation/location even if it's not safe for them.

5. I have not played ARMA1 in a while with all the new updates however I still play OFP ELITE. Choppers with rocket pods will not shoot at ground soldiers and will only use the guns very rare even if the waypoint is set to Guard with combat behavior and open fire on. The overall behavior should be like a tank. If a tank sees you well you know, your dead.

6. In one of the videos from ARMA2 a tanK/BMP crew jumped out and just was moving around the general area of the tank before it pop and the crew was killed just like in the original game. Human players would run like hell if the tank alarm was going off. PS. you have 3-4 seconds to get away or your dead.

Hope this clarify my points above.

Edited May 13, 2009 by AVIBIRD 1

[Sniperwolf572 758]

We already have an AI thread in the suggestion forums, merging.

[Jinn 10]

Excuse me if repeat... Simply unable to read 45 pages...

*****

Wanted that bots knew how to run away with battlefield in the event of evident defeat

example, I already described:

Goes M163 of the enemy. Crew: driver and rifleman.

We kill the rifleman... It remains the only driver.

M163 is completely no longer efficient without rifleman...

Nevertheless, the driver instead of that would go away, continues the movement \"attack" - stupid travel from side to side...

*****

Tanks nor tried to attack closely... Well, or at least then tried to press the enemy...

*****

That rifleman for heavy machine guns if enemy will call at behind, and rifleman this sees - he tried to come out of heavy machine gun and act their own power...

*****

Really advisable, that pilots flew on such height - which we want...

*****

Dream - to for bot was not "difficult terrain" on which they behave foolishly or completely stop :\

Good luck BIS, and money - for well-earned labour! ))

Edited May 13, 2009 by Jinn

[BadBenson 0]

something that doesn't work since ofp is how an inf-squad (without at-weapons) reacts on a tank along its way to the target position. it's the first thing i tested with arma2: place 1 tank in a village facing away from an enemy AI squad. now give the squad a waypoint far away and let them cross the sight of the tank. the arma2 infantrie doesn't shoot the tank with small arms anymore but they fail to take an alternate route around the tank's sight. they just try to sneak directly infront of the tank's barrel. the tank see's them....some hundred bullets later they're all dead.

would be so nice if the AI in general would be more clever in terms of evaluating the enemy's strength.