Graphics engine improvement

[horror1 10]

The Outerra engine has been linked over and over and over and over again. And still it looks like *beep* up close because all trees are just 2D sprites and so on. So yeah, it can render terrain nicely. But we got to populate it with decent-looking objects too, and this far there's no video of the engine managing to do that, so it's probably best suited for flight sims.

did you watch the video till the end?

[SPC.Spets 21]

Im not sure, but they added some new destructible tanks animation? or it was always there? Like, when you shot a rocket at some tank and the turret blows appart from the tank body

[BlackLord 0]

Im not sure, but they added some new destructible tanks animation? or it was always there? Like, when you shot a rocket at some tank and the turret blows appart from the tank body

Indeed, I've seen this after OA and it's really nice.

---------- Post added at 10:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:32 PM ----------

did you watch the video till the end?

I think he did and he's right.

[kuIoodporny 45]

Im not sure, but they added some new destructible tanks animation? or it was always there? Like, when you shot a rocket at some tank and the turret blows appart from the tank body

Like this?

[SPC.Spets 21]

Yes, I was doing a training video with rocket lauchers and then one of the turrets tanks just blows in pieces, and I was like o.O woot? I first though it was because I was using WarFXParticles mod. Anyway, they added that, but they remove the recoil animation ¬¬

[callihn 10]

Well I guess someone has to say it and since I've never done well with popularity contests I'll bring it up.

DirectX sucks, it always has and it always will, since Epic started using it in the original Unreal I knew there was a serious threat to gaming, DirectX.

DirectX is the destruction of gaming as it once was, system requirements become higher and higher fewer and fewer can play, then there is the version cut off and someday in the near future even more will be cutoff if they do not upgrade their operating systems as Microsoft wishes just as those using non Microsoft systems have already experienced because OpenGL is cross-platform compatible and it's one of the reasons you don't see so many of those great Linux gaming servers any more, the majority of those that knew what they were doing got tired of running great servers for games they couldn't play any more and people have been complaing about laggy servers and poor performance every since. Much like what happened when Hotmail switched from FreeBSD to Windows, it's been slow every since.

I think BIS would benefit greatly from the kind of loyal players that can be found in cross-platform gaming and I'm sure we could all use the performance of OpenGL.

The worst part about it is that as we have fewer and fewer players the remaining miss out because they have less competition to play online with and any time the competition is reduced the quality is reduced as well.

Please read:

http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/01/Why-you-should-use-OpenGL-and-not-DirectX

[dm 9]

DirectX is the destruction of gaming as it once was

Yes, I surely miss the days of conflicting irq ports, incompatible drivers and generally having to sacrifice 20 virgins to the gods before my game would even start, let alone actually play.

Evil corporate software it might be, but dx has made gaming easy and accessible to millions over the last decade or so.

system requirements become higher and higher fewer and fewer can play

Yeah, because its dx that really pushes the system requirements, and not the demands of gamers and game creators for ever more realistic graphics.

And fewer can play? I'm not sure what fantasy world you're living in, but more and more gamers start playing every day, and its not because dx is making it hard....

Drama queen much? :rolleyes:

[Pyronick 21]

Yes, I surely miss the days of conflicting irq ports, incompatible drivers and generally having to sacrifice 20 virgins to the gods before my game would even start, let alone actually play.

Interrupt requests have nothing to do with DirectX as an API.

With PCI there is no more need for manual IRQ mapping. I believe that there aren't even PICs in modern PC's anymore.

Evil corporate software it might be, but dx has made gaming easy and accessible to millions over the last decade or so.

The only reason why DirectX is so popular with game developers is because Microsoft has made proper documentation and development tools.

Khronos or the graphics hardware manufacturers never seemed to bother with making an IDE or writing proper documentation.

All while the same or even better could be done in OpenGL. It is even more accessible for the gamer as you only need OpenGL drivers and not the DirectX libaries.

Yeah, because its dx that really pushes the system requirements, and not the demands of gamers and game creators for ever more realistic graphics.

Actually, newer iterations of DirectX tend to improve performance.

Only to be overseen or not used by (lazy) developers. See texture compression or non-DirectX-based homemade crappy multiple target renderers for instance.

And fewer can play? I'm not sure what fantasy world you're living in, but more and more gamers start playing every day, and its not because dx is making it hard....

DirectX hasn't made gaming more difficult, but certainly not easier either.

[callihn 10]

Yes, I surely miss the days of conflicting irq ports, incompatible drivers and generally having to sacrifice 20 virgins to the gods before my game would even start, let alone actually play.

That sounds like early DirectX, I've never had a problem with OpenGL like that on any OS that any of the FPS games I've played had been ported to.

Evil corporate software it might be...

Yes, it is!

...dx has made gaming easy and accessible to millions over the last decade or so.

No, it hasn't, it's made it easier on Microsoft.

Yeah, because its dx that really pushes the system requirements, and not the demands of gamers and game creators for ever more realistic graphics.

True!

And fewer can play? I'm not sure what fantasy world you're living in, but more and more gamers start playing every day, and its not because dx is making it hard...

Where did you get hard out of that, I'm guessing you don't win many "Smarter than a Fifth Grader" games. :rolleyes:

Fewer can play because you'll never see DirectX running on a Mac or Linux natively, hence fewer people can play that those games running on OpenGL which is cross-platform. Fewer can play because many people have other responsibilities in life beyond having to keep their computer in equiped with the latest and greatest and often top of the line hardware for mere DVD quality frame rates and expensive OS upgrades that offer nothing more than more bells and whistles than the last.

Again read the link and get educated.

Edited September 22, 2010 by callihn

[dm 9]

I'm gussing you don't win many "Smarter than a Fifth Grader" games

Again read the link and get educated.

Oh, you're one of those people... Good to start with the personal insults early eh... :j:

Claiming one way or the other is total bullshit, as there are no 100% reliable figures of numbers of gamers "back then" and numbers of gamers today.

[twirly 11]

Re-work the graphics engine from the ground up! It needs it big time!

[callihn 10]

Oh, you're one of those people... Good to start with the personal insults early eh... :j:

Yes apparently you are one of those people!:

Drama queen much? :rolleyes:

:aa:

Claiming one way or the other is total bullshit, as there are no 100% reliable figures of numbers of gamers "back then" and numbers of gamers today.

The number of gamers available to play any given game also depend upoun the operating systems in which it can be played, you can not reach as far with DirectX since it only runs on one operating system.

[nodunit 397]

Re-work the graphics engine from the ground up! It needs it big time!

No it doesn't and that is years worth of work.. to be honest I like Arma2's and especially OA's visua styles, they convoy to me something more realistic than Call of Duty, Battlefield Bad companies and the new Medal of Honor game.

It could be the setting adjustment and somewhat dullen color but it looks more real to me, life is rich yes but shadows are not black and colors are not as vibrant as when seen on a digital camera, to me the vibrance and all the fancy shaders makes it look painfully obvious its GGI and for games claiming realism that really ruins it.

It's true that arma2 has some problems of its own in post processing and shading, this is mainly due to specular map so its not so much the engine as much as the design artist..however it would be nice to have a material command some sort that says "This casts PP glow" so you can have white cows or yellow caution signs without the glow. The effect is great, it's just all over the place which is a big big problem, going around the real world you rarely see this effect, I guess for roofs and such it's to simulate the blinding you get when you stare at a white metal roof on a sunny day.

At this point the sky for daytime is perfect, a beautiful blue, somewhat varied, the colors slowly changes, sunset could use a bit more orange though. My biggest annoyance is the way lights cast their glow, they look very de-saturated, and without dynamic lighting/lights that cast shadows we lose many many interior scenarios and other atmospheric missions.

Edited September 22, 2010 by NodUnit

[Hellhound 10]

No it doesn't and that is years worth of work.. to be honest I like Arma2's and especially OA's visua styles, they convoy to me something more realistic than Call of Duty, Battlefield Bad companies and the new Medal of Honor game.

It could be the setting adjustment and somewhat dullen color but it looks more real to me, life is rich yes but shadows are not black and colors are not as vibrant as when seen on a digital camera, to me the vibrance and all the fancy shaders makes it look painfully obvious its GGI and for games claiming realism that really ruins it.

It's true that arma2 has some problems of its own in post processing and shading, this is mainly due to specular map so its not so much the engine as much as the design artist..however it would be nice to have a material command some sort that says "This casts PP glow" so you can have white cows or yellow caution signs without the glow. The effect is great, it's just all over the place which is a big big problem, going around the real world you rarely see this effect, I guess for roofs and such it's to simulate the blinding you get when you stare at a white metal roof on a sunny day.

At this point the sky for daytime is perfect, a beautiful blue, somewhat varied, the colors slowly changes, sunset could use a bit more orange though. My biggest annoyance is the way lights cast their glow, they look very de-saturated, and without dynamic lighting/lights that cast shadows we lose many many interior scenarios and other atmospheric missions.

He probably means the performance of the graphics engine, and i gotta say i agree on that. Looks are pretty good as is.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

sunset could use a bit more orange though.

You can achieve some of this using post processed colors, but it's not going to look too convincing (think about certain TV series excessive use of warning filters for afternoon shots - it's utterly disturbing). Making them gradual (not supported in OA though) filters just makes them more noticeable.

But the island configs doesn't support more reddish sunsets currently. It only takes into account the suns elevation, which happens to be the same on sunsets and sunrises :) Although I would enjoy reddish sunsets, the colder blueish sunrises are more important (to me). If I have to choose.

[callihn 10]

Well they are going to spend years working on the next version anyway, might as well get it right this time. ;)

[carlostex 38]

Re-work the graphics engine from the ground up! It needs it big time!

If you´re talking about better visuals, we don´t need that the engine delivers awesome visuals. They just need to fix z-fighting and textures that become darker or clearer when you zoom in/zoom out.

If you´re talking about performance just think of the 1st ARMA. It was unplayable. But after 2 years of patching the game is rock solid and performs great on good hardware. Give 1 more year for Arma 2 and 1 year from now hardware and Arma 2 will run a lot better.

What this engine needs is improved physics. I´m not saying state of the art physics but improved, so we could have better ballistics and avoiding tanks jumping on rocks, better CQB experience etc... The benefits are overwhelming, without adding an overwhelming effect on MP game sync.

---------- Post added at 01:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:39 PM ----------

Well I guess someone has to say it and since I've never done well with popularity contests I'll bring it up.

DirectX sucks, it always has and it always will, since Epic started using it in the original Unreal I knew there was a serious threat to gaming, DirectX.

DirectX is the destruction of gaming as it once was, system requirements become higher and higher fewer and fewer can play, then there is the version cut off and someday in the near future even more will be cutoff if they do not upgrade their operating systems as Microsoft wishes just as those using non Microsoft systems have already experienced because OpenGL is cross-platform compatible and it's one of the reasons you don't see so many of those great Linux gaming servers any more, the majority of those that knew what they were doing got tired of running great servers for games they couldn't play any more and people have been complaing about laggy servers and poor performance every since. Much like what happened when Hotmail switched from FreeBSD to Windows, it's been slow every since.

I think BIS would benefit greatly from the kind of loyal players that can be found in cross-platform gaming and I'm sure we could all use the performance of OpenGL.

The worst part about it is that as we have fewer and fewer players the remaining miss out because they have less competition to play online with and any time the competition is reduced the quality is reduced as well.

Please read:

http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/01/Why-you-should-use-OpenGL-and-not-DirectX

It´s really your opinion but saying it sucks is a bit harsh. I´m one of those people that loves OpenGL it has been always a great API. I actually would like to see Arma 2 being rendered by OpenGL and physics calculations or AI code being run via OpenCL. GPU´s have soooo much power. CPU´s aren´t very good in processing simple operations in parallel. GPU acceleration is the way of the future. It all depends if developers want to use it, it might be to time consuming or too expensive so i really can´t say.

But you´re a bit off when you say DirectX sucks and it is the destruction of gaming. I think it actually allowed to the increase of game production and standardization of gaming in terms of making a game playable as soon as you install it on your computer.

Cheers

[fraghetti 10]

the only thing i dislike in arma graphicwise is the animations as i have mentioned before, and the lack of vibrant/more contrastful colors. anything else is fine for me.

edit: changing LOD is also not too cool to look at ^^

Edited October 9, 2010 by fraghetti

[KeyCat 131]

If you´re talking about better visuals, we don´t need that the engine delivers awesome visuals. They just need to fix z-fighting and textures that become darker or clearer when you zoom in/zoom out.

Agree!

If you haven't already, try the latest Beta build 73968 and place a tank/APC in the editor then jump in as gunner and enjoy a [close to] flicker free view of the armaverse via the optics at max zoom. With the Z-fighting/flickering gone it's visually awesome and show this engine in all it's glory!

Unfortunately the Z-fight fixes/improvements currently in build 73968 doesn't work across the board yet (see beta thread) but I'm sure BIS code warriors are working hard on it as we "speak", lets hope they manage to find a working solution.

Maybe topping that off with some LOD distance tweaks to make things even better ;)

... lack of vibrant/more contrastful colors.

Fraghetti, what GPU do you use? If you have a nVidia card try to bump up the Digital Vibrance slider a notch in the nVidia control panel. I have mine at ~55-60% and colorwise Chernarus looks beautiful at fall.

/KC

Edited October 12, 2010 by KeyCat

[Hellhound 10]

It would be great if a future Arma would have the ability to choose between DirectX and OpenGL, i have yet to see a game that had both options have better performance with DirectX . Also from a cross-platform standpoint it would be a wise choice for BIS.

[Pyronick 21]

It would be great if a future Arma would have the ability to choose between DirectX and OpenGL, i have yet to see a game that had both options have better performance with DirectX . Also from a cross-platform standpoint it would be a wise choice for BIS.

That and release it for Mac and Linux! :D

I think that is a bit too far fetched at the moment.

[WackyIraqi 0]

I definitely think that any engine improvements/additions from here on out should be optimizations and things to make it run more smoothly. In my opinion the visual graphics quality is top notch, no need to add more support for the latest and greatest shaders/effects etc. that do nothing but put more strain on the hardware. Fix/optimize what you have to make the experience the best it can be. Visuals only go so far if it's only playable to a few people. I've strayed away from the series a few times due to the intolerable FPS rates in all the games. Yes, it is fixed over time (as someone stated earlier, 2 years is about the time it takes for the game to get playable, then shortly later a new game is here and it's back to square one), but with each new game there is a slew of new features added and with that come more bugs which I believe outweigh the benefits.

Just my 2 cents I suppose.

[luap 10]

It would be great if a future Arma would have the ability to choose between DirectX and OpenGL, i have yet to see a game that had both options have better performance with DirectX . Also from a cross-platform standpoint it would be a wise choice for BIS.

LOL,

That would end the strangle hold that windows has on me. # 1-Christmas wish list before I die !

I wonder who will dare to take that moon shot that changes gaming for linux ?

Edited October 21, 2010 by luap
added

[johncage 30]

optimization is top priority. how an i7 920, 3gb ram, 9800gtx has trouble with this game on low settings is truly beyond me.

[mr burns 131]

Did a short search and haven´t found a more appropriate thread for this:

iEJDA7ACi1I

3:20 - render to texture possible in ArmA engine!

Scrap all DLC, we want r2t, now :butbut: