Prarie Fire discussion

[tremanarch 6]

Its a real awesome dlc. Watching Napalm Drops in the night and the Like with the Limited ability to See at night

[NightIntruder 710]

17 hours ago, tremanarch said:

Its a real awesome dlc. Watching Napalm Drops in the night and the Like with the Limited ability to See at night

I don't get why people are so pissed off with AIs! On a dark Vietnamese night, you cannot safely walk a few steps, but these AIs fly and drop napalm like Rambo! 😁

[Guard81 0]

Quick question: Is there a list anywhere for the Mike Force controls? Building and removing FOB stuff, packing and unpacking vehicles and so on? My Google-fu has failed me on this.

[zukov 490]

 

[stburr91 1002]

On 5/6/2021 at 4:48 PM, Private Evans said:

I really love it so far...but PLEASE make the rice paddies traversable for AI....this nearly kills playing with friendly AI completely ( rocks, waterways and bridges are bad enough by default)

 

In the editor they have invisible paths that can be placed down, that will allow the AI to go over the rice paddy mounds, and over the foot bridges. 

[EO 11275]

4 minutes ago, stburr91 said:

....and over the foot bridges. 

 

I've made a ticket for a at least one of those high walkways in the mountains, completely inaccessible for the player nevermind AI, hopefully they get round to fixing some of these issues with a future patch. 

[krzychuzokecia 717]

On 5/8/2021 at 9:29 AM, nkenny said:

On the issue of sameness, the terrain is quite big and has generous stretches of jungle, but some of the towns seem a little off. Perhaps it is the mixture of too familiar Arma assets or some other X factor.  There are definitely better jungle terrains created for Arma3. What I do appreciate is the generous use of furniture throughout the terrain.

Agreed on the overuse of older Arma assets. I already mentioned the ammo-boxes, but the map itself is even worse - the towns look like a hodge-podge of Tanoa, Altis, Cherno and Takistan, including even modern halogen lights and keypad locks on some buildings. Also, while more furniture is a nice change, IMO it's also overused. For example in Saigon there are two identical hospitals, only two streets away. Streets are full of un-usable prop cars - I get it, no one ever promised us civilian cars in PF, but they being there takes you out of the immersion. Which I saw an hour ago on official escape server, where 3 dudes tried to run away with one of those prop-cars. And all those small objects are quite taxing on the performance. With Eden Editor being a thing, it's easy for mission makers to fill all the empty spaces, with whatever props they find fitting to their mission. But if there are no empty spaces, you either have to work with what map maker designed, or use the "delete objects" module. It all reminds me of the old "design philosophy" of OFP maps - map maker had his personal vision, and often no one else found this vision interesting enough (or flexible enough) to make any missions in there. In the end, people kept playing "plain" and "boring" maps, while the "interesting" ones were left alone.

 

On 5/11/2021 at 12:40 PM, haleks said:

I'm surprised to see how few people talk about the Ambient Conversation system...

...possibly because it's rather immersion-breaking. Especially in case of US forces - I guess most of us don't speak Vietnamese. In SP Showcases all the AI are saying something constantly, and (in US Showcase) it's 99% of time something along the lines of "WHAT WAS THAT!?" or "TAKE COVER!". When playing MP, one of the characters in our team was callling air support every five minutes (complete with map grid), even though we haven't had any. Ambient voices have to react to battlefield situation (I think there are already few mods doing that), and even then, question is: aren't MACV-SOG guys supposed to be "balls of steel" dudes who wouldn't break silence? Seems to me that ambient voices are currently only useful as an additional way to detect VC in PvE - and it works great in this application! (of course, I don't know Vietnamese, so can't tell how accurate are their voice lines)

 

Now some other issues I've encountered while playing:
1. US Showcase - the dude sitting beside the "Deer Hunter Russian Roulette table" (in the bar you spawn nearby) is clipped into his chair.

2. US Showcase - player character starts with regular Arma 3 first aid kit, instead of SOG:PF one (may be an issue just with mission, may be an issue with this unit in general)

3. US Showcase (probably general issue however) - AIs standing near by the vehicles are raising ungodly amounts of dust.

4. Various pistols have mis-aligned sights: High-Power and S&W Model 10 are pointing high (and in case of M10 you really have to aim low, so it's a gameplay-affecting thing), M1911 points low.

5. Temporary Duty - when you land at Plei Ku, all the AIs in base are walking in "combat" mode (gun aiming).

6. Temporary Duty - when going on patrol, almost my whole squad, except sniper, was mortared to death even before they got out from base. Last save was before shooting range BTW.

7. Temporary Duty - going to first (northern-most) mortar, there was some crazy "Marksman" unit firing at VC with his full-auto M14 - not sure what was his role, he wasn't part of my squad.

8. Escape (the "official server" version, playing as US) - all the enemy bases were empty (including Son Tay base!), only resistance was in jungle or final naval base. I'd expect the bases to be full of loot/vehicles and enemy troops, but not in this case. Also jungle patrols had annoying habit of spawning right on top of us (and yes, few of the teammates seen AI spawning from thin air).

 

That's all for today, more is coming.

[Private Evans 498]

2 hours ago, stburr91 said:

 

In the editor they have invisible paths that can be placed down, that will allow the AI to go over the rice paddy mounds, and over the foot bridges. 

 

Very good find !!! I can confirm that this is working...using the 1 m pieces looks really good. The question is...is it possible to implement these pathways into the rice paddys dike walls objects so that we do not have to place thousands of invisible pathways all over the map xD

 

Also this seems to be the problem with the rope bridges and the wooden piers...the placement of the invisible paths simply is not fitting nicely ...

[cenkcnk 0]

I am really enjoying the dlc. but my only problem is fps. ın some points fps goes down to 20-25 and that annoys

[krzychuzokecia 717]

On 5/13/2021 at 11:55 PM, Private Evans said:

is it possible to implement these pathways into the rice paddys dike walls objects so that we do not have to place thousands of invisible pathways all over the map

Would be great - afterall, with many "dynamic" missions (like HWS or DRO) you can't completely rely on manual placing.

 

Some more "playable content" (i.e. missions) feedback (it's all a bit unorganized - when I'll have more time, I'll post it on the tracker in more sensible form, but if anyone else have similiar experiences to me, don't wait for me, report!)

 

Ash and Trash (played solo): apparently it's an endless mission (or takes more time than 1,5 hour to finish? is there any limit of sorties?), which isn't maybe big problem, but it gets boring fast. All my flights were to three LZs in the southern parts of island, mostly around Saigon. With SOG being main theme, I kind of expected some "unannounced visits" into Laos and Cambodia. Also, some more activity on the ground (hot LZs like in old OFP mission "Chinook"? would require AI door gunners) and in the air (I went to Pleiku Airbase and it was empty - would be fun to see some Phantoms on the tarmac, and maybe even flying around).

 

The Village: pretty straightforward, except (as opposed to Temporary Duty) after using radio player is not told to grab equipment. I was thinking that maybe I'll get some back in the village, but when helis started flying, I went back to the ammo box. Continuing, I've found out that US patrol is doing great job of not walking into the mines - during my first playthrough, none of mines exploded, during second, only one went off (the 4 meter tripwire), killing two GIs. Immediately, the others started shooting at my direction - behaviour known from way back in OFP, that I thought was fixed in Arma 3. Apparently not - can't really blame SOG:PF team for that, but it really changed my ambush into hunt (in which I was the prey). Ending was cool, however I'd change the Maxim (on the first line of camp defence) into some other MG - without human "spotter", you can't see what's in front of you (due to the shield on the Maxim).

 

Also I played some of the campaign missions on public servers (not all yet). Well I'll be damned! Very good level design, it's shame that playing solo we're not getting AI companions, else it would be also fantastic SP experience (to be honest, I don't see any reason why AI wouldn't work here?). Now thing that needs more explanation are hand signals - some other players used them, but I still don't know how. I suppose those are explained in Mike Force (?), but yeah - there should be some "tutorial" on features like that, either in first campaign mission, or maybe any of the SP missions/showcases. Otherwise, the campaign is a blast. Napalm blast!

[stburr91 1002]

18 hours ago, krzychuzokecia said:

Would be great - afterall, with many "dynamic" missions (like HWS or DRO) you can't completely rely on manual placing.

 

Some more "playable content" (i.e. missions) feedback (it's all a bit unorganized - when I'll have more time, I'll post it on the tracker in more sensible form, but if anyone else have similiar experiences to me, don't wait for me, report!)

 

Ash and Trash (played solo): apparently it's an endless mission (or takes more time than 1,5 hour to finish? is there any limit of sorties?), which isn't maybe big problem, but it gets boring fast. All my flights were to three LZs in the southern parts of island, mostly around Saigon. With SOG being main theme, I kind of expected some "unannounced visits" into Laos and Cambodia. Also, some more activity on the ground (hot LZs like in old OFP mission "Chinook"? would require AI door gunners) and in the air (I went to Pleiku Airbase and it was empty - would be fun to see some Phantoms on the tarmac, and maybe even flying around).

 

The Village: pretty straightforward, except (as opposed to Temporary Duty) after using radio player is not told to grab equipment. I was thinking that maybe I'll get some back in the village, but when helis started flying, I went back to the ammo box. Continuing, I've found out that US patrol is doing great job of not walking into the mines - during my first playthrough, none of mines exploded, during second, only one went off (the 4 meter tripwire), killing two GIs. Immediately, the others started shooting at my direction - behaviour known from way back in OFP, that I thought was fixed in Arma 3. Apparently not - can't really blame SOG:PF team for that, but it really changed my ambush into hunt (in which I was the prey). Ending was cool, however I'd change the Maxim (on the first line of camp defence) into some other MG - without human "spotter", you can't see what's in front of you (due to the shield on the Maxim).

 

Also I played some of the campaign missions on public servers (not all yet). Well I'll be damned! Very good level design, it's shame that playing solo we're not getting AI companions, else it would be also fantastic SP experience (to be honest, I don't see any reason why AI wouldn't work here?). Now thing that needs more explanation are hand signals - some other players used them, but I still don't know how. I suppose those are explained in Mike Force (?), but yeah - there should be some "tutorial" on features like that, either in first campaign mission, or maybe any of the SP missions/showcases. Otherwise, the campaign is a blast. Napalm blast!

 

First, IRL, "Ash and Trash" missions were simply doing logistic runs, so that's why there are no covert missions into Laos and Cambodia. I agree with you that it would be nice to have more diverse helicopter missions instead of just ash, and trash.

 

As far as I know, the hand signals are solely for coop missions, they have no function other than to communicate with other human players in your group. You can access the hand signals using the "Tab" key by default. 

[krzychuzokecia 717]

Yup, I know about RL "Ash and Trash", but... there's really not much of that in the mission either. It might be good idea do (at least) add some "transport supplies" tasks, not just the infantry, either with sling-loading mechanics, or maybe some nicer tricks (attaching crates to the inside of heli, and have some GI take them at the destination - IIRC there is some "carrying stuff" anim in the game already).

 

I'd say, the biggest issue in Ash and Trash is limited number of locations. Heli flying missions, even completely non-combat (it's worth pointing that even in RVN aircrews had to deal with small arms fire and AAA), can be fun if there's purpose, for example, learning the ways of the land, or seeing interesting places. I'm not sure how exactly the mission is scripted, but at the moment it's just too repetetive.

 

Thanks for the tip on signals!

[TeTeT 1523]

If you're bored with Ash&Trash, I recommend to check out KP Support Cam Lao Nam: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2478749192 It's quite dynamic and picking up squads in the middle of nowhere is a bit of a challenge - at least to me.

[cenkcnk 0]

when i play SP, fps ok but during mp, fps gets killed insanely.

[Twiznak 57]

Hello everyone! I feel that I must join this conversation as I need to raise and issue that should not be overlooked. I LOVE this DLC. However, all six tunnel systems are the same arrangement with only minor variations in the furniture. WHY? Every tunnel should have it's own unique arrangement to maximize the tunnels replay value. Anyone else agree? 

[stburr91 1002]

Does anyone know how to setup the, Restrict Ambient Voice module?

 

I put this in the module, and it's causing a error.

 

["vn_b_men_sog_14", "vn_b_men_sog_06", "vn_b_men_sog_10", "vn_b_men_sog_22"]

[haleks 8212]

Same thing here. :/

My zombies do a weird little scream when they die...

[stburr91 1002]

1 hour ago, haleks said:

Same thing here. 😕

My zombies do a weird little scream when they die...

 

Are you saying that you can't get the Restrict Ambient Voice module to work for you either? 

[haleks 8212]

6 minutes ago, stburr91 said:

 

Are you saying that you can't get the Restrict Ambient Voice module to work for you either? 

 

Yes (I assume the "death scream" I mention is part of the Ambient Voice system).

I don't have Arma3 on this computer, but iirc the error was something like "... did not return an array".

Tried pretty much everything : with & without quotes or brackets.

[stburr91 1002]

10 minutes ago, haleks said:

 

Yes (I assume the "death scream" I mention is part of the Ambient Voice system).

I don't have Arma3 on this computer, but iirc the error was something like "... did not return an array".

Tried pretty much everything : with & without quotes or brackets.

 

 

I'm having the same error, the module must be broken, or work completely differently from other modules. 

[Guard81 0]

Much as I'm enjoying the Mike Force mode, there's a raft of issues coming up. I dare say server admins and communities will be passing those along shortly, if they haven't already.

These range from zones inter-connecting unexpectedly, to vehicles spawning under ground and people falling through rocks.

[truffleshuffle03 0]

I will start off with Love the Idea but the execution is very lacking at least for the short campaign. I had decided I wanted to focus on doing the campaign a bit before jumping into multiplayer. Since my friends have not yet bought the DLC I have been doing Solo. It would not be so bad if there were not so many fing bugs. Sometimes main objectives can't be done either because you can't place something like the spiked ammo or Items you need to progress missions don't spawn in like the radio and flight log for the mission bright light. Then the best of all AI spawns under the map killing you or killing your main objective like when you reach the pilot for Bright Light.  3 times I get downed and the pilot killed because an enemy is under the map shooting through the floor. Not to mention if you find traps in the tunnels you have no option but to let it hit you where It will either down you, Instantly kills you, Or downs you and drop you through the map which happens a lot. There is no option that allows you to disarm traps and explosives do not set them off either. I have even planted C4 on traps in tunnels and set it off and the trap survives. It has gotten to the point of frustration. You would think if they released a DLC where you have to travel a tunnel to locate a POW and the Tunnel has random traps you would have an option to disarm them or at least explosives take them out.  Tool kit also does not work on them. I am guessing because all VC traps are pungi traps and not explosive traps?

[Asaayu 43]

21 hours ago, stburr91 said:

 

 

I'm having the same error, the module must be broken, or work completely differently from other modules. 

The module is indeed broken, I've fixed the issue in the internal build so it will be fixed in the next bug fixing update.

The correct format is the one you  are using,

["classname_01","classname_02"]

 

[bigshot 64]

On 5/13/2021 at 3:36 PM, stburr91 said:

In the editor they have invisible paths that can be placed down, that will allow the AI to go over the rice paddy mounds, and over the foot bridges. 

 

But what are all the externally scripted mission makers supposed to do? These pathways need to be added all over the map by the map makers so that clear AI pathways are not something that is "editor only" access...most large missions are externally scripted.

 

I cannot get Duws working with this terrain because of all the AI related bottlenecks. Duws depends upon both friendly and enemy AI being able to traverse the entire map by themselves with dynamically generated waypoints...this is for dynamic patrols on both sides. When playing Duws the enemy actually hunts you down from kilometers away and keeps moving all over the map, unlike what we're seeing now in every mission that is AI based which is where enemy are simply dumped in 1 spot and pretty much just wait there to be annihilated. Missions like this are just target practice, IMO and get old fast. We need to be able to use DYNAMIC moving AI. 

 

It's very nice to have a plausibly realistic terrain, I understand this idea. But when it gets in the way of itself by drastically limiting the gameplay itself, then it actually becomes a hinderance. The AI (both foot soldiers and vehicle'd) needs to be able to quickly get around all sections of this map, otherwise the map either gets relegated to PvP, or you will only have static targets for PvE missions.

 

My friends and I have yet to find 1 single mission we like playing where you are working at taking over areas and running into dynamic enemy patrols (that don't just spawn nearby wherever you, for effect). This is because this map does not support such missions. The question for me then is....will it ever? Are the authors aware of the issue and plan an update that will correct this?

 

I'm really asking because I have no idea.

[stburr91 1002]

17 minutes ago, bigshot said:

 

But what are all the externally scripted mission makers supposed to do? These pathways need to be added all over the map by the map makers so that clear AI pathways are not something that is "editor only" access...most large missions are externally scripted.

 

I cannot get Duws working with this terrain because of all the AI related bottlenecks. Duws depends upon both friendly and enemy AI being able to traverse the entire map by themselves with dynamically generated waypoints...this is for dynamic patrols on both sides. When playing Duws the enemy actually hunts you down from kilometers away and keeps moving all over the map, unlike what we're seeing now in every mission that is AI based which is where enemy are simply dumped in 1 spot and pretty much just wait there to be annihilated. Missions like this are just target practice, IMO and get old fast. We need to be able to use DYNAMIC moving AI. 

 

It's very nice to have a plausibly realistic terrain, I understand this idea. But when it gets in the way of itself by drastically limiting the gameplay itself, then it actually becomes a hinderance. The AI (both foot soldiers and vehicle'd) needs to be able to quickly get around all sections of this map, otherwise the map either gets relegated to PvP, or you will only have static targets for PvE missions.

 

My friends and I have yet to find 1 single mission we like playing where you are working at taking over areas and running into dynamic enemy patrols (that don't just spawn nearby wherever you, for effect). This is because this map does not support such missions. The question for me then is....will it ever? Are the authors aware of the issue and plan an update that will correct this?

 

I'm really asking because I have no idea.

 

Every map is a compromise. I, and I bet every dev that worked on the terrain would have loved to see Cam Lao Nam 4-5 times bigger, but that's not really possible, so, it's a compromise. 

 

Any highly detailed terrain in Arma is not going to be well suited for what you want to do, and especially not a detailed terrain of Vietnam. What you want is a small niche of how people will use this terrain, the devs instead focused on creating a terrain that would be suitable for how most people play Arma, multiplayer/coop. 

 

I get it that you're frustrated that there's a really cool CDLC, and you would like to use it, but it just doesn't do what you want it to do. Truthfully, as soon as I saw your post, and read what you wanted the terrain to be capable of, I knew you were going to be disappointed, because frankly, you never really had realistic expectations.  

 

I know nothing I just wrote will lessen your frustration, but if I were you, I would adjust your expectation, and do your best to adapt what you want to do with the terrain, and just make the most out of it.