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Contact Expansion Livonia Feedback

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Having being busy only picked up Contact now. By far my my favourite map in the series. such a shame it was not a full sized one but none the less, great job. Felt like I was in Ireland at times.  

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How is 164 km^2 land area not "full sized"? Tanoa is 100km^2 of land, stratis was only 20. 

Its basically takistan

Livonia's terrain is only a bit smaller than chernarus, and smaller than Altis. Since when was anything smaller than Altis not "full sized"? Personally, I consider 100km^2 to be the lower limit...

Granted, separating that landmass into islands and such makes it seem bigger. Using some water to increase total playable area makes maps seem bigger, but water based gameplay is still minor in A3, despite the swimming and SDV improvements

Maps_RV_Apex_full.png

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5 hours ago, Ex3B said:

How is 164 km^2 land area not "full sized"? Tanoa is 100km^2 of land, stratis was only 20. 

Its basically takistan

Livonia's terrain is only a bit smaller than chernarus, and smaller than Altis. Since when was anything smaller than Altis not "full sized"? Personally, I consider 100km^2 to be the lower limit...

Granted, separating that landmass into islands and such makes it seem bigger. Using some water to increase total playable area makes maps seem bigger, but water based gameplay is still minor in A3, despite the swimming and SDV improvements

 

 

While I agree that Livonia isn't small, Altis set a new standard/expectation. I fully expect the Arma 4 terrain will be at a bare minimum be as big as Altis, if not bigger. I'm also hopeful that like Altis, most, if not nearly all buildings will be fully enterable, and not like the only partly enterable buildings that Tanoa, and Livonia have.

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6 hours ago, Ex3B said:

How is 164 km^2 land area not "full sized"?

 

With Jets DLC content and features, such as fast airplanes, reworked sensors and increased radar ranges etc. even maps like Chernarus or Livonia can become seemingly small very fast. Granted not every mission use jets, but sensors/weapon range upgrades are also applicable for ground vehicles.

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@krzychuzokecia I agree almost completely. A 12.8x12.8 km square is plenty for infantry combat, and starts to seem a little small for tank combat when one considers that tank FCS can handle distances of up to 5km (T-140 Angara), although that requires rather high view distance settings. From one end diagonally to the other of such a map, its 18 km, so I think its not so applicable to ground vehicles, particularly given the limited spots where you can get such a line of sight, and the limited speed of ground vehicles with such weapon ranges.

If one places two bases at opposite corners of the maps, they distance between them is significant. Its a bit different with artillery though. MRLs and howitzers pretty much anywhere on the map can engage pretty much anywhere else on the map.

With jets, it really makes the map small. There are rarely 2 airports even several km away from each other. The maps, including altis, are all really too small for two teams with fighter jets to operate.

The jets do 1 km every 3 seconds, so 10km takes just 30 seconds to cross. Take off at one end of the map in a black wasp, and you can pretty much identify and shoot down any non-stealth aircraft that gets above ground clutter anywhere on the map (at least for every map except Altis, but if you take off at the main airbase, its still true).

 

The Jets DLC also added a carrier... which can fix the problem a bit on island maps. Place carriers around 20km off shore, at opposite ends of altis, and you can get a good 60km of separation between bases on Altis. I can get carrier bases 50km apart on Tanoa -moving carriers too far off the map can cause problems- So the airpower can be put farther away and again make the battlespace more reasonable.

 

Livonia is landlocked though, so aircraft carriers don't really fit well with it (they can just sit there on land), and jets can just land right off the edge of the map, so a base placed farther away can be moved closer, unless made with scripts or objects that can't be moved. I find ships offshore to be a much more aesthetically pleasing solution to the small size of the maps for aerial warfare.

 

That's also why I made my mod "offshore assault", because NATO was well suited to operating from a ship (Black wasps + blackfish carrying marshals and Rhinos will curbstomp Xians and Taru's carrying LSVs and MRAPs), but CSAT isn't.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1744603050

 

 

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For jets (and also meaningful naval operations), you really need something like 100x100km (TOH-sized) maps. For ArmA4, I'd very much love to see something like that, but making a map like that detailed enough for infantry operations is nontrivial, to say the least. An option would be setting the game in a desert (something like the Persian Gulf, with lots of water on one side), which would allow concentrated high-detail areas with plenty of open space between them.

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