The Rise and Fall of Operation Flashpoint

[jeza 5416]

Interesting overview for those who did not know and those who did :)
(Forgot what bunch of wankers CM are geez).
 

 

[Janez 531]

Hah, was just about to post about it but you beat me to it. :) Yeah, its pretty good. I too forgot Lentons face, would prefer it to remain that way but I guess you can't have the cake and eat it.

[Tonci87 163]

Great little documentary. Happy that BIS won "the war"

 

I remember how we flamed Codemasters and Dragon rising here in the forum when that game was due to release. There was a thread dedicated to how shit that game was. Awesome times!

[Lenyoga 326]

Great documentary on the topic. Looks like I found a channel to fill my delirious nights with.

 

[krzychuzokecia 719]

Honestly, that vid is pretty meh. It just recaps main points of Gamasutra, RPS and Eurogamer articles, bringing nothing new on the table. In light of this, author calling his vid a documentary and asking for donations seems to me rather pathethic, but... It's 2019. Kids today don't know how to use Google, so I guess there's a purpose for such videos.

 

And, because it's still in our minds and hearts, I have to take a new stance on the Great Bohemia-Codemasters War of 2009. Back in the day, I was rooting for BIS and denouncing Codies treason and theft just like everyone. But back in the day I was really nothing but a teenager, and after a decade I have a quite different outlook on the affair. Flame away, but now I think that BIS was very lucky that they lost only Operation Flashpoint brand.

 

See - the company signed a contract with Codemasters, committed themselves to make OFP2 and Elite, and failed to deliver. And games are business, quite a big one, so missed deadlines equals to loss of money (either already invested, or projected income). In theory Codemasters could sue BIS into oblivion, and let's be honest - BIS is not really good in keeping up with their promises. We should remember that before 2005 (release of Elite and secession from Codies), BI was involved not only with OFP2 but also VBS and (even earlier) OFP spin-off - Independence Lost. Not to mention supporting the bug-ridden (like every BIS release) Operation Flashpoint. It seems that most of their projects of Codemasters era failed (including Elite). That makes BIS a rather untrustworthy business partner. Fans will say that BIS is not making games for money, but... do we really believe that after seeing games like Argo and Vigor? Not to mention that VBS was essentially a cash-grab - jumping into lucrative market with little-to-none new development (remember that new content for VBS was created by members of OFP modding scene).

 

With that in mind, BIS losing just the brand is quite a lucky outcome. Would they expect Codemasters to forget about losses and failed projects? And, correct me if I'm wrong, I remember that Operation Flashpoint was in fact a Codies-invented name (though based on the Flashpoint name used earlier in development). The 2009 press-release, where BIS angrily responds to Codies marketing their Dragon Rising as an official sequel to OFP is just mindblowing. I mean, if Codies own the brand, why can't their product be called official sequel? For adult me that press-release reads a little bit as a childish tantrum, and a little bit as a hidden advertisement for BIS own Arma series. Which, by the way, needed all the publicity after the unfortunate Armed Assault. BIS holier-than-thou attitude, deciding what is and what is not official or true sequel was nothing more than virtue signalling. Which is a shame, because quality of their product (Arma 2) spoke for itself, especially when compared to Dragon Rising. So while Dragon Rising may not have been a true Operation Flashpoint-style game, it's still an official sequel no matter how far it went from original genre (SWAT series comes to mind here).

 

So yeah - video games are a big business, and business is a thing for adults. The 2009 Great Bohemia-Codemasters War was none of that. It was an emotional outburst, and an example of mob mentality. Both of which have it's place in the world, but seem rather funny when it comes to my product is better than your product. In the mean time we also found out that BIS is not really better or worse developer than others. BIS acquisition of Altar in 2010 killed UFO franchise (and UFO fans to this day hate BIS just like we hate Codemasters), BIS games still have problems with their releases (either delayed or full of bugs - though with early access this had became an industry standard), and we see that BIS passion for their games have vanished to some extent, being replaced by pursuit of profit. Which is not bad - their families have to eat. But it's obvious that nowadays, instead of developing original ideas (like very unique Take on Mars which is now abandoned), they are jumping into existing lucrative markets (Argo, Vigor, Ylands - all are clones of popular franchises).

 

One could say that BIS have become the very monster it claimed it will never be. Or maybe they just grown up? Sooner or later, all of us do.

[Tonci87 163]

22 hours ago, krzychuzokecia said:

Honestly, that vid is pretty meh. It just recaps main points of Gamasutra, RPS and Eurogamer articles, bringing nothing new on the table. In light of this, author calling his vid a documentary and asking for donations seems to me rather pathethic, but... It's 2019. Kids today don't know how to use Google, so I guess there's a purpose for such videos.

 

And, because it's still in our minds and hearts, I have to take a new stance on the Great Bohemia-Codemasters War of 2009. Back in the day, I was rooting for BIS and denouncing Codies treason and theft just like everyone. But back in the day I was really nothing but a teenager, and after a decade I have a quite different outlook on the affair. Flame away, but now I think that BIS was very lucky that they lost only Operation Flashpoint brand.

 

See - the company signed a contract with Codemasters, committed themselves to make OFP2 and Elite, and failed to deliver. And games are business, quite a big one, so missed deadlines equals to loss of money (either already invested, or projected income). In theory Codemasters could sue BIS into oblivion, and let's be honest - BIS is not really good in keeping up with their promises. We should remember that before 2005 (release of Elite and secession from Codies), BI was involved not only with OFP2 but also VBS and (even earlier) OFP spin-off - Independence Lost. Not to mention supporting the bug-ridden (like every BIS release) Operation Flashpoint. It seems that most of their projects of Codemasters era failed (including Elite). That makes BIS a rather untrustworthy business partner. Fans will say that BIS is not making games for money, but... do we really believe that after seeing games like Argo and Vigor? Not to mention that VBS was essentially a cash-grab - jumping into lucrative market with little-to-none new development (remember that new content for VBS was created by members of OFP modding scene).

 

With that in mind, BIS losing just the brand is quite a lucky outcome. Would they expect Codemasters to forget about losses and failed projects? And, correct me if I'm wrong, I remember that Operation Flashpoint was in fact a Codies-invented name (though based on the Flashpoint name used earlier in development). The 2009 press-release, where BIS angrily responds to Codies marketing their Dragon Rising as an official sequel to OFP is just mindblowing. I mean, if Codies own the brand, why can't their product be called official sequel? For adult me that press-release reads a little bit as a childish tantrum, and a little bit as a hidden advertisement for BIS own Arma series. Which, by the way, needed all the publicity after the unfortunate Armed Assault. BIS holier-than-thou attitude, deciding what is and what is not official or true sequel was nothing more than virtue signalling. Which is a shame, because quality of their product (Arma 2) spoke for itself, especially when compared to Dragon Rising. So while Dragon Rising may not have been a true Operation Flashpoint-style game, it's still an official sequel no matter how far it went from original genre (SWAT series comes to mind here).

 

So yeah - video games are a big business, and business is a thing for adults. The 2009 Great Bohemia-Codemasters War was none of that. It was an emotional outburst, and an example of mob mentality. Both of which have it's place in the world, but seem rather funny when it comes to my product is better than your product. In the mean time we also found out that BIS is not really better or worse developer than others. BIS acquisition of Altar in 2010 killed UFO franchise (and UFO fans to this day hate BIS just like we hate Codemasters), BIS games still have problems with their releases (either delayed or full of bugs - though with early access this had became an industry standard), and we see that BIS passion for their games have vanished to some extent, being replaced by pursuit of profit. Which is not bad - their families have to eat. But it's obvious that nowadays, instead of developing original ideas (like very unique Take on Mars which is now abandoned), they are jumping into existing lucrative markets (Argo, Vigor, Ylands - all are clones of popular franchises).

 

One could say that BIS have become the very monster it claimed it will never be. Or maybe they just grown up? Sooner or later, all of us do.

 

 

You are a hundred percent correct.

 

I would also like to add one more thing, The rivalry between codemasters and BIS meant that BIS had to step up their game. Arrowhead was a very substantial expansion to Arma 2. It added so so much to the game. Honestly I do not believe that Arrowhead would have been as substantial if BIS didn´t feel the pressure that they absolutely have to deliver a superior product. I do not think that the modern BIS has the same kind of drive and energy that the old one had. A lot has changed

[Janez 531]

@krzychuzokecia sure but my and my community's (which consisted of another few dipsh*ts like me) PoV was slightly different. I was actually willing to give DR a chance and was looking forward to both games, DR and Arma 2. The main problem for me and plenty others was endless loop of deceit on behalf of CM, that ultimately lead to failure. From fake trailers - and remember, back then this wasn't common practice because there was still some decency left - to straight up lying. Hence why I mentioned my displeasure for Lenton.

In the end when release dates came, both games were huge disappointments. Arma 2 even more so, I mean German release anyone? But the major difference is that BI was going to support their games and CM was not. For example, BI made a German faction consisting of few infantry units to mend the release and generally fairly honest interaction. But as you pointed out, things seem to be changing and we need to call it out.

In 2011 when Skyrim was released, Todd Howard was all high and mighty at one of the prestigious award rituals, how video games were officially recognized as art. Well, we all see how much of that is left in these products.

[Tonci87 163]

Oh yeah, the german Arma 2 launch was a serious disaster, but yes, at least BIS didn´t lie about it and they did fix the game eventually.

[froggyluv 2136]

So much history here. Takes me back to the days when people here called me a BIS White Knight. Now im a known Hater. Always loyal to the awesome game and premise/promise of the awesome military sandbox that while much of it delivered in spades other parts neglected to the point of willful neglect and abandonment. Great seeing how much BI did try and create a fully dynamic destruction game in Game 2 but it just simply wasnt possible at that time. Pretty sure I remember a BI Dev stating -"We need 15 years to deliver that game we wanted to make". Well you've got that -we waiting!

😄

 

Anyone remember the AI playbook Codemasters tried but ultimately failed to deliver for Dragon Rising -man that sounded like the exact thing this type of game needs but alas.. One thing we saw for sure is that competition really improved the product BI delivered and now they've wandered into the mindless horde of Survival open world shooters so the future is not exactly promising for the mil-tac fan. Nevertheless, ill remain chaotic good, mindlessly loyal to BI.

 

*coughs Old Man Scenario!! *coughs

[krzychuzokecia 719]

On 2/7/2019 at 12:46 PM, Tonci87 said:

I would also like to add one more thing, The rivalry between codemasters and BIS meant that BIS had to step up their game. Arrowhead was a very substantial expansion to Arma 2. (...) I do not think that the modern BIS has the same kind of drive and energy that the old one had. A lot has changed

I agree that Arrowhead was indeed a huge release, a sort of mil-simmer wet dream. To be honest, I think that Arma 3 is also an answer for the same question - how to make the most realistic combat game ever. Even though it was met with... mixed emotions on this very Forums.

 

To this day there are people who whine about A3 futuristic features, even though, at the very basic simulation level, it presents a 1980s military technology at best. And most of the art represents 1990s equipment. I personally love most of the A3 realism-focused features, and couldn't care less about the looks (afterall we have addons for that). But it seems that community has also changed through the years - I remember backlash against stamina/fatigue-induced weapon sway, or the uncertainty about radar/sensor and data-link changes. Interestingly, both features were opposed by KoTH/Battle Royale players.

 

So, is Bohemia a different company today? Yes it is. But does devs lack energy? Well... I don't know. They sure have enough energy for starting new projects like Ylands and Vigor. Seems to me that the energy is still there, but with company getting bigger, they have to focus on more profitable markets. The trap of successful independent dev going big.

 

There's one area, however, where BI haven't changed, and... well... I think whole industry starts going this way. What I'm talking is the very problem that caused the BIS-CM rift - long development and bugged releases. It seems like what was outrageous in 2009, is now industry standard with all those early access, greenlights and beta-tests extending ad infinitum. Guess if Bohemia would be making Game 2 today, team CM would just push it into Steam Early Access and happily collect quids. At least BIS seems to actually fix and support their products (DayZ finally released after all these years), as opposed to some of devs who put out early access games one after another (Ark anyone?).

On 2/8/2019 at 11:37 AM, Janez said:

I was actually willing to give DR a chance and was looking forward to both games, DR and Arma 2. The main problem for me and plenty others was endless loop of deceit on behalf of CM, that ultimately lead to failure. From fake trailers - and remember, back then this wasn't common practice because there was still some decency left - to straight up lying.

That's interesting to hear - as I've said, back then I was strongly on Team 'Hemia and I probably would burn you alive for admitting even slightest interest in fake Flashpoint.

 

Funny enough, after playing DR demo last year, I don't think it was that bad. In fact it seems like something fresh and entertaining when compared to your run of the mill dumbed down console corridor shooters like CoD etc. It still suffers from problems, mostly due to being console friendly (FoV, controls cramped between 8 buttons, because why use full keyboard?). But it goes into a really interesting territory of slow-paced, team-based game. It's not so far out like Arma, gameplay-wise it's actually quite similiar to original OFP. Games like Squad show that there is interest on the market for similiar stuff.

On 2/8/2019 at 11:37 AM, Janez said:

In 2011 when Skyrim was released, Todd Howard was all high and mighty at one of the prestigious award rituals, how video games were officially recognized as art. Well, we all see how much of that is left in these products.

That's very true! Hell, the same can be told about anything really. Big bucks change everything, and while pursuing the profit is not bad or evil per se, it starts to be a problem when quality suffers.

[redarmy 422]

Arma series documented.Very interesting to watch how it got to this point.

 

 

quoted in the video "Arma3 started as a futuristic shooter where the player fought aliens"  lol now i know where CSAT got the helmets from.

 

 

[Rich_R 1087]

Glad you posted this, its a great video series for gamers and it was great for them show some Arma love (sort of)

[Janez 531]

Yeah, em...

 

The Rise and Fall of Operation Flashpoint - Short Documentary

[EDcase 87]

...And before 'OperationFlashpoint' there was...

 

Poseidon

 

(Not my video)

[chrisb 196]

Gravon.

 

 

I was in my mid 30's when this came out. 😮

[EDcase 87]

Poseidon was the tech demo by Marek and Ondrej Spanel which would become OperationFlashpoint and then ARMA...

[redarmy 422]

3 minutes ago, chrisb said:

Gravon.

 

 

I was in my mid 30's when this came out. 😮

That map looks eerily like Sahrani

[jeza 5416]

This was due few years after, but a spiritual successor to H&D2 and looking very OFP'esc and fighting in UK as well, gutted this never saw the light of day:

https://www.unseen64.net/2019/12/20/enemy-sight-pc-cancelled/

[Wavemaker 1]

Where has the footage of game2 gone to? I remember them showing building damage technology.

[Valken 622]

I'm glad you bumped this because I didn't see it before! Is it blasphemy to ask if there will be OFP2 remakes in ARMA 3 engine? 😄

[razzored 37]

I miss flashpoint.

[Gunter Severloh 4063]

3 hours ago, razzored said:

I miss flashpoint.

Then you'll want to follow this