Former modders interest to come back?

[lato190 55]

Since arma 3 major development come to its end with tanks dlc, are former modders interest to come back?

 

Some modders stopped because of major changes in patches/dlc and broke alot mods and modder has to change it everytime. In future we will see only stability/bug fix patches, so no major changes/new features after tank dlc.

 

Any former modder here still active and think about a come back ?

[Rich_R 1087]

I was hoping for this as well. You could feel the modder's pain when their hard work would be ruined by a change to the game's engine.

 

Fingers crossed!

[warlord554 2065]

It's not just that. It's the lack of respect this younger generation has for the modders that bring them free content

[Rich_R 1087]

2 minutes ago, warlord554 said:

It's not just that. It's the lack of respect this younger generation has for the modders that bring them free content

 

Yep, definitely saw that at play as well. One would hope the love felt from everyone else would help with the disrespect from the few. 

 

But the forums are a witness to the  lack of appreciation for modders hard work from some, so yeah, I get it.

[warlord554 2065]

With that said though MAYBE a new engine will bring out some old timers here whenever the next one comes out

[fn_Quiksilver 1636]

If BI were to fix some longstanding AI bugs (driving, etc) and deliver a couple much needed AI script commands and AI event handlers (combat mode, lifestate, behaviour, etc), i would stick around to work on an AI mod. 

 

but they abandoned the feature (AI) better part of a decade ago, and have left it in an embarrassing/insulting state of repair. Example being updating the Tanks driving model, but for players only, AI have no idea how to do simple turns with the new tech.

 

so no, definitely not :)

[lexx 1364]

3 hours ago, warlord554 said:

It's not just that. It's the lack of respect this younger generation has for the modders that bring them free content

 

What kind of respect do you mean? Speak to them with "good sirs" and bow down?

I'm doing this stuff for about 15 years now, and I don't think it was ever really different. Only thing that changed is that games have become far more complex machines that require more skills to produce something good.

 

Personally, I can see people coming back.. but probably only for this announced 3rd party DLC thing, if it should successfully kick off. Other than that, no idea.

[AveryTheKitty 2626]

Personally (as a member of the younger generation too I guess) I'd say the two biggest turn offs to modding is the effort required and the reception and community.

 

Say you wanted to add a tank. You have to model it, texture it, animate it, configure it, configure PhysX, add sounds, and test it. All of this is much easier said than done. Some is easier than other stuff, but we can all agree implementing PhysX is suicidally frustrating. And in the end it's just sometimes not worth it.

 

Reception and such depends on where you look; generally people on the BIS forums are very nice and understand the effort put into things; meanwhile on Steam, some people steal your stuff and reupload it, constantly ask for very specific things, are just generally rude, and all and all it's just very grating.

 

Hopefully the next installment makes things easier and more advanced at the same time. I cannot wait to see what BIS brings to the table.

[rübe 127]

13 hours ago, fn_Quiksilver said:

If BI were to fix some longstanding AI bugs (driving, etc) and deliver a couple much needed AI script commands and AI event handlers (combat mode, lifestate, behaviour, etc), i would stick around to work on an AI mod.

 

While clearly another rant of yours, , I see where you're coming from. Personally I just came back after a longer pause to continue working on my stuff, and then I remembered why I just sort of tuned out (besides just having other priorities): my "trigger" are those fucking bounding boxes (they're all wrong in case you haven't noticed).

 

What especially sucks is that some of this stuff could be *easily* fixed (hint: bounding boxes that don't take arbitrary lods into account), yet it's "all" broken (or missing) since years. Years. No hyperbole.

Priorities, eh... of course, not all is broken, and so much stuff got better in the meantime. But sometimes (depending on what you'd like to be doing) all it takes is a bad apple to spoil the bunch, isn't it.

 

Well, I've settled for the following coping mechanism: if an idea requires too much ugly work and hacks or other stupid shit, then I'm out. Keep to things that work just fine, ignore/abort anything else. No convoys, generally no (mission critical) AI driving, no this, no that. No, no, no. ...doesn't really make me happy though, so it remains to be a constant struggle.

 

BIS's coping mechanism (with respect to driving) seems to be the ol' spongebob "5 hours later..." cutscene, while I'm pretty sure, back in OFP/Resistance days you'd be driving around in the back of a truck for minutes... Similarly we have video-action sequences, as opposed to pure kick ass ingame machinima. And we now also have those stupid quick-action hit SPACE events... okay, those are maybe not too bad for super specific stuff. But I don't like the overall direction and smell of more and more smokes and mirrors. Or do I imagine things now? Probably off-topic anyways, so... item.

[road runner 4344]

On 3/12/2018 at 4:19 AM, warlord554 said:

With that said though MAYBE a new engine will bring out some old timers here whenever the next one comes out

Which is at least 2 years away minimum.

There's zero incentive to rekindle ones passion for addon making IMHO, take a look at the WIP section, some projects are entering their 2-3 years in development, these will highly unlikely see the light of day.

 

Unless the new version has significantly improved AI, and can be modded, then why would addon makers return to the current set up?? 

The DLC thing is just not catered towards small time individuals, there's just far too much involved to get it from concept to production, it's a hobby for most people, again at the risk of upsetting a few people, it's my belief BI are leaning more towards the likes of Red Hammer studios, RKSL and Icebreaker, or an organised group of individuals, who have a proven track record(s).

This DLC thing crosses the boundary of doing it for the love of the game, and the community, to becomes a professional business deal. Where the ultimate goal is to produce a DLC that will generate an revenue for that individual/organisation. 

It baffles me that BI spent so much making really cool interiors for the Tanks DLC, where the putting said vehicles in a convoy with AI drivers will result in a spectacle like herding cats, where AI are as dumb as a box of frogs.

AI that have difficulty path finding, why would anyone want to pay for a 3rd party DLC when AI walk off roofs to their deaths, cannot climb ladders, to name a few things that lose their appeal. 

[sgt_hawkins 9]

Imo Arma 3 is a bit restrictive when it comes to modders and mission makers. I enjoy making missions that are dark and complex. Not just the typical red vs blue army in Arma 3. The lack of females also makes it feel unnatural.

 

In Arma2 I had enemy soldiers setting female civilians on fire and executing the males. It made the war feel real. The enemy felt real. Arma 3 doesn't give me any motivation because it restricts the story that I want to create.

 

The more limitations you put on a game the quicker people get bored of it and this is coming from a guy who played ofp till Arma came out. 

 

I think people will come back once they give players more control over what they can do and create.

 

[lexx 1364]

Not that I wouldn't want women back, but I disagree that shock value is necessary to create good and "real" missions 

[Rich_R 1087]

1 hour ago, lexx said:

Not that I wouldn't want women back, but I disagree that shock value is necessary to create good and "real" missions 

 

Agree. War is an ugly beast to begin with, we certainly don't need to plumb its depths in a video game.

[Incontinentia 339]

Just a comment on the younger generation disrespecting modders idea.

 

As someone relatively new to modding / scripting, I really haven't seen this. All I've really had so far has been support, gratitude and respect for anything I've put out. Possibly not as much as the amount of hours that goes into it might warrant, but I enjoy it and wouldn't do it otherwise so that's not a problem. Even on Steam, there are a few idiots but it's the internet so obviously that's the case. The vast majority have been supportive and helpful. Surprisingly so. So while it's easy to be a cynic about how the times are changing and all that, I think it's good to recognise that arseholes have always existed and they continue to remain just a small minority. 

[Hvymtal 1251]

 There have always been whiners and there always will be, but that never has nor ever will represent the actual pulse of a large group of people. To get on a bit of a generational soapbox, people have ragged on those damn kids (of which I am proudly one of) for as long as there has been organized civilization. They always blame those damn kids for the "death" of everything (Millennials are killing X), at least until a "big one" war happens and those damn kids bear the brunt of it, then the old farts can't shut up about how great those wonderful veterans are (look at the relationship between the lost generation and the greatest generation before and after WWII; it's hilarious). Talking with disdain about those damn kids only makes us damn kids have disdain for older people who all automatically assume we are assholes, and only creates a cycle of "what a fucking asshole"-ism. Furthermore, it also ignores the fact that a very large amount of older people are total assholes as well and are equally as likely to be disrespectful as those damn kids. Stop it, shit-talking goes nowhere except down.

 

Getting back on topic, I've tried to get into it several times but have never actually been able to do much more than retextures. I've put one or two of them up on Armaholic under a different name and the lack of a response whatsoever is really disheartening; the fact that people in general are so reluctant to embrace new modders who try to get started with some simple and modest stuff like retextures and configs. People either are shits and tell them how terrible their stuff is, or they just don't pay any attention at all. That's a real shame, many of them do want to go on to bigger and better things, but when they feel like their time is being wasted it turns into a total chicken-and-egg scenario where people want to make awesome stuff are totally turned off by the possibility, nay the near-fact that unless their thing is at least as good as BI's stuff, has a very wide breadth, or fills a very specific niche, they will get ignored completely (I have at least 10 google docs of things I would do if I were to suddenly become a modeling, texturing, and config god overnight). 

 

And I'm not talking out of my ass here,  I am absolutely saying this as someone who has indeed tried not only in Arma but other games as well and got either shit on or ignored. I have loads of ideas sitting on my google docs for if I become a modeling, texturing, and config god overnight, but unless people are willing to support newcomers in their modest beginnings earnestly, the situation is probably not going to change. The fact that newcomers are shamed for even thinking about asking for monetary donations is even worse, but that's a whole other can of worms.

 

 

[x3kj 1247]

On 14.3.2018 at 12:36 AM, road runner said:

There's zero incentive to rekindle ones passion for addon making IMHO, take a look at the WIP section, some projects are entering their 2-3 years in development, these will highly unlikely see the light of day.

That's normal in modding... lots of big plans , not enough perseverance/ priority to complete it (because it's a lot of work for the insubstantial benefit of enjoying a game a bit more, or getting a tiny bit of internet fame)

 

On 19.3.2018 at 1:25 PM, Hvymtal said:

 I've put one or two of them up on Armaholic under a different name and the lack of a response whatsoever is really disheartening; the fact that people in general are so reluctant to embrace new modders who try to get started with some simple and modest stuff like retextures and configs.

If you do it for anyone but yourself, that's can seem like the case. The easier works (like retextures and smaller config modifications) are dime a dozen for the very reason that they are usually easier to get into. Most of the time its not even retexture, and just recoloring essentially... In Multiplayer games, that require all people to use the same mods, success of little individual "tinker" mods is limited, because barely anyone can convince multiple people to adopt them. Without infrastructure to automatically load mods on server joining this is amplified considerably - server owners are discouraged to use many tiny mods. In SP games (Skyrim and Fallout prime examples) tinker mods are more popular, but even more dime a dozen. If you do it for the fame or recognition you need to do something exceptionally good or new or fill a very popular desire - generally, if you do it alone. Otherwise 'going large' by collaborating with other people makes the work stand out more, but that is not guaranteed either.

Some people are absolutely spoiled by the current day situation and take free quality mods for granted and they don't even thank the developers  (10 years ago this was much less the case). The "easy click" nature of Steam workshop promotes this.

 

It's harder to get into the "deep" stuff like modelling, simply because you are not allowed or encouraged to tinker with original models. I started seriously starting modelling with X3, where i first did simple kitbashes (taking different pieces of models and combining them to get new spaceships or stations). Arma's setting (mostly realistic military/ realworld objects) doesn't lend itself to creativity and therefore to people not experimenting as much. Its possible to do, but propably no one would want to use Frankenstein T72 chassis with M1A2 turret with BMP turret on top.

 

And if do something outside of "the box" chances are you barely get any response from the resident community here. Just look at my total conversion topic and the 'overwhelming' response. If i would do it for internet fame i would have long stopped.

 

The more you work on a game the more you learn it's flaws and limits. Simple truth.

 

Oh and shameless plug - i'm looking for people who would like to help with configs (and more) - see signature.

[joostsidy 685]

1 hour ago, x3kj said:

Frankenstein T72 chassis with M1A2 turret with BMP turret on top.

 

Did you upload this to the Steam Workshop? I need this for my upcoming Dieselpunk Survival RPG mod.

 

I agree with x3kj. Do it for yourself, or you might go crazy. The internet can be brutal. I've created some very modest mods (mostly retexture/recoloring), but even these can take dozens of hours to create with proper color masks and finetuning the textures for Arma lighting. I've created them just for me and added them on Steam in the interest of sharing. I expected nothing* so I appreciate the downloads and a couple of 'thanks, cheers'.

 

IMO: I feel it is often not worthwhile to invest hundreds or thousands of hours into modding. You will be hindered and disappointed by life events, boredom, restrictions of the game, lukewarm reception, criticism, lack of Arma playing time, etc. For some projects I wished the (very talented) people would have just invested the time in creating their own game instead of attempting an over-ambitious mod for Arma 3!

 

Of course, everyone is free to try, and some beautiful things have been made, but maybe there should be an Arma mod project planning checklist which will give you an estimate of the feasibility of your idea.

 

Some suggestions for questions: true/false

- Has anyone ever called you 'idea guy'?
- Your mod idea is particularly funny or interesting and will remain so even after staring at it for hundreds of hours
- Your mod idea attemps to reflect real life as close as possible with a never ending asymtotic approximation to reality. For instance, it features a CUP compatible Snickers bar with proper 1986 model wrapper delivered to the map in realistic quantities calculated by an economic model with era appropriate parameters.
- You are a little surprised that no one attempted or apparently thought of this great idea of this asset that requires full underwater simulation and walking on movable decks with asset size larger than 300m2. 

 

* full disclosure: with one mod I decided that I would consider it a succes if more than ten people would download it. They did! :-)

[skameykin22 0]

Interesting post.