Laqueesha 474 Posted May 31, 2017 I've also seen AI run out in front of their buddies during combat and get shot and killed by friendly fire. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rydygier 1317 Posted May 31, 2017 Quote That's the issue, I noticed vehicles do try to avoid soldiers, And what, if they woulnd't try? Because perhaps it's bypassing attempt, where chaos starts (and nothing weird in that, perfectly expected). I mean, depending on set behavior mode, driver could act more, like in real life - rather stop (+ horn) if any unit/manned vehicle obstacle ahead, than trying to bypass. While "obstacle" should react on the vehicle behind/horn, if possible freeing the passage. In general - also in case of road traffic I would propose an approach based on analysis and emulation of the real life expected behaviors in given situation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dmarkwick 261 Posted May 31, 2017 45 minutes ago, Laqueesha said: I've also seen AI run out in front of their buddies during combat and get shot and killed by friendly fire. Seen many humans do that too :) I'm OK with accidental FF of this nature. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Man Without Qualities 110 Posted May 31, 2017 It is more complicated: 1st the vehicle must be somehow aware about a possible conflict on its valid path. I dunno if BIS is able to test on a narrow "beam" in the direction of movement or along valid path xxx metres ahead. In addition the direction and speed of possible interfering units should be known. The repetition time of the conflict test should depend on distance+direction+speed+type of the objects (I guess air and naval can be ignored since they move in different layers). I do not expect a CPU killer by this because if a vehicle AI is detecting pedestrians AT the street AND it has line of sight (well, it would be unreal to break for a unit which is hidden) then the vehicle AI should trigger actions like slowing down/emergency stop/changing direction. To avoid that pedestrians hindering vehicle movement there should be a routine for pedestrians to leave the road outside towns when vehicles are in visual/accustic detection range. That would hopefully make actions by vehicle AI obsolete in many cases. In cities or areas where roads are used by pedestrians and vehicles the vehicles should move very slow in general. The idea of a crude "communication" between vehicles and pedestrian is cool. Using as human a horn should drive AI pedestrians ahead out of the way. AI driver itself could detect that path is blocked and signal that to blocking friendly AI, hostile AI can be killed :-) AI driver could also use horn in this case to generate some RL feeling. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krycek 349 Posted May 31, 2017 If something like this could be possible it would be a huge improvement(although I realize the tanks are scripted for a predefined path): Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wsxcgy 1960 Posted June 1, 2017 if it was so easy and simple to "just fix it", don't you think they would have already? this isn't new. this is a grey area, this is not black and white. and if a multitude of community addons to remedy the issue in the besy ways possible are "unacceptable", well I'm sorry bud but I guess you're stuck with an "unacceptable" game. I, personally, would rather spackle a hole in my wall than tear the whole wall down and demand the original, and very busy and preoccupied, contractors who built the house to come and build me a new wall. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kremator 1065 Posted June 1, 2017 Mouse over my avatar and you'll see I've been around a LONG time here. If I thought it was an unacceptible game I wouldn't STILL be playing it. However, there are issues that have never really been dealt with by BIS - driving is one of them (jesus, just look at tanks - they can't even reverse !) This thread isn't about reversing tanks, but about immersion breaking AI roadrage! It just so happens that DRIVING OVER TROOPS is as immersion breaking as it can get. If we don't keep complaining about this then nothing will get done and you'll be 'spackling' your whole life. Oh and less of the 'bud' - you don't know me well enough. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fn_Quiksilver 1636 Posted June 1, 2017 On 5/31/2017 at 1:28 AM, kremator said: I've just been watching (voyeur style) a series of battles using @zonekiller Battlezone. For those uninitiated it is a mixed arms mission. Time after time the thing that pisses me off is how ANY vehicle will run down troops like they aren't there. EVEN WORSE ... the troops NEVER jump out of the way! @DEVS you've really had quite a bit of time to sort this. Either make drivers smarter or AI troops smarter (to avoid being squished). Please don't ask for repro steps ... play ANY MISSION ! I bought Arma3 ... not Mad Max !! arma 3 development is being finished off, resources divested to other BI projects (including as-yet unannounced projects). basically AI was a very low priority for arma 3 development and they simply didnt get around to resolving issues or improving the core AI systems in any meaningful way. add to that the AI wheeled-vehicle driving has been Broken for about a year now. Only small minority of Arma users play with/against AI anyways, so i guess it doesnt make sense to fix or improve it much Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rydygier 1317 Posted June 2, 2017 7 hours ago, fn_Quiksilver said: basically AI was a very low priority for arma 3 development Currently seems valid as for SP in general judging by recent development activities. Makes me wonder, how A4 will look like then. Quote Only small minority of Arma users play with/against AI anyways, so i guess it doesnt make sense to fix or improve it much Which means even less such users, which is a pity, I'm one of them, but if there will be nothing for such people, where would they go? Those statistics are based on what data sources? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fn_Quiksilver 1636 Posted June 2, 2017 8 minutes ago, Rydygier said: Seems valid as for SP in general judging by recent development activities. Makes me wonder, how A4 will look like then. Which means even less such users, which is a pity, I'm one of them, but if there will be nothing for such people, where would they go? Those statistics are based on what data sources? A4 = modder generated content and player-generated gameplay :) paid developers and AI/official gameplay not required!! is cheaper business model. okay some joke there but also some sad reality if past company behavior is a predictor of future. wake me up when BI employs an actual AI programmer for long-term employment contract. data from arma3.swec.se , not 100% reliable but provides a picture at least. most arma users running around gangbanging on Life mod or run n gun on KotH/wasteland/zombies/etc I compliment BI when they do well and criticize when they are negligent of a core component of their game. was a management failure, not designer/developer failure. the "id rather not spend $x to hire 1-2 designers to improve the arma AI" decision 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Man Without Qualities 110 Posted June 2, 2017 8 hours ago, fn_Quiksilver said: arma 3 development is being finished off, resources divested to other BI projects (including as-yet unannounced projects). basically AI was a very low priority for arma 3 development and they simply didnt get around to resolving issues or improving the core AI systems in any meaningful way. add to that the AI wheeled-vehicle driving has been Broken for about a year now. Only small minority of Arma users play with/against AI anyways, so i guess it doesnt make sense to fix or improve it much Oh, this time I totally disagree with you. You trapped into a chicken-egg misinterpretation. The reason WHY so few utilization of AI is BECAUSE they behave crazy and suck performance like hell. IF BIS would solve that from the generic design, even when it comes in A4, the take up rate of CTI might look different. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rydygier 1317 Posted June 2, 2017 1 hour ago, The Man Without Qualities said: he reason WHY so few utilization of AI is BECAUSE they behave crazy and suck performance like hell. For sure it's a factor, in fact, mechanism here could work both ways. Not much SP players due to poor AI and simultanously poor AI due to not much SP players. Positive feedback loop logic. BTW I would rather stop playing Arma at all than switch to MP due to lack SP-oriented features. 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HeroesandvillainsOS 1504 Posted June 2, 2017 COOP and Survive take up almost 50% of that graph. And I'm sure AI are sprinkled into some of the other categories. How is that graph proof people don't play with AI? Is that "survive" as in DayZ-type modes? Zombies count as AI, yeah? And a lot of those zombie modes have enemy AI soldier groups sprinkled in too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kremator 1065 Posted June 2, 2017 I don't mind running over Zombies but I do mind running over my own. Come to think of it, even a zombie making SOME attempt at getting out of the way of a vehicle would be amazing. Upshot of all this is .... we NEED a) better drivers b) smarter life-preserving AI c) a+b Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alex150201 894 Posted June 2, 2017 20 hours ago, kremator said: Mouse over my avatar and you'll see I've been around a LONG time here. If I thought it was an unacceptible game I wouldn't STILL be playing it. However, there are issues that have never really been dealt with by BIS - driving is one of them (jesus, just look at tanks - they can't even reverse !) This thread isn't about reversing tanks, but about immersion breaking AI roadrage! It just so happens that DRIVING OVER TROOPS is as immersion breaking as it can get. If we don't keep complaining about this then nothing will get done and you'll be 'spackling' your whole life. Oh and less of the 'bud' - you don't know me well enough. Okay this is getting a bit out of hand. While I do agree with your points and there is a lot of stuff the upsets me in the game, you have to learn to be nicer to people that try to be helpful like wsxcgy. He tried to nicely reply to you but you decided to be rude. I actually don't mind at all bringing up problems, even though very well known, I do mind though when you decide to be rude and offensive to people trying to help. I will leave this here for now. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wsxcgy 1960 Posted June 2, 2017 1 minute ago, Alex150201 said: Okay this is getting a bit out of hand. While I do agree with your points and there is a lot of stuff the upsets me in the game, you have to learn to be nicer to people that try to be helpful like wsxcgy. He tried to nicely reply to you but you decided to be rude. I actually don't mind at all bringing up problems, even though very well known, I do mind though when you decide to be rude and offensive to people trying to help. I will leave this here for now. I was being a little passive aggressive, and I certainly wasn't helping, you don't need to worry or hail me as something I'm not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fn_Quiksilver 1636 Posted June 2, 2017 6 hours ago, HeroesandvillainsOS said: COOP and Survive take up almost 50% of that graph. And I'm sure AI are sprinkled into some of the other categories. How is that graph proof people don't play with AI? Is that "survive" as in DayZ-type modes? Zombies count as AI, yeah? And a lot of those zombie modes have enemy AI soldier groups sprinkled in too. I dont think we or Bohemia are interested in zombie AI. they have very nice title "DayZ" to satisfy those needs. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HeroesandvillainsOS 1504 Posted June 2, 2017 12 minutes ago, fn_Quiksilver said: I dont think we or Bohemia are interested in zombie AI. they have very nice title "DayZ" to satisfy those needs. I agree with you there (though I do enjoy a zombie romp from time to time!). I'm just saying 16% of that graph is undoubtedly AI related, and was looking for clarification on the other chunk which I'm sure consists (or can consist) of a lot of AI too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Man Without Qualities 110 Posted June 3, 2017 They created DayZ because that is the best you can do with Ai as is - zombies :-) Ok, that's not nice, was a joke. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JojoTheSlayer 35 Posted June 17, 2017 On 30/05/2017 at 5:28 PM, kremator said: I bought Arma3 ... not Mad Max !! I bought both games, but I still agree. :D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JD Wang 352 Posted June 22, 2017 Just going to leave this here to show how much better it can be with a little scripting 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
