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kremator

Oh the humanity ! Please save our AI soldiers !

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I've just been watching (voyeur style) a series of battles using @zonekiller Battlezone.  For those uninitiated it is a mixed arms mission.

 

Time after time the thing that pisses me off is how ANY vehicle will run down troops like they aren't there.  EVEN WORSE ... the troops NEVER jump out of the way!

 

@DEVS you've really had quite a bit of time to sort this.  Either make drivers smarter or AI troops smarter (to avoid being squished).  Please don't ask for repro steps ... play ANY MISSION !

 

I bought Arma3 ... not Mad Max !!

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It's not exactly a fix, but Rydygier's Liability Insurance makes the troops invulnerable when run over by their faction vehicles.For me it's essential because I was also tired with all this Carmageddon behaviour in Ofp-Arma series and seeing that they never bothered to fix it. It was especially bad on smaller streets where a tank or ifv could take out half a squad by either suddenly speeding or turning around.

 

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So it became worst with 1.70 or is it just a sudden eruption about the as is since ever?

I played few hours CTI since 1.70 and the kill rate is high as usual. No town trespassing of vehicles in an friendly but active town without killing a few town defense troops if at street.

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I know of the fix.  Not good enough. 

 

It has always been this bad.  When vehicles are less than 30m they should go into cover (at least that would get them off the road !)

 

We need a fix @DEVs. 

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1 hour ago, kremator said:

I know of the fix.  Not good enough. 

 

It has always been this bad.  When vehicles are less than 30m they should go into cover (at least that would get them off the road !)

 

We need a fix @DEVs. 

 

Ha! you are a motorist! Right of way for vehics! :don9:

German way: slow down to 7 km/h and pass with maximum distance to the pedestrian!

 

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1 hour ago, kremator said:

It has always been this bad.  When vehicles are less than 30m they should go into cover (at least that would get them off the road !)

 

We need a fix @DEVs. 

I would add that the vehicle AI should also have (a lot) more improved pathfinding. If the infantry goes into cover or they advance through a street backed by their armor the AI vehicle shouldn't get confused and try to avoid the left or right side guys that are already 2-3m away from it.

Simply advance or back away if the front and back is clear(assuming the infantry went into cover).

Right now AI is like this "hmm some guys in front and another dude left of my side, gonna stop and try to avoid them, ok maybe I move a bit, nope I stop again:suspect:......bzzzz well fuck this,I'm running over everyone".

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It's been there since OFP AFAIK. If it's serves anything, sometimes that also happens in real life. Specially with tanks, as they have really bad visibility. :dozingoff:

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Still not really acceptable however.  It seems that all vehicles really do head towards for you.

 

Just spent 30 minutes watching a 'shit' ballet where about 15 vehicles TRIED to get through a town at the same time.  Just sad.  If I'd thown a series of troops in there too ... ALL would be dead !

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 I find the Liability script the best compromise for now. Your guys get injured but dont die seems fair but is no long term solution. Its really, really time for some deep AI config busting.

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Well, it's that or nothing atm, so i'd take the plaster over nothing till better solutions are presented... other then that, it's like throwing paper into the water.

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...and hence the reason for posting this.  To give this issue some airtime for DEVs to ponder.

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I think they noted it the first 5 or so times this popped up just in A3 lifespan (not counting numberous times this was discussed during earlier titles) but without suggestions/analysis/indepth dissection this will be lost in forum history, like tears in rain. And like all the other similar treads.

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Here's a suggestion ... fix it.

 

Here's the analysis ... mixed arms doesn't work as AI (should actually call them AS - Artificial Stupidity) can't move out of a bloody vehicle !

 

Can't be arsed with the indepth dissection.

 

I CAN however put this on general so that DEVs know that we (the supporters for a LONG time!) would like it looked into.  Blah blah .... squeaky wheel etc etc

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Actually it would be quite interesting, if AI pedestrians would leap to safety, if a vehicle would head towards them at a certain speed. The animations are all there that could be used for that.

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5 hours ago, kremator said:

Here's a suggestion ... fix it.

 

Here's the analysis ... mixed arms doesn't work as AI (should actually call them AS - Artificial Stupidity) can't move out of a bloody vehicle !

 

Can't be arsed with the indepth dissection.

 

I CAN however put this on general so that DEVs know that we (the supporters for a LONG time!) would like it looked into.  Blah blah .... squeaky wheel etc etc

We have already maximum attention of the devs. :drinking2:

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The attention in that thread you quoted is about navigation of roads. I'm not talking about that directly. My point is about saving soldiers from being run over! 

 

Either soldiers get a way to avoid traffic or vehicles have an extra check for pedestrians. 

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Both. vehicles should slow down to give themselves more reaction time in case of sudden direction changes plus pedestrians should leave the road if possible until vehicle passed.

That could be done even without crowd management.

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49 minutes ago, The Man Without Qualities said:

Both. vehicles should slow down to give themselves more reaction time in case of sudden direction changes plus pedestrians should leave the road if possible until vehicle passed.

That could be done even without crowd management.

It's not only about passing vehicles,it's also a problem if you have infantry grouped with vehicles.It was bearable in OFP times because most fights were on open field and the towns were pretty small, but now it's really bad.Combined arms in Kavala or Georgetown is a recipe for friendly carnage when even a stupid Mrap can go ballistic.

 

This needs addressed because that script may not work in the future so we won't even have that plaster. Not to mention if there will be an Arma 4 and legacy bugs get transferred over again we might not have a Rydygier's Liability script there.

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I suspect that performance issues might play a role in the decision to not address this. To successfully evade nearby vehicles and infantry, units should scan (relatively far) in front of them and behind them. This might take a lot of processing power and become a problem with using a lot of units at the same time.

 

Many units seem near sighted while moving. You can see the same thing with headlights (and flashlights etc.). They shine only a short distance and aimed at the ground. This is probably because the dynamic lights are expensive in processing power so BI configured them to only use a short distance.

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It would be the same as sending units into cover .... they have to find that cover first of all.  Surely you'd just have to set a temporary waypoint OFF the road by 10m then get the troops back on again when the vehicle has passed.

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Have the vehicles slow to a crawl when near to footsoldiers would probably help (which reflects RL I believe especially when NOT on roads). And maybe have the trigger that causes soldiers to move away on the vehicle too. Some area in front of the vehicle that monitors for units and triggers in them a move-out-the-way function. And soldier units could benefit by walking alongside roads rather than on roads maybe, although this would probably get confusing with trails etc. Having units themselves monitor for vehicles would probably get expensive.

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1 minute ago, dmarkwick said:

Have the vehicles slow to a crawl when near to footsoldiers would probably help (which reflects RL I believe especially when NOT on roads). And maybe have the trigger that causes soldiers to move away on the vehicle too. Some area in front of the vehicle that monitors for units and triggers in them a move-out-the-way function. And soldier units could benefit by walking alongside roads rather than on roads maybe, although this would probably get confusing with trails etc. Having units themselves monitor for vehicles would probably get expensive.

THIS ^^ !!!!!!ELEVEN1111!!

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21 minutes ago, dmarkwick said:

Have the vehicles slow to a crawl when near to footsoldiers would probably help (which reflects RL I believe especially when NOT on roads). And maybe have the trigger that causes soldiers to move away on the vehicle too. Some area in front of the vehicle that monitors for units and triggers in them a move-out-the-way function. And soldier units could benefit by walking alongside roads rather than on roads maybe, although this would probably get confusing with trails etc. Having units themselves monitor for vehicles would probably get expensive.

 

That's the issue, I noticed vehicles do try to avoid soldiers, they get into a stop/move/stop/move dance, but after a while a glitch/bug(they get angry?! :P ) makes them forget this and they start running over friendlies.

 

If every soldier scanning for vehicles could become a CPU problem, then it would be better if the focus would be on AI driving.So the vehicles should scan in front or back for soldiers on the road and stop no matter what until there is a clear way.

The only issue I see here would be that if a vehicle or armor is grouped to infantry and the squad leader is on foot, the vehicle would either stop if friendlies are in front or it will override this behaviour because it received a move\attack order from the squad leader.:scratchchin:

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