Jets - Sensor overhaul (Radars, IRs, Lazors, PGMs)

[Jack Ost 124]

5 hours ago, oukej said:

Try

player action ["ActiveSensorsOn", vehicle player]

The actions are ActiveSensorsOn, ActiveSensorsOff. Ref. CfgActions

Thanks a lot for your answer. It's not yet on the wiki page so I thought there was nothing about.

[gatordev 219]

FWIW, modern day MTS pods have both Thermal and a LL/NV capability.  Having that capability wouldn't be "unrealistic" if it were included (or more specifically, included as an option for the mission maker).

[x3kj 1247]

On 16.2.2017 at 11:49 AM, oukej said:

It should be possible using just the config :)
Take a look at https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_3_Custom_Info#Properties, SensorsDisplay >> showTargetTypes. You can also check the RscCustomInfoSensor resource and create your own instead of it. Define your own symbology, use red dots instead of the warning sectors, etc.

It seems like that its not possible to define warning sectors just for when an active radar was detected. Unless i'm missing something? Only when you get locked do you get a sector shown. But you get shown exactly where the radar is located pretty much - and this is not good for older airplanes (or even some contemporary ones). It gives too much information.  In old planes you know which direction you get detected and locked from, and signal strength. Maybe also what weapon system type locks you. But thats it.

In the current sensor display every radar user pulls his pants down as soon as radar is switched on basically -> exact bearing and distance is known immediately. This makes the gameplay alot less interesting - which is why i would appreciate methods to simulate older systems as well.

 

On top of this issue comes (in Vanilla A3) that CAS planes use IR as sensors. So even if the ground radar user switches radar off, the CAS pilot knows the position pretty well from his display and can easily find him by magic-IR lock. And in return, vanilla AA vehicles can't lock on via IR with guns. AA vehicles should get IR lock capability against air targets.

[dragon01 902]

There's nothing magic about the IR lock. It really does work that well IRL. It's very difficult to hide in IR spectrum. Vehicles (such as mobile AA) give out a staggering amount of heat. This heat can be detected from quite far away. Real IR locking is a bit more involved than it is right now (you have to mark the target on TGP, but you can control it from the cockpit), but it really is that powerful.

 

I think this balances the power of AA vehicles versus aircraft pretty well. If you lock onto a plane with an AA vehicle, you better shot it down, otherwise it will quickly find and nail you.

[x3kj 1247]

Quote

If you lock onto a plane with an AA vehicle, you better shot it down, otherwise it will quickly find and nail you.

with the pitifull AA IR missiles and short range cannons (which require to reveal yourself by locking with radar even) easier said than done. AA IRL also have means to lock targets optically these days (which is a lot easier too, since the sky produces basically no clutter and jet exhausts are very hot). Ingame they dont have that strangely.

 

2 hours ago, dragon01 said:

 is a bit more involved than it is right now (you have to mark the target on TGP, but you can control it from the cockpit)

The magic is not the IR lock itself, its that every viable enemy/friendly IR vehicle target (air and ground alike) is displayed like on a radar -  and you can lock it up immediately via "R" - no searching or fiddling with TGP required. The target doesnt even have to be active (even an inactive vehicle without any heat is immediately visible). This is what makes it magic. No noise or clutter. Just targets on a platter accessable via button press, without giving away your action like you would with radar. Honestly - i couldnt care less about vanilla balancing, because i dont play vanilla. If i would, i would modify it so that IR locking is possible, but without radar-like display and only when the target has been aquired visually by the player.

 

My main point is that this access to extremely detailed and uncluttered information is what makes the gameplay uninteresting and what makes certain assetts extremly (overly) powerfull. In the case of IR sensor display on CAS planes combined with automatic "next target" locking, its recalling faint memories of the A2 "tab-lock war". This is why i would like to see means for modders to reduce the precision of displayed information in particular (preferably by giving us ways to extract radar data via script commands).

 

On a side note - the issue with the "too detailed, uncluttered information" is not isolated to old/new sensors. It also applies to TI and NV view since they exist in Arma - they are also crystal clear and have extreme contrast - making them much more powerfull than they would be IRL.

 

[chortles 263]

4 hours ago, x3kj said:

On top of this issue comes (in Vanilla A3) that CAS planes use IR as sensors. So even if the ground radar user switches radar off, the CAS pilot knows the position pretty well from his display and can easily find him by magic-IR lock. And in return, vanilla AA vehicles can't lock on via IR with guns. AA vehicles should get IR lock capability against air targets.

In said vanilla AA vehicles (Cheetah and Tigris) we have an interesting case where they use active radar for finding targets but their missiles have IR sensors and weaponLockSystem = "2 + 16" (IR + "missile") in the ammo config, and you noted months ago that "[w]ith custom flags, one could implement exclusive detection of missiles" in regards to lock/launch... sounds like a case for doing this with community aircraft which in real life didn't have infrared-capable missile approach warning systems.

1 hour ago, x3kj said:

The magic is not the IR lock itself, its that every viable enemy/friendly IR vehicle target (air and ground alike) is displayed like on a radar -  and you can lock it up immediately via "R" - no searching or fiddling with TGP required. The target doesnt even have to be active (even an inactive vehicle without any heat is immediately visible).

No idea what you're referring to here, but in one of my early sensor tests (adding a sensor display and a commander's visual sensor to a tank) I found that a stationary, no-waypoints truck would not appear on the tank's sensor display when the tank's main gun/IR sensor was pointed at the truck because there was no heat, only appearing when the visual sensor was pointed that way.

[snoops_213 75]

The ability to lock radar sources with the RWR needs to be changed, shouldn't be able to do this unless there is a dedicated ARM  or  you are in your sensor range. Currently the AI will take out multiple AA units with active radar with out a problem. It should be they know the area to scan/avoid but unless they have an ARM they cant lock beyond their sensors. Can you make ARM  that takes out the radar component of a vehicle without necessarily taking out the whole vehicle? 

1 hour ago, chortles said:

In said vanilla AA vehicles (Cheetah and Tigris) we have an interesting case where they use active radar for finding targets but their missiles have IR sensors and weaponLockSystem = "2 + 16" (IR + "missile") in the ammo config, and you noted months ago that "[w]ith custom flags, one could implement exclusive detection of missiles" in regards to lock/launch... sounds like a case for doing this with community aircraft which in real life didn't have infrared-capable missile approach warning systems.

 

But missiles wont lock on to a target unless the Radar is active. Should the onboard seeker not try to lock its target no matter if the radar is off? 

[x3kj 1247]

7 hours ago, chortles said:

In said vanilla AA vehicles (Cheetah and Tigris) we have an interesting case where they use active radar for finding targets but their missiles have IR sensors

The missiles are just bog standard "stinger style" short range heat seakers. Thats just how they work. You open their seeker heads and they lock onto heat sources. Cheetah and Tigris also have TI vision, which is very good for detecting hot planes. But they can't lock on them optically, which shouldnt be the case - as thats pretty much standard now (even the old horse ZSU-23-4 got a retrofit for optical/visual tracking in poland. And thats not 2035 retrofit, thats a 2000 retrofit. )

Quote

No idea what you're referring to here, but in one of my early sensor tests (adding a sensor display and a commander's visual sensor to a tank) I found that a stationary, no-waypoints truck would not appear on the tank's sensor display when the tank's main gun/IR sensor was pointed at the truck because there was no heat, only appearing when the visual sensor was pointed that way.

Well plop down a target tank somewhere in the landscape, delete the driver and gunner (so that engine doesnt go on), then fly over it with CAS plane... Your "IR sensor" radar will pick it up no problemo right away. If you use TGP in TI you will have trouble finding the vehicle, because its almost the same heat as the ground.

 

5 hours ago, snoops_213 said:

The ability to lock radar sources with the RWR needs to be changed, shouldn't be able to do this unless there is a dedicated ARM  or  you are in your sensor range.

Agreed. RWR is too powerfull in this respect. The IR missiles on both AA tanks do lock without radar btw, so thats at least something.

 

Another thing: AI in careless mode do not use Radar. Wouldnt it be more fitting if they did?

[chortles 263]

7 hours ago, x3kj said:

The missiles are just bog standard "stinger style" short range heat seakers. Thats just how they work. You open their seeker heads and they lock onto heat sources. Cheetah and Tigris also have TI vision, which is very good for detecting hot planes. But they can't lock on them optically, which shouldnt be the case - as thats pretty much standard now (even the old horse ZSU-23-4 got a retrofit for optical/visual tracking in poland. And thats not 2035 retrofit, thats a 2000 retrofit. )

What you describe suggests an answer of 'visual sensor with animDirection="otochlaven" or "commander_turret"'... use active radar long enough to find target bearings, point the main turret/visual sensor towards them in order to maintain target tracking (and TLI for guns) then elevate as needed? I'm keeping in mind that I believe oukej already said here that the "lock" keybind is essentially an abstraction of "uncage seeker head", but there may be the possibility of Titan MPRL (AA)-style "starts locking on without you having to press T once you've gotten a slow-enough target in range within the missile lock cone."

7 hours ago, x3kj said:

Well plop down a target tank somewhere in the landscape, delete the driver and gunner (so that engine doesnt go on), then fly over it with CAS plane... Your "IR sensor" radar will pick it up no problemo right away. If you use TGP in TI you will have trouble finding the vehicle, because its almost the same heat as the ground.

Noticed this just now with the Wipeout, which seems like a change from my prior testing and all the more odd since the Buzzard (CAS) didn't exhibit this issue even with a manned opposing tank -- or even with active radar on. Speaking of active radar, I believe oukej mentioned that they would use it in Combat mode.

[heavygunner 179]

Quote

• Tweaked: AI skill - General now influences the reaction time for using countermeasures

I appreciate this change.

 

[Trixas 0]

Just wanted to ask, are countermeasure flares changing or it's still same ~30 flares spray?

[WastedMike_ 27]

Any idea when this update will go to the live build?

[heavygunner 179]

It's still along way off, IMO. First they have to release the 64bit update in the next weeks and then we have still no clue about the content coming as of yet. Also BIS still haven't disclosed how much the DLCs cost and if there will be things like a season pass for it. 

[o5_ 7]

It's still along way off, IMO. First they have to release the 64bit update in the next weeks and then we have still no clue about the content coming as of yet. Also BIS still haven't disclosed how much the DLCs cost and if there will be things like a season pass for it. 

Season pass? Really? Where or when has BIS ever suggested such a thing? I highly doubt they'd pull any BS like that..... Ewwwww

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

[WastedMike_ 27]

2 minutes ago, heavygunner said:

It's still along way off, IMO. First they have to release the 64bit update in the next weeks and then we have still no clue about the content coming as of yet. Also BIS still haven't disclosed how much the DLCs cost and if there will be things like a season pass for it. 

 

Thanks for the insight, hopefully they will give us the details soon and put the DLC for sale so I can buy it.

[heavygunner 179]

10 minutes ago, o5_ said:

 

Season pass? Really? Where or when has BIS ever suggested such a thing? I highly doubt they'd pull any BS like that..... Ewwwww

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
 

 

http://store.steampowered.com/app/304400

 

.....

[o5_ 7]

http://store.steampowered.com/app/304400
 
.....

AM I missing something? I just see DLC. I know they release DLC's and even bundles but I've never seen them do a season pass.

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

[WastedMike_ 27]

5 minutes ago, o5_ said:

 

AM I missing something? I just see DLC. I know they release DLC's and even bundles but I've never seen them do a season pass.

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
 

 

 

That isn't a season pass, it is a dlc bundle that only includes those dlc and not future ones.

[chortles 263]

There was a season pass in the Supporter Edition -- only available during the game's 'alpha' and 'beta' periods -- but that's it.

[heavygunner 179]

A DLC bundle and a season pass are the same thing.

[NoPOW 59]

1 hour ago, heavygunner said:

A DLC bundle and a season pass are the same thing.

A season pass is a DLC bundle, but not all DLC bundles are season passes...

[ski2060 167]

A Season pass gets you all the DLC AS THEY ARE RELEASED.  It's a subscription.  You pay one price, then you get them automatically.

That BUNDLE is just that.  It is a group of DLC that they stuck together for one price AFTER they were all released.   One price when the last one in that pack came out.

NOT the same thing.

On Topic:
Loving the changes so far.  This will be a paradigm changer and people just don't realize it yet.    I only wish I could get my unit pilots to help me test things out :(

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

This is the Jet Sensor Overhaul Thread. Take it to the appropriate thread please.

[dragon01 902]

I can confirm what the others are saying. Despite Buzzard's radar range being 8km, I can only detect an (unarmed) Orca from about 3.7km. 

 

Also, I noticed a strange issue with AA Buzzard's loadout. The Zephyrs appear on the outboard and middle pylons, the inboard pylons are blank and ASRAAMs don't appear at all.

[heavygunner 179]

4 hours ago, ski2060 said:

A Season pass gets you all the DLC AS THEY ARE RELEASED.  It's a subscription.  You pay one price, then you get them automatically.

That BUNDLE is just that.  It is a group of DLC that they stuck together for one price AFTER they were all released.   One price when the last one in that pack came out.

NOT the same thing.

On Topic:
Loving the changes so far.  This will be a paradigm changer and people just don't realize it yet.    I only wish I could get my unit pilots to help me test things out :(