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I think they have their places, as long as they're properly balanced for their power.  You can deny whole lanes with one LMG, even if it doesn't land any kills.  But they do need to account for the weight.  And in reality, these are weapons made to be unbalanced. IRL, LMG recoil really is quite tame compared to what most people would assume.  But that's not all that fun. They need heavier recoil without deployment to keep things competitive.  And they need to hinder movement more in CQB, both in movement speed (running speed and horizontal barrel movement) and accuracy while moving. 

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if the test base (amount of players) is big enough i guess it would not differ to have or not to have it, but if there needs to be a bigger player base, then i think it might help because clans attract

and it might help with more dedicated team gameplay  testing, as in map layout, communication, weapon diversity and usage, a dedicated team will more likely deploy different coordinated choices 

than a group of people by chance playing together.

 

if the teams would become fire teams, as in dedicated slots (if that is an option or in the planning) dedicated teams would have a trove of feedback.

 

i don't know if it makes sence to postpone it if this becomes a (competitive E sport) game eventually.

 

my simple question is, are there teams already or not ? how to find them and where ?

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My team is currently using it as a practice playground occasionally.  We've considered going to a few established arma group forums and talking trash, see if we can't get a few competitive scrimmages going.  We're all basically just waiting patiently to see what happens, while standing ready. 

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I think that the LIM needs to feel like Mar (or Cyrus, I forget which one it was) from the previous lot of weapons, powerful, but hugely clunky and awkward to use, with aiming and consistent fire from anything that isn't a deployed setup being incredibly difficult, as real LMGs are. Like in a pinch you should be able to spray down, but it should be so awkward that any rifle will beat you in CQB just because of the maneuverability.
 

I would say though that I think a lot of the people currently complaining about the LIM are also forgetting that it does currently have the massive drawback in seriously limiting how fast you can sprint around the map, making it really hard to attack with.

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My team is currently using it as a practice playground occasionally.  We've considered going to a few established arma group forums and talking trash, see if we can't get a few competitive scrimmages going.  We're all basically just waiting patiently to see what happens, while standing ready. 

I would advise that you get better at the game before you go to other groups forums and start talking trash.

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I just played a round with today's update. (nevermind my grumpy comments regarding the last update)

 

Thankfully, the MK18 is back (was that the weapon from the first release ?)

 

I love the setting for Link.

I had some insanely intense matches there right now.

 

I love the increasing respawn-timer, that is one heck of a marvellous idea !

 

I like how I have great tension when playing Project Argo, but when I lose I am not angry (as it happendsin some other games, because there is stuff you cannot counter or imbalance) Because it's all fair and matches can go back and forth and so on. Really well balanced, not OP stuff in this game so far. Impressive !

 

weitermachen !

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Hello Bohemia Interactive team,

 

I have played with the last 3 maps/gear setups and here is my non-map-and-gear-specific feedback so far:

 

The good

  • The gameplay. The choice for 5v5 seems to work really well. And once teams are reasonably balanced, games get really tense.
  • The maps. The maps are not BattleDuty clones. They feel unique and well thought out. Objects and buildings are clearly placed with careful thought.
  • The less realistic stamina system, compared to Arma 3. It just works better for a fast paced shooter, and still provides enough of a limitation that the player has to be careful when to sprint.

The bad

  • Everything between double clinking a server in the server list and seeing my rifle in front of me, and from the moment a match finished till I see my rifle again. Just a few examples:
    • After the game you get into a screen where you can select your team. Except that the choice you make doesn't matter. After a few second on that screen, you will suddenly get a loading screen, which takes you back to the same screen again, only with the teams reset.
    • When loading a map, you get a sudden flash halfway through the loading screen. You think for a split second the loading is done, but nooooo it's just on it's half way mark. I think Arma had an extra confirmation screen at this point, which I also never understood, because what is the point of a screen where all you can do is press next. And to remove the screen in Project Argo, some virtual duck tape was applied to get a good-enough solution for the prototype.
    • The first few frames of being ingame there is massive lag due to objects still getting loaded in.
    • When using the mouse for browsing the Bohemia Interactive forums while your last remaining team mate camps the shit out of the spawn point, the screen just stops updating and audio is gone, meaning I have no clue when the match is over. Please don't pause the rendering engine and audio engine in border less window mode, And just never pause the audio, even when the game is alt-tabbed in full screen mode.
    • The accept button remains clickable, even if there is no functionality for it anymore. This just causes confusion.

Generally the loading and team selection feel very bogged down by the limitations of the engine. This is fine for a prototype, but it would be a pity if no improvement was made if the game is ever properly produced.

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I can say the same thing about todays update as @Rednax.

 

But after playing a few rounds of Raid, is there a way to play the old maps?

 

I mean sorry, this new Raid map is horrible. Bad design, almost no entraces and really bad to attack or defend. It's just not fun.

The old maps where.

 

Please BI, bring them back! Or atleast another, better, setting.

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  • When using the mouse for browsing the Bohemia Interactive forums while your last remaining team mate camps the shit out of the spawn point, the screen just stops updating and audio is gone, meaning I have no clue when the match is over. Please don't pause the rendering engine and audio engine in border less window mode, And just never pause the audio, even when the game is alt-tabbed in full screen mode.

 

Because Argo is pretty much Arma 3 right now, Arma startup parameter work in Argo as well. -noPause should do the trick.

 

Talking about map feedback I am afraid I have to join in the consensus. I played a little over 7 hours across all game modes and it left me with a rather stale aftertaste. I leave some more "in-depth" feedback after having slept about it.

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Hello Bohemia Interactive team,

 

I have played with the last 3 maps/gear setups and here is my non-map-and-gear-specific feedback so far:

 

The good

  • The gameplay. The choice for 5v5 seems to work really well. And once teams are reasonably balanced, games get really tense.
  • The maps. The maps are not BattleDuty clones. They feel unique and well thought out. Objects and buildings are clearly placed with careful thought.
  • The less realistic stamina system, compared to Arma 3. It just works better for a fast paced shooter, and still provides enough of a limitation that the player has to be careful when to sprint.

The bad

  • Everything between double clinking a server in the server list and seeing my rifle in front of me, and from the moment a match finished till I see my rifle again. Just a few examples:
    • After the game you get into a screen where you can select your team. Except that the choice you make doesn't matter. After a few second on that screen, you will suddenly get a loading screen, which takes you back to the same screen again, only with the teams reset.
    • When loading a map, you get a sudden flash halfway through the loading screen. You think for a split second the loading is done, but nooooo it's just on it's half way mark. I think Arma had an extra confirmation screen at this point, which I also never understood, because what is the point of a screen where all you can do is press next. And to remove the screen in Project Argo, some virtual duck tape was applied to get a good-enough solution for the prototype.
    • The first few frames of being ingame there is massive lag due to objects still getting loaded in.
    • When using the mouse for browsing the Bohemia Interactive forums while your last remaining team mate camps the shit out of the spawn point, the screen just stops updating and audio is gone, meaning I have no clue when the match is over. Please don't pause the rendering engine and audio engine in border less window mode, And just never pause the audio, even when the game is alt-tabbed in full screen mode.
    • The accept button remains clickable, even if there is no functionality for it anymore. This just causes confusion.

Generally the loading and team selection feel very bogged down by the limitations of the engine. This is fine for a prototype, but it would be a pity if no improvement was made if the game is ever properly produced.

Hi, as for the pausing. Try running the game with nopause parameter. Otherwise thanks for the great feedback.

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There were two times when one of my teammates was without a friendly marker. So I killed them. I'm sure that one time it was because of lags but the other one was without any reason.

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yesterday i had that spawn thing again where me and another spawned in the same spot dying even before the counter was done.

 

having played on 3 link maps now and i must say while i found the second map dull at first and strange to play in due to it being in nature rather than urban setting, i liked it better

it had the feel of more freedom and speed, the urban settings are not bad, but have more of a run and stop, run and stop feel to it where as the nature setting gives you a more fluid/dynamic action.

 

in the first public maps we had a hill in the middle of the map which also gave some more dynamics, the maps we have now are more close and "flat" , it all depends on gameplay prefferences so each map probably has a different feel for every one,

but i for one liked the less urban setting of the previous map for link, simply because it does create more speed with the respawns in gameplay, hard to put it to words, but it felt more fluid, more like a kids playground battle.

(you know when you were 4 to10 years old and played soldier in the schoolyard and bushes)

 

i also noticed that in the new clash and raid maps i got stuck a few more times mostly between rocks and trees or other objects, might be me but it feels like objects are placed closer to each other, it is not like you can not get "unstuck" but i just noticed it happening more to me in the cancon and mout maps.

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having Argo and Arma and enjoying both, argo is not Arma, and Arma is not Argo,

i never play online TVT with Arma, but with Argo it was tempting, something i did not feel ever slightly with arma, i if i play Arma online, i play coop.

having tried Argo for a preview of malden at first, i find the game it self fun, and like it for the quick play not to be fixed for a long game but having a quick shoot out and then back to the normal household :P

Arma has the tendency for me to draw me in (editor) and keeping me in for long times.

Argo is the quick fix game, it does remind me of CS (which ever itteration) and yet it does not feel plastic. (how should i put it ?)

i wonder if this got ported in arma and with all the arma mechanics, would it play the same ? (would be more single shot kills rather than spray and pray)

 

for me it does make sence to have both, because i do not view argo as something like arma or from arma, i see it as a new game, different, with similarities to arma and CS but not as Open as Arma. and not as linear and closed as CS.

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team hostage,

 

 i'd like to introduce team hostage.

one team has a hostage from the other team, caged in the red lined (aprox. 4x4 meter) from raid which deletes when the hostage takers are dead or a friendly enters them.

 

the respawn is only enabled once the hostage is rescued/redlines deleted, for both teams,

the hostage takers then get a marker of the extraction zone spawned at equal distance from the zone as the hostage area, but at a 90/120 degree angle

 

simply said it is 4 against five for the rescue team at first then it is 5v5 for the extraction, the hostage should pick up a weapon not get it instantly

 

maybe if possible, the hostage can communicate only with his own team when no opfor is present in the red lines, (like secret comms) he might talk with one around but then get a pass on being executed.

don't know if it is possible.

 

the hostage should be held with at least one good view point.

 

respawn for the hostage rescue should be also once at the rescue point, so that the second part of the round is 5v5

 

the extraction point should not be visible to eighter team untill the hostage is rescued. maybe randomized as not to have campers on forehand.

 

maybe points for the rescue team for no kills prior the rescue to promote stealth or no casualties.

 

 

what do you think, would this work or is it not worth the thought ?

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My feedback is not going to be as in-depth as initially hoped and thought, especially after a double-clicking mouse closed the browser window which got rid of an already rather lengthy comment, but eh, what can you do.

 

General

  • Argo could use an Idle kick (The most extreme case I experienced was a player blocking a lobby for a good 4 to 5 hours before they were kicked by Steam or BattlEye.)
  • Argo could use a Ping kick. The game offers US and EU servers for a reason, and I heard that community servers are starting to pop up as well. Any encounter with a ping difference of ~100+ is extremely random, usually the player with the lower ping loses. The higher the ping the worse it gets. Playing against SA players for example is very unenjoyable.
  • Argo could use a Vote kick. While I wouldn't describe deliberate team-killing as rampant, it definitely happens on a very frequent basis. AFK players are another frequently occurring problem. Waiting for the timer to run out is no fun for both teams.
  • Argo could use a Temporary Matchmaking/"Serverjoin" Cooldown. Match-leaving is ever-present, ruins the fun for any remaining players, and imbalances unbalanced teams even further.
  • Argo could use some sort of team balancing. Team-stacking is the rule rather than the exception, and constantly having to rebalancing the teams by yourself is getting really tiring (which becomes even more frustrating if it happens after the match started).
  • While an authentically crafted scenery can look absolutely beautiful and add a nice immersive touch to a scenario, these small scenes are not necessarily needed in a competitive game. Things like this, this, this, this, or this could either be completely removed (trash, luggage, for example, cars that don't offer a strategical position, smoke clouds (performance?)) or reduced (6 parked cars with two strategical placed cars or one strategical placed lorry, for example). However, this point is total guess on my part because I have no idea what kind of impact those compositions have. But especially with Argo and its very demanding current engine every single saved frame will help tremendously.

Raid
The location is alright, but the scenery is a little too heavy. Too many hiding spots, too many angles too cover. Overall it is too cluttered for my liking. I eventually got used to it, and do fairly well in the current location, but I believe that a simpler and cleaner layout would be beneficial to the game flow. Week's 2 Radio Station was pretty close to perfection. Week's 1 Le Port wasn't bad either, its only down-side was the size of the compound which was, in my opinion, a tiny little bit too small to work well.
Suggestion(s):

  • The air drop rewards needs balancing. Reducing the game round timer to 60 seconds on the defender side is very powerful, while revealing the exact location of the terminal on the attacker side is pretty much useless, when all terminal are located within a radius of 30 - 60 meters anyway, while simultaneously being extremely exposed to any defender during security of the air drop. Too many risks, too little reward.

Link
The location is alright, the only real problem I do have with it, is the layout of the Main node. It is not as bad as Sainte Marie, but it still is way too easy and way too fast to cover all sorts of angles as an attacker, which puts the defender (aka, the team or player that is trying to link the node) at a big disadvantage, especially due to the fact that the "linker" basically has to hug the node in order to trigger the link process.

Suggestion(s):

  • Creating an objective radius similar to Clash could be beneficial. Maybe half the size of the Clash flag circle, potentially only at the Main node.

Clash
The main problem I do have with the mode, is the mode itself. The map only highlights the design problems. For a conquest mode in a competitive infantry 5 player versus 5 player environment the distances between flags are too long, the map is too open [A "borderless" map is no good, a funneling of the player movement is not happening, the defenders have no sense of direction, etc.], the vegetation is too dense [A defender can, depending on the map (very noticeable in Sainte Marie, noticeable in Cancon) choose between hundreds of bushes, dozens of rocks and trees. For the attacker this means that it makes a callout system for huge parts of the map impossible, and creates an absolutely randomised, unpredictable and disorganised environment due to the sheer mass of (mostly illogical) hiding spots. For the defender it means that they will be overwhelmed by choices. This, exponentiated by the potential inexperience of the player can lead to bad decision making. Their chosen spot of defence might be too far away from the objective ("Unable to see the wood for the trees"), the player gets separated and isolated from the rest of the team, and very likely either gets killed without being able to get support by his team mates, is unable to support his team, or is unable to reach the objective in time for a defence attempt (I won way too many Clash matches by sitting down in the middle of the objective and spinning in circles while lowering and raising the flag, because I knew that the last enemy player alive was too far out to be any real danger.).]

Suggestion(s):

  • Funnel the players movement by restricting the map either by borders created with assets, or "Out-of-bounds" borders
  • Decrease the amount of foliage. Instead creating realistic forest and woodlands environments, use it to create tactical position and cover. (Or add 10 to 15 minutes to the round timer.)
  • Restrict the spawn on defence to the objective that is being attacked. In my many hours of playing Argo I have never seen an effective usage of flanking on the defender side. It usually ends in players defending the wrong position, looking into the wrong direction, being bipoted on the wrong hills.

Generally speaking most locations I have played so far could potentially work in an organised team versus team match. Unfortunately the nature of random public teams makes the overall gaming experience rather unenjoyable. While good players can adjust and adapt their game style to the circumstances, the average player is unable to do so and needs guidance (which unfortunately entails way more than explaining game modes).

 

I don't know the direction you guys want to go with Argo, especially in combination with the mentioned potential engine switch, but I personally, knowing what I know right now, feel that Argo would do better in the long term with custom created maps specially tailored to fit different game modes (not necessarily one map each for all game modes, but rather "larger" maps that could be used for all modes). While Malden is a superbly crafted map that will definitely be in no way inferior to existing Arma 3 maps, and highlights realistic and authentic world crafting as one of Bohemias core strengths, I am not sure if Malden is fit to deliver a consistent stream of balanced and fun locations (which admittedly would be a lot easier if we were just talking about Raid, and in some aspects Link).

 

Well, this turned out to be another one of my ramblings. With that all said, I am very curious to see what you guys have in petto. The latest Q&A video sounded very reassuring. You are definitely on the right way. Keep it up.

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I think its more complicated that its worth and probably not appealing to the market that Argo is trying to aim for with the "Its 4v5 but then it becomes 5v5".

 

It also seems to require a bit of honesty or a very large amount of coding to sort out the comms at certain points etc.

 

A straight up hostage rescue however, where one team has to escort an AI or protect a VIP to or from a location might be quite nice however.

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Just had an annoying glitch occur.

 

At spawn I was clipping with someone else, and we both started taking damage and died.

 

I don't know if it was related, but we were near the flag? So maybe if I was going to spawn on the flag, it pushed me into him?

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I think its more complicated that its worth and probably not appealing to the market that Argo is trying to aim for with the "Its 4v5 but then it becomes 5v5".

 

It also seems to require a bit of honesty or a very large amount of coding to sort out the comms at certain points etc.

 

A straight up hostage rescue however, where one team has to escort an AI or protect a VIP to or from a location might be quite nice however.

 

if the comms work then it is 5v5 from the start, not all war is about shooting

 

the simple solution for this problem would be disable voice if opfor is precent in red square

the other for execution option would be line of sight check to see lips moving, and i don't know if it is in the engine, a check if a character can hear, and allow a hint to be shown

execution would win the round but with little reward.

so if opfor wants to play save they have a guard with the hostage all time and thus minus one in the field.

 

it is choices to be made, where opfor can relieve the guard at the sacrifice of the hostage talking.

 

 

 

straight up rescue would be nice but i would like to see the team aspect being played,

and it would eliminate NPC character movements etc.

maybe i'm wrong on this game idea, because i am not really a big time TvT player.

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I have in the mind to do a long post about what I think project argo should be in my opinion. But I am too lazy to write it.

 

In the short version, I think Project argo is a really bad idea. Arma engine is not good for a "fast paced shooter". Project argo is not going to succes as it is, and is not going to give any profit. Most of the users are curious arma players that want to take a look at it or at malden terrain, for free of course.

 

Yesterday I got killed because me and other player spawned exactly in the same place and it was in the game mode that have no respawn, I had to wait for the whole round to end to start playing again, for a casual gamer that is a 100% probability of disconect and leave the game. That kind of arma engine bugs makes the future of project argo a completely fail.

 

I think project argo is more about a try to promote arma 3 in casual gamer scene with a free to play game than to try to make a profitable new IP. And in both cases in my opinion are failing.

 

If you want a "fast paced shooter" what I should do is just use a "fast paced engine" designed for that matter like unreal, id tech, or other engines designed for that matter. You can use the 3D models, sounds, textures, animations and most of the arma 3 stuff you are using for project argo anyway and have a game up and running in less than a year.

 

If you keep by this path you will be having a free to play game that don't fit anyone tastes by several years of development.

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Were you also too lazy the read what this prototype is about? Welcome to project Argo

 

tl;dr Project Argo is not their next game, it's a research project.

 

And what is the pourpose of this research? you smart guy.

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Today's update is gamebreaking.

 

I don't know if you tested this update, but it's basically complete shit.

Can't give you any feedback on the new locations, but the performance is totally destroyed.

 

I was able to play the game at max settings witout any performance issues, now its under 30 FPS at the lowest setting.

Hi,

Obviously we tested the game and we experienced no issues, haven't you updated some of your graphic drivers/windows 10 update or something similar?

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And what is the pourpose of this research? you smart guy.

 

To maintain our company identity and culture, while also considering the future and thinking about how we can best grow our existing and new projects, Bohemia Interactive is introducing a new iniatitive to drive innovation and pursue original ideas: Bohemia Incubator.

The primary goal is not to generate income, but rather to allow for a greater level of creative freedom, to try new things, and gather feedback on what works and what doesn't. The Incubator games may never even reach the alpha or beta stage in development, but we consider it a great way to validate concepts and help us make decisions moving forward. That brings us to our game: Project Argo.

 

...we defined a set of project goals that we believed would best serve our company's needs, now and in the long run:

Learn and practice multiplayer design

Script new scenarios, game modes, and game rules

Train map designers in multiplayer level design

Experiment with game design and game UI

Playtest scenarios and gather opinions from our users/community

Introduce (modest) improvements to the Arma 3 platform, and add new scripting commands

Introduce a 'metagame'

Kickstart the development of a persistent database that can be used/accessed in-game

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"While the intention was to eventually work in a new engine, our team of few started by prototyping a mod in the Real Virtuality engine"

 

I think this is a huge change of the goal...

 

 

"It enabled us to to concentrate solely on designing the gameplay."

 

Again they change the objectives...

 

 

..."we soon found out that specific terrain features and balanced game environments were vital for our scenarios to work properly. As there were no truly suitable locations on the existing Arma 3 terrains, we therefore decided to build our own terrain,"

 

So again, Its obvious that for a fast paced shooter you need shorter maps to make the action almost instantaneous. So in my opinion here it is another incongruity betwen the goals and the process. Using an engine that is mostly done with huge terrains in mind why are you trying to do a shooter with it?

 

 

Although Project Argo was initially created as a mod for Arma 3, we soon realized that it would be more practical to release it as a standalone game.

 

I suppose that this is only to ovoid the complaints about making arma 3 more casual. Ok they have released it as a standalone game. and this is my question... What's the point in project argo? it is not going to satisfy arma players and is not going to bring new casual players to it ...

 

 

In terms of our near-future plans, we aim to release a new version of Project Argo, with a different location and loadout, roughly every other week. We'll also keep you up-to-date with development progress in future blog posts.

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