Rate Apex Protocol! *****SPOILERS WARNING*****

[drebin052 324]

Now that Apex is finally out, what's everyone's opinion on the AP campaign (assuming you've finished it)?

 

Story:

The ending in particular has the usual cryptic message from Mr. Miller; "It's in safe hands"?

 

Also noticed a few throwbacks to Arma-related stuff in the AAN news ticker bar like a "Senator Robert Hammer" and "Railgun cannon being an unmitigated disaster" (wink wink  :D). The news bar also mentions the UN authorising a peacekeeping mission in the South China Sea as tensions between U.S. and Chinese carrier battlegroups intensify over the land reclamation in the area; could this possibly be a hint at a future DLC continuing the storyline in a South East Asian island rather than the South Pacific?

 

Adding onto that, VRANA Corp. really are as shady as they were portrayed in the PMC campaign, given that they supplied the equipment used by Viper Team (the drone terminals and SIGINT equipment) and also seem to be responsible for helping to construct the Eastwind device as well.

Gameplay:

The first three missions were pretty bland and honestly felt tacked on while the other four were much better and felt more in line with The East Wind (though not exactly for obvious reasons). The lack of AI teammates really makes it a gruelling gauntlet when playing solo on several missions, particularly in End Game when you have to survive against two (!) waves of Vipers.

 

It's a shame really, since respawning wouldn't be needed in SP if you had AI helping you out along with the new revive system instead of having to one man army everything. Haven't played it co-op, so I won't comment on whether it's better or not in that aspect but even so I don't think it'd be too different from solo.

 

As a result I'm giving a 5/10 for AP simply due to the gameplay being the biggest letdown but the story salvages it a little bit. Here's hoping the next campaign (if we ever do get one) won't be as rushed.

Edited July 12, 2016 by R0adki11
added spolier tags

[R0adki11 3949]

Added the spolier tags to your post, please don't remove them

[mistyronin 1181]

I personally don't see any logic in the new campaign in almost any of its facets. Maybe it's because I'm old, but to me it feels like a lot of good will that ended in a failed experiment.

The plot it's ok and it's an interesting closure of the Eastwind story.

In addition the presentation it's pretty good. I enjoyed the idea of seeing the map zones highlighted.

Again I feel like the ideas behind the mission design were ok, and could have worked nicely with a proper execution.

But the game-play is simply not acceptable for a game that has the Arma tag anywhere.

You can hardly compare the AP "coop" campaign with any quality coop FPS campaign. It's like they were trying to copy the worse of other commercial FPS campaigns like Call of Duty or Battlefield, but missing most of its features. Hence the final result is like a Doom 2 game-play with weird respawn points.

The hordes of brainless enemies are something I would expect in a zombie survival game, but not in a tactical fps. The number is way too high for a 4-men team.

Oddly enough the AP campaign doesn't even take advantage of half the new assets, so you can't even view it as a showcase of the new content.

The saddest thing, is that knowing the capabilities of some of the BI mission-makers like Zipper5, this result is totally incomprehensible. Specially after having read the devs explanations on why they choose this path. It's just makes no sense to try to attract the kind of player that is just the opposite of what most of the game represents. It's like if Apple representatives were to say that they are the top tier of the open source and crappy design, it simply makes no sense.

Disappointing.

PS: I won't even talk about the solo-mode, as IMHO that's simply trash, that won't deserve a word in it's nowadays status. The best they could do is to scrap it or deeply revamp it.

[general_motors 21]

I wonder why Solo mode is so crude and raw. It seems the devs decided kind of to force people play it in co-op, but come on man, there are a lot of people who prefer SP, and ArmA is known for being SP-friendly. If that's the case why is this "solo" in the game at all? Still hoping that in the foreseeable future solo mode will be improved, because solo gameplay in this state as it is now in this campaign is ridiculously dull. 

[scimitar 221]

I'm not interested in playing the campaign in co-op and I quit playing it in SP mode after I got to the seconnd objective of the first mission. The lack of AI teammates and a proper save mode really put me off. If BI doesn't change it, then I hope that someone will release a mod to add those features to SP. Otherwise, I have no interest in playing the new campaign.

[negah 26]

Just finished a solo playthrough and I totally agree with the above points. 

 

Please rework the campaign, add AI team members and remove respawns for solo play.

 

As much as I liked the original ArmA 3 campaign, this one felt really disappointing.

[dont_have_name 4]

I'll keep this spoiler free since I don't actually know what the spoiler tag is.

I'd rate 4/7 of the missions as good, with Keystone and End Game being bland and Extraction being flat out awful. Me and my two buddies I played it with were pretty disappointing by length, we kind of all agreed APEX would have been much more reasonable at $25.

We also were pretty disappointed at how little NATO was used. We got to see some NATO guys standing around a V44 and that was about it... Even on the last mission's video intro the NATO guy says "You'll have full NATO support at your disposal" but there's not a single friendly NATO in the whole thing, it's still just Raider 2 VS the world... It was a pretty disappointing finale.

And finally, single player. There was no reason to not have bots. I read that they were left out because BI thought they were too hard for the average user to control, but that's an awful excuse. An excuse that punishes players like me who DO know how bots work, and would love to be able to set up coordinated attacks with them in this campaign. Seriously, I think every player who has NO clue how bots work would still rather have bots than not, even if all they're capable of making the bots do is follow them around.

Overall, the campaign just kind of feels half baked. There were just some things missing, especially on that last mission which was hyping itself up so much.

[djotacon 190]

Die hard  Arma 3 player comment:

 

This APEX coop campaing is very easy, not realistic and is horrible because reasons..

 

Newbie Arma 3 player comment:

 

I like it, I can learn the basics of the coop gameplay and is very fun...

 

Casual player comment:

 

I think is very good because I have multiple respawn to re-think my strategies if I die.

 

Hardcore player and mod/mission developer of Arma 3 ( me ):

 

Excellent ideas using lateral way thinking to achive JIP with unknow players.

[neofit 65]

What Apex campaign are you talking about? There is no SP campaign that I can see. Even as coop this PoS cannot be called a campaign.

 

Let's see. I start the mission. I am thrown into some woods. While I look at my surroundings, check the inventory and so on, they say something and run away. OK. I check the map and apparently I need to find Keystone. Who TF if Keystone and why do I need to find him/her/it? Who am I? Looks like I'm not even a soldier, just another one of those Blackwater murderer types that BIS loves so much? Story-wise = 0/100.

 

Since it's still a coop game, even when you are in SP, you cannot remove that grass that only prevents you from seeing, never the AI.

 

Oh, I can't save. Thank you players for not giving them enough grief after they ruined the last East Wind scenario for us. Oh, and after I die, in my freaking SP game, I have to wait 30 seconds to respawn? Seriously? And why don't you give us infinite ammo right away? Oh, and I can't even pause? In a SP game?

 

And the best one: if I quit my SP game I need to start the mission all over. Seriously? On a PC? So if I can't play 2+ hours straight in my SP game I will never be able to finish a single mission?

 

Sorry, this is unplayable for me. Weighing my words very carefully, I'd says this campaign is a load of crap put together by some lazy retard with no clue. Final rating, as per the thread title: 0/100.

Edited July 14, 2016 by R0adki11
removed foul and unnecessary language

[lexx 1390]

Oh, I can't save. Thank you players for not giving them enough grief after they ruined the last East Wind scenario for us.

If you mean "Game Over" - it is fully intendet to be this way. The whole scenario is, like the name suggests, "Game Over". There is nothing to cry about and it is in no way connected to not being able to save in Apex.

 

 

PS: If you need 2+ hours to finish one of the Apex scenarios, then lel. What are you doing all the time? Trying to catch non existing birds?

 

PPS: Grass does prevent the AI from seeing you.

[djotacon 190]

What Apex campaign are you talking about? There is no SP campaign that I can see. Even as coop this PoS cannot be called a campaign.

 

 

Apex has a coop campaing based in related scenarios, not all the entire games campaings are SP ( do you know "Borderlands"?? ).

 

"And the best one: if I quit my SP game I need to start the mission all over. Seriously? On a PC? So if I can't play 2+ hours straight in my SP game I will never be able to finish a single mission?"

 

I think you dont know nothing about Arma 3 - even less about gaming in general - difficulty settings.

Edited July 14, 2016 by R0adki11
removed flame-baiting comment

[angel24marin 34]

What Apex campaign are you talking about? There is no SP campaign that I can see. Even as coop this PoS cannot be called a campaign.

Let's see. I start the mission. I am thrown into some woods. While I look at my surroundings, check the inventory and so on, they say something and run away. OK. I check the map and apparently I need to find Keystone. Who TF if Keystone and why do I need to find him/her/it? Who am I? Looks like I'm not even a soldier, just another one of those Blackwater murderer types that BIS loves so much? Story-wise = 0/100.

You cant rate the history if you don't play the whole camping...

The first mission is like a flashback. The second mission is 72h before keystone extraction. And the following missions discover you who is keystone. At the middle of the campaign, you re catcht the first mission where you left it and continue the history.

[mistyronin 1181]

You cant rate the history if you don't play the whole camping...

The first mission is like a flashback. The second mission is 72h before keystone extraction. And the following missions discover you who is keystone. At the middle of the campaign, you re catcht the first mission where you left it and continue the history.

It's an in media res, tho I agree it's may not have been the best way to use that literary resource. Can be quite confusing in a coop, specially if it was intended for newcomers.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_medias_res

[djotacon 190]

The coop mission are created with is briefing and works as indepedent gameplay unit, I dont see any problem with newcomers to play a coop mission in a non linear way if they have a proper briefing.

[Rydygier 1317]

Played, of course, solo, as I like. First mission, first attempt - dead (oh, well, it's Arma, normal for me). Damn, it's MP, thus unable to save and load (even to pause and go pee). Respawn? No, thanks, not enjoying. Restart then. Second attempt - dead (annoyed slightly). Third attempt - em... no thanks, I'm playing for fun not to annoy myself, and even if I eventually wade through at umpteenth iteration this one, there are next missions with same problem. Just no. So can't rate, didn't finished, not sure, if I try again, seems pointless. 

 

I start the mission. I am thrown into some woods. While I look at my surroundings, check the inventory and so on, they say something and run away.

 

 

Same impression. :) I don't mind, if not much is known at the beginning, but if mission maker assumes, I'm from the start familiar with where I am, who I am, what I have, where I need to go etc. giving me no time to settle down and calmly figure these things out, then I'm lost and loosing, what is said (I need to focus to understand spoken English) to whom, what is happening around and, as the result, loosing chance to be immersed. Pre-mission briefing is just not enough, especially with countdown running. 

[Foxone 1044]

Story line was very nice, but WAY to short.

 

But one thing pissed me off. We get an new expension with new vehicles, then where the HELL WHERE THEY in the new campaign, i believe there was 1 mission where we saw some new NATO stuff, and that was just the Blackfish for extraction, never seen no Gunship support (as seen in several video's from BI), no boats driving towards a beach like in their nice all scripted video's.

I found the usage of new assets very poor and very disappointing.

 

EDIT: Also a very poor and disappointing usage of Tanoa, almost all missions happend on 1 island, with 2 happening on the main island and that was it.

[neofit 65]

Apex has a coop campaing based in related scenarios, not all the entire games campaings are SP ( do you know "Borderlands"?? ).

 

"And the best one: if I quit my SP game I need to start the mission all over. Seriously? On a PC? So if I can't play 2+ hours straight in my SP game I will never be able to finish a single mission?"

 

I think you dont know nothing about Arma 3 - even less about gaming in general - difficulty settings.

So you compare Arma to Borderlands, and I am the one who "know(s) nothing about Arma 3 - even less about gaming in general". Nice one. You sir are truly a genius.

 

BTW, einstein, Borderlands is not a series of "related scenarios". Borderlands 1 and 2 had one huge campaign from beginning to the end. And very SP too. Granted they didn't have a proper save-anywhere feature, with them made for a lowly console, to force repetition to lengthen perceived game time, and because that's just simpler to code, yet one could pause and and use checkpoints so as not to restart the whole mission. You may want to try this "gaming" thing one day so as not to talk about things you know nothing about.

 

But you are right, I just re-read the Steam store page for Apex as well as the BIS page, and "Apex has a coop campaing". I can't see anymore any reference to the campaign being optionally SP, though I am pretty sure I read that somewhere. The reference to "1-4 player coop" can also mean "1-player alone in an online environment", and indeed it does. Had I know this I would have waited for a sale, or for people with a clue to release properly tested content for Apex.

[neofit 65]

So can't rate, didn't finished, not sure, if I try again, seems pointless. 

Of course you can rate. You don't have to finish a plate of rotten food in order to rate it pretty low on the "enjoyable food" scale.

[Mynock 244]

As someone who sucks at playing this game and gets killed about every 10 feet, I liked the respawn system vs me piling up user saves to the point of overwriting them by the time I get to the second objective. Realistic? No probably not, but it's a game after all. There's always the option to start the mission over if you want mega realism and no respawn.

Pros and cons to no AI teammates. No one is blabbering on the radio "Rifleman 300 meters bearing 020" non stop. But lone wolf does feel slightly strange in a game that's mostly about squad based tactics. I don't like online play much, so I haven't tried it co-op (doubt anyone would want me in their squad, they'd spend more time reviving me or waiting for me to respawn than actually playing lol).

Some of the missions weren't the most exciting, but that's fine, not everything has to be an Arma 3 Apex Directed by Michael Bay moment. They're still fun even if they're slower paced or the objectives don't seem that bad ass. I especially liked...

the mission where Viper first sort of ambushes you in that little village was neat. Basically crapped myself when I was taking fire but couldn't see them on the thermals but then switched to NV and saw IR lasers tracking me from the jungle. That was a cool moment I think, highlight of the campaign for me.

I plan to play through it again at some point. I'd especially like to take a look at how the campaign is set up from an editing standpoint, so hopefully the files will be accessible soon.

From a not-super-hardcore-salute-my-virtual-commander-every-5-seconds-milsim-or-nothing person, I think it was pretty good.

[Karl Perkins 5]

0 / 10 for gameplay, 10 / 10 for everything else.

[mistyronin 1181]

Some of the missions weren't the most exciting, but that's fine, not everything has to be an Arma 3 Apex Directed by Michael Bay moment. They're still fun even if they're slower paced or the objectives don't seem that bad ass. I especially liked...

the mission where Viper first sort of ambushes you in that little village was neat. Basically crapped myself when I was taking fire but couldn't see them on the thermals but then switched to NV and saw IR lasers tracking me from the jungle. That was a cool moment I think, highlight of the campaign for me.

I plan to play through it again at some point. I'd especially like to take a look at how the campaign is set up from an editing standpoint, so hopefully the files will be accessible soon.

In that part I smell some editing cheating... The enemies could shoot you even if they couldn't see you, as long as you were outside. I dare to say, there's a trigger that activates a "player setDamage 1" if you stay still for a while outside.

[OMAC 254]

the mission where Viper first sort of ambushes you in that little village was neat. Basically crapped myself when I was taking fire but couldn't see them on the thermals but then switched to NV and saw IR lasers tracking me from the jungle. That was a cool moment I think, highlight of the campaign for me.

 

I found this very awesome as well.  :-) 

 

I haven't finished the "campaign" yet, but this was the highlight so far for me.

[Mynock 244]

In that part I smell some editing cheating... The enemies could shoot you even if they couldn't see you, as long as you were outside. I dare to say, there's a trigger that activates a "player setDamage 1" if you stay still for a while outside.

I was outside the entire time during that sequence. I was taking cover behind various obstacles in the village and although I was taking some fire, it was clear they didn't know exactly where I was because...

the IR lasers would track me until I got behind something, they would fire at it a few times to suppress me, then start moving their aim around like they were looking for me. I died the first time through the sequence because I foolishly stayed in thermal mode not realizing they had the thermal canceling suits. Once I respawned and had an "ah ha" moment and swapped to NVG's, I didn't get hit again. Suppressed for sure, but they never actually connected a shot with my body as I jumped from cover to cover in the village outside to try and get to a spot where I could aim at the source of the IR lasers.

It also took me a solid 10 minutes to take them all out by blind firing into the jungle where the sources of the lasers were, so I doubt there was a timer that kills you by a trigger or something because it took me a while to kill them and I wasn't magically killed.

[mistyronin 1181]

I was outside the entire time during that sequence. I was taking cover behind various obstacles in the village and although I was taking some fire, it was clear they didn't know exactly where I was because...

I was talking about that suspected trigger because...

The third time I played the mission, I did with a special mod that allows to use the debug mode, hence I set myself with setcaptive true and allow damage false... and even tho, I was "killed" if I stayed in the same area for a while, or I got "shot" next to me even if I teleported myself to another area.

I did it to figure out how the lasers and IA worked. The problem is that until they turn it into a PBO I can't be sure 100%.

[Mynock 244]

Well, obviously you know a lot more than everyone else then. I can only speak about my experience. Sounds like you've uncovered a conspiracy.

And to help you with your reason for busting into the campaign:

setBehaviour

enableIRLasers

Set them to combat then force the lasers on. I'm guessing that's how BI did it, perhaps with some slightly scripted movements to the AI would advance in a particular way.