Disappointed with lack of Interactability on Tanoa

[djotacon 190]

Entire city enterable  buildings = FPS DRAMA

Non entire city enterable buildings = BUILDINGS DRAMA

Update lighting 1.60 = MOD DRAMA

New Sound engine criticism  =  DRAMA

 

Welcome to the Arma 3 soap opera!

[Rich_R 1087]

Agree with @roberthammer and @vonquest......aside from the complaints that are exaggerated, many in here going on and on about the enterable buildings would be the first to complain in a similar fashion when the FPS dropped into single digits , arguing with anyone who dared to disagree.

This is the best map they've produced so far. Life is about compromises, and in this case of the rich environment the balance of enterable building was one of them. If this is the solution BI has chosen for gameplay, so be it.

Not everyone goes from building to building in a mission. Not every mission is about clearing an entire section of buildings. If your group does this a lot, guess what, your group can build thee assets, combine them with what will become available and build your own 12 FPS heaven.

I've also read about the occlusion method insinuating BI are just getting lazy with Tonoa. Again, build your assets, make your terrain and you show BI how it should be done.

We survived Arma 1 and most of Arma 2 without enterable buildings and I'm sure life will go on after Tonao, if not in a sea of pouting.

[froggyluv 2135]

many in here going on and on about the enterable buildings would be the first to complain in a similar fashion when the FPS dropped into single digits , arguing with anyone who dared to disagree.

 

 

 People have the right to voice their displeasure but in any case your referring to me -in my 6500 posts Ive not once, ever, made a post complaining on perfomance. Reason? I prefer new functionality and features for my sandbox over all else knowing that they will iron out performance in the long haul -that I do always have faith in.

 

 People coming in here pandering how this thread is just a bunch of mindless babies crying without gratitude are guilty of the very thing they accuse - BI made a priority decision, this thread is voicing dissent, nothing more. If you read the entirety of my post you would see that I as well give them and this map the highest props, so stop acting like this is mindless ranting.

[Rich_R 1087]

Actually no, was not referring to you nor do I remember reading a post from you on this matter. Looking back I see some of your pars know you've brought up the point, but the post wasn't typed with wringing hands against anyone but the rhetoric in general. IfI direct anything at anyone I tend to let them know with @ sign.

Lesson 1. You aren't the center of the universe

Lesson 2. It's this 'me' thing which appears to change feedback to arguing on this thread. This map isn't meant to be perfect for every individual player or group. The sooner gamers realize this the less they and their groups will be disaapointed in PC games and well, life in general.

[Jackal326 1179]

This is the best map they've produced so far.

Period. End of discussion.

[froggyluv 2135]

 Well then you failed to convey you read the thread in its entirety as some posts are nuanced in thought both praising and pointing out areas of direction they dont agree with. You seem to like life lessons, opinions can have more than one aspect.

 

 All opinions in this forum are presented from the "me" as it would be strange to present from the "you".

 

 Life lesson 2: Learn to live with people of varying opinions. Especially in online computer gaming sites.

[Rich_R 1087]

@froggy feel free to insult rather than discussing the overall topic. I obviously disagree with the opinion that there should be more enterable buildings at the cost of performance.

my comment was to highlight the obvious, to me at least, overall view. I didn't insult anyone nor target anyone with my comment except for those I agree with. And this exchange is one of the reasons I don't engage as much on their forums. I love discussions but also have standards of how they are carried out.

[teabagginpeople 398]

@froggy feel free to insult rather than discussing the overall topic.

Ok Ok what? Insult. Show me the insult?

[Jackal326 1179]

 Well then you failed to convey you read the thread in its entirety as some posts are nuanced in thought both praising and pointing out areas of direction they dont agree with. You seem to like life lessons, opinions can have more than one aspect.

 

 All opinions in this forum are presented from the "me" as it would be strange to present from the "you".

 

 Life lesson 2: Learn to live with people of varying opinions. Especially in online computer gaming sites.

On the contrary, I have read the entire thread. What a lot of people (including the OP) are forgetting is that Tanoa has been staged on DevBranch to garner feedback - its still a work in progress. Whilst the "issue" of the enter-able vs. non-enter-able buildings is not one I envisage being resolved as its an issue that can't be resolved to the satisfaction of everyone; You either make all buildings enter-able and tank performance drastically or keep it as is and have people complain - the very definition of a no-win situation. The other issues raised (wonky destruction effects etc) I'm sure will be addressed in due course.

 

Taking a broader look at it though as far as immersion, terrain variation (areas of the jungles feel different from one another where-as all forests on Chernarus for example feel the same) and overall atmosphere Tanoa is by far the most "all round" terrain that BI have produced. The progression they've made can be traced back from ArmA1's Sahrani. Many people were disappointed when ArmA1 only launched with 2 (Sahrania and another smaller island) islands compared to OFP's 4 (Everon, Malden, Kolgujev and Desert island). However, the detail they included could be seen immediately when compared with its predecessors. The same level of increased detail translated to ArmA2 with Chernarus (and eventually Takistan with the Operation Arrowhead expansion).

Altis and Stratis were again a much greater leap in overall detailing in both model detail (every building enterable - yes, that old chestnut!) and texture detail (though middle-distance terrain textures were and still remain an issue for many). Some will say Tanoa is a step back, but I (and others, its not just a "me" situation) still consider Tanoa to be the best map BI have produced so far. The building "issue" is an performance offset for the huge detail they've added to the jungle environments, not to mention the marshes/swamps and such.

 

You're right, it is just an opinion and people are entitled to think differently to me. If they want to lambaste and crucify BI for making a compromise to attempt to wring out as much performance as they can on a 15 year-old engine, and bemoan the fact you cant physically enter every single building on the island go right ahead. It just shows how spoilt you've been by the fact you can do that on the stock ArmA3 maps which in my opinion (again!) run like shit at times.

[Rich_R 1087]

@teabagginpeople You're right, insult was strong word. I apologize.

 

I guess I felt his response was abrasive..However, reading his responses to a lot of people on here, its ironic @froggy's life lesson is 'Learn to live with people of varying opinions. Especially in online computer gaming sites.'

[froggyluv 2135]

 @Jackal -yes, and im one of the people who also said this is the best map ever ;)

 

 One can believe that and still disagree with certain trajectories. For instance, I took a lot of flack when I brought up the (at that time) new trajectory introduced in the unoffical campaign that Moricky made in which AI teammates were made invincible to protect the storyline. I was called hystrionic when I stated this is a slippery slope for those that enjoy the golden age of OFP storytelling in which everyone can potentially die -a thrilling prospect at that time. Then came Arma 3 in which yet again, squaddies were made invincible as I had predicted. Again I made a very vocal displeasure and im glad I did, as now we have a much more advanced handledamge system which still protects important NPC's without venturing into the realm of the ridculousness. Im in no way taking credit for the added scripting but obviously its worth voicing your opinion on such matters and hopefully able to garner some steam.

 

 Trajectory. If you read my post, it is not just simply the scaling down of enterable buildings, it is that nothing is ever offered but in its stead for the CQB minded gamer. That would not effect performance in any negligble way and would appease our niche and show they care about a very real, very neglelcted aspect of real modern day warfare. Why not cancel the undersea fighting and put that same AI team back to interior fighting. Is adding nodes to windows and doors that much too ask? maybe so, but here are the forums and here is where ill voice my mind on such matters.

 

@Mustang: Not really tho you telling me Im not the center of the universe was kinda snarky so your gonna get my short end. And if you've really read my post history, its 90% positive for the game since Ive been here. I came here to address us being called "whiners"  and then dealing with the "Yo its the best fucking map yo" ape mindset. 

 

Ive said my piece.

[Jackal326 1179]

*snip*

Fair enough. I too hope that there may still be a possibility of the buildings becoming enter-able further down the line (as per my other reply), though sadly I feel it falls into the category of "very low priority", which I can understand.

[teabagginpeople 398]

You said yourself jackle it has been staged on development branch to get feedback.

Froggys "feedback" was pretty straight forward. Didn't just spew gibberish like hate it rawr fix it or I quit arma. Gimme my money back. He expressed his opinion as constructive as can be.

Bis took the decision to use the less enterable buildings perhaps for ;) fps boost.

Getting rid of alot of that jungle or making it mostly non enterable just nice to look at. will also get you an fps boost. Would I want that? probably not. Would I be winey complainy for being disappointed? Perhaps

Maybe time/Money/ man power for the variety of building designs was a factor . Altis had few. was from a base game, had more time in production bigger projected income.

Maybe froggy and some feel the decision to have less buildings open "not taken lightly by bis". was maybe not the right one from a alot of fans gameplay point of view. And that is fair enough disagreement to have. Hence the discussions.

[FoxFort 341]

Agree with @roberthammer and @vonquest......aside from the complaints that are exaggerated, many in here going on and on about the enterable buildings would be the first to complain in a similar fashion when the FPS dropped into single digits , arguing with anyone who dared to disagree.

This is the best map they've produced so far. Life is about compromises, and in this case of the rich environment the balance of enterable building was one of them. If this is the solution BI has chosen for gameplay, so be it.

Not everyone goes from building to building in a mission. Not every mission is about clearing an entire section of buildings. If your group does this a lot, guess what, your group can build thee assets, combine them with what will become available and build your own 12 FPS heaven.

I've also read about the occlusion method insinuating BI are just getting lazy with Tonoa. Again, build your assets, make your terrain and you show BI how it should be done.

We survived Arma 1 and most of Arma 2 without enterable buildings and I'm sure life will go on after Tonao, if not in a sea of pouting.

With Real Virtuality 4 engine limitations, devs must compromise with content in order to give us a stable FPS.  But since we are now half-way through 2016, isn't it time to stop making the same compromises from 2006's Armed Assault. For me A3 in every aspect is better compared to previous ArmAs, but it's still falling behind to now, basic featuers, of other games/engines. 

You can make ArmA type of game with Unreal Engine, REDengine 3, Dunia Engine 2, CryEngine, Frostbite and so on. 

I just want to say to stop "milking the old cow(engine)". The Real Virtuality is a very good engine, hats down, but it earned it's right to be retired. The amount of work the devs are putting in RV is probably tremendous and yet it yields average results for todays gaming standards. I mean a very welcomed feature, the "Screen Space Reflections on water" is now kinda standard and old package in 2016 and it shoudn't be a new thing. I just hope for the next ArmA, devs will move away from VR. Too much usage of their talents and time for average results. BIS devs can do much more, but VR is limiting them and there for us.

EDIT: As for saying that buying a new engine (much more easier than making a new one from scratch), There are 2,377,021 owners of just ArmA 3, so yeah, bis ain't without money.

[dmarkwick 261]

Sweet delicious tears? Yummy :D

 

My all-time favourite map is Chenarus even to this day. It had mostly non-enterable buildings. If it had fully enterable buildings it would be a perfect map IMO. But hey-ho I also like trees and Chenarus certainly delivered on that :) I've had my best gaming moments in Chenarus so I'm not about to say enterable buildings is a must-have.

 

Then along comes Altis with almost every building enterable,and subsequentally along come the complaints that:

performance is low in towns and

no furniture :/

 

My only complaint was not enough trees ;)

 

I see the lack of furniture as almost completely irrelevant. Why do players wish to have more reasons to get stuck in buildings trying to wrangle their avatars around? I already find it annoying to get stuck just trying to walk though doors. To then moan about furniture would be just silly and not relevant to a combat game IMO. And please don't mention "immersion" (the most abused excuse ever IMO) for me my immersion is broke when I can't simply move across a space.

 

Tanoa looks to me to have huge potential. It probably won't replace Chenarus for me as best-ever map, but it has other things going for it certainly.

 

All IMHO natch.

[froggyluv 2135]

 Also loved the tall tree forests of Chernarus and the way the AI acted using the trees as cover it was in a sense, a very good CQB experience. I am guilty of having not played at all yet in the jungle of Tanoa and suspect again it will present a pretty good to possibly great cqb experience due to the viewblock (with a lil AI tweaking) so im totally not dissing this map.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

 Also loved the tall tree forests of Chernarus and the way the AI acted using the trees as cover it was in a sense, a very good CQB experience. I am guilty of having not played at all yet in the jungle of Tanoa and suspect again it will present a pretty good to possibly great cqb experience due to the viewblock (with a lil AI tweaking) so im totally not dissing this map.

 

In my opinion, major problem with Chernarus forests, and most forests so far until Tanoa, is that they lack some kind of clutter besides grass. Things like rocks, roots, etc. Tanoa forests look so detailed, they make majority of forests in Arma so far feel like a grassy plain from which a bunch of wooden poles grew out of.

[daveallen10 35]

Lots of good here. I think Foxfort's comment really hits the issue. The devs are working with old technology (and probably not enough staff) in order to provide content and features that are promoted as "new" but is actually quite dated for 2016.

For instance look at the list of "improvements" for Apex on the website. Tasks overhaul, campaign unification, quick play, weapon switching, decent water reflections... these are all welcome improvements, but to be honest they should have been in the base game back in 2013. I'm glad to see improvements, but they have to make so many compromises because of old technology that it almost doesn't make up for it.

[snakeplissken 96]

I believe that if there were two or three models of houses and one or two building (with one or two floors editable), would please the majority.

 

Many know that having 100% of editable housing, have low fps, but with a few small houses editable and dinimuindo islands in the sea that has nothing in them, keep the same fps as has now.

But I'm not asking that this be done before the release, but may come with an update later on.

[Vigil Vindex 64]

As much as I am frustrated with the performance issues of Arma 3, I accept that we need to work with what we have. I have yet to find a game that does what Arma does, which is probably quite telling despite the numerous popular engines that are out. If the cost of having such a sexy looking forest environment is less buildings with functional interiors so be it. I often forget that BIS is an independent studio and publisher, and like all companies have to work within budget and time constraints where shrewd decisions have to be made and costed to determine what is feasible or not. I do hope that Arma 4 will be targeted at resolving the problems of AI, MP, and incorporate the new work being done on the Enfusion Engine etc so that we can have the "magic bullet"(s) that solve performance issues that limit options for adding more complicated environments and AI etc. If continuing to purchase DLC for Arma 3 will support this I will be happy to do so while enjoying the splendid content we do get. We can always mod in buildings ourselves if need be, all the work going into making the new server browser and steam workshop integration is going to make it easier for the mod scene. Also the task overhaul is part of what I hope is a series of overhauls to game systems that are common to mission making requirements such a respawn, revive, AI spawning and patrols etc, again making it easier for mission makers to have a working base line instead of relying on third party scripted solutions that can lead to poor performance too.

[KPABATOK 14]

nope:

https://twitter.com/Arma3official/status/740550641727242240

 

into a trash it goes...

[chortles 263]

EDIT: As for saying that buying a new engine (much more easier than making a new one from scratch), There are 2,377,021 owners of just ArmA 3, so yeah, bis ain't without money.

Bohemia isn't above using licensed engines (i.e. Unity) but from what I understand having full rights to an engine by building it in-house has been a factor too.

[jw custom 56]

My all-time favourite map is Chenarus even to this day. It had mostly non-enterable buildings. If it had fully enterable buildings it would be a perfect map IMO. But hey-ho I also like trees and Chenarus certainly delivered on that :) I've had my best gaming moments in Chenarus so I'm not about to say enterable buildings is a must-have.

 

Then along comes Altis with almost every building enterable,and subsequentally along come the complaints that:

performance is low in towns and

no furniture :/

 

My only complaint was not enough trees ;)

 

I see the lack of furniture as almost completely irrelevant. Why do players wish to have more reasons to get stuck in buildings trying to wrangle their avatars around? I already find it annoying to get stuck just trying to walk though doors. To then moan about furniture would be just silly and not relevant to a combat game IMO. And please don't mention "immersion" (the most abused excuse ever IMO) for me my immersion is broke when I can't simply move across a space.

 

Tanoa looks to me to have huge potential. It probably won't replace Chenarus for me as best-ever map, but it has other things going for it certainly.

 

I agree 100%

 

Tanoa is awesome and beautiful and i love it, but Chernarus is a masterpiece B)

[calin_banc 19]

Bohemia isn't above using licensed engines (i.e. Unity) but from what I understand having full rights to an engine by building it in-house has been a factor too.

 

Maybe the environment has changed for the past few years? I mean just look at what SC is doing with Cry Engine.

[oldbear 390]

In order to have a better overview if the situation, have a look at the  "Report in : Joris-Jan van 't Land"
 

"We're also developing using an ageing engine and tool-set. Real Virtuality still does certain things better than the newest versions of popular alternatives out there, but we're not oblivious to its short-comings (which is why a new Enfusion engine is in development)."

Source :  https://arma3.com/news/report-in-joris-jan-van-t-land-project#.V1cmVL5SFl3