Tanoa discussion (Dev-Branch)

[road runner 4344]

If someone can't afford a onetime purchase of 35 bucks they probably got other stuff to worry about than playing video games.

 

Cheers

And yet they can afford a PC with the minimum specs in which to run Tanoa?  and moan about all the things that's wrong with it. :D ;)

[road runner 4344]

hehehe... your post reminds me of a guy on the Visual Upgrade thread who didn't see a reason to fix the broken night lighting because "everybody uses NVGs anyway".

The game is supposed to be set in the Future, pretty much SOP's would be for everyone in BLUFOR to be equipped with Gen3 NVG and TI. 

have a look at all the default characters in BLUFOR, every single one of them is equipped with NVG's...... I wonder why that is? Oh yeah, cause you can't generally see shit at night.. ;)

 

[St. Jimmy 272]

I wonder why that is? Oh yeah, cause you can't generally see shit at night.. ;)

Night isn't bright or dark all the time. The brightness changes depending on time, moon brightness and position and overcast. The darkest times are just after the sun set and just before the sun rise.

 

Then it also depends on map config. Saying "nights are too dark" doesn't really tell anything, other than it maybe is at some point for some people. You need to give map, date, time and overcast.

 

Too bad that I can't video record that because my recordings are way too dark compared to what it really looks like.

[road runner 4344]

The irony in a lot of these "concerns" is that some people had no issues when it cam to running from one end of Stratis to the other with a backpack full of extra ammo, as if it was made of Helium, and being able to vault fences etc , but the ambient occluders looked shit.

It all comes back to this issue of personal preference, I wouldn't dream of creating a modern SOF unit that didn't have some form of Night vision goggles, it wouldn't make sense, there was a reason back in my days of serving why the main attacks were always done at first light, or "dawn attacks" it meant you had enough light to see what the fuck you were doing, what was in front of you, and most importantly you could see the other guys in your fire team. 

The move to the Lie Up point was done in darkness, but no matter how dark it was, your eyes always adjusted, something no game out there actually incorporates due to game engine liitations, maybe one day the nights will be more "truer to life". Any night tabs was done by markers and waypoint, the old fashioned way when there was no such thing as a GPS, the amount of guys "piling in" at night time was always a lot more than the day time, even older gen 1 NVG's lacked depth perception, and I still fell into a hole on many an occasion.

The guys who play their missions and scenarios at night without NVG's I commend, without visible lasers, or IR strobes that's a challenge in itself, but it's that individuals choice, it's like having a garage full of performance cars, and you opt for the horse and cart, and then complain the cart is shit, and needs fixed.

The NVG's are an aid to night time, where you can attack at your own designated time, why not use them?

[joostsidy 682]

The NVG's are an aid to night time, where you can attack at your own designated time, why not use them?

 

I'll come to the aid to the unassisted night lovers. This is a pretty poor argument Road Runner (and you know it! :-). You are well aware that Arma is a sandbox game which provides unlimited resources. Every mission I create, I can be supported by 10 CAS planes and 10 artillery pieces if I want to, because 'I have them, they are an aid, why not use them'. What is realistic for the Arma3 futuristic setting? Hard to say, it's fictional.

 

People do not include 10 CAS, 10 artillery or NVG, because they are designing specific scenario's that provide challenges and/or highlight areas of the game. In the case of NV, I perfectly understand that someone creates a mission in a futuristic setting where the player rises from a downed aircraft, having lost most of its equipment, including NVG.

 

With this setting you can create a challenging experience that includes you having to fight at a disadvantage against an enemy that use (futuristic) NVG, creating a unique experience. Having to play the mission at night without NVG also gives the opportunity to enjoy beautiful night scenery with more or less natural ambient light, depending on the circumstances, and artificial light sources like flares, camp fires etc.

 

I can understand complaints if the challenge in such a mission is now artificially heightened by unrealistically dark nights in some circumstances. If previous versions of the game looked more realistic and more beautiful, I can understand the dissappointment people have over the lighting developments.

 

I would like to drive a horse and cart, because it looks pretty, is relaxing and has some challenges. If the wheels come off after a week, I will definitely complain that the cart is shit though. Some wheels have come off the lighting engine, BIS has acknowledged this.

[Variable 322]

Sure road runner, if there's an aspect of the game that YOU don't use, there's no reason to maintain it. Everybody who enjoy a certain aspect of the game that is not on YOUR list, should simply refer to YOUR list (can we have a link please?) and change his preferences to YOUR preferences. To top it all, all gaming companies can price their products according to road runner's bank account, because if YOU can afford it, it must be affordable to everybody.

[Alwarren 2765]

The NVG's are an aid to night time, where you can attack at your own designated time, why not use them?

 

Woa, that is almost as hilarious as... no I think that must be one of a kind.

 

So, if BIS today announced that, since most people play Altis Life, they want to remove all AI from the game, implement a monetary system and shops, and drop everything military related from their game, would you accept the same bullshit excuse from them? "Monetary systems and shops are important, why not use them"? Who died and made you God that you think that your personal preference should be the benchmark of everything?

 

Let's face it. Arma is more of a platform than just a game. People play different kind of games on it. If you feel like it, you can even make it a goddam cart racing game. And there you come, putting quotes around the word concern so to disqualify it as a thing of minor importance or just imaginary? You are displaying one of the most arrogant, self-centered attitudes I have seen on this forum since a long time.

 

Yes, I do not like Altis Life, nor King of the Hill, nor Exile. So what? Should I say that if a Altis Life player asks for more civilian assets, that's just a "concern"? Should I tell them "this game is a military game and you are just abusing it, so fall in line and play like a real Arma player"? No. Yet, that is exactly what you are doing.

 

One of the best campaigns for any Arma game was Resistance, where most of the time you DO NOT get NVG's. Your personal playstyle and preference is your own, and you are entitled to it; what you are NOT entitled to is dismissing everyone else's concerns as inconsequential.

 

What are you even arguing for? From everything I can see, you will not be affected to any change of the night lighting, since you are so special ops that you never take off your NVG's. That's fine. So why on earth are you arguing against changes?`Just for brown-nosing? Because that is the idea that I take away from it.

 

I will not tell you to stay out of the discussion, but if you have nothing meaningful to add, then, well, why not stay out of it?

[IndeedPete 1038]

I've recently played around with no-NVG night missions for my clan. And it really all comes down to date, time, overcast, and density of vegetation, trees and such. Last weekend, we played a mission on a date with full moon, starting at midnight, no overcast, on Utes, so rather low vegetation. We rarely had to use our flashlights because the moonlight was bright enough. Of course, it's harder to ID targets, we had one friendly fire incident - but that was part of the fun. On another day, we played Tanoa, full overcast plus fog, shortly before sunrise. We couldn't see shit, even with flashlights attached, leading to our MG gunner actually falling down a cliff:

 

 

Again, it was all part of the fun, and the overall challenge. I don't feel it's too dark or too bright - it all depends on said conditions.

[dragon01 902]

That was hilarious. :) Yeah, non-NVG night and early morning missions can be fun, too. I think that BIS should give "low tech" missions another look. In A3 even FIA had NVGs, guns with hi-tech optics and so on. Back in OFP, only the squad leader had NVGs and even they were only issued on night missions.

 

BTW, you could get NVGs in OFP:R on the second mission, so it's not so great of an example. You did have to pry them from the cold dead hands of Soviet tankers, but those were quite readily available if you did it right.

To top it all, all gaming companies can price their products according to road runner's bank account, because if YOU can afford it, it must be affordable to everybody.

What always frustrates me is when Americans keep claiming something is "cheap" where it's hardly so in any place that isn't US, UK, Switzerland or the parts of Western Europe that have adopted Euro. Would Apex be worth buying if it costed 135 dollars? That's roughly what you're asking a person in, say, Poland to pay, as far as buying power goes. In Czech Republic it's similar and even worse further east. Ever wonder why Russians pirate games far more often than the Westerners? That's why.

[Alwarren 2765]

Night isn't bright or dark all the time. The brightness changes depending on time, moon brightness and position and overcast. The darkest times are just after the sun set and just before the sun rise.

 

Then it also depends on map config. Saying "nights are too dark" doesn't really tell anything, other than it maybe is at some point for some people. You need to give map, date, time and overcast.

 

Too bad that I can't video record that because my recordings are way too dark compared to what it really looks like.

 

I think the most glaring issue with the night lighting is that the contrast is too high.Inside Shadows, everything is compressed into a very low level, making it almost impossible to see anything. Since Arma 3 doesn't really cope with eye adaption, nor with bouncing light, it makes shadows almost black, while it overexposes other, bright areas. For example, white walls in the current night lighting (and day lighting as well, for the matter) tend to become ultra-bright. In day, it means that (the same way as with the shadows) high frequencies are compressed into a very narrow spectrum at the top, completely erasing any details.

As far as i can see, lowering the contrast slider doesn't help much since it seems to be mostly post-processing.

[road runner 4344]

Woa, that is almost as hilarious as... no I think that must be one of a kind.

 

What's so hilarious about an obvious statement?

 

So, if BIS today announced that, since most people play Altis Life, they want to remove all AI from the game, implement a monetary system and shops, and drop everything military related from their game, would you accept the same bullshit excuse from them? "Monetary systems and shops are important, why not use them"? Who died and made you God that you think that your personal preference should be the benchmark of everything?

And who died and made you a similar God? an observation that I personally use NVG's make me a God does it? Again you completely missed the point where it boils down to PERSONAL tastes no matter what your game style is, but EVERYONE uses the same base product... again personal choices.

 

Let's face it. Arma is more of a platform than just a game. People play different kind of games on it. If you feel like it, you can even make it a goddam cart racing game. And there you come, putting quotes around the word concern so to disqualify it as a thing of minor importance or just imaginary? You are displaying one of the most arrogant, self-centered attitudes I have seen on this forum since a long time.

Hmmmm you're not too shabby in the arrogant stakes either. That's you're assumption on the quotes around the word "concern"  dismissing it's as nothing, or minor, that's wrong, but don't let that get in your way of your own opinion. The quotation marks were put around the word to highlight that it's still an ongoing issue, perhaps I should have used a different word to describe it as opposed to concern, but then again I'm not writing for an English exam!!

I also couldn't care less if you think I'm self centred or arrogant either.

 

 

Yes, I do not like Altis Life, nor King of the Hill, nor Exile. So what? Should I say that if a Altis Life player asks for more civilian assets, that's just a "concern"? Should I tell them "this game is a military game and you are just abusing it, so fall in line and play like a real Arma player"? No. Yet, that is exactly what you are doing.

Why? because I said the smart thing at night is to use NVG's but if you chose not to use them, that's again a personal issue, it's not my methodology, did I say you SHOULD be using them period? 

 

One of the best campaigns for any Arma game was Resistance, where most of the time you DO NOT get NVG's. Your personal playstyle and preference is your own, and you are entitled to it; what you are NOT entitled to is dismissing everyone else's concerns as inconsequential.

 

Nope, what I said was that if you chose to NOT use NVG's or any other night aids, knowing the nightime isn't the best, that's down to you.. your choice, point in case being it's well known the lighting isn't the best, but if you keep your game play to night time, then you're chosing to ignore your own concerns over the night lighting.

 

What are you even arguing for? From everything I can see, you will not be affected to any change of the night lighting, since you are so special ops that you never take off your NVG's. That's fine. So why on earth are you arguing against changes?`Just for brown-nosing? Because that is the idea that I take away from it.

Who's arguing? you again missed the part where I said those who chose to do ops in the dark, given the current state of the night lighting have my admiration. The comment about me being super Spec Ops...childish. The brown nosing? to who? and to what aim? the tickets for the poor night lighting have been submitted, and will no doubt at some stage be rectified, but pretty sure DWarden already said it's not exactly a simple fix, with no time frame for it to be fixed either.

If I find an issue I don't like, I submit a tracker for it.  

 

I will not tell you to stay out of the discussion, but if you have nothing meaningful to add, then, well, why not stay out of it?

 

Unless you're a mod, then stop acting like one!!, and you had the nerve to call me God Like..

The whole point right from the off was that whatever game play style it all boils down to personal preference, the night lighting is an issue, a know one, and the devs also know about it, using NVG or don't use them, personal choice.

 

[barbolani 198]

Hi guys, I think you are trolling a bit this thred. Please stick to what you technically see in Tanoa and what's to improve in a technical sense, because I've posted  here some things which are a real issue for a lot of people and now are behind a ton of posts about what's life, economy, Arma purpose and all those mean old topics.

[Richie 330]

Hi guys, I think you are trolling a bit this thred. Please stick to what you technically see in Tanoa and what's to improve in a technical sense

 

Yeah like the urgent stuff, us terrain builders want the files to increase the community made addon section :D more terrains using Apex assest = more reasons to buy = better quality biscuits at the BI annual meeting.

[R3vo 2652]

Here's a very ugly rock formation which could use some love.

["Paste",["tanoa",[7121.11,11093,21.2529],55.353,0.7,[-24.2857,0],0,0,720.045,0.299762,0,1,0,1]] call bis_fnc_camera;

[bad benson 1733]

not sure if this is the right thread but did anyone else notice how you get that jungle like noise even when standing next to a line of palm trees on the side of a road in a pretty urban area? i kinda feel the the threshold for blending in that sound environment for dense vegetation areas needs some tweaking. or maybe have some components of the sounds be less loud until a certain density is reached. to hear what i mean stand next to some bushes with third person on and then move the camera in and out of the bushes.

the bird soudns are great but there is that background noise of a shitload of insects that sounds like way too many for one or two bushes. i know it'S quite nit picky but thought i bring it up.

 

 

also: pelase fix those too short roots on the large jungle trees. they are sticking out the ground all over the place.

 

also: would be great, if AI could consider how tight those jungle paths are and either not use them or only use them, if the bounding box of their vehicle is small enough.

[BadHabitz 235]

How many of your friends smoke and are spending more than $5 on their habit a day?

 

How many of your friends drink alcohol, and live for the weekends where a good night out cost upwards of $100 ?

How many of your friends are married, and have their own apartments and pay $5 a day on food that never gets eaten? 

In today's day and age where the average child's pocket money is in excess of $10 a week, you're telling me that people find it hard to save up $35 for a one off purchase?

How many of your friends all own smartphones that cost in excess of $500 and have it loaded with apps and music?

Unless you're actually unemployed and on some kind of welfare, I find such comments as the expansion being too expensive at $35, where the average console game now is anywhere between $30- $100 quite a broad one to make.

Are the youth of today that hard up? :unsure:

 

 

I've used those same arguments before. I think the problem here is that the $35 price is not seen as a good value for a terrain. Because of mods we have no use for the weapons/gear and vehicles. The real draw for Apex is the terrain, and although it might be possible to pool some money to buy Apex, the price is too high for what's being bought. It's not just about affording the asking price, it's also the price compared to what's offered.

 

From what I know, the guys in my circle that haven't bought Apex are in college, living in dorms or with parents. With the costs of school and surviving it's not a simple call to spend so much on one terrain in a video game.

 

You wouldn't pay $35 for a pack of cigarettes, although you might be able to afford it. You might balk at paying $35 for a single map in a game like Battlefield or CoD. You might be able to pay $1200 for a smartphone, but is it worth that price? 

 

Ultimately I was just venting my frustrations in as civil a manner as possible. Not sure where else to voice my concerns. 

[Grumpy Old Man 3540]

From what I know, the guys in my circle that haven't bought Apex are in college, living in dorms or with parents. With the costs of school and surviving it's not a simple call to spend so much on one terrain in a video game.

 

"So much"?

It's just 35$.

Discussing if your friends who go to college can't afford this really doesn't belong here.

 

Cheers

[IndeedPete 1038]

"So much"?

It's just 35$.

Discussing if your friends who go to college can't afford this really doesn't belong here.

 

Cheers

 

I think his main point was the value proposition. For many people, Apex just offers Tanoa because they don't care for the new assets or the co-op campaign. For them, it boils down to the question: "is Tanoa worth 35$?". And even if it's a really cool terrain, I'd say that alone is not worth the full price.

[ruPal 143]

I see a lot of people here talking about others money or income. Well, if there are so many people that think 35$ are free, just donate them me. I will be soooooooooo happy. If no, your words do not worth a penny.

[bad benson 1733]

i hate to be that wannabe moderator guy, but aren't 3 pages of this enough? let's get back to bitching and nit picking about Tanoa itself please :lol:

[road runner 4344]

I see a lot of people here talking about others money or income. Well, if there are so many people that think 35$ are free, just donate them me. I will be soooooooooo happy. If no, your words do not worth a penny.

Not really, it's simply putting things into perspective, there are indeed genuinely some people who can't afford it and others who can, but won't ( but can afford a rig good enough to play Arma3 though ;)  ) I have never met a student who doesn't have money to get blootered at the weekend though :D

If people want something that much, they will always find a way to get it, purchasing games is no different.

Now back to Tanoa... is anyone else getting a missing concrete texture error?

[domokun 515]

I think his main point was the value proposition. For many people, Apex just offers Tanoa because they don't care for the new assets or the co-op campaign. For them, it boils down to the question: "is Tanoa worth 35$?". And even if it's a really cool terrain, I'd say that alone is not worth the full price.

Yeah but ARma is a platform.

So not buying Apex, means that can't enjoy any missions or mods designed for that excellent, e.g. Unsung mod (best Vietnam mod), Tanao insurgency, Warlords of the Pacific, etc.

[IndeedPete 1038]

Yeah but ARma is a platform.

So not buying Apex, means that can't enjoy any missions or mods designed for that excellent, e.g. Unsung mod (best Vietnam mod), Tanao insurgency, Warlords of the Pacific, etc.

 

Two of the three things you named I personally don't care for and the third one literally comes with its own maps. We have some clanmates who didn't buy Apex and they just can't join a Tanoa mission. Their decision, their money, their problem. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Anyway, it's going off-topic, let's just follow deputy moderator benson's advice. :)

[R3vo 2652]

Could the collision for those stupid small stones everywhere on Tanoa be removed? They cause the character to stand up every freaking time.... and god knows, Arma is clunky enough without issues like that already.

[barbolani 198]

Two of the three things you named I personally don't care for and the third one literally comes with its own maps. 

 

If you knew what you are talking about you would order APEX in 10 minutes :)