Visual Upgrade – Feedback

[road runner 4344]

Bis can add settings Apex lightings on and off :P

 I know someone may like new stuff in game but for me its look like borderlands now :D   arma now looks like its not finished like one type graphic is layered on other type of graphic

Do you think it would be that simple? I love the new settings for the most part, they feel more natural now, more photo realistic than the pre 1.58versions,  I wasn't sure at first, but the more I mess around, the better they get aesthetically, I don't tweak any settings either, I leave it all on default as it doesn't look too bad for me on this shit laptop.

All this eye candy has different looks on the different settings that people use, the different monitors and graphics card etc etc, what looks green on one persons PC/Laptop can look black/grey on another persons, BIS already put sliders in so that you can set the maps to how YOU want then to look, it's all down to fine tuning, they have given a solution, others have given the same solutions, but the haters are always gonna hate ;)

[HeroesandvillainsOS 1504]

So I've been giving this a lot of thought. I guess I'm a relatively new player by the standards here (I've owned the game a little over a year, I just hit the 1,000 hour mark), but I'm pretty active all over the Steam/Reddit/BIS/ALiVE forums and have been since day one.

I've read a lot of complaints about this game, but I cannot recall one instance ever where anyone - let alone a vocal majority - criticized the game's lighting. Performance? Oh heck yes. So if this was done for performance reasons, that makes sense. But I have never ever read someone say that thought Takistan, Rashmaan, Sangin, Kunduz, FATA, Zargabad, Capraia or N'Ziwasogo had bad lighting. Nor have I ever read that people didn't enjoy the hell out of the feelings and ambience of these maps.

I sure never complained. I've patrolled these maps and have been in awe ever since owning this game. One thing I never thought was wrong was the lighting.

Now I agree that Altis/Stratis and what I've seen of Tanoa with the new lighting looks good (nighttime aside, as we all know this is simply a bug with ambient lighting, etc). And also these are BIS' maps so I respect any change they want to make there. But for what we may have gained on those maps, we have lost so much.

Every map I mentioned above and then some, which is a hybrid of community made and ported locations, looks absolutely atrocious. I mean I can't get over how unpleasant it is to walk around and patrol these maps now.

I'm on the Apex bandwagon. I pre-ordered and I am proud. I love this game more than anything video game related ever and will continue to do so. But for what we have gained with Apex, we have lost more than what it's worth. If I had to pick, I'd take the dozens or hundreds of community maps looking good over the 3 official Arma 3 ones every day of the week.

I'm just astonished that this change was forced on every map. I never ever publicly saw anyone ask for this. Now, if the change was necessary either for performance or for continued support, then I guess I get it. But if not, this universal lighting change single-handedly killed a lot of what I loved about this game which is just picking a map for the night, walking around, patrolling and being constantly in awe over Arma's magnificence and beauty. And maybe killing a bad guy every now and then. :)

I don't enjoy the game like I used to and I just wish they'd change it back. I know a lot of you disagree with me and I respect everyone's opinion. I just don't enjoy the game like I used to and I wish this could have been avoided just by letting each map author choose.

[Vasily.B 529]

I play only vanilla arma and I hate new lighting.. so what I should stop play this game ??? really because I paid for some game what excited me but now its different product ..

 

New lighting looks terrible on stratis, altis maps. The fact is, that it is worse on CUP maps. Check takistan map, it feels like snow / bleach everywhere !!!, so do not write it is fixed on CUP maps...

And the winning answer is......

community made / ported maps needs to update theirs lighting config (for multiple reason not just Visual Upgrade) ...

it was written (repeatedly) there will be related documentation update in future (hopefully sooner than later)

of course some brave community makers already did so (e.g. CUP) theirs own attempt to correct it

Also, you can rollback to 1.58, use google please, as it isnt place for explaining everything...... tousands of times.

[road runner 4344]

Good post H&V

 

This part sticks out the most for me.

 

If I had to pick, I'd take the dozens or hundreds of community maps looking good over the 3 official Arma 3 ones every day of the week.

 

I don't think there's anyone out there who doesn't like icebreakers maps for example, and other map makers addons, but again if they're using ported content for a different engine, it's not BIS that has to adapt back to these maps,( from what I've seen, the biggest issue with the custom made maps, as opposed to the ported ones, was the sky issue) it's the map makers/porters who have to adapt their maps, as they're not actually supported by the A3 team.

When map makers decided to create or port their content, they do so knowing there's always a risk that any future upgrades to the game could potentially break their product, the difference here is also that they're not selling a product, whereas BIS are.

When BIS change their configs for their project maps as per their vision and road map, it's down to the map makers to keep up to date, and if the changes are drastic, as has been seen here in the latest upgrade, it's not a BIS responsibility to fix this issue, but they have been doing so, they're making the configs available to map makers of those ported maps, it's the map makers responsibility mate.

There's some great ported maps out there, Aliabad being one of my favourites, it's not part of CUP's either, and it doesn't actually look too bad with the current Visual Updates.

If I buy a car with no/expired warranty, it's not the garage I bought it from responsibility to keep it in good working order, it's mine, and the garage is under no obligation to continue upgrading my car to the latest model is it ? ;) .

[bogey jammer 16]

I think he told about both custom maps and official ones (Altis & Stratis) that also need to be reworked. So BIS is part of the labor too.

[HeroesandvillainsOS 1504]

When BIS change their configs for their project maps as per their vision and road map, it's down to the map makers to keep up to date, and if the changes are drastic, as has been seen here in the latest upgrade, it's not a BIS responsibility to fix this issue, but they have been doing so, they're making the configs available to map makers of those ported maps, it's the map makers responsibility mate.

Thanks for the detailed breakdown. That actually makes a lot of sense.

So I guess that leads me to this question because I honestly don't know the answer. For BIS to implement the lighting change, did they have to do it universally? Or could they have only applied it to Altis/Stratis/Tanoa?

I was under the impression they had the option to make the change for their maps only, but chose to make it a universal change.

If I'm wrong on that and they had no choice in the matter, then yeah what you're saying is very reasonable. I don't want or expect them not to improve their game. It doesn't make me feel better about the maps I love looking terrible now, but at least I get it if that's the case. I just thought BIS had a choice here.

Does anyone definitively know the answer to that?

[teabagginpeople 398]

community made / ported maps needs to update theirs lighting config (for multiple reason not just Visual Upgrade) ...it was written (repeatedly) there will be related documentation update in future (hopefully sooner than later)of course some brave community makers already did so (e.g. CUP) theirs own attempt to correct it

Bahaha I can sense the frustration.

The age of information and technology my butt. Seems so many are not bothered to read anything.

The visual update looks good on Tanoa. hard to argue against that. For me it looks good on Altis too.

To shout rollback is so short sighted . To shout rollback Is to take away from any future maps the opportunity to look as amazing as Tonoa does and probably even better. For what? The impatience to wait for the older custom maps to be reworked?

The mind boggles.

[road runner 4344]

I think they did just change it for Altis and Stratis, all the other maps inherit the properties of these two maps, so the knock on effect went across the board.

icebreaker actually posted something on his twitter several months back that he aware that the visual upgrade would "break" a lot of the custom maps, although at the time, nobody fro BIS was able to confirm that would happen.

I think a lot of people are misunderstanding me on this as well, I'm far from against custom map makers, when I use so many myself, some of the issues they're seeing, I'm not, where I am seeing a horrendous difference is the maps where there's a lot of arid spaces, so I don't use them, it's as simple as that. I have a choice, use them or don't, it doesn't get much simpler. 

Nobody is forced to play a game, nobody forces anyone to use 3rd party addons either, we do it through choice, I have every sympathy for addon makers who are having to change their configs to get their addons working after an update mate, but it's Not BIS responsibility, it's mine, and if I want my addons to keep working, I have to adapt and evolve as they have to the new mechanics, it's not the other way around, in that BIS has to conform to what I need.

Do you feel that BIS should have reached out to all the 3rd party addon makers to seek their permission, remembering it's actually their original products if it's ported maps, used in the first place, to update their product that generates them revenue ?  or do you think that addon makers are the ones who need to be the ones conforming to what BIS are doing?

Do you read the small print when installing software that can "potentially harm your computer" and that doing so is your responsibility, and yours alone?

BIS don't have to keep supporting a product from another game, if it conflicts with their current one, I don't believes there's anything in any of their disclaimers or EULA's that state they're obliged to do so either, I'd be interested to see if anyone can dig that up, and check.

I do have a lot of empathy for the porters and map makers, I know myself that any updates to my own addons, the only person responsible for making sure they work is myself, and if they don't, I am the one who has to find a workaround solution, and if it stops working, I have to remake them based on what's available at present, not what was available in the past ;) and I'm sure you would agree with your AliVE missions you create?  

 

[nodunit 397]

MTP or originally knows as MultiCam is ti light in hue right now. Tonign it down into the darker more brown prominet hue would make it work as intended...even in a lush environment. I just made this picture 10 minutes ago to show how good Multicam works in lush green grass and foilage. In ArmA II the pattern is simply wrong (and does not contain bright white anymore like early prints, only light tans.)

 

figure 1: overcast daylight 9th june 10:20am

 

figure 2: under trees canopy shade, June 9th 11:15am

Oh wow, thats crazy.  Okay I rescind my previous post.

[ruPal 143]

BIS don't have to keep supporting a product from another game, if it conflicts with their current one, I don't believes there's anything in any of their disclaimers or EULA's that state they're obliged to do so either, I'd be interested to see if anyone can dig that up, and check.

Omg, nothing will stop BI to switch to 2D graphics in *.** version of the game. And then you will tell us - thats fine, I like it, evolution in progress...

I don't want to explain one more time but there is a problems with Altis and Startis too. Several players noticed that in the thread. That means BI will have to change textures/rvmats/configs for most objects on Altis and Startis. That will take a lot of time. Should I tell that all terrain makers will have to do the same with ported content? Time needed...

UPD: Oh, I forgot about weapons/equipment/uniforms/vehicles... all of them should be fixed to new system. So not only static objects needs changes. Otherwise we will get that great "brighter than the sun" camo issues http://a.pomf.cat/ttxbdv.jpg

[aronh17 26]

I like the visual upgrade overall as it gives a great look to clouds, overall lighting and of course the screen space reflections really boost visual quality. On the other hand night time can look strange at times especially with clouds, sometimes clothing stands out slightly bright in darkness. So for me day time is much better than it used to be, but now night time has its quirks.
 

Altis and Stratis are stronger on the brightness and contrast which isn't a huge deal to me but Tanoa looks absolutely fantastic.

[Vasily.B 529]

I will just quote OFFICIAL CHANGELOG 1.60

https://dev.arma3.com/post/spotrep-00056
 

 

added: New Visual Upgrade parameters to the CAWorld based on a community request

[road runner 4344]

Omg, nothing will stop BI to switch to 2D graphics in *.** version of the game. And then you will tell us - thats fine, I like it, evolution in progress...

I don't want to explain one more time but there is a problems with Altis and Startis too. Several players noticed that in the thread. That means BI will have to change textures/rvmats/configs for most objects on Altis and Startis. That will take a lot of time. Should I tell that all terrain makers will have to do the same with ported content? Time needed...

UPD: Oh, I forgot about weapons/equipment/uniforms/vehicles... all of them should be fixed to new system. So not only static objects needs changes. Otherwise we will get that great "brighter than the sun" camo issues http://a.pomf.cat/ttxbdv.jpg

 

Your first sentence is asinine, however, not unexpected from you, if you can prove to me and the forum, that anywhere I have ever mentioned that 2D would be considered progress, or an evolution, then you would make sense, but I know you can't.

 

Errrr, it's not me you need to do the explaining to, it's all those who are slagging off BIS and complaining constantly after every update, and expecting BIS to have it fixed like yesterday, I've repeatedly stated that people need to be patient.. you should try it sometimes. 

You can tell terrain makers anything you want, which is a contradiction to your previous post, with regards to personal opinions and keeping them to yourself.

I have noticed that you are one of the constantly complaining camp, after every update you have an issue, totally understandable, you want a game you can enjoy, I'd like to eat fillet steak once a week, but I have to settle for what's given to me, but I can but wish. You're also not averse to using hyperbolic statements either, whilst at the same time, you rarely acknowledge the people who are genuinely happy with the upgrade, and I'm willing to bet, that the majority of people are indeed quite happy with the splendid update.

If Arma3 isn't up to your expectations and requirements RuPal, there's nothing stopping you from taking a break from it, and checking in on progress with regards to bug fixes etc, from time to time, that's what I would do, and have done in the past. It's easy to see you're frustrated, you're letting a game control your life, and your emotions, Many games I've been stuck on levels and got so wound up that I wanted to smash the fucking monitor, that's when I realised that I was taking everything too seriously, and I became tolerant and more patient, things will be fixed when they're fixed. ;)  

[nodunit 397]

Should I tell that all terrain makers will have to do the same with ported content? Time needed...

UPD: Oh, I forgot about weapons/equipment/uniforms/vehicles... all of them should be fixed to new system. So not only static objects needs changes. Otherwise we will get that great "brighter than the sun" camo issues http://a.pomf.cat/ttxbdv.jpg

 

Yup, if it was done through some form of modding then its on the modders job or another if they have permission, to bring it up to date.  That is how its always been and always will be, base content is another story.

 

 

 splendid update.

 

No that update was three years ago.

 

:dance1:

[bogey jammer 16]

If Arma3 isn't up to your expectations and requirements RuPal, there's nothing stopping you from taking a break from it, and checking in on progress with regards to bug fixes etc, from time to time, that's what I would do, and have done in the past. It's easy to see you're frustrated, you're letting a game control your life, and your emotions, Many games I've been stuck on levels and got so wound up that I wanted to smash the fucking monitor, that's when I realised that I was taking everything too seriously, and I became tolerant and more patient, things will be fixed when they're fixed. ;)

My friend, you should take a break too, you're making that thread painful to follow because of your constant opposition against people talking about their problems with that upgrade, your impersonation of a BI's dev talk, and your boring lectures… Remember, it's a feedback thread, not a reeducation camp.

[dnl04 76]

Dear road runner,

It's true that BI is not obligated to maintain, fix or change portions of their child only to keep alive some third party content that got severely wounded by their update attempt... but it's also true that if that high quality third party content never existed, BI would've sold a lot less copies.

I actually like many aspects of the abovementioned update, but we should also face the fact that many stuff that brought ArmA 3 to life got broken, many loyal modders' tears got shed to the grass that turned into sand, many fear infested hearts turned into cold ice cubes, and many hopes turned into particles of dust.

We can all agree that BI is the best company, which have the best, most passionate developers but, in my opinion, they should keep caring about those who contribute to filling up their wallets.

Great work with the update BI, even though there's a lot of things that should be fixed...

[panimala 25]

Don't forget, Tanoa is still in Decelopment and is subject to change(...)

That is indeed why I am providing feedback in this feedback thread.

[road runner 4344]

My friend, you should take a break too, you're making that thread painful to follow because of your constant opposition against people talking about their problems with that upgrade, your impersonation of a BI's dev talk, and your boring lectures… Remember, it's a feedback thread, not a reeducation camp.

Of which all of the issues have been brought up NUMEROUS times, in numerous threads and acknowledged many times. It's a feedback thread, indeed, not a constant grip thread, post your feedback, and be patient when these fixes are not forthcoming.

My boring lectures are in response to the boring repetitive comments by a handful of people, I am NOT against people with issues, it's the constant bringing those up at every given opportunity, it's the snidely and defamatory digs at the games developers which irk me above all.

Don't like my comments, don't read them... simples ;)

[pansyfaust 69]

Not sure if it's related directly to the visual upgrade, but the full sniper uniforms aren't affected by shadow at all.

some animals like goats aren't either.

[danil-ch 165]

Something wrong with glass reflections.

https://feedback.bistudio.com/T117551

[aseliot 2]

I really like the visual upgrade everything looks a lot better also with the high saturation it only feels like you've adjusted the view distance of objects in such a way that things seem to pop in more when you don't have a high view distance set.

 

Also the text resolution seems broken on 21:9 (at 2560*1080) for the editor for example i cannot even see the second stripe from the = sign (it's also barely visible at all). All the text is way too small, maybe some people like it this way but it can't be good if certain symbols seem to display incorrectly.

[bogey jammer 16]

Of which all of the issues have been brought up NUMEROUS times, in numerous threads and acknowledged many times. It's a feedback thread, indeed, not a constant grip thread, post your feedback, and be patient when these fixes are not forthcoming.

My boring lectures are in response to the boring repetitive comments by a handful of people, I am NOT against people with issues, it's the constant bringing those up at every given opportunity, it's the snidely and defamatory digs at the games developers which irk me above all.

Don't like my comments, don't read them... simples ;)

 

You don't like repetitive comments and attacks to your dev Gods ? Don't read them, and more importantly, don't respond to them. Simple.

Let the moderators do their job if the situation requires it.

[R0adki11 3949]

You don't like repetitive comments and attacks to your dev Gods ? Don't read them, and more importantly, don't respond to them. Simple.

Let the moderators do their job if the situation requires it.

Can we please stay on topic, like previous asked. If anyone feels that a post is inappropriate, please use the report post button to alert a moderator. - Thanks

[pawelkpl 29]

Hi, Please tell me which one is 1.58 and which one is 1.60 (same location, same time, same weather conditions, etc). Tell me which picture gives you natural lfe feeling...

 

[Vasily.B 529]

My friend, you should take a break too, you're making that thread painful to follow because of your constant opposition against people talking about their problems with that upgrade, your impersonation of a BI's dev talk, and your boring lectures… Remember, it's a feedback thread, not a reeducation camp.

Maybe beacuse there are SAME COMPLAINS ABOUT SAME ISSUES FROM 40 SITES? You realise its just spam and "pain" to read? All is already reported, develeopers taken note, all you can do is wait. deal with that or get back to 1.58.