Targeting improvements

[oukej 2911]

With today's dev branch we begin to stage a bundle of changes that we collectively label as "Targeting improvements".

Today is the first iteration we pushed to gather some feedback and ideas.

Here's in short what you should look for:

Commanding

• The indication of an assigned target you get as a subordinate got bolder, thicker and more visible. (subject to 'Commands' difficulty option)
• The assigned target is now also indicated on the map (subject to 'Extended map content' difficulty option)
• When the target is no longer seen by any of your squad mates it will fade and eventually disappear, so there should no longer be target icons floating over empty space (or at least not as much).

 

Crew communication

• there's now a way to display where other crew members are aiming
• the purpose of this is mainly to ease up a bit the commander's and gunner's job - abstract the awareness and communication they'd have IRL
• we believe that this may be better for gameplay and also be a more intuitive way to do it instead of accurately modelling hunter-killer and slaving, which could pose several problems in multiplayer
• bisclaimer: as for now it may not work in all configured vehicles, try Slammer UP

 

Weapon Systems

• marking a target becomes dependable on the vehicle systems and sensors (in config called scanners) - so you can mark a target and seamlessly cycle through your weapons without loosing the designation.
• marked target is indicated by brackets
• a target that is no longer in your line of sight and its position is only estimated is indicated by a dashed square
• once you select a weapon that can guide itself towards the target the icon will change into a full square and as soon as you get the target into your weapon launch acceptability region the weapon will start locking
• locked target and lock acquisition indication has got slightly changed - when a full lock is acquired you'll see a small dot in the center
• there's also a crossed square IFF indication when you mark a friendly target
• we also want to differentiate between guidance or locking on a target - and - fire control systems that only assist firing with ballistic and unguided weapons (predicted impact point, lead computing, ...)
  • there's a new target lead indicator - currently configured for gunships, airplanes and AAAs
  • tank FCS has also slightly changed - the correct firing solution is now indicated by a green square
  • these systems currently allow you to mark about anything (will be fixed)

 

Targeting pods

• all vanilla airplanes now feature a simple 'virtual' (not modeled) targeting pod with few elements in its UI. It can be accessed by pressing CTRL+RMB (by default)
• it uses a feature called "pilotCamera" (Which has already been utilized on helicopters as a static down-looking slingloading assistant camera. A configuration example can be found in the samples on Steam.)
• it's an early iteration (don't expect all features of it's mod counterpart (yet)

Note: config examples WIP

We're looking forward to your feedback!

[cosmic10r 2331]

Great stuff oukej!

Love the attention the ai stuff is getting recently.

That partnership with the vacuum company is really paying off...

[AndrewsRG 22]

Me likey Likey!

[sargken 286]

You should improve Flare deployment systems

[en3x 209]

Well I find crew communication extremely gamey.Unless this kind of system exist in merkava?I have no knowledge of that.

There shouldn't be abstract communication because of audio communication between gunner/commander.

 

If am correct each position is separated, and gunner/driver are looking through their own periscopes.How do they have abstract

knowing where each is looking?I believe that they assign sectors (cover our 8 to 12, I got 12 to 4 o clock) and that is where they are looking.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I'm mainly disliking this due to not knowing similar systems in real life counter parts and more abstract visual elements.

(I as a gunner, I really don't care where the driver is looking at)

[INF_MIke64 53]

I like this, just gave it a test in dev but I cant seem to get the targeting pods to work.

All I'm doing is opening Eden and placing a vanilla aircraft down no mods at all. 

Where can I find the key assignment, I may have changed it.

[gippo 38]

Awesome news!

One question: Will you fix that "problem" when cycling trough targets always locks onto hostile vehicles, even though there's not enough information about that vehicle (unknown target)?

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

You should improve Flare deployment systems

It would be nice to see the Single Pop Flare mode return to Vanilla Arma. It was always burst by default, and as such, wouldn't even effect game-play negatively, most importantly for AI.

[en3x 209]

I just checked abrams M1A2 sep targeting systems in steel beast and I can't see any sort of system that shows where are others looking.

 

 

However I wouldn't mind seeing proper FCS in arma tank systems.Ace3 has is for a while.

 

I do like new targeting square, and it would be even better to make it part of green graphical overlay.

Right now it still looks out of place as it did.

 

it changes from white to green for some reason.Need more testing.

 

Oh if you have mouse on it it turns green.Else is white.

 

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Tanks are close to my heart so I will address each point

........................................................................................

 

Weapon Systems

• marking a target becomes dependable on the vehicle systems and sensors (in config called scanners) - so you can mark a target and seamlessly cycle through your weapons without loosing the designation.
• marked target is indicated by brackets
• a target that is no longer in your line of sight and its position is only estimated is indicated by a dashed square
• once you select a weapon that can guide itself towards the target the icon will change into a full square and as soon as you get the target into your weapon launch acceptability region the weapon will start locking
• locked target and lock acquisition indication has got slightly changed - when a full lock is acquired you'll see a small dot in the center
• there's also a crossed square IFF indication when you mark a friendly target
• we also want to differentiate between guidance or locking on a target - and - fire control systems that only assist firing with ballistic and unguided weapons (predicted impact point, lead computing, ...)
  • there's a new target lead indicator - currently configured for gunships, airplanes and AAAs
  • tank FCS has also slightly changed - the correct firing solution is now indicated by a green square
  • these systems currently allow you to mark about anything (will be fixed)

 

1.Having marked targets without loosing designation is good.

 

2.Marked target is indicated with brackets.That what it was before.You pressed T and it marked target with bracket.If mouse was over it, you would get also angular square over bracket.

 

3.From my experience estimation is not helpful.Why?Estimate is usually wrong.And is finicky to mark lost target even if you see it again.If mark would stop at last seen location and retain zeroing that would be ideal.

 

4.n/a for tanks

 

5.n/a for tanks

 

6. Okay.

 

7.Unsure how are tackling that statement.

 

8

 

9. Good - interface green overlay should be the same color.(elevation numbers, crosshair, etc)To be honest white is weird to see, reminds me on group brackets, and other things that have no relation with tank firing system.

 

But all this is not ideal solution.Proper FCS should have lasing key where you hold it on moving or stationary vehicle, calculates trajectory shows dot and distance and you are set.

This goes great for moving target - if you hold that 3s mark on vehicle you get the distance even if target passes bush you can hit your opponent.

 

Current arma 3 fcs deals with locking rectangles that are not authentic to real life, and don't work that way in tanks.ACE3 tank FCS is great example.

[x3kj 1247]

Nice work oukej & crew.
I very much like the lead indicator.

I just checked abrams M1A2 sep targeting systems in steel beast and I can't see any sort of system that shows where are others looking.

it's the future. Even '70s '80s tanks had an analog indicator where the turret/ commander view direction is at...
 

To be honest white is weird to see

you realize that arma has a UI color and layout customisation feature, right?

[en3x 209]

it's the future. Even '70s '80s tanks had an analog indicator where the turret/ commander view direction is at...

 

Show me then, I would like to see.But merkava 4 LIC is not a future.Neither is black panther and other battle tank.

[nikiforos 450]

Well it's always nice with suprises and it seems BIS are really expanding their horizon and most importantly they are inspired by community modders. Good work !!

[CaptainObvious 95]

Show me then, I would like to see.

 

The AMV driver has this, I'd find it odd that MBTs or other fighting vehicles wouldn't have something similar already, not to mention the armaverse in 2035.

 

[oukej 2911]

Thanks for the feedback and references!
 

I just checked abrams M1A2 sep targeting systems in steel beast and I can't see any sort of system that shows where are others looking.

 

However I wouldn't mind seeing proper FCS in arma tank systems.Ace3 has is for a while.

Actually you'd be able to find some inspiration in how direction of a sensor (TGP) is displayed on HUD of aircrafts today. But I'd say the main reason for these crew aim indicators was to know when the gunner is aimed at a target (and 'fire' command can be issued) or what has the commander given you as a target (i.e. over VON). IRL this information exchange would be very fast and precise - commander could slave the whole turret, look through gunner's optics or even fire (Steel Beasts have it, they are after all a dedicated simulation and a training tool.).
There are many things you'd naturally do in a tank to get that information. The performance gets much worse when there's a screen and a keyboard between you and the actual thing. Similarly to e.g. shacktac radar this is more of an abstraction of awareness that isn't carried over the medium but would (objectively) happen in real life. Ultimately the goal is to get a solid and believable tank crew experience.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Pretty awesome how the crew communication feature already works with the modded Mk V Soc. I can see where the commander is looking, as well as all 4 gunners. Brilliant.

[en3x 209]

 

you realize that arma has a UI color and layout customisation feature, right?

 

Yep I have been here ever since arma 3 got released.As oppose to match colors with customization, tank UI should be overall complete package with style

and color.Kind of like it would make no sense to adjust abrams tank reticle from rhs boys to red just because creators decided for white.

(I'm illustrating, they creator of abrams didn't actually make crosshair white)

[en3x 209]

Thanks for the feedback and references!

 

Actually you'd be able to find some inspiration in how direction of a sensor (TGP) is displayed on HUD of aircrafts today. But I'd say the main reason for these crew aim indicators was to know when the gunner is aimed at a target (and 'fire' command can be issued) or what has the commander given you as a target (i.e. over VON). IRL this information exchange would be very fast and precise - commander could slave the whole turret, look through gunner's optics or even fire (Steel Beasts have it, they are after all a dedicated simulation and a training tool.).

There are many things you'd naturally do in a tank to get that information. The performance gets much worse when there's a screen and a keyboard between you and the actual thing. Similarly to e.g. shacktac radar this is more of an abstraction of awareness that isn't carried over the medium but would (objectively) happen in real life. Ultimately the goal is to get a solid and believable tank crew experience.

 

I see what you are saying, like apache targeting sight and viewport on the bottom

 

 

I also feel like this feature is perfect for Singleplayer experience when you are dealing with AI.

 

For MP experience I don't see need for this, hopefully it's not part of mutliplayer experience.

I also like analogy to shac tac system interesting because in community that use to play it

was removed because people relied too much on it, and forgot to scan environment.heh.

Hopefully you give us option with this system.

[dr. hladik 231]

Well I find crew communication extremely gamey.Unless this kind of system exist in merkava?I have no knowledge of that.

There shouldn't be abstract communication because of audio communication between gunner/commander.

 

If am correct each position is separated, and gunner/driver are looking through their own periscopes.How do they have abstract

knowing where each is looking?I believe that they assign sectors (cover our 8 to 12, I got 12 to 4 o clock) and that is where they are looking.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I'm mainly disliking this due to not knowing similar systems in real life counter parts and more abstract visual elements.

(I as a gunner, I really don't care where the driver is looking at)

 

All depends on overall feedback. :)

[INF_MIke64 53]

Silly Idea but it would be awesome to have quick keys to rotate to commanders/gunners  target

[Freghar 73]

Proper FCS should have lasing key where you hold it on moving or stationary vehicle, calculates trajectory shows dot and distance and you are set.

This goes great for moving target - if you hold that 3s mark on vehicle you get the distance even if target passes bush you can hit your opponent.

"+1"

I know Arma3 tends to go the simplified route and automate things away from the player, but doing it like described above is also very easy to use (and realistic?) - both for zeroing in and leading moving targets. I believe it was AGM that had a working implementation some months ago.

It probably wouldn't work well for leading targets in an aircraft, wouldn't work well with fixed 100m-based range increments in vehicles, would need a different indicator, .. ah well, I tried. :)

[dunedain 48]

Any chance these improvements are gonna include working aiming pippers for cannon and rockets, CCIP and CCRP for bombs as well as radar signatures visible on the HUD for Apex? This would make everyone's life a thousand times easier while manning any kind of aircrafts and is quite honestly way overdue... Anyway tested it quick and it's definitely a step in the right direction.  :)

[Pyronick 21]

Any chance these improvements are gonna include working PIP reticles for cannon and rockets, CCIP and CCRP for bombs as well as radar signatures visible on the HUD for Apex? This would make everyone's life a thousand times easier while manning any kind of aircrafts and is quite honestly way overdue... Anyway tested it quick and it's definitely a step in the right direction.  :)

This, oh and targeting pod PIP is also very welcome.

[teddymosart1 40]

What about truly working Stealth planes?  Working radar,AWACS?  Would be so cool...these changes will make it more interesting to work as a team-just a Q:These "podded" things--will we be able to us .50 sniper rifles to knock-out various systems on parked helos and such?

[dr. hladik 231]

Any chance these improvements are gonna include working aiming pippers for cannon and rockets, CCIP and CCRP for bombs as well as radar signatures visible on the HUD for Apex? This would make everyone's life a thousand times easier while manning any kind of aircrafts and is quite honestly way overdue... Anyway tested it quick and it's definitely a step in the right direction.  :)

 

There are still some changes being considered.

However, at this moment we have very limited time and manpower for this area. So primarily we need to focus on a second iteration of our latest changes.

[twistking 204]

Hey, i'm not on dev-branch but on paper that all sound great.

 

i've got two suggestions:

 

you could use the implementation of "target lead indicator" to get a semi real simulation of the NLAW rocket launcher.

 

you would just lock the target and fire while you keep aim ON the target. the missile however would be directed to the "target lead position" (which is not visualised for the player). this would simulate the real world NLAW which does not actively locks on target but measured target movement prior to firing to intercept its way.

 

the current NLAW implementation is a rather sad thing to be honest! ;)

 

also please show some love to the titan seeking/locking as well. it does not need much. you could get rid of the white targeting square and really work with the interface of the titan for target lock confirmation. that would be super cool:)