Removal of the 2D editor - why - options are good, workflow slowdown for modders

[dragon01 902]

I don't mind seeing the old editor go, especially as it'll force modders to make stuff compatible with Eden (certain object categories, notably empty vehicles, are not available in Eden, which can cause addon object to be inaccessible).  :) Also, less problems for the devs, the old editor dates back to OFP, when the new one is, well, new, and so presumably better written (as it was developed "in one go" instead of iteratively over a few games). I could never figure out the old editor, but Eden has tutorials, easy 3D placement and an interface so transparent that I might actually get into AIII mission making. :) It could use even more tutorials (such as adding dialogue, basic scripting and other such useful bits), but what is there is enough for me to start thinking about a simple SP mission (if I could decide which mods to use, that is...).

 

I could praise the new editor all day, but the point is, this thing rocks. I see no reason why anyone would want the old one anymore.

[Larrow 2821]

Only looked at the new 3D editor a couple of times, a few things off of the top of my head that i dont like and some that have stopped me from flat out being able to use it...

no key bindings,

syncing (right click > connect > sync ),

no key bindings,

how do you stop random start up position? if im testing scripts and need a world loaded i like using Stratis air base as a flat empty area,

no key bindings,

so wish when you dragged a unit over a vehicle you got the choice of slot for them to be placed in rather than defaulting to the driver first, you can remove who ever you like

did i mention no keybindings,

Where is the support for script package writers, was hoping a new addon type/folder structure would have been thought about where you can drop script packages and via the use of function library features you could select a package and it would get copied to your active mission, no addon dependence problems, easy to use, no i dont undestand how to use problems as its drop and click, but i suppose we are left to implement this ourselves using third party dll's to copy files as there is no vanilla support for safely creating .sqf, .ext, .hpp files which could also open up other possibilities. /rant

 

I do like the idea of the editor but i agree for some things its a slow process, if you just need to drop a couple of units/objects/GLs and sync them for testing with a script the old 2D editor is a lot faster.

[moricky 211]

We're still evaluating what to do with the 2D editor. We'd prefer to offer only one tool which is officially supported, but I understand that many advanced users like you would want to retain access to the 2D editor. One of the options is to have it still available from the main menu, but only using some keyboard shortcut (similar to hove the old 3D editor prototype was accessed). A mod could even map it back to a button. What do you think about such approach?

[Rydygier 1309]

Sounds OK to me. Or eg. disabled by default option somewhere deep in advanced configuration options, that will give back some access button in the main menu. Whatever way for permanent re-enabling. Even, if 2D editor will be not supported anymore and stripped of exporting to pbo/publishing on Steam (cough) functionalities - still I'm fully OK with that. At least for me it's about testing scripts etc. as fast, as possible, not for mission creation by itself. 

[giallustio 770]

 not for mission creation by itself. 

The 2D is way better to plan a mission too and it's way faster to get an idea of what you've created.

[Rydygier 1309]

Does 3D editor provides any kind of 2D view? Never tried it so far. Such view, if done well, could be enough for such purposes, unless there is something about new editor, I'm unaware. Well, always welcome alternative is making new editor as good or better, than old one in every aspect. :) Whatever's possible, I believe, new editor will be continually developed and polished after first release. 

[Greenfist 1863]

Does 3D editor provides any kind of 2D view? Never tried it so far. Such view, if done well, could be enough for such purposes, unless there is something about new editor, I'm unaware. Well, always welcome alternative is making new editor as good or better, than old one in every aspect. :) Whatever's possible, I believe, new editor will be continually developed and polished after first release. 

Yes. Press M to switch between 3D and 2D. :)

[giallustio 770]

Scracth that, it seems almost the same. I've still to figure out how to sync, but maybe it's not in there yet

[moricky 211]

I recommend to check in-game tutorials, are major actions (and especially those which are different from the 2D editor) should be described there.

[giallustio 770]

I recommend to check in-game tutorials, are major actions (and especially those which are different from the 2D editor) should be described there.

 

I will! Thank you!

[Ranwer135 308]

Damn, I'm going to miss the 2D editor a lot. :cry2:

[MrSanchez 243]

We're still evaluating what to do with the 2D editor. We'd prefer to offer only one tool which is officially supported, but I understand that many advanced users like you would want to retain access to the 2D editor. One of the options is to have it still available from the main menu, but only using some keyboard shortcut (similar to hove the old 3D editor prototype was accessed). A mod could even map it back to a button. What do you think about such approach?

 

I'd like such an approach.

For making actual (non scripted) missions to play with friends, I'd definitely prefer the 3D editor.

 

However I also work on a heavily-scripted gamemode which requires a LOT of previewing, reloading, previewing, etc because I'm often working with description.exts and other dialog/UI related stuff. (I sometimes reload like 20 times in a hour).

For that I'd prefer the 2D editor as the time it takes to go from editor -> preview -> editor is noticeably less.

 

Besides, for heavily-scripted missions, the features of the 3D editor compared to the 2D editor are neglectable (e.g. my AIs are spawned by script, not placed on editor).

 

Kind regards,

Sanchez

[Greenfist 1863]

Did a quick test on editor speeds:

Steps: Empty world on main menu. Open the editor on Stratis. Place a unit. Preview. Go back. Open the Infantry showcase. Preview. Go back.

 

And my vote goes for keeping the old editor behind a secret key shortcut. (So that we can open it a year from now and wonder how the hell did we ever managed to get anything done with it. :icon_twisted: )

[hellfire257 3]

I'd prefer a hidden 2D editor as well. It is better for some tasks and is so quick for testing. Please keep it for power users - it's great for workflow.

[HeroesandvillainsOS 1504]

I haven't tried the new editor but I have to say I'd be really disappointed if you guys don't keep the 2D editor in its current state as an option.

The missions I "make" are all module, trigger and script based (ALiVE, Spookwarcom, Ravage) and are very dependent on 2D placement, quick debugging, quick previewing and basic syncing. Being forced into a 3D format just sounds really combersome. I really can only see even wanting it just for basic base building.

That's probably not the popular way of how most users want to interact with the editor but for me I'm nervous it will be more of a headache than what I could ever want or need.

I look forward to trying it but I am very very bummed the 2D editor isn't 100% planned on being left in place and in-tact.

[das attorney 858]

We're still evaluating what to do with the 2D editor. We'd prefer to offer only one tool which is officially supported, but I understand that many advanced users like you would want to retain access to the 2D editor. One of the options is to have it still available from the main menu, but only using some keyboard shortcut (similar to hove the old 3D editor prototype was accessed). A mod could even map it back to a button. What do you think about such approach?

 

 

Can we have modline parameter as well please?  "-2deditor" or somesuch.

 

99% of the ,time I only need 2D, so it would be nicer as a default, with also the option to switch via key combo as well.

[cosmic10r 2331]

Some of the things I do in the editor could take longer too. I just saw the rc branch go live so I am going to flip over to that tonight and spend some more time in eden and see if it is harder or not.

[chortles 263]

99% of the ,time I only need 2D, so it would be nicer as a default

I can't help but think that this (2D editor as a non-power-user-visible default) is mutually exclusive with "We'd prefer to offer only one tool which is officially supported" -- which seems to have no small part to do with why the designers would even consider deprecating the 2D editor in the first place -- unless what you meant was being able to launch Arma 3 via modline, be it from a shortcut or from the Launcher...

[das attorney 858]

I can't help but think that this (2D editor as a non-power-user-visible default) is mutually exclusive with "We'd prefer to offer only one tool which is officially supported" -- which seems to have no small part to do with why the designers would even consider deprecating the 2D editor in the first place -- unless what you meant was being able to launch Arma 3 via modline, be it from a shortcut or from the Launcher...

 

Hi man,

 

It's been a long day at work today and Mr Brain is working at 30%, so I'll break it down in case I sounded ambiguous   :)

 

 - I pretty much only ever use 2D editor

 - I'd like to go into it by default

 - I normally launch game by .bat file

 - Command line param would be ideal

 

:)

[chortles 263]

- I pretty much only ever use 2D editor

 - I'd like to go into it by default

 - I normally launch game by .bat file

 - Command line param would be ideal

About what I was thinking you meant then, that you be able to launch the game with the 2D editor enabled even if you had to make that extra effort (even so little as writing a batch file or modline) instead of it being visible by default (see what I said about Moricky's line)... although it makes me think of an inversion of the former relationship between the "old" hidden 3D editor and the 2D editor. :P

[cosmic10r 2331]

Well i just had a chance to try a few of the things I do in the editor.

 

I have to say. With Map mode it is essentially the 2d editor.

I still get that same view I prefer for certain things with the top down topography with the textures off.

 

Maybe it might be helpful for some to launch into map mode directly but basically I personally likely won't even use old 2d anymore and just use map mode from eden because you basically have the best of both worlds. And even I am surprised by that. Some of the things in Eden are just really great. Very impressed.

[I give up 152]

Nah, 2D editor will not be removed. I dont believe in it.

3D editor as the name indicates is 3D, so is like we are in game, means that our machine is working at full speed (at least mine is and eating 1000W).

I don't believe there is the intention to force people, who spend hours in editor (like me), having the machine acting as if we are in game. Just does not make sense. Editor as the name indicates is for edting, not some tool for renderization.

If that is true, it means the death of editor (and editing) for me.

Btw, 3D editor is great and very usefull, but is not a substitute for 2D editor.

[cosmic10r 2331]

How are you measuring that?

 

my cpu is operating at 16-19% in both editors

Ram use is 24% in 2d and 32% in 3d? Im only running 16gb now.

 

Load looked the same and temps looked the same.

I just played the game. It seems to me based on my tests that the 2d editor was rendering a lot more of the game then it showed.

[Ranwer135 308]

Honestly, the 2D editor is way better because it doesn't take hits from low FPS. But having a slow computer in the 3D editor (don't blame me for it, because I'm stuck with it), probably might ruin my hobby to make missions.

[andersson 285]

I have a laptop I travel with and use to make missions. I can barely test play the missions on ugliest settings but it works fine for 2d editor and scripting. If forced to 3d editor I doubt I can do that anymore, atleast not without lag and frustration.