VBS2/3 Discussion thread - the one and only

[scrim 1]

the next version of ACRE we will have accurate simulations of the actual radio equipment used by the US Military as well as other international forces, including simulation of COMSEC/Frequency Hopping, external equipment such as fill devices and external crypto gear, loud speakers, different antennas and other devices. Users will be able to train on the simulated radios as if they were the real thing.

I am at your command; I will kill your enemies for you :p

[bushlurker 46]

Some BBC footage of the recent UK Army Urban Warrior 5 exercise...

...They all seem pretty keen on console controllers...

B

Edited February 1, 2013 by Bushlurker

[scrim 1]

Well, as they said the younger generation ought to be used to it, and I'd guess more people are familiar with a 360 controller than Arma.

[OChristie 0]

I think the MoD needs to upgrade their systems! Looks like it went well for them! Congrats!!

[simon1279 52]

Lets say I wanted to train you on how to drive in a line formation an keeping safe distance from other vehicles in that formation. Do you think I would really care about giving you this super realistic scenic route so you can smile an be happy while I train you on proper vehicle procedures. Does that really help you learn the task at hand? That versus a flat area nothing but a desert map an a road. Do you see the point im trying to make? Most that visual shit is not needed an is considered a distraction to the trainee, Anyone would say that the core functionality of what ever is being trained for is needed anything more is just a bonus. Saying they don't look realistic would be like saying a training manual isn't to realistic cause it doesn't have any real colored pictures in it.

nothing else to say just read all over the internet what is this, and why this has been made, and when it will officially deployed for US army training

Edited February 11, 2013 by Simon1279

[dm 9]

All I see is the same old PR material...

Got any links to articles with actual information about deployment dates and fielding?

Or was it just an excuse to spam the RTI video in here?

[simon1279 52]

All I see is the same old PR material...

Got any links to articles with actual information about deployment dates and fielding?

Or was it just an excuse to spam the RTI video in here?

No spam just an answer and a personal opinion on what NZXSHADOWS wrote, because good graphics are important for training because more immersion and comparing to real your brain with a photoreal graphic elaborates better the situation

[metalcraze 290]

If good graphics are so important and "immersion" is not just a marketing buzzword for gamers why army chose VBS2 and not Crysis for training?

Last time I've checked there was so much hype going on about how DSTS will use RTI and... you will never guess what happened

[froggyluv 2136]

Well I hate to say it again but even taking graphics completely out of the equation - VBS2 still has a long way to go in making Infantry firefights play out in any sort of realistic way. The AI is still Arma 1(actually Arma 1.5 as they do lean) level and I just can't see why thats acceptable to a full blown military training simulator. For instance if using the 3d editor (really great feature) you place enemies in balconies of towns and send Blufor in -the enemies will literally just lay prone up there ad infinitum.....thats madness and I can see why soldiers just don't find it realistic or *gulp* fun in a firefight situation. Also commanding AI I'll often get the "Can't get there" in Desert terrain with no seemingly obvious reason why not. Xaitment either has not been implemented or quite frankly just doesn't live up to expectations. Ai civilians are often caught doing random "climb" animations in the middle of a market for no apparent reason -looks oddly creepy when their wearing full body burka. Sorry but many things outside of graphics just don't lend themselves well to believable environment.

Arma 2 modded firefights are vastly superior in AI behaviour and Im just not sure why they don't transplant the whole kit and kabootle with these major contracts on the line.

[metalcraze 290]

vbs2

from 2014 VBS2 will be out of US army and realtime immersive will replace vbs2, real time immersive has been developed exclusively for US army and it will never have a PE license, don't you see lastly bohemia is producing much more games instead of just arma because the huge piece of vbs2 is over, because army wants also good graphics, and real time immersive is running on the same crysis engine

Are you Crytek's marketing plant?

I'm pretty sure you can state your opinion - if this is yours of course - outside PMs.

[simon1279 52]

Are you Crytek's marketing plant?

I'm pretty sure you can state your opinion - if this is yours of course - outside PMs.

no i'm a NCO of the Italian army Carabinieri's (MP), working in a NATO office,

Edited February 12, 2013 by Simon1279

[Dwarden 1125]

then you need to realize that sometimes (well in fact quite often) training tools need to be more crude and useful for training than fancy

there were and are studies which proved this more than once

also pre-rendered videos trying represent some product features are nice but if you ever worked undersea I can assure you that such clear vision isn't possible even in ocean with most clean water ...

so in fact, that's incorrect representation of state for something what shall be so precise ;)

[simon1279 52]

then you need to realize that sometimes (well in fact quite often) training tools need to be more crude and useful for training than fancy

there were and are studies which proved this more than once

also pre-rendered videos trying represent some product features are nice but if you ever worked undersea I can assure you that such clear vision isn't possible even in ocean with most clean water ...

so in fact, that's incorrect representation of state for something what shall be so precise ;)

Yes underwater is way better in VBS2, and overall animations too, don't know about balistics, i've never tried RTI, i've just seen a full presentation of it, technically VBS2 is a step forward, but i also know with the overall sim. look you can do better than now, i think also VBS2 doesn't need arma3 graphics, but for the fact graphics aren't important i believe this is not completely true, it's not the main task for a training sim, but it can be usefull, due to brain immersion and brain training, even if i am, i don't speak for PE users but for the main target of this training simulator

[metalcraze 290]

RV engine can do as much graphical detail as the content designer puts there. There's nothing stopping any map from looking like Limnos - in fact there are screenshots of Limnos assets running in VBS2 on BISim facebook.

I think I've read somewhere that US army gives devs 3 months (or something) to develop what content army orders. 3 months to make a lush looking 20x20 km map?

There's a reason why RTI is still nothing but a bunch of CoDesque videos and zero videos showing actual real world usage. It takes years developing high quality content. Would anyone wait for that?

[Vandrel 10]

RV engine can do as much graphical detail as the content designer puts there. There's nothing stopping any map from looking like Limnos - in fact there are screenshots of Limnos assets running in VBS2 on BISim facebook.

I think I've read somewhere that US army gives devs 3 months (or something) to develop what content army orders. 3 months to make a lush looking 20x20 km map?

There's a reason why RTI is still nothing but a bunch of CoDesque videos and zero videos showing actual real world usage. It takes years developing high quality content. Would anyone wait for that?

You're spot on. All things aside, the military (in general) wants to rapidly create and conduct training. I've used both tool sets, BI and Cry, and I can tell you that I spent far less time creating a full A-Z real world location in VBS2 then I have in CE3.

CryEngine3 Dev Kit is nice, the engine is nice, graphics are nice, BUT it's not nearly as drag/drop as it's advertised to be. You're never going to see CryEngine3 Dev Kit sitting at a battle sim center or simulation support center where prior military contractors are developing content to conduct training, period. What you will see, now (because I have been there and done that), is prior military contractors sitting at their battle sim centers and sim support centers developing content with the VBS2 Developer Suite to use in training.

CryEngine3 Dev Kit doesn't work well with GIS data. Out of the box it only supports .raw elevation data and good luck importing converted GIS to .raw data.

Fidelity is all about time. Typically a training audience could care less about what something looks like, given that the functionality is there and working. Does a squad leader need to see a mirror image of a real life HMMWV blown up by an IED in order to make a tactical decision? No. I'm not saying there's no place for CE3 fidelity, because there will always be a demand for something new a shiny, but to think that sim centers are going to be the ones expected to do the development is crazy. Units want "here and now" not "see ya in 10 months" once you figure it out.

RTV is great but I've been to the last 2 I/ITSEC shows and seen their booth, no one's interested. Videos only work for so long when you have hardly any content to backup your product.

Just my 2 cents after working at a sim center for 2 1/2 years for the USMC :)

[EDcase 87]

I expect performance is more important than graphics bling as well.

Quite a few images I've seen of military usage shows them running on laptops so performance must be a major consideration.

[[aps]gnat 28]

Nice info Vandrel

[OChristie 0]

Unfortunately, this very catchy song has reached us in the Serious Games world.

[Smurf 12]

Finally!

Got to love those heads floating around :cool:

[Aardman55 10]

Hello first!

So, after some time, ArmA 2 has become a little boring to me from the combat aspects (ejecting out of helicopters that are 200km up the sky and on fullspeed and flying over ramps and smashing soldiers is still fun, though.)

Also sorry if this is the wrong topic / forum / site.

Now, after some time of looking at all kinds of stuff from VBS2, scripting info, wiki sites, youtube vids etc.. I decided to get some money and buy a SEAT Academic liscense.

Im not searching for opinions, Im not a fan of mp since I mostly spawn in when most of the battle is done and I dont care if its hard or such im ready to go through the pain whatever it shall be.

So, first off, can a normal civilian (and I mean normal, someone whos spends his time buying food and drinks, games, playing computer games like hl2 payday the heist etc, your average dude.) buy the academic lisence? I saw many normal civies on youtube playing it and saying they've got a academic liscene but I need to be sure.

Also, I'm in germany right now, and since its 500 dollars in the store, can I buy it for 382 euros (atleast thats what it shows as of 16th march), or do I HAVE to pay it in dollars, and am I unable to pay with euros?

Then, when I buy it, do I instantly have it and does it take the money from my bank account / paypal or can I chose what payment method I want, and does it get shipped as a cd or can I instadownload it?

Then, are Arma 1 and 2 addons compatible with vbs2? I mean like can you use units maps modules scripts etc from arma 1 and 2 and use them in vbs2?

And lastly, does a academic license differ from a normal seat one, or is it just because the military companys are forced to pay more?

Sorry for the bad english!

[Vandrel 10]

Now, after some time of looking at all kinds of stuff from VBS2, scripting info, wiki sites, youtube vids etc.. I decided to get some money and buy a SEAT Academic liscense.

Im not searching for opinions, Im not a fan of mp since I mostly spawn in when most of the battle is done and I dont care if its hard or such im ready to go through the pain whatever it shall be.

Unless you're a university or some sort of funded R&D agency, Academic won't be available to you.

So, first off, can a normal civilian (and I mean normal, someone whos spends his time buying food and drinks, games, playing computer games like hl2 payday the heist etc, your average dude.) buy the academic lisence? I saw many normal civies on youtube playing it and saying they've got a academic liscene but I need to be sure.

As stated above, you'd be purchasing a PE (Personal Edition) license of VBS2, not Academic. Personal Edition is available to anyone located within a white listed country that pays the listed fee for the license. The PE license is restricted for personal use only by EULA and cannot be used for any form of commercial work.

Also, I'm in germany right now, and since its 500 dollars in the store, can I buy it for 382 euros (atleast thats what it shows as of 16th march), or do I HAVE to pay it in dollars, and am I unable to pay with euros?

Payment is made in whatever currency is listed on the quote you receive from Sales. This will typically be localized.

Then, when I buy it, do I instantly have it and does it take the money from my bank account / paypal or can I chose what payment method I want, and does it get shipped as a cd or can I instadownload it?

PE orders are shipped as soon as payment is made and the invoice is sent over to my department, Support. As soon as we receive the invoice we'll package everything up and drop it in the mail. You will not be able to use VBS2 until the package arrives with the encryption dongle that contains your license. The dongle must be inserted in your PC in order for VBS2 to run.

Then, are Arma 1 and 2 addons compatible with vbs2? I mean like can you use units maps modules scripts etc from arma 1 and 2 and use them in vbs2?

In short, no. Some things can be carried over but in most cases you will need to repack addons, change file paths, etc. Also, be sure to check the EULA's and/or author licenses to ensure you have permission before attempting to port.

And lastly, does a academic license differ from a normal seat one, or is it just because the military companys are forced to pay more?

PE editions lack content available to commercial and enterprise customers. The primary differences are within the EULA, where as PE editions are not authorized to create content for commercial purposes (ie: selling or paid development).

Sorry for the bad english!

No worries :)

[Willytheshoe 1]

plz delete

[papanowel 120]

Vandrel, do you have any clue about an upcoming hotfix for the PE version of VBS2?

Thanks

[Vandrel 10]

We're expecting to release a new version of the Developer Suite shortly once it's finished with QA. This will address the buldozer issue.

Was there something else you're looking for a fix on?

[papanowel 120]

Thanks for the answer.

The track-ir issue and the "jump off" action are not working right now. Plus a few other small fix.