Vehicle handling (dev branch)

[pettka 694]

Current setup of most cars should not block wheels while braking, but should block them while using handbrake. Main reason for additional grip is not in the slopes (that's kind of collateral as it is hard to perceive the slope in game) but because of AI not able to handle cars with blocked wheels. And AI doesn't use handbrake :icon_twisted:

[x3kj 1247]

So it's true that there is intentionally increased grip?

Blocking of wheels and sliding for a free spinning wheel (in both axis - traveldirection and sideways) are two different things however, so increasing ground friction just for not blocking doesnt make sense to me. Braking normally you wouldn't want wheel blocking. Modern verhicles have ABS to prevent blocking during braking (for optimum stopping distance) - and this can be set by defining brake torque for the wheels lower, instead of increasing friction. It would increases the distance a bit but that's about it. I don't remember the AI driving so aggressively that i would imagine them to drift alot if the friction was lower. They usually slow down before they do hard turns. And very slight amount of drift you would experience in normal offroad use (less then maybe 10° deviation) shouldn't be that hard i imagine. They have their planned course, if their actual driving direction deviates too much from course - slow down and correct course.

So i don't see a justifiable reason why friction should be increased.?

Increasing friction has alot of bad consequences. Any crude "hack" to fix something in a physical environment will only lead to more problems, in this case beeing able to climb too steep climb angles, high propability of rollover, "on rail" vehicle feeling and possibly (not 100% sure) bad effects on tank turning, because to be able to turn properly, the tanks "wheels" need to slip but can't -> more resistance for the engine -> increased problems with the clutch -> more stuttering during turns

Edited July 16, 2015 by X3KJ

[-=seany=- 5]

• 
  

• Fixed: CSAT technicians have adjusted BTR-K Kamysh to prevent rolling even at extremely high speeds (http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=24090)
  

Keep 'em coming :D . Not a bug I was aware of, but any fixes to do with vehicles I am very happy to see.

Thanks.

[krycek 349]

And AI doesn't use handbrake :icon_twisted:

I can already imagine what goes into their little brains "who needs handbrake,thats how we roll".

You can also add "here be big tree/stone/wall/house/godzilla we hit,we reverse,we smash,we reverse....aww we broke za wheelz".:biggrin:

[bad benson 1733]

Current setup of most cars should not block wheels while braking, but should block them while using handbrake.

that's sounds right to me. i guess the increased grip is the factor that makes it look weird then. although i saw some drifting video with a modded car which looked different. they probably changed something in another place to compensate for increased grip though.

Main reason for additional grip is not in the slopes (that's kind of collateral as it is hard to perceive the slope in game) but because of AI not able to handle cars with blocked wheels. And AI doesn't use handbrake :icon_twisted:

i don't quite get this part though. could you explain a little more?

wouldn't it be possible to help th AI with some stuff instead of increasing grip unrealistically globally? kind of sad to have to compromise like that just for the AI especially since most people probably avoid letting AI do complicated driving tasks.

[DancZer 65]

wouldn't it be possible to help th AI with some stuff instead of increasing grip unrealistically globally?

Like: Let them slowing down if the vehicle drifting.

Btw, are there features like ABS, ESP implemented? Are those switchable? Could we have a script commands for them like setABSEnabled, setESPEnabled or something like this?!

[breech99 47]

Bohemia, I hope you can change the helicopters to add in a damage model rather than to have a Hit point system, then when low hp it simply blows up. It's terrible and it needs a damage model system with break off damage points going from outer to inner core system. Helicopters can blow up if hit with missiles but in rl, they do not blow up after coming to a stop on landing and even blow up from simple tip overs and other wing dings, light crashes, forced landings. Have damage transfer inward to the center and have parts detach like you are doing now with the main rotorhead and tail, but go one step further and actually implement a damage system. It's been done with mods, so it is very possible. Things need to be adjusted and some other system for damage would be appreciated. The ghosthawks for example can survive a lot more punishment than currently in game. The system you have for damage is total unbelievable crap and is no where close to anything remotely real.

[silentghoust 132]

I would like to add a less known issue with the vehicles.

Aside from the driving with AI. You cannot in any way properly command a tank platoon of AI.

In Arma 2, AI tanks would match your speed, and keep a strict formation. As long as you managed your formations right, they generally will keep pace with you and stay at proper distances.

In Arma 3, the AI seem to act more like they are still on foot. If you suddenly stop your vehicle, the AI will blow several 100m past you before reversing to return to formation, this causes massive issues trying to convoy as the AI seems to not brake in time. This also makes it so you can't do proper tank tactics and formations.

A good example of seeing the AI acting strangely is by ordering them to relax. They will not only break formation, but will attempt to "wounder" even inside main battle tanks. I honestly feel this was simply a oversight in the AI programming rather then some major bug. I just wish it would get fixed.

Edited July 18, 2015 by silentghoust

[x3kj 1247]

Like: Let them slowing down if the vehicle drifting.

Btw, are there features like ABS, ESP implemented? Are those switchable? Could we have a script commands for them like setABSEnabled, setESPEnabled or something like this?!

No it's not implemented, and i don't think this would be a worthwile addition... with the fine tuning of the cars at this state it wouldn't offer any difference i feel. A better addition would be manual gear changes, (besides the solved clutch problem obviously), to get around the kinks of the auto gearbox (continuous up and downshifting at hills for example). This function already exists, but there are simply no user controlls for it, at least according to a dev, don't remember who.

I drove around with the Offroad a bit, and at high speeds (80+) it drifts a little bit. I can't comment on how realistic the way it does it is, no experience with that. Here is the curious thing though: If you use the normal brake you have a pretty long brake distance. If you use the handbrake, you mostly won't slip - you will simply stop faster. Only when you break from high speed down to stop, you will get slipping wheels, but during that it will only slip at the end, short before you stop.

Now, keep in mind that the wheels you visually see on the model are not 100% representative of the actual physx wheels, so it's not possible to tell exactly what's happening.

Using the handbrake doesn't allow you to drift, it will simply slow you down really fast.

[alganthe 74]

The abnormally high friction explain the tendency of vehicles with a very high mass and very low mass to flip at high speeds, that's a shame that those measures had to be taken for the AI.

[oukej 2911]

I will hijack this thread for gathering feedback about small tweak to vehicle handling -

24-07-2015

Added: PlayerSteeringCoefficients configuration for basic vehicle types (adjusting sensitivity and linearity of steering)

Try out some vehicles and let us know what you think about it.

[St. Jimmy 272]

I will hijack this thread for gathering feedback about small tweak to vehicle handling -

Try out some vehicles and let us know what you think about it.

Interesting. Can you say more what those vehicle types are so is it planes, helicopters, cars, tracked and wheeled or something more depth or generalization in the types? Or is it for ground only?

[oukej 2911]

Only ground, wheeled (cars, quadbikes, karts, trucks, wheeled APCs).

Only affects digital input (keyboard).

[x3kj 1247]

The steering with keyboard is much more responsive now, makes the SUV alot more usable and the Offroad pretty nice. Before that (i tested before and after the update) you where not really able to go fast, because a) steering was really unresponsive (the dude did not turn the steering wheel quickly enough), and braking distance is really long.

APC's are the most steerable, you can go drive through every serpentine and go 100kph (only downhill ofcourse)

For a quick downward dash you can try the dirt road downward from hill agia stemma to topolia, until you are on the tarmac road that leads to the high way. Try hard to stay on the road.

For the long test drive i went from syrta to the coast between both windturbine parks and back again (although with apc's/mrap you might wanna skip the last parts of each direction, goes uphill).

I tested Marid, Gorgon, Strider, Offroad and SUV.

If you use the handbreak on the SUV you can slide. But you can under no circumstance slide during normal drive, it will flip over during hard turns instead. The Offroad is different, it slides a little (sometimes you have to countersteer, which is fun) but it doesnt slide at all when the handbreak is pulled. Offroad is the most fun to drive out of the non armored section... Hatchback sport is just terrible, understeers alot.

It feels to me as if there is basically no difference in surface properties - doesn't matter if tarmac, gravel or loose sand. For tarmac the high friction is kinda OK i guess, but for gravel, sand and dirt it's out of place.

Edited July 24, 2015 by X3KJ

[R3vo 2654]

Yep, steering response is way better now, I only hoped there would be a slider in the controls menu, so everyone can adjust it oneself.

[.kju 3245]

was anything improved by APEX or patches in the meantime? can someone please give an specific/detailed update on the situation please

[Ltf 381]

was anything improved by APEX or patches in the meantime? can someone please give an specific/detailed update on the situation please

I don't think anything improved with dlc. BI just made apex vehicles more powerful instead of improving the driving mechanics. Old ground vehicles are still same.

[RealPanzer123 4]

Hello,

 

I am a bit of a tank combat buff and really only use arma as a tank sim.

 

One thing I would like to see implemented is a proper tank tactics AI logic.

 

At the moment a common  AI tactic is to race away from the enemy with the tank turret facing backwards while firing. No trained tanker would ever knowingly expose his side or rear armour to enemy fire.

 

The proper tactic is to face the enemy at an angle to improve deflection chance and also to expose more armour thickness to the enemy shot (like slicing a sausage at a slant rather than at 90 degrees to get a larger oblong slice), while moving position rolling forwards and backwards with the front armour always facing the enemy.

 

Formation keeping and facing are also important and have been covered in other posts in this thread and needs work.

 

It is not uncommon for an MBT to flip and land upside down on its turret, surely this could be fixed for tanks with a no flip code? Other vehicles flipping over under extreme conditions I can understand but not an MBT, they are too heavy and the centre of gravity is too low. This problem existed in Arma2 as well and was not solved there either so much be a hard one.

 

Still a great game and the TINA principle applies (There Is No Alternative) except for Armoured Beasts Pro but there the landscape detailing is so very bad.

 

Thanks

 

Alan

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

The jet-ski is still very very basic and horrible to control. Doesn't feel like a jet-ski, and i'm been on one before, they jump when going super fast, but when they're going a moderate speed, they are actually a bit smooth, in turning as well, except of course when you whip it. They're actually quite slow in game as well. Honestly should be the fastest water vehicle in the game, but currently the RHIB is, clocking in at 96-95. I know for a fact Jetski's can go up to 128km/h. 

[das attorney 858]

As well, the jetski should totally have ffv for the passenger.

 

And where are the civ motorbikes (or any motorbikes for that matter)?  Tanoa is the kind of place you would expect to see them in droves.