End Game MP Mode - Feedback

[neokika 62]

Had a quick session on the official End Game server just now and the lack of restart or common knowledge of the '#vote restart' code is a real problem.

Trying to get people to do it is a pain, can we please get some pop up info with the command on it for peoples information.

Also lowering the number of votes-for-effect would help considerably.

Right now we get one game then everyone leaves because there's one player sitting on the server doing nothing.

Thanks

E

Interesting, this should not be the case. Will take a look, thank you for letting us know.

;)

[Undeceived 392]

Yeah, I agree with that, had many great sessions with good (random formed) teams, but due to the restart problem almost everyone disconnects to find another server with the mission running.

By the way, BIS, is it possible to disable these group leader's automatic "X, get back to formation!" commands? This is pretty annoying and especially disturbing, when you want to stay undetected in close quarter combat. As leader I even commanded "All, stealth!", in order to not shout, but in general I want my character to speak only when I really want to command something.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Undeceived

[SageNTitled 25]

Yeah, I agree with that, had many great sessions with good (random formed) teams, but due to the restart problem almost everyone disconnects to find another server with the mission running.

By the way, BIS, is it possible to disable these group leader's automatic "X, get back to formation!" commands? This is pretty annoying and especially disturbing, when you want to stay undetected in close quarter combat. As leader I even commanded "All, stealth!", in order to not shout, but in general I want my character to speak only when I really want to command something.

+1 needed option.

[Electricleash 133]

Interesting, this should not be the case. Will take a look, thank you for letting us know.

Much appreciated! :) Otherwise great! other than having my ass handed to me on a plate... man I'm out of practice in PVP!

E

[evromalarkey 150]

I really like the new group management. Would be possible to make module for that?

One question, is the actual groupID changed when I rename the group? That is something what I would really like to see.

Anyway, good work guys!

[RSF TheCapulet 59]

After dying, Under higher lag situations, you can shoot enemies between when you die and when the script kicks in and incapacitates you. This has led to a lot of war crimes in End Game. You can deploy and blow mines while incapacitated. You can continue capturing an objective while incapacitated. You can revive people through walls, doors, etc. Group menu duplicates members occasionally, but will also occasionally not show a player in the world that shows up fine in the group menu. Cannot remove NVG, as it is not in the arsenal. After removal, saved loadouts using NVGs are no longer usable. When the server is running CBA, status bars such as the intel upload bar will continue past 100%. Will continue this after another night of playing. Server has been full every night since patch release. Thanks BIS, having a great time.

Edit: Groups menu resets each time someone joins the group. This makes early game group manipulation nearly impossible early game unless you're running a small group.

Edited April 12, 2015 by TheCapulet

[Aptann 10]

My fps starts dropping below 20 after the FOB has been established and stays there until the game is over. I played with a group of four who all experienced the same issue. We tried various servers, including the official ones.

Since it's performance related, here's the specs:

i7-3930k clocked @ 4.0GHz

GTX 980 w/ driver 347.90

8GB DDR3

Win 8.1

[EagleByte 40]

We are having an issue with hosting this mission on our dedicated server. Upon completion of a round, players are returned to the lobby and then when they try to join the next round it says defeat. The server then needs to be restarted. (requiring an admin to be present all the time)

[Sari 18]

When I was running the dev branch server I set the voting threshold very low and setup BEC with the scheduler running the following message every 5 mins:

"At the end of the mission please restart by voting (type '#vote restart' in the chat), as it doesn't appear to end by itself."

People eventually got the message...

[Fushko 59]

This MP game mode is good and you should feel good. Super fun with no boring moments in-between.

Few bugs:

-Objective E (if I recall correctly), where you have to retrieve intel from the officer, has no officer in the compound. Me and my squadmates have searched the area in every possible way, but we've had no luck in finding the intel.

-There's a chance of cars spawning on top of each other it seems. This happened next to the NATO FOB: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=424135516

-Sometimes there's a chance of intel failing to download, with the progress bar being stuck until you respawn: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=424135857 (you can clearly see the progress bar even though I was far away from the objective A)

-When incapacitated, you can move the camera freely, allowing you to see the insides of your neck. Very immersion breaking.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=424146367

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=424146238

In addition, there could also be some sort of subtle blur/red out effect, having super clear vision when you're wounded on the ground looks weird.

[lingus 10]

After a full day of running this on The Medic Station dedicated servers, I had the following observations:

Group Management and Identification

The idea of forming and disbanding groups in a given location, and tasking separate teams for various objectives is brilliant!

However, I fear the only reason people joined a group was to distinguish who was Friend or Foe!

Since there were no names visible when aiming at a character, anyone outside a Group was often mistakenly team killed. I think that there should be distinct differences in the Uniforms to distinguish between OPFOR, BLUFOR and Common Enemy AI, ---perhaps Tan, Green, and Black? An awful lot said they had trouble seeing the difference. Also, bearing in mind that a large percentage of men are colorblind, there should be some differences in silhouette.

Ammo Box

After saving some loadouts, once a new match started the saved loadouts were visible but unavailable at the box, but did notice that a couple of my saved fits were availble to load on the dead bodies! Because of the fluid nature of spawns and groups, I do not agree with a previous player that there should be any class restrictions on gear.

Spawn Points

On the respawn map, the spawn points don't always correlate to the names of the spawns, particularly the FOB during the Intel stage.

Timer for competitive match play

Games can be over rather quickly, or they can drag on indefinitely when Schematics are turned over again and again.

For competitive best of five series for ladders or scrimmages, there should be a server set Timer with the possibility of a match ending in a Draw.

Apologies, if any of these issues are already in the works.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Lingus

[neokika 62]

There was a problem with the mission not ending correctly on the server, we are now trying to get the hotfix to the stable branch.

[Electricleash 133]

When I was running the dev branch server I set the voting threshold very low and setup BEC with the scheduler running the following message every 5 mins:

"At the end of the mission please restart by voting (type '#vote restart' in the chat), as it doesn't appear to end by itself."

People eventually got the message...

This is pretty much what's needed, but with a locality translation.

[RSF TheCapulet 59]

This is pretty much what's needed, but with a locality translation.

The problem is that we're now dealing with public players rather than dev branch players. It's an entirely different audience. Most pub players at this point log out at mach end, just migrating from one server to the next, without waiting to see if it even resets now. They genuinely don't give a fuck, and that's if they know what the hell the commands are or mean in the first place. I told one of my clan mates who has been playing Arma 3 since release, and the only thing I could get from him on restarting the server was, "I hate learning new things. If it ends, I'll just follow them to another server. Fuck it." This seems to be the sentiment of most pub players. Nobody gets it or nobody wants to.

[--mastermind-- 10]

i found this information:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?189495-Marksmen-MP-Mode-%28Alpha%29-Feedback&p=2903097&viewfull=1#post2903097

on the dynamic groups. but i wasnt clear on where to call on this information? are the two top lines independant scripts? but do i call those scripts in the main mission init? i guess i understand to a point but am lost in how about i call those commands in the proper place?

[lev 21]

So I've been furiously playing the new Endgame mode since its release and here's my thoughts and feedback on it.

First off, I'd like to congratulate BI on what I consider to be their best competitive multiplayer mode yet. Its a ton of fun and gives the best out of the box tactical/team work experience I've had with stock Arma.

Now for the feedback. A lot of this feedback can be chalked up to differences in opinion regarding game design and what fun means so please take it with a grain of salt. Some feedback isn't necessarily about the Endgame mode itself but impacts it and may be considered for an update in general or at least with regards to Endgame.

1. Carrier marker - this is probably the weakest aspect of the mode. Because the carrier marker is extremely accurate and globally visible, it limits the capabilities of the attacking team and adversely affects the quality of play. The precise and real time information makes it a lot easier for a defending team to neutralize an attack and also leaves no uncertainty which removes the need for things like recon and having a defensive net and instead promotes an almost single minded deatchmatch like siege on the schematic.

My suggestion for this is to have a globally visible marker that is only accurate to within 50m meters of the location of the schematic and only updates every 15 seconds. This should apply to both the map marker as well as the visible marker. My intent for this change to promote more tactical play by allowing both teams some breathing room.

One thing to consider is that the current implementation is good for UI/UX reasons because it makes it very clear to all players (especially new ones) that the schematic is an important objective. The suggestion I gave may introduce some confusion to newer players as they might run to the marker only find nothing there. It also makes it less clear who the schematic carrier is so something else might be needed to indicate that an enemy player you are looking at is indeed carrying the schematic.

2. Teammate markers - I think this needs to change from only group markers to two kinds: in group markers, and on team markers. Anyone in your group should get the current style of marker and anyone on your team but not in your group should get a secondary fainter marker. This would reduce the amount of friendly fire as well as increase team work since its easier to see where people on your team are.

3. Loadouts - the current system needs some limitations otherwise there is a potential for a lot of spam. Right now no matter the class you select, you can choose pretty much any weapon that another class has access to. So you can be a medic running around with a marksmen rifle while carrying an AT launcher and some mines. It also reduces the need for teamwork if one person can serve multiple roles.

My suggestion is to allow all classes to have access to the basic rifle and the carbine version of it but limit certain weapons to specific classes. For instance only marksmen can get access to marksmen rifles, only machine gunners get access to machine guns, only the AT soldier gets access to the AT launcher, and so on. In addition, I think the current rifleman class should be replaced by the combat engineer who should be the only soldier to get access to mines and tool kits (for repair and mine removal). This will limit some of the mine spam that I've witnessed.

The main issue I have with my own suggestion is that it potentially limits the number of play styles. For instance what if a team wanted to run 4 machinegunners rather than the 2 currently available slots? Or what if someone slots a role that they don't know how to serve and now the team does not have the capability to supplement that role? Other difficulties would be logistical and technical ones like what happens if you pick up a dead teammate's weapon? Would it be counter to the class system if you allow that or could it be abused to allow people to get access to a restricted weapon anyway? I'm not sure what BI's philosophy is around this mode and how it should be adjusted. My personal thought is that these limitations would benefit the mode since the limited roles would encourage teamwork over solo-ing and prevent spam of explosives.

4. Respawn zones - this is actually a couple of issues combined into one topic. Firstly, I'm gonna start with some bugs/improvements. I think some clarification is needed when it comes to the naming of the zones. For instance the FOB respawn zone is not actually the FOB but a different area (not sure if this was a bug or intentional). Another quality of life improvement would be to show the carrier's position and status of zones on the respawn map so you can make a more informed decision about where to spawn.

Next, I'm gonna discuss the placement of respawn zones. While I like how the current respawn zone placement allows players to quickly get into the action, it does need a bit of tweaking to feel better. Right now as you assault an intel download point, it kind of feels like a team deathmatch since several of the respawn points are placed so close to their download locations that even if you wipe out a squad of enemies they can get back in the action in less than a minute. A minute is not that much time especially with the uncertainty of how safe a zone is.

Along the same lines, another thing that I want to discuss is an alternative proposal: the complete removal of the existing respawn zones (near the intel zones) and the ability to respawn onto a teammate. What I am proposing is having additional optional FOB/s that allow you to forward spawn closer to the various objectives and that come with a set of vehicles to help you get there. These optional FOB's should be re-capturable so it can change hands for a team to get a strategic edge. The reason why I feel that this is superior to simply moving respawn zones furthur away is that it adds some predicatability and logic to where people are popping up. The current respawn system creates a lot of situations where players can feel like they've done a great job defending or attacking only to find more attackers/defenders popping in "magically". The other change to the respawn system I would make along with this is to respawn in 1 minute waves across all FOBs instead of 30s after death.

5. Randomization of the upload zones/pickup - I believe that the preset upload zones is kind of a weakness in the gameplay. This allows players who have experience with the mode to do things such as defensively mine up a zone from the very start of the game or preemptively setup a camping spot by the capture/defend zone before the schematic is even located. What this means from a gameplay perspective is that when I'm confident in my team's ability to retrieve the last required piece of intel, I would immediately proceed to the capture zone and setup to pick off incoming defenders. This can be an unfun experience for players who aren't aware that the upload zones stay static from match to match and aren't given a fair chance to defend since players like myself are already preparing for their arrival before they even know they need to be there. After playing some more and realizing that the pickup zone is consistent as well, I've seen players go so far as to camp the pickup zone to ambush the players coming to pick up the package. This isn't an inherently bad thing but because of the lack of randomization it is not because we had a scout detect the location and report it back or track the enemies there, but rather because we simply know and it is in our advantage to pre-camp it.

I think a simple fix would be to randomly choose which upload zone your team needs to go to between the harbor/hospital and introduce one or more pickup zones for the schematic.

I've made a map image to summarize some of these points.

http://i.imgur.com/AyzwFHe.jpg (211 kB)

[Variable 322]

Here's some feedback gathered during a CiA coop night (first time we don't play a no-respswn, none-coop mission in years!):

The mode desperately needs parameters. Time of day, respswn types (I'll get into it soon) and type of available weapons in the arsenal.

Respswn: I suggest to allow these options- no respswn. Respswn tickets. And respswn only in base.

As for weapons: I suggest to allow an option to include only short range optics, and maybe another option for no optics at all. Well, maybe even pistols only, that would make an awesome game :)

Edited April 21, 2015 by Variable

[Robalo 465]

I'm using revive in my scenario now, but the following doesn't seem to be working. I've put this into the description.ext.

reviveDelay = 40;
reviveForceRespawnDelay = 10;
reviveBleedOutDelay = 180;

It still runs the default settings when I'm starting the scenario in multiplayer. Have anyone been able to change the parameters successfully?

While trying to figure out why changing the above in description.ext has no effect found the issue using functions viewer. All the parameters are grabbed with similar (faulty) checks to this:

_cfg = missionConfigFile >> "reviveBleedOutDelay";
_time = if (isClass _cfg) then {getNumber _cfg} else {BIS_revive_reviveBleedOutDelayDefault};

Fix:

s/isClass/isNumber

Solution I came up with until this gets fixed was to add some code in init.sqf:

//BIS Revive
[] spawn {
waitUntil {!isNil "BIS_revive_initialized" && {BIS_revive_initialized}};
BIS_revive_reviveDelayDefault = 20;		// time (in seconds) that it takes to revive a unit
BIS_revive_reviveBleedOutDelayDefault = 600;	// time (in seconds) that it takes to bleed out
};

[RyanTurner 23]

I'm new to SQF Scripting i would love to learn to do it, but i don't know, it's anyway to get the End game's Intel Script and Downable Points?

[pete101 10]

Good work Robalo!

I was able to change my bleed out time using your code in the init. I cant get reviveForceRespawnDelay to work though. It appears none of the description.ext parameters work atm.

Hopefully the devs will fix this soon. :D Have you made a ticket? I would but you almost certainly know more about the problem and the fix than me!

---------- Post added at 21:43 ---------- Previous post was at 21:19 ----------

Yep - I've done more testing tonight and I cant get reviveForceRespawnDelay to change. I can get bleed out value to change with Robalo's workaround.

I've held back on creating a ticket as I know its not officially supported yet but it'd be nice to get an update sometime from Zipper5 on how your getting on!

Otherwise than that this is a GREAT step forward! The new groups system is working for me and is another great addition and is getting implemented in my missions soon!

[Robalo 465]

Good work Robalo!

I was able to change my bleed out time using your code in the init. I cant get reviveForceRespawnDelay to work though. It appears none of the description.ext parameters work atm.

Hopefully the devs will fix this soon. :D Have you made a ticket? I would but you almost certainly know more about the problem and the fix than me!

Too lazy to make ticket, plus it might be already fixed in dev :)

Until description.ext settings will work you can set these vars:

BIS_revive_reviveDelayDefault = 6; // Default time (in seconds) that it takes to revive a unit

BIS_revive_medikitMultiplier = 2; // Multiplier acting on revive time if the player has a medikit

BIS_revive_reviveForceRespawnDelayDefault = 3; // Default time (in seconds) that it takes to force respawn

BIS_revive_reviveBleedOutDelayDefault = 120; // Default time (in seconds) that it takes to bleed out

BIS_revive_reviveForceRespawnDelayDefault works but it's not what I hoped it would be. What it does is it forces you to hold spacebar for that amount of time to respawn. Wish it was some time that needs to pass before you can attempt to respawn.

Loving this revive system so far, only problem I have is being unable to select throwables after getting revived.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Robalo

[pete101 10]

Thanks again Robalo!! Going to get this in my missions now! I don'd mind how the ForceRespawnDelay works but I see your point.

I'm going to set it to a high number and people can only respawn if they REALLY REALLY want to lol.

[pete101 10]

Ticket created: http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=23944.

I've quoted your post Robalo, hope you don't mind.

:D

[Robalo 465]

Ticket created: http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=23944.

I've quoted your post Robalo, hope you don't mind.

:D

Thanks, added the fix to the ticket.

[onedigita 17]

I have a quesiton, I would like to use the revive system in a 1 life style tvt mission, and instead of having the respawn selection screen pop up I want you to spawn as bird so you can continue to watch the fight.

Ive tried this

respawn = 3;

respawnDelay = 15;

respawnTemplates[] = {"Revive", "Bird"};

no luck, it just randomly spawns me out in the middle of the water.