Weapon Resting & Deployment Feedback

[x3kj 1247]

Is there something i'm missing here? Because it looks as if it became worse in some cases then it was when i checked early on...

The weapon doesnt pivot around on its bipod legs... devbranch latest

Edited April 17, 2015 by Fennek

[CaptainObvious 95]

Is there something i'm missing here? Because it looks as if it became worse in some cases then it was when i checked early on...

http://abload.de/thumb/2015-04-17_0000418o4j.jpghttp://abload.de/thumb/2015-04-17_00005t3q8q.jpg

The weapon doesnt pivot around on its bipod legs... devbranch latest

Is it the same with all the weapons?

[x3kj 1247]

haven't tested all the weapons

[skyline 1]

I was so hyped about the bipods that I didn't see its flaws up until now.

I've gave up using the bipods. It's simple too hard to make they work where and when you need them to.

Ex: I'm on a hill, I have eyes on the enemy. Looking for a better stance, I deploy my bipod. Then, suddenly I'm aiming at the ground (5m in front of me), and then when I try to bring my aim up to hit the enemy, the bipod will simple undeploy.

Let me try to demonstrate it with my advanced MS Paint skills:

http://i.imgur.com/XAEVYJZ.jpg (124 kB)

Another problem: Bipods should be deployed horizontally. I know they will ignore the terrain angle some times. But IRL you can use swivels to adjust them.

The bipods seems to work great when deploying on windows and some square surfaces, like blocks / sandbags. But even then, they seem to undeploy after some time.

[Sterlingarcherz101 15]

Agreed when they do work, it's great But.. Stupid unsexy kinda butts.

Personally. Most times I deployed (because I have ultra grass) when the view sinks down I cant see anything anyway so have to undeploy. On rocks and other obsticals get you killed fidgeting about trying to get it to work.

I'm just really glad weapons resting wasn't removed as some asked ( apart from the Prone Invisible bi pod) I have gotten some good use. And have actually seen other players play more tactfully because of the feature.

Hoping an actual hight adjustment for bipods comes about instead of the intended automatic one in place.

[CaptainObvious 95]

Ex: I'm on a hill, I have eyes on the enemy. Looking for a better stance, I deploy my bipod. Then, suddenly I'm aiming at the ground (5m in front of me), and then when I try to bring my aim up to hit the enemy, the bipod will simple undeploy.

Let me try to demonstrate it with my advanced MS Paint skills:

http://i.imgur.com/XAEVYJZ.jpg (124 kB)

The buttstock can't of course dig into the ground, thus limiting the vertical aiming zone quite drastically, this is true IRL too.

I haven't experienced the bipods undeploy on their own, but only if I move my character or adjust my stance.

[lexx 1363]

You can't use the bipod in this situation, but you can still rest your arm / hands, no?

[serjames 357]

What about dropping a backpack infront and deploying on that... does that work I wonder. Would help those downhill situations

[paramed14 14]

There seems to be alot of information here, and I haven't read it all, but I suppose I'll give my two cents.

Some observations regarding the bipods...they are infernally annoying most of the time and occasionally quite useful in the GPMG role. I am by habit, a sniper, and my current experience in ARMA with bipods is disappointing. When I spy from elevation (from whence a sniper should) a target and I deploy my bipod, I am all of a sudden staring at the ground. I then have to reaquire the target and often do not have enough elevation to do so. If I can, the sight picture is blurry. In my own experience with legitimate long arms, there are a multitudes of remedies for this and is seldom a real concern as found in the "simulation". It would be a splendid improvement should the bipods be adjustable and pivot around the barrel as to eliminate the canted cross hairs.

BiStudios emphasis on weapon sway is quite exaggerated.

Also, with bipods deployed, the grass seems to be unmanageable, and handicaps the marksman. When I trample down the grass at my position (putting myself at risk) it quickly comes up again in under a minute, obscuring my sight picture. I try shooting from a crest, but this makes my very vulnerable and depending on the position, the sight is too high or too low.

[mjolnir66 48]

There seems to be alot of information here, and I haven't read it all, but I suppose I'll give my two cents.

Some observations regarding the bipods...they are infernally annoying most of the time and occasionally quite useful in the GPMG role. I am by habit, a sniper, and my current experience in ARMA with bipods is disappointing. When I spy from elevation (from whence a sniper should) a target and I deploy my bipod, I am all of a sudden staring at the ground. I then have to reaquire the target and often do not have enough elevation to do so. If I can, the sight picture is blurry. In my own experience with legitimate long arms, there are a multitudes of remedies for this and is seldom a real concern as found in the "simulation". It would be a splendid improvement should the bipods be adjustable and pivot around the barrel as to eliminate the canted cross hairs.

BiStudios emphasis on weapon sway is quite exaggerated.

Also, with bipods deployed, the grass seems to be unmanageable, and handicaps the marksman. When I trample down the grass at my position (putting myself at risk) it quickly comes up again in under a minute, obscuring my sight picture. I try shooting from a crest, but this makes my very vulnerable and depending on the position, the sight is too high or too low.

You'll actually find that actual snipers prefer lower elevations for 2 reasons. People automatically assume snipers are on the high ground, and backdrops.

[paramed14 14]

They may "prefer" lower elevations, but that is only because it makes for easy math. Low angle engagements are also very common.

Backdrops are eliminated if you stay off of a crest. Its an easy and common sense thing to do.

People automatically assume a sniper is in the hills because its militarily imperative to seek the high ground. It is easy to defend as well as render the most effective and deliberate fire. How can a sharpshooter provide adequate over watch without a position from which to do so? How else can a sniper shoot at the distances they're best suited without some altitude?

Snipers prefer higher ground as a mere 100m increase in height gives you a 30km horizon, and full scope of the battlefield from which to report. Also, while they cannot reach out and touch something at those extreme distances, they won't be surprised when something approaches. At moderate, operational distances, hill faces and top floors of high rises are preferred. Being positioned among a platoon, to take difficult shots or perform counter sniper or IED clearing work doesn't require a sniper at all.

I would also like to see a harris tripod being used from a seated position as that is one of my favorites.

Another gripe, is that my sight picture never returns to see where I hit. In real life, a properly positioned shooter, with the rifle seated, should return to shooting position on its own. Not exactly, but not to the irregular fashion in the current ARMA 3.

[machineabuse 11]

You'll actually find that actual snipers prefer lower elevations for 2 reasons. People automatically assume snipers are on the high ground, and backdrops.

More accurately (no pun intended) a marksman prefers to be level with the target to take elevation out of the equation.

So far I find that weapon deployment works great except when it doesn't, which sadly is pretty often. There are a lot of instances where I thought it would be reasonable to deploy on a rock or a on an irregular bit of wall and either not being able to do it or the game taking control and realigning my player avatar against my will.

Deployment is also lacking any regard to fieldcraft and is overly biased towards both 1. having a bipod and 2. horizontal surfaces. Where in reality it would be very reasonable to exploit the stability of a railing or a tree to get a better shot. Yes yes I know that weapon resting gives a passive benefit but the whole reason we have bipods is that way back when some enterprising fellow stuck his musket through some branches and found it to be a good idea.

That said, I am finding the new mechanics to be a great step in the right direction :cool: while rough around the edges in places I think between the seamless transition into resting to the snap into weapon deployment the execution of the mechanic feels pretty solid. I just think that deployment should be a little more versatile than it currently is.

[twisted 128]

There are a lot of instances where I thought it would be reasonable to deploy on a rock or a on an irregular bit of wall and either not being able to do it or the game taking control and realigning my player avatar against my will.

Deployment is also lacking any regard to fieldcraft and is overly biased towards both 1. having a bipod and 2. horizontal surfaces. Where in reality it would be very reasonable to exploit the stability of a railing or a tree to get a better shot. Yes yes I know that weapon resting gives a passive benefit but the whole reason we have bipods is that way back when some enterprising fellow stuck his musket through some branches and found it to be a good idea........ I just think that deployment should be a little more versatile than it currently is.

i agree.

Good start by BIS but deploying needs to be refined. especially to allow a bit more flexibility in rotation angles that are not perfectly flush with the wall the bipod is on (the angle of the bipod on the wall (which doesnt have to be parrallel) should mostly determine how far it can rotate not the angle of the wall. although you obviously cant ghost through the wall which is good.].

Low walls need loving.

and there are rocks that look like they should be deployable on-able. but they aint.

ammocrates? cannot deploy on those. should be able to.

ditto for car bonnets for some reason.

[faire 10]

Weapons can tilt on bipods in RL, right?

[h - 169]

It would really cool to be able to for example shift your position while deployed to refine your positioning (very slow dragging?, press a movement key long enough and bipod undeploys like it does currently).

I know it's kinda possible now but it's really annoying when you aim at something, deploy and the aim goes to somewhere else and you have to search for the target again only to find out you can't aim that high from that terrain gradient and then try to shift position.

Of course the terrain resolution is a tad problematic with this..

The idea of the feature is great, and it does work quite nicely on many occations but some refining is due.

Also some building windows get really annoying to deploy to as the windows really seems to like you to be in either corner of the window which limit your firing arc (sorry, no specific buildings in mind, they all seem to have this "problem")..

[martin_lee 33]

What about dropping a backpack infront and deploying on that... does that work I wonder. Would help those downhill situations

Yes it does, I was playing the Adapt campaign mission where we are raiding an AAF outpost. In the beginning

we need to shoot two guards on the towers.

I deployed my bipod, couldn't elevate enough, so I tried dropping my bag in front, adjusted my position a bit, and viola :)

I also noticed that whilst prone, pointing the gun too high and you will not be resting any more. A backpack in front will help as well.

Very nice touch actually. Good to see they've considered this.

That being said, most bipods have adjustable legs that should allow one to aim up hill. Not too sure how that can be easily implimented, though :(

Weapons can tilt on bipods in RL, right?

Yes indeed. The pivot had a slight capability of tilting. On top of that, the length of each legs could be individually adjusted. Actualy, it is quite important for a gun to be horizontal. The bullet drops vertically due to gravity, and how we zero and adjust the scope do require the gun to be horizontal.

Edited May 16, 2015 by martin_lee

[machineabuse 11]

It would really cool to be able to for example shift your position while deployed to refine your positioning (very slow dragging?, press a movement key long enough and bipod undeploys like it does currently).

I know it's kinda possible now but it's really annoying when you aim at something, deploy and the aim goes to somewhere else and you have to search for the target again only to find out you can't aim that high from that terrain gradient and then try to shift position.

Of course the terrain resolution is a tad problematic with this..

The idea of the feature is great, and it does work quite nicely on many occations but some refining is due.

Also some building windows get really annoying to deploy to as the windows really seems to like you to be in either corner of the window which limit your firing arc (sorry, no specific buildings in mind, they all seem to have this "problem")..

I think this is a pretty neat idea and a good compromise. Being able to push the position around/rotate it would alleviate quite a few issues with unexpected deployment results.

Still would like to see vertical surface/corner deployment sans/bipods with a slight penalty to steadiness and recoil reduction. Urban/woodland fights would benefit from it, also it would add forgiveness to hastily deploying the weapon in a less than ideal position.

[St. Jimmy 272]

Little bug or maybe even an exploit with weapon deployment:

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=24476

[Variable 322]

The resting and deployment system is a great addition to the game. The game feels more right now and thanks to it, gameplay was improved. After extensively playing with resting and deployment I reached the following conclusions:

1. Resting detection is great.

2. Resting should be more pronounced. you can still see the weapon swaying when rested. It should not sway against the resting surface! It doesn't make sense that when I rest the weapon against a wall on its left, it will sway to the left. The resting feature should emphasis the force the soldier is applying against the surface, by canceling sway towards the rested surface. Sway to the other direction should be allowed, allowing the play to re-stick the weapon to the resting surface.

3. And now for the most important point - you should not be able to deploy a weapon without bipods! come on BIS, I bet you had internal arguments about that. That was a wrong design decision because of the following reasons:

• a. It does not simulate anything logical from real life.
  
• b. It takes away from the nice resting feature and makes it redundant.
  
• c. It leads the player to keep on looking for a deployment position while he should be be pleased just with resting his weapon (note, he DOESN'T have a bipod).
  
• d. When you do have a bipod, psychologically, deploying it doesn't feel unique, since - "heck, I can do that even without a bipod", regardless of the sway reduction benefit.
  

BIS, please reconsider this bad symbiosis between two features that should remain unique.

[Alwarren 2767]

3. And now for the most important point - you should not be able to deploy a weapon without bipods! come on BIS, I bet you had internal arguments about that. That was a wrong design decision because of the following reasons:

I agree, the difference between deployment and resting without an actual bipod is something I do not understand. Yes, deployment limits your angle, but what real-life action should be associated with it? Suppose you hold a weapon in your hands, what physical actions do you perform when resting and when deploying? Deployment should be reserved for weapons that have something to deploy with, a.k.a. a bipod.

[machineabuse 11]

I will respectfully disagree with Alwarren and Variable.

Deployment as it is implemented is extremely primitive. Let's not forget here that the purpose a bipod is meant to serve is primarily to present a stable firing platform on a flat surface. When we observe the practical application of "deploying" a weapon in the real world what we actually want to achieve is leveraging the environment to provide for a stable, static-as-possible firing platform.

A bipod is only ONE interface that is used to achieve that of many. For this reason you often see machinegunners and marksman in the real world not deploying the bipod legs on their weapons because in actual fact a direct interface with the environment is occasionally more favorable (ledges, low walls, window sills may provide a more mechanically advantageous body position/offer more cover/etc.).

That said a bipod should offer greater advantage on flat ground and the major advantage a bipod should have but doesn't in ArmA 3 is tilt compensation for deployment on slanted terrain.

Sometimes a gunner's gotta do what a gunner's gotta do y'know.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Machineabuse

[Alwarren 2767]

I will respectfully disagree with Alwarren and Variable.

I am not sure where I actually said anything that you would disagree with. I didn't say anything about the deployment feature in general, only that I do not understand what the difference between deployment and resting in the context of no bipod is supposed to mean. I.e., as I said, what physical action would represent bipod-less deployment in reality vs. resting, since I don't see anything that would restrict your movement/angle unless a fixed point pivot like a bipod is involved.

[machineabuse 11]

Then I only disagree with Variable's sentiment that we should only be able to deploy with bipods :) I agree that the differentiation should be better.

IMO I consider weapon resting as stability from your body being in contact with surroundings while deployment as stability from placing the weapon in contact with the environment.

[Variable 322]

That's not how the distinction works since both resting and deployment work on weapon contact, not body. Seriously, it's just weird, wrong, confusing and a bad bad design decision.

[Alwarren 2767]

Then I only disagree with Variable's sentiment that we should only be able to deploy with bipods :) I agree that the differentiation should be better.

So we disagree after all.

IMO I consider weapon resting as stability from your body being in contact with surroundings while deployment as stability from placing the weapon in contact with the environment.

That is most certainly not how it works, because if you deploy the weapon on e.g. a window sill the motion looks more like resting your hand on the window sill and not the weapon. Besides, this distinction is artificial. You rest your weapon by resting the weapon or the hands that hold them on a surface. There is no magic recoil-absorbing factor involved, nor is there anything that would limit your angle. There is nothing that would explain the difference, and being able to deploy a weapon without a bipod still doesn't make any sense at all.