Arma 3 Server monetization

[Jackal326 1181]

I'm pissed off that the OPTION is there for server hosters to legitimately make $$$ now, whereas it's not there for people who spend time making content....

...yet. Though if reading between the lines of this Original post (ignore the widespread arguments that soon ensued in fact, ignore everything after the quotes from Marek Spanel himself in the first post), the possibility for you to earn something back is soon coming (maybe).

[das attorney 858]

I'd just like to say thanks to Mondkalb for being the first person to respond to my question.

It would be very interesting to see how this effects the other content makers out there and how their approach has been affected by this.

Without their feedback, the opinions on how this will effect the community is just speculation.

I have been working on an admin addon tool, this is now on hold and if i do continue to work on it and release it, it will have a EULA that states something on the lines of non commercial, Donation only servers

I'm not a big content maker as far is addons is concerned and most of the stuff I do is based around servers, but hey its still content and that is my stance as of right now

Hi Terox,

Okay, to answer your question I've been working on a multiplayer game mode.

It was supposed to be released for manw but I didn't want to release it in the state it was in.

I'm pretty pleased with it now (although there is still some work to do). Doing some testing with Bad Benson recently and he has been helping with some locality probs and also general advice.

It's more open than something like domination, but not as meandering as something like Dayz, and I wanted to make the antagonists the AI (although players can fight if they want to). However, they will find it's not a murder simulator and it benefits them to co-operate and work together.

Here is a little video of the furniture system and dynamic destruction. Every structure has furniture now and you can blow it all up. Bear in mind, it's just one small feature of all the shit that I've coded into this mod; there's all sorts of other cool shit that I haven't got time & inclination to go into right now, but it's a pretty massive undertaking (for me at least). All together, it should make for a cool game mode (if I release it):

Anyway, now you have a bit of background, let me tell you some of my concerns re: server monetisation.

First, I'm certainly not doing anything to release it until BI put their cards on the table.

As you know, scripts and functions (plus even the concepts of missions/systems) are the easiest to rip -off and most difficult to prove in an ip sense.

I'm a bit of a hippy/communist and liked the old system where no-one was supposed to make money off Arma. I understand you have bad apples who have historically abused this, but I saw them as par-for-the-course.

Now with the advent of $$$ for servers, It's really putting me off releasing anything. Guaranteed, scripts/bits of code and so on will be "borrowed" and someone will make money off it.

Either everyone should have way to make money or no-one should imo.

BI have come out with a flaky system (no deterrent or way of enforcement = no confidence).

I hear what they're saying but it doesn't add up and I'm getting alarm bells in my head. Normally, I try to see the best in people & situations, but I detect a lot of maneuvering and incomplete information which makes me wary.

People like a3l team literally piss on mod-makers and laugh at them, and I don't want to be involved in any scene that tolerates (or even looks like it tolerates) that kind of behaviour period.

So ultimately, I see this as a really bad idea (please see my prev posts for various outpourings of shit about this monetisation - I don't want to repeat them as I just don't want to stay this angry all the time). I'm ready to chuck it all in the trash and walk away. I have done that with other things in my life as I know myself and I know that I can't sit here putting food on someone else's table if I cannot put food on mine. Anyway, that is not for here but just transitional stuff in my life I felt the need to mention as I dwell on it at this moment and felt it relevant.

I don't think that is all my thoughts on this matter and I'm sure I could encapsulate them in a better way, but I wanted to get them out while they're fresh.

Thanks, DA

[Jackal326 1181]

Here is a little video of the furniture system and dynamic destruction. Every structure has furniture now and you can blow it all up. Bear in mind, it's just one small feature of all the shit that I've coded into this mod; there's all sorts of other cool shit that I haven't got time & inclination to go into right now, but it's a pretty massive undertaking (for me at least). All together, it should make for a cool game mode (if I release it):

Nice video, shame BI couldn't have done this via proxies and such to begin with rather than every house looking like the occupants moved out last week...Maybe the aliens (ArmA3's original adversaries) abducted them all in one fell swoop and took all their furniture too so they wouldn't get homesick?

I'm a bit of a hippy/communist and liked the old system where no-one was supposed to make money off Arma. I understand you have bad apples who have historically abused this, but I saw them as par-for-the-course.

I couldn't agree more. However, I think BI realised their original EULA was crap and this was their only real course of action as far as being able to do anything about it (as they see it anyway). I'm not a legal expert, but if you release something under one EULA, unless you include "subject to change" or whatever can you then alter an existing EULA that covers things already released?

[das attorney 858]

I couldn't agree more. However, I think BI realised their original EULA was crap and this was their only real course of action as far as being able to do anything about it (as they see it anyway). I'm not a legal expert, but if you release something under one EULA, unless you include "subject to change" or whatever can you then alter an existing EULA that covers things already released?

That's a really good question but I really don't know mate. I wouold guess the original licence would stand but someone please correct me if I'm wrong (which I most likely am) - I love all the tinkering around in the engine and don't really know a lot about legal side of things - which is actually another reason why I'm getting cold feet about this $$$ system.

I really hate what money does to things and playing this game is an escape from the day to day real life bullshit of $$$ and the acquisition of wealth that our society seems to covet.

So if money then comes into my escape from reality, then I'm inclined to find another past-time that doesn't involve $,€,£,¥ or any of the rubbish that comes with it.

[mobile_medic 43]

any eula is only useful if it is enforced. Otherwise, it is meaningless....

If Bohemia thinks the current terms are are reasonable, and mindful of 3rd party content creators... Then, I want them to give me free copies of Arma, that I can then resell for a commission-free profit. A little common sense is all that is needed. They wouldn't do such a thing, but they are effectively asking 3rd party content creators to do exactly that.

[I give up 152]

Either everyone should have way to make money or no-one should imo.

I agree with this, but then let's say that the mod/addon makers are allowed to commercialize their products, who is going to buy these?

One guy or two to play SP or for having some fun with editor? I dont think so but if this the case the sales will be low.

I guess we can conclude that the commercialization of mods/addons to have some success must be intended for (and acquired by) the players that play online (MP). Then, to play online with a mod there must be at least one server running it, now who is the server owner that is going to buy someone else mod, place it in its own server forcing everyone that is trying to join his server to buy a mod from a perfect stranger? Who will be the server owner available to block his server access for nothing? This will not happen unless the server owner is also the mod owner or both have some kind of partnership.

A mod maker to expect some rate of success selling his mods will need to have a server.

Anyway, either with server monetization or mods/addons commercialization the benefit will go for same persons and these are those who run popular servers with popular game modes e.g. Life or something similar. I may be wrong, but I will not be surprised if (outside servers) microtransactions are authorized for clothes, shoes.... as it has been requested several times in some other thread by the fans of these game modes and since, at this point, they basically represent 100% of the player base, surely will not be a surprise.

[meshcarver 12]

Hi guys,

All this is splitting hairs I think.

Look, if one section of the community can make money and another can't then that's a community I am advising myself to step away from at this time in regards releasing anything I make.

Yes, that's a simplistic take on it and previously it was mentioned some don't like simplistic takes on this, but it IS what it basically comes down to, no matter how you dress it up...

As it is right now, I would need my head examining if I released all my work into this arena.

I've held my thoughts on this but am now past caring what people will think of me or say.

Sorry, forgot to mention, Badhabitz thanks very much for your reply mate. I DO do this for fun and because I feel a very strong need to, I LOVE it and the subject matter but I can't stand the idea that others will unscrupulously benefit from my hard work with no real threat of being punished and on top of that that another part of this community now has the OPTION open to them to benefit if I allowed it whilst the remainders do not have that option available to them.

And I couldn't wipe from my mind the thoughts that somewhere out there people are making cash from it either, I couldn't mate and why should I?

PS: Jackal, thanks for the heads up mate, I've just posted on that thread too, and it's fantastic to know that there's at least a possibility of modmakers and content creators being rewarded for all their collective 100,000s of hours work for this whole community soon maybe.

I see that as a huge step in the right direction of acknowledging just how much effort and sweat is involved in creating content for this great game by people who want to see it made better and more varied and thus bring in more fresh souls.

Edited February 18, 2015 by meshcarver

[dscha 147]

As a protest against Bis for allowing Server monetization i am terminating all services associated with Bec.

Good bye Bis it has been a great time.

Regards.

Nuxil

BEC = Gone.

[Richie 330]

BEC = Gone.

BEC = not gone, just modify the hosts file to stop it calling home or use your Firewall.

All Nuxil has done is hurt servers that use BEC for scheduled restarts and messages.

All this monetization bollox isn't new, some communitys sell in-game perks, some like mine do things properly, yet i wake up to find BEC broken through no fault of my own.

So nothing has changed and Nuxil's protest will fall on deaf ears, BIS don't care about enforcing EULA's, show me 1 example where they've done something and took action ?

[freesets 11]

In the end, all profit dramas in this community are developed in the shadow of those who want to be or have proclaimed themselves to be "the big names in the community". The community in where increase of "largeness of your name" is apparently measured by the amount of questions like "Are you adding variant X", "When is the release date", "Any news?" and the amount of times they can say "When it's ready". Not the first, and not the last time it's been like that. And we've seen so many of those "big names in the community" implode over their own expectations when the community calls them on their bluffs, the bluffs they kept repeating "I do this for myself, because it's fun, it's a hobby and I release whenever I please".

+ 1000000000000000000000 you resumed what i saw with my own eyes here for the last 2-3 years. :jump_clap:

the same thing that made me stop to made an account here and armaholic until now(i run into some big issue in modelling) and even now i still regret it.

For most of the last decade I've worked with various Militaries and organisations, Game studios, TV/film companies all around Europe and the US. My experience is that, while enforcing these licenses is time consuming its not as hard as you describe. It just needs to be actively managed. Which goes back to the issue of building confidence in your customer base.

it reminds me of my years at some aerospace company i used to work until i resign, yes resign. people with so MUCH experience like yours think that the world almost revolve around them and their opinions should be facts. like i said it to you in the other thread and you probably flagged my posts(probably because im not a big name like the other guy said) is that bi and the other games studios before them CAN'T shut down servers like A3L for illegal use of 3rd party content because its outside of their juristiction(place and ownership), everybody know that, but i will say it anyway because in the last 4 pages i realize that you don't ACCEPT it and that's not a bis or another modder issue, it a personal issue. now if they steal your addons, you can sue them, but your addons and the other 3rd party addons they stole ARE NOT bis responsibility, but the addon makers one.

as for me i will release some addons here and I WON'T CARE if they will play on A3L or <insert russian illegal new server name here>. why: because you cant stop the piracy practice, even if they sell your addons, every warez place sells them somehow, ads on the site(media) or server fees(a3l). in the past i seen quite the opposite, the more you fight against, the more you become a target, so i wont fight.

Edited February 18, 2015 by freesets

[dave_beastttt 135]

BEC = not gone, just modify the hosts file to stop it calling home or use your Firewall

Or just roll back to an older version of BEC like 1.498.0.0

Hi Richie btw

Edited February 18, 2015 by dave_beastttt

[rksl-rock 1301]

it reminds me of my years at some aerospace company i used to work until i resign, yes resign. people with so MUCH experience like yours think that the world almost revolve around them and their opinions should be facts.

LMAO you really do not know me at all.

...like i said it to you in the other thread and you probably flagged my posts(probably because im not a big name like the other guy said)

Your posts were flagged for flame baiting by someone else before i even got chance. I asked for irrelevant posts to be removed and the thread cleaned up. The mods gave you a warning.

... is that bi and the other games studios before them CAN'T shut down servers like A3L for illegal use of 3rd party content because its outside of their juristiction(place and ownership), everybody know that, but i will say it anyway because in the last 4 pages i realize that you don't ACCEPT it and that's not a bis or another modder issue, it a personal issue. now if they steal your addons, you can sue them, but your addons and the other 3rd party addons they stole ARE NOT bis responsibility, but the addon makers one.

No one else seems to have issues shutting down server breaking licences. Do some research. You obviously haven't bothered to do any either about me or the laws. Or even the legal precedents. So you are just spouting unfounded opinion.

My own history of enforcing my licensing is well documented on these forums and others. I have NEVER said it was BIS's responsibility to enforce MY licence, EVER!

The issue is that NO ONE has heard or seen BIS enforce their OWN EULA outside of these forums. The issue is the COMPLETE LACK OF CONFIDENCE in BIS to follow up as they PROMISE.

Stop reading your own prejudices into my words. Actually read what I've written in the context of the posts around it.

as for me i will release some addons here and I WON'T CARE if they will play on A3L or <insert russian illegal new server name here>. why: because you cant stop the piracy practice, even if they sell your addons, every warez place sells them somehow, ads on the site(media) or server fees(a3l). in the past i seen quite the opposite, the more you fight against, the more you become a target, so i wont fight.

Well if you are happy to do that, it’s your prerogative.

However, as you can see from the numerous other replies in THIS very thread I am not alone in my position. And a large number of the people that do actively create content for this community, ie addon and mission makers are concerned about someone exploiting their efforts. While this server licensing is part of a solution it is not a COMPLETE solution for us.

While players like yourself hold your own opinions about addons makers that complain at the end of the day your voice means absolutely nothing when it comes to someone else's IP. But please stop insulting and criticizing those that want to protect their work.

[freesets 11]

LMAO you really do not know me at all.

Your posts were flagged for flame baiting by someone else before i even got chance. I asked for irrelevant posts to be removed and the thread cleaned up. The mods gave you a warning.

No one else seems to have issues shutting down server breaking licences. Do some research. You obviously haven't bothered to do any either about me or the laws. Or even the legal precedents. So you are just spouting unfounded opinion.

Stop reading your own prejudices into my words. Actually read what I've written in the context of the posts around it.

Well if you are happy to do that, it’s your prerogative.

However, as you can see from the numerous other replies in THIS very thread I am not alone in my position. And a large number of the people that do actively create content for this community, ie addon and mission makers are concerned about someone exploiting their efforts. While this server licensing is part of a solution it is not a COMPLETE solution for us.

sadly you are like other people i wished i never replyed to in the past: those who think that the world revolve around them and this reply proved it even more. if i checked the post that were flagged it contains not one single piece of insult, but the one that followed from you was just harsh, like i just disrupted you from your trance and yet as the other guy who mentioned "the big names here" you tend to see yourself as a moderator and god(you even ask to clean up the posts, no user should ask that unless he is a mod). so yes my join date theory is true: you people with 10 years of activity here tend to have this sort of complex when it comes to different opinions. now let me show you how a normal person would reply to my post:

" @freesets

i know that illegal servers cant be shut down in some parts of the world that easily but bis should enforce their rules a little more. im GLAD to discuss the issue in detail on the other thread"

how does that sound to you???

in real life you change subject all the time during a conversation, yet no one punches you in the face when you do.

as for the TOPIC here, illegal servers operate all the time and players like activision and ea cant even scratch them: call of duty is full of illegal servers and yet activision with billions more than bis can't touch them. i won't post links here because all that is needed is a quick torrent search(place for illegal content) and you will find them all.

as for my take of the 3rd party issue: you people should understand the golden rule of the internet: once you post it, its NO LONGER yours. the copyright thing is an illusion to keep you warm at night and to protect you from your neighbour or a small player. ex: i read blogs for almost 10 years, and all of them have their content from a source they cite after the so called post, almost all those sources, who worked months, barely have 1000 clicks for their original story, but when 'big name blog' come and copy paste their story, working 20 minutes including drinking the coffee they get 100000 clicks in a day and ???$$$ in money from the ads. is it fair? hell no. did the freelancer guy who did the source article in the first place stop? no. why? well that i hope you can answer.

the complete solution for you and others that are so concerned about 'fun work', as the free content is, would be, as other in the past debated in the media industry, to cease to create and that is your choice, but if you cease to create for that issue that everybody suffers, then your creatin in the first place wasn't 'fun work' or hobby.

MY OPINION: game devs dont make a big deal anymore over the loss of sales on paid digital products(otherwise they would shut down every warez site), why a free addon maker me in that case(i speak of myself only) should i bother? so yes if tomorrow A3l will play my hamina ship to shoot police heli, i wont care because i know that once its out on the internet its like a rolex watch on the street with my name on it, the time it will remain there depend of the people who pass by it.

[rksl-rock 1301]

sadly you are like other people i wished i never replyed to in the past: those who think that the world revolve around them and this reply proved it even more. if i checked the post that were flagged it contains not one single piece of insult, but the one that followed from you was just harsh, like i just disrupted you from your trance and yet as the other guy who mentioned "the big names here" you tend to see yourself as a moderator and god(you even ask to clean up the posts, no user should ask that unless he is a mod). so yes my join date theory is true: you people with 10 years of activity here tend to have this sort of complex when it comes to different opinions. now let me show you how a normal person would reply to my post:

" @freesets

i know that illegal servers cant be shut down in some parts of the world that easily but bis should enforce their rules a little more. im GLAD to discuss the issue in detail on the other thread"

how does that sound to you???

in real life you change subject all the time during a conversation, yet no one punches you in the face when you do.

as for the TOPIC here, illegal servers operate all the time and players like activision and ea cant even scratch them: call of duty is full of illegal servers and yet activision with billions more than bis can't touch them. i won't post links here because all that is needed is a quick torrent search(place for illegal content) and you will find them all.

as for my take of the 3rd party issue: you people should understand the golden rule of the internet: once you post it, its NO LONGER yours. the copyright thing is an illusion to keep you warm at night and to protect you from your neighbour or a small player. ex: i read blogs for almost 10 years, and all of them have their content from a source they cite after the so called post, almost all those sources, who worked months, barely have 1000 clicks for their original story, but when 'big name blog' come and copy paste their story, working 20 minutes including drinking the coffee they get 100000 clicks in a day and ???$$$ in money from the ads. is it fair? hell no. did the freelancer guy who did the source article in the first place stop? no. why? well that i hope you can answer.

the complete solution for you and others that are so concerned about 'fun work', as the free content is, would be, as other in the past debated in the media industry, to cease to create and that is your choice, but if you cease to create for that issue that everybody suffers, then your creatin in the first place wasn't 'fun work' or hobby.

MY OPINION: game devs dont make a big deal anymore over the loss of sales on paid digital products(otherwise they would shut down every warez site), why a free addon maker me in that case(i speak of myself only) should i bother? so yes if tomorrow A3l will play my hamina ship to shoot police heli, i wont care because i know that once its out on the internet its like a rolex watch on the street with my name on it, the time it will remain there depend of the people who pass by it.

LMAO. Keep taking the pills they are helping ;)

[terox 316]

careful guys before they lock the thread. I would suspect they are waiting for just such an opportunity

Bringing it back onto track

How about this model

a) Voluntary donation only servers when donations do not grant the donator any special content or privileges

b) Private access servers requiring paid memberships, which is purely for the right to play on the server (Free trial memberships for a set period are allowed)This way the money changing hands has nothing to do with the content and everything to do with the quality of service offered

No other monetirisation systems are allowed

That way, those who state they must have some way to charge to pay for the running costs have to offer a quality of service that folks want to pay towards either as monthly paid members or totally voluntary donations

Edited February 18, 2015 by Terox

[icebreakr 3159]

Terox: what stops me from paying a fee there, getting in, snatching all the stuff they made and making my own server then with all their files or rebranded in few days time? ;) ... this is getting so retarded I cannot believe it. Again: I'll wait for things to clear up.

[terox 316]

Terox: what stops me from paying a fee there, getting in, snatching all the stuff they made and making my own server then with all their files or rebranded in few days time? ;) ... this is getting so retarded I cannot believe it. Again: I'll wait for things to clear up.

Let me try to explain

Content A made by Mod maker A is copied by Mod maker B who creates a derivative of it

Multiply that by some silly number and you end up with todays content, all publicly available, all hacked, reworked etc

To date that really hasnt been much of an issue

Look at 2 server types that have been in existence

1) donation only servers, either public or clan

2) Private clan servers, probably in some circumstances all the clan members chip in for the running costs, that's basically a membership only server

Never been an issue

Now we have servers charging for content as part of a money making system on the pretence it's to cover running costs

That in itself hasn't been the issue

The issue is that they are charging for Content that isnt really 100% of their work and this is causing issues based on historically the openess we have seen with content being made publicly available for free. We dont want to "hurt" the addon making part of the community in any way

So this is really all about content, not quality of service.

So remove the content from the argument completely

Redefine the license so that no one can benefit economically from content and content has to be made publicly available to all, espescially if it is being run on a private server

And allow only 2 options of server funding

1) Donation only

2) Private membership

Any player on server 1 has access to anything any other player on server 1 has

Any player on server 2 has access to anything any other player on server 2 has

The same content is available to server 1 as is available to server 2 because its all public domain

and the reason for that is all content is based on someone elses previous efforts

We now have, in my perfect world, all content still being made available to all in the way it has always been done and no ill feeling

Imagine if you would, that you have 2 servers, both running lets say Patrol ops (So we can move away from the typical server types that have influenced this decision)

Both the same mission or some derivative of

Server 1 is public, badly adminned and chaotic

Server 2 is private, membership only, well adminned and not chaotic

Server 2 is best case scenario for server 2

Would you pay a membership for the second server?

You aren't paying for the content, because its available on server 1

So you arent p*****g off Roy86 who made Patrol ops (Sorry to mention your name her Roy, just using your mission as an example)

Infact your probably pleasing him, because the players on server 2 are getting more enjoyment out of patrol ops than server 1

and the server owner is being rewarded simply for doing a better job at offering a better service and the content has nothing to do with it

Hope that explains what I am trying to put over here.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Terox

[.kju 3245]

Sorry to say but you dont make much sense there Terox; or at least you are painting an incomplete and "not everyone will agree with" picture.

Content A made by Mod maker A is copied by Mod maker B who creates a derivative of it

Multiply that by some silly number and you end up with todays content, all publicly available, all hacked, reworked etc

To date that really hasnt been much of an issue

Rock and others will very much disagree with your notion here.

While this has been true very much for missions, scripts and configs, in regards to models, textures, terrains the regime is very different.

In any case here is what has really happened and what the situation is:

1) There has always been shady practice in regards to 3rd party financially benefiting of other arma modders work.

Be it people selling on Turbosquid, server hosters providing content packages against their license, clans/groups/communities

requiring a fee to participate, as well as some other forms.

2) What has changed is, societies overall are changing and with DayZ mod, derivatives of it, Wasteland, Life and derivatives, popular YouTubers

the playerbase and the modding scene has shifted/broadened/expanded.

To a large degree many/most of these people do not share the long background most in the arma scene have, are not present in this forum,

or participate in other sections of the traditional arma community and its spaces.

In addition its probably fair to say that most do not share the same values and common understanding that has been established in the arma

scene to varying degree in the various sections of the very diverse community of OFP/arma.

Sidenote: The unfriendliness or worse of the arma scene to large degree, also very much present in this forum, to welcome new people,

especially with non traditional arma background/setting, didn't help either and caused more rifts and lack of understanding and cooperation.

3) Due to the large fan base some of these non traditional arma projects and groups managed to establish, the abuse with website shops to

buy ingame benefits or with using 3rd party made content regardless of licenses, permissions or decent behavior grew to larger proportions

with A3L probably being the most extreme and getting most attention.

4) [seemingly] BI largely ignored this bad practice (for good and bad reasons) for a long time - for one as it brought very considerable more

sales and income.

It is probably fair to say that without DayZ mod and everything following, there would be no A3 at all or the release would have been much of

a disaster like A1, as well as A3 not getting this long term strategy with multiple DLCs and a supposedly comprehensive expansion.

5) Based on the community outcry after A3L BI got pushed to take action. They seemingly devised a strategy on their own without involving

their community - for better or worse, aka the result may or may not have been better either way.

6) People are unhappy with the current setup in so far:

1 - So far monetization only for servers - content creators fell left out

2 - Principally against any monetization

3 - Objections to some of the rules, like "pay to access" (beyond reserved slots or at all), "3rd party content" can be used (only if agreed by the author or permitted by the license though)

4 - No effective policing assumed to be possible or to be done

5 - No effective measure against people not following the (new) rules

At the end of the day A3 has certainly more than enough (public) servers. People will look for quality if it matters to them

and some are even willing to pay for that [without much consideration about anything else].

This move by BI to change rules is to be to address the abuse.

Is the current form/ruleset the right one? Can and should it be improved? That is everyone to judge by himself.

Edited February 19, 2015 by .kju [PvPscene]

[fluttershy 2]

The terrible truth, in my eyes, is that Succesful monetising Servers have two things going for them.

It could be an amazing and nice community that really makes the gameplay feel different and gives out a good vibe towards its members, which in return makes the members appreciate the service provided so much that they don't mind to hand over some cash in order to keep it going and support the Developers of that particular Community.

The second one is Content, or rather bundled content. 98% of the time that content was not created by the developers or admins of the community but the users choose the Server or the Community for said Content. In some, now more often appearing cases, the content is not only the one created by this community itself but also other developers hard work, which then gets rebranded as the work of the group reciving the money from monetisation.

Personaly i am totaly fine with Group A and i am sure no one inside the arma community holds a grudge against the people that want to have a small or even large group of players that support there community by offering cash to the hosting party.

The only problem we are facing, as addon makers, is the community we enable to gain income beyond the point of covering server cost with our work, that might not get mentioned, or even get rebranded as there own product.

Not everyone that Joins group A or B might be actively following the BI Forums or any other place where the shameless acts of some cashgrabbers get revealed, or they might not even care (since A3L is still doing fine internal and external content piracy must be alright for some players).

With Monetisation we give Group A a little Badge of Honor for making clear that the developer of the Game they are covering is completly fine with them earning a little extra from the funds that are provided by the playersbase.

In return we also give a temporary badge of honor to thiefs and liars that enrich themselves using the work of others. Surely these Servers can be reported.... but we will see about what happens when it happens.

I would have released all my created content to the "core" that is hanging out here for years on end. Yes it might happen that some RPG Mod picks up the addon without asking and still use it on there server where they also gain cash with my work but the ammount of abusers would have been significantly less then the ammount that is out there right now.

So surely as Terox explained before, if the admin / developer team is rewarded for providing better service that is fine with me. But if the admin / developer benefits from content they stole and rebranded where the service becomes irrelevant to some extent is where the problem sits right now, at least in my eyes.

[eaglestrike999 13]

Ok so sorry if I'm wrong, someone tried to explain this to me and I didn't quite understand it so I decided to read the whole thread and throw my piece in.

You aren't paying for the content, because its available on server 1

So you arent p*****g off Roy86 who made Patrol ops (Sorry to mention your name her Roy, just using your mission as an example)

Infact your probably pleasing him, because the players on server 2 are getting more enjoyment out of patrol ops than server 1

and the server owner is being rewarded simply for doing a better job at offering a better service and the content has nothing to do with it.

I know you said content aside, but the same issue keeps arising from what I've read. Whether "Server 2" is more organised and better run than "Server 1", it is still making money off content they don't own, i.e the Patrol Ops mission.

Yes let's do this.

If I go to Crusty Crabs under the deep blue sea, steal their Crusty Crabs recipe and simply serve it at a high class diner that maybe, is less rowdy than Crusty Crabs, does that give me the right to earn money off it? Sure I'm going to the effort of providing great service, but it's still using content I don't own.

I'm fairly sure this hasn't been brought up before but also think about this. If private servers are allowed to monetize themselves, how are content creators realistically supposed to monitor those servers if they decide not to gain permission from the content creator and hide that content on the server. Players paying for the server wouldn't notice, and if it was hidden ON the server, how are content creators supposed to police that? (Just to clarify I mean look for/find them, not take action against. Also bare in mind it is a private server.)

Edited February 19, 2015 by Eaglestrike999

[Jackal326 1181]

If I go to Crusty Crabs under the deep blue sea, steal their Crusty Crabs recipe and simply serve it at a high class diner that maybe, is less rowdy than Crusty Crabs, does that give me the right to earn money off it? Sure I'm going to the effort of providing great service, but it's still using content I don't own.

That is a bad analogy, as the recipe is how to make something, not something that has already been made. But your point is made, and your Sponge Bob reference duly appreciated.

[eaglestrike999 13]

That is a bad analogy, as the recipe is how to make something, not something that has already been made. But your point is made, and your Sponge Bob reference duly appreciated.

Ok then I change my recipe for a Crusty Crabs burger :rolleyes: The point still stands though, they shouldn't be allowed to use other people's content (without permission) on a monetized server, whether it is the defining reason they are making money or not.

Asking the community to police this has so many serious flaws (look out for, not take action against), for example the Private Server scenario I brought up in my last post.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Eaglestrike999

[.kju 3245]

@ Eaglestrike999

What do you mean with "police this"? To reveal/look for abuse or to take action against it?

[eaglestrike999 13]

;2883662']@ Eaglestrike999

What do you mean with "police this"? To reveal/look for abuse or to take action against it?

To reveal/look for it, sorry I should have made that clear.

Edited original posts to clear that up.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Eaglestrike999

[.kju 3245]

Right. See the second part of #163.

That said it should be also clear that ruthless/aggressive abuser can make logging/the detection very hard.