Russia General

[Tonci87 163]

Pointing out Russian invasions only and showing other countries as poor innocent lambs is russophobic propaganda, yes.

Wow, please point out where anybody has framed a criminally acting country as poor innocent lamb. Go ahead.

[Rydygier 1317]

http://www.polskieradio.pl/5/3/Artykul/1395665,Czolgi-i-tysiace-zolnierzy-USA-na-wschodniej-flance-NATO-Wazne-slowa-amerykanskiego-generala

American soldiers remain in the Baltic States and Poland, as long as it is necessary to deter Russia and increase the presence of NATO - said Monday in Riga, US General John O'Connor.

General made this statement in Riga port, where the day delivered the biggest ever, writes agency BNS, the number of US military equipment for the Baltic States as part of Operation Resolve Atlantic. So far, the Baltic Sea has now reached about 750 helicopters, tanks and other vehicles. Only Promise Liberty ship today brought to Riga over 120 tanks and other military vehicles - BNS reported.

Latvia will go soon also about 3 thousand. soldiers of the US 3rd Infantry Division. Will practice with the soldiers of the Baltic States for about three months.

[mistyronin 1181]

I just said the real figures, ~20 million repressed does not mean that all of them were shot, in these ~20 million are included and deported and received punishment for minor offenses etc.

Fair enough. But more than half of the victims of the Third Reich concentration camps were due to hunger, accidents due to exhaustion, etc.

So let me rephrase your statement: "Summarize: summarily executed: Stalin - 7-8, Hitler 2-3 ( total Stalin's ~20 million deads, total Hitler's deads ~10 million )

As a result of the collectivization of the most a workable healthy and young peasants fled to the city.

You are partially right, young peasants fled to the city to work with under-wages, while their elder died of starvation, situation that wouldn't improve until after the fall of the Soviet Union. Basically Stalin provoked that all the working class was poorer than before ( so it would be easier to control them, like the Czars did before ).

Lend Lease - yes, Britain and the USA for the gold selling raw materials and equipment to the Soviet Union

You were already answered before, UK provided free resources and the USA borrowed tons of equipment without interests. BTW part of the gold the USSR used to loan them, was stolen from the Spanish Republic during the Spanish Civil War.

Stalin's scorched earth - tell me more about what Stalin's scorched earth are you talking about

A good article on the subject:

( By Walter N. Sanning ) Soviet Scorched-Earth Warfare: Facts And Consequences

Within days after hostilities began, the Kremlin's Central Committee issued orders to the effect that only scorched earth be left to the enemy. Everything of value was ordered to be destroyed, regardless of the needs of the civilian population left behind.

It is an indisputable fact that the systematic Soviet dismantling of factories and their shipment to the Urals, the carefully planned removal and destruction of raw materials stocks and food supplies, and the large-scale deportation of civilians were started long before 22 June 1941. Indeed, evidence indicated that these efforts were greatly intensified ten to fourteen days prior to that date.

This fact demolishes forever the charge of a German sneak attack on an unprepared, peace-loving Soviet Union.

The bibliographic sources for that article are in the bottom.

Yes, in 90 years the situation was catastrophic

I said that Russia was one of the poorest economies of the planet after the fall of the USSR not now.

but with the advent of Putin, the situation began to improve.

That's the good trick Putin propaganda sold.

That Putin was president when the situation improved was incidental. Russia's economy improved because of all the foreign investments.

Why did Europe, US and China invested so much to improve Russian situation? Because they rather had a modern and rich Russia where to sell their products, plain and simple.

But as we have seen all that can change fast, when tyrants like Putin unleash their medieval imperialistic aspirations, now most of the Western and Asiatic investments have been reduced a lot, and Russia is weak, really weak.

The funnier fact is that if instead of an authoritarian Putin, Russia had had a proper democratic leader, the Russian citizens would be richer and had more possibilities. Instead of an oligarch like Putin who is stealing as much as he can to feed his accounts in Switzerland.

Article from 2007 already:

( The Guardian ) Putin, the Kremlin power struggle and the $40bn fortune

An unprecedented battle is taking place inside the Kremlin in advance of Vladimir Putin's departure from office, the Guardian has learned, with claims that the president presides over a secret multibillion-dollar fortune.

Rival clans inside the Kremlin are embroiled in a struggle for the control of assets as Putin prepares to transfer power to his hand-picked successor, Dmitry Medvedev, in May, well-placed political observers and other sources have revealed.

At stake are billions of dollars in assets belonging to Russian state-run corporations. Additionally, details of Putin's own personal fortune, reportedly hidden in Switzerland and Liechtenstein, are being discussed for the first time.

Edited March 10, 2015 by MistyRonin

[oxmox 73]

Fair enough. But more than half of the victims of the Third Reich concentration camps were due to hunger, accidents due to exhaustion, etc.

A good article on the subject:

( By Walter N. Sanning ) Soviet Scorched-Earth Warfare: Facts And Consequences

Watch out about the background of the website you link:

The Institute for Historical Review (IHR), founded in 1978, is an organization primarily devoted to publishing and promoting books and essays that deny established facts concerning the Nazi genocide of Jews.

--> It is considered by many scholars as the world's leading Holocaust denial organization.

Edited March 10, 2015 by oxmox

[Sub-Human 10]

A memorial for Iosif Stalin is to be installed:

In Tver' Oblast a memorial house will be opened for Iosif Stalin... in the village of Horoshevo, where, in August of 1943, Stalin stopped during his trip to the front. It will be opened in time for the 70th anniversary of the victory in the Great Patriotic War.

According to the project of the memorial house, much of the attention will be accredited to Stalin's persona as a "military commander, government contributor, leader of a country, politician and organizer". The dictator will be shown as a leader, whose actions "for decades to come set the fate of the post-war world"... Among others, themes like "10 Stalin hits", "Stalin's contribution to the Victory", "Stalin's role in evacuation of the industry", "Stalin as a symbol of Soviet success and victories" will be present.

http://grani.ru/Society/History/m.238927.html

[Tonci87 163]

That is pretty much the same as if someone would open a Hitler memorial in Germany....

[astral4eg 10]

That is pretty much the same as if someone would open a Hitler memorial in Germany....

Strongly not the same

[Tonci87 163]

Strongly not the same

Please explain why. The only difference I see is that one of them survived the war as a winner.

[astral4eg 10]

Please explain why. The only difference I see is that one of them survived the war as a winner.

- Hitler started World War II not Stalin

- Capturing half of Europe without meeting high resistance, Hitler invaded the Soviet Union

- Hitler murdered people on an ethnic basis, Stalin's for crimes (including innocent people were)

- Stalin liberated Hitler seized the country (now called "Stalin had occupied these countries, forgetting that at that time were strong communist ideas...)

It just so happened that the way to Berlin was through half of Europe

And if Stalin was worse than Hitler, why Britain and the USA were with him in alliance?

[Tonci87 163]

- Hitler started World War II not Stalin

- Capturing half of Europe without meeting high resistance, Hitler invaded the Soviet Union

- Hitler murdered people on an ethnic basis, Stalin's for crimes (including innocent people were)

- Stalin liberated Hitler seized the country (now called "Stalin had occupied these countries, forgetting that at that time were strong communist ideas...)

It just so happened that the way to Berlin was through half of Europe

And if Stalin was worse than Hitler, why Britain and the USA were with him in alliance?

OK, lets look at that.

- Hitler started World War II not Stalin

False! Actually they both started it together, Poland wasn´t only invaded by the Germans.

- Capturing half of Europe without meeting high resistance, Hitler invaded the Soviet Union

True, Hitler invaded the Soviet union, although I´m not sure how that makes him any better than Stalin.

- Hitler murdered people on an ethnic basis, Stalin's for crimes (including innocent people were)

False! There have been deportations and killings of other ethnic groups/nationalities in the Soviet union. Just ask the Crimean Tatars, or the Polish.

- Stalin liberated Hitler seized the country (now called "Stalin had occupied these countries, forgetting that at that time were strong communist ideas...)

It just so happened that the way to Berlin was through half of Europe

Stalin didn´t liberate anything, he conquered. If he liberated a country he would have pulled out his troops after the war and allowed independent governments, he also wouldn´t have striped the conquered lands of any valuable things.

Nope, still don´t see how Stalin is any better than Hitler, especially if you consider that he killed waaay more people than Hitler did. I would even say that Stalin was the one who was more insane. Hitler killed with a focused goal, in his insane mind he knew why he was killing people. Stalin often killed out of pure paranoia and basically everyone across the board. Stalin also had zero regard for Russian lives, they were all expendable to him.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Tonci87

[astral4eg 10]

( total Stalin's ~20 million deads, total Hitler's deads ~10 million )

you understand that 20 million of the repressed not equal 20 million dead?

You were already answered before, UK provided free resources and the USA borrowed tons of equipment without interests. BTW part of the gold the USSR used to loan them, was stolen from the Spanish Republic during the Spanish Civil War.

Yeah. Russia has fully repaid debts under Lend-Lease only in 2006

I said that Russia was one of the poorest economies of the planet after the fall of the USSR not now.

Of course, the industry is destroyed, banditry, inter-ethnic conflicts, poverty in general complete anarchy.

Why did Europe, US and China invested so much to improve Russian situation? Because they rather had a modern and rich Russia where to sell their products, plain and simple.

But as we have seen all that can change fast, when tyrants like Putin unleash their medieval imperialistic aspirations, now most of the Western and Asiatic investments have been reduced a lot, and Russia is weak, really weak.

not agree.

as Stalin said: If the opponents have criticized - it means we do everything correctly. :)

Of course West do not need a strong Russia, it is needed as a raw material appendage.

---------- Post added at 18:35 ---------- Previous post was at 18:31 ----------

So take your Putinesque propaganda and retrofit it rectumwards.

What a angry Englishman :)

[Tonci87 163]

OK, lets look at that.

False! Actually they both started it together, Poland wasn´t only invaded by the Germans.

True, Hitler invaded the Soviet union, although I´m not sure how that makes him any better than Stalin.

False! There have been deportations and killings of other ethnic groups/nationalities in the Soviet union. Just ask the Crimean Tatars, or the Polish.

Stalin didn´t liberate anything, he conquered. If he liberated a country he would have pulled out his troops after the war and allowed independent governments, he also wouldn´t have striped the conquered lands of any valuable things.

Nope, still don´t see how Stalin is any better than Hitler, especially if you consider that he killed waaay more people than Hitler did. I would even say that Stalin was the one who was more insane. Hitler killed with a focused goal, in his insane mind he knew why he was killing people. Stalin often killed out of pure paranoia and basically everyone across the board. Stalin also had zero regard for Russian lives, they were all expendable to him.

And this is exactly what I mean, you call him out on his false claims and he doesn´t even respond becaause they don´t fit his prefered view on the world.

as Stalin said: If the opponents have criticized - it means we do everything correctly.

Certainly seems to be a fan of that Stalin guy....

[vilas 477]

- Hitler started World War II not Stalin

- Capturing half of Europe without meeting high resistance, Hitler invaded the Soviet Union

- Hitler murdered people on an ethnic basis, Stalin's for crimes (including innocent people were)

- Stalin liberated Hitler seized the country (now called "Stalin had occupied these countries, forgetting that at that time were strong communist ideas...)

It just so happened that the way to Berlin was through half of Europe

And if Stalin was worse than Hitler, why Britain and the USA were with him in alliance?

1) bullshit - Hitler attacked Poland 1st sept 1939, Stalin attacked Poland 17th (2 weeks later)

2) Stalin murdered lots of people on ethnic basis, Tatars, Ukrainians, Poles,

3) Stalin left terror when Hitler was defeated, in years like 1944-1956 lots of Poles , Czechs etc. were murdered, tortured, inprisoned, property was confiscated

[ProfTournesol 956]

1) bullshit - Hitler attacked Poland 1st sept 1939, Stalin attacked Poland 17th (2 weeks later)

2) Stalin murdered lots of people on ethnic basis, Tatars, Ukrainians, Poles,

3) Stalin left terror when Hitler was defeated, in years like 1944-1956 lots of Poles , Czechs etc. were murdered, tortured, inprisoned, property was confiscated

Indeed. Amazing amnesia...

[Tonci87 163]

And it is important to note that before Germany invaded Poland Hitler and Stalin had an agreement how they would divide the Baltikum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact#The_secret_protocol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ribbentrop-Molotov.svg

German and Soviet forces even had a joint military parade in Brest after Poland was fully conquered.

German and Soviet soldiers together under a Portrait of Stalin

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9b/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-121-0011-20%2C_Polen%2C_deutsch-sowjetische_Siegesparade.jpg

[Colossus 2]

Of course West do not need a strong Russia, it is needed as a raw material appendage.

What Russia needs to do is to cool its aggressive foreign policies which has ever so slightly lead to physical annexing of foreign soil - claimed or not, it has been foreign soil in the post-Soviet era, if not within the late-Soviet era SSR/CP administration borders. I don't mind a 'strong Russia', as you say, but rather as a economically strong and stable entity with growing living standards (like PRC), rather than some pseudo American jingoism.

[sudayev 27]

2) Stalin murdered lots of people on ethnic basis, Tatars, Ukrainians, Poles,

and Balts as well.

Many of them landed in gulags like recently "rebranded" Perm-36. It's very uncomfortable for the regime to have all those Ukrainians and Balts as victims of gulag, so the decision of changing the museum expositions into "guard subject". Just a part of the revisionist whitewash.

Wonder what's next... rehabilitation of NKVD torturers from the Stalinism era, since they recently named a VDV unit after the mastermind of mass terror Feliks Dzierzyński - everything is possible. Russia needs new-old "heroes" and morale boost since everyone around is a fascist/neonazi waiting to jump on.

A slice of gulag reality. Pictures from the book “Drawings from the GULAG†by Danzig Baldaev. Depictions of the Soviet genocide.

http://www.cvltnation.com/brutal-drawings-from-the-gulag/

Young women that refused to have sex with Gulag butchers were thrown to ant hills or tied to trees “for ants and mosquitoesâ€. To let ants eat the victim from the inside, sometimes a pipe made of birch bark or hollow stem was inserted into vagina and legs tied spread...

Edited March 11, 2015 by Sudayev

[vilas 477]

similar stories are being told by remaining alive victims of Stalin era terror in Poland, also tortures similar to Gestapo tortures, people were tortured cause in 50's everyone who was not praising Stalin and USSR was called US-spy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Public_Security_(Poland)

http://www.doomedsoldiers.com/torture-methods-of-ub.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_repressions_of_Polish_citizens_%281939%E2%80%9346%29

unless links work in Russia ;) maybe they do not know it cause their internet is cenzored ? i know for sure that some websites do not work in Russia, so they have to use proxy servers to enter those websites

-----------

edit:

Russia rejects treaty on conventional forces on European continent , so called "cfe" from 1990

Edited March 11, 2015 by vilas

[orcinus 121]

What a angry Englishman :)

Who said I was English?

As for angry, can't you tell the difference between anger and contempt?

Faugh, I'm done with feeding this braindead troll.

[Tonci87 163]

Wonder what's next... rehabilitation of NKVD torturers from the Stalinism era, since they recently named a VDV unit after the mastermind of mass terror Feliks Dzierzyński - everything is possible.

And that can be compared to naming a German Bundeswehr unit after Himmler

[krycek 349]

Guys don't bother with astral4eg,he's trolling and he was temp banned a few times already.Even if he would actually believe the bullshit he writes here and his adoration for papa Stalin that guy's moral compass is so fucked up he wouldn't be able to tell North from South.That's like saying Hitler wasn't perfect and had his bad points but in general he was a cool guy.:annoy:

[astral4eg 10]

omg, I see that degree inadequacy rolls over...

[sudayev 27]

and worse

And that can be compared to naming a German Bundeswehr unit after Himmler

Imagine this in Germany. Dachau camp. No more holocaust, jewry and martyrdom. Because how long you will be blaming the most richest and influential nation of Europe? Instead - hard working conditions and misery of the SS-Totenkopf guards. Sweet.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?185513-Russia-General&p=2895748&viewfull=1#post2895748

[vilas 477]

Guys don't bother with astral4eg,he's trolling and he was temp banned a few times already.Even if he would actually believe the bullshit he writes here and his adoration for papa Stalin that guy's moral compass is so fucked up he wouldn't be able to tell North from South.That's like saying Hitler wasn't perfect and had his bad points but in general he was a cool guy.:annoy:

i am afraid it is trolling , they do think like that, now you see - what we Poles know for decades, for you abroad in the west it was just "unexplained rusophobia of eastern europeans"

nope, many of them think like guys here who know alternative version of history and think of themselves as people who are in danger of whole world that is aiming at them while they were always only freedom makers

level of self criticism in USA after Vietnam, Iraq is present,

level of self criticism in Germany after WW2 is very very high,

level of self blame among some colonial countries (which had colonies) also exists,

level of self criticism in Russia seems to be 0%, level of upside down rewriting history you can observe all time on this forum, so it is not trolling, trolls do thigs for fun, trolls do things they often don't believe just to joke,

Russians are not joking, they do believe USSR was innocent and all minor nations always were attacking poor Russian Empire, poor USSR, now want to attack poor Russia,

i do not know if it is social engineering in their media, subliminal stuff in their media, but i know someone from my family who lives in Russia and although this person lives far away from here, in nothern part of Russia, this person deeply believes that "we must watch out, cause every day Bandera nazis may come and slaughter us if we not stop them" etc. phobias,

some of them maybe even believe that they should attack others "to prevent being attacked" ,

if we have level of nationalism and xenophobia in our countries like 5-10% of society, they may have it in many dozens of voters,

they really do believe in other version of history and they are proves-proof , they cannot accept real history of WW2 and surrounding decades, they simply do not accept , they see things "black and white", themselves as only freedom fighters, and what we seen on this topic - they seen slaves (forced labour) as nazi-cooperators (as some people in the west seen "Polish death camps" because they were located on territory of occupied Poland, this is the same, Russians seeing others as nazis, calling other fascists, while wikipedia says what is fascism and they are closer to definition of fascism than others are )

first step is to look at own history with some level of criticism - they cant

[oxmox 73]

Hello, this is Uncle Sam calling......

Exclusive: U.S. asks Vietnam to stop helping Russian bomber flights

(Reuters) - The United States has asked Vietnam to stop letting Russia use a former U.S. base to refuel nuclear-capable bombers engaged in shows of strength over the Asia-Pacific region, exposing strains in Washington's steadily warming relations with Hanoi.

It is the first time that U.S. officials have confirmed the role of Cam Ranh Bay, a natural deep-water harbor, in Russian bomber plane activity that has increased globally.

Vietnam's willingness to allow Russia to use Cam Ranh Bay reflects Hanoi's complex position in a geopolitical tug-of-war that frequently pits China and Russia on one side and the United States, Japan and much of Southeast Asia on the other.

Washington is keen to secure greater access itself to Cam Ranh Bay as part of its strategic "pivot" to Asia to counter China's growing strength in the region. U.S. ships have visited for repairs in recent years.

Cam Ranh Bay is now host to three submarines bought by Vietnam's navy from Russia to counter Chinese expansion in the South China Sea, with two more expected by early next year.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/11/us-usa-vietnam-russia-exclusive-idUSKBN0M71NA20150311

--> Took them forever for a joint Agent-Orange cleanup ($32 million peanuts project) in 2011 to clean the environment damage leftover from their chemical warfare. The contamination with dioxin, which has been linked to cancer and birth defects. Vietnam's Red Cross estimates up to 3 million Vietnamese have suffered health-related problems from Agent Orange exposure.

Requesting help for their own geopolitical interests is quickly......

Edited March 11, 2015 by oxmox